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Madden Gripes!

Well, i rushed out to my local Wal Mart to pick up Madden 08 and this game is pretty impressive. Gameplay is great all around, but i wanted to whine about a few Bear ratings that got real screwed up.

#1 - Kyle Orton is a 71. In and of itself, this isn't terrible, he is a third stringer...but here is where it gets bad, Chris Leak is a 72! What!? Kyle Orton was better in college, was a better prospect in the draft, Won 10 games as a rookie quarterback...but Chris Leak is rated better than him? Seriously, boost Orton to a 75.

#2 - Mark Anderson is slower than Alex Brown...seriously. Mark Anderson is only 1 overall point behind Brown (85 to 84) but his speed only registers 79 while Brown gets 83. What Chicago Bears team did EA Sports model their 08 Bears team after?

#3 - This one isn't too bad, but they made Mike Brown the starting Free Safety (luckily they granted him with 88 speed) and Arch the starting SS. The way i see the Bears depth chart sitting will be Manning starting at FS and Brown starting at SS with Arch as the backup SS and McGowan the backup FS.

Also, this isn't too worthy of it's own gripe #, but after Harris (97) and Adams (77) the next best is Dusty D at 66...seems a little low since most of the below average players usually register around 70. One thing to look forward to come the opening day roster update...Darwin Walker is rated at 85 so we will have a nice Harris with Walker/Adams combo.

//end semi-sorta-kinda rant

0 recs | Comment 30 comments

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How good are the Bears, overall?
What's are their team, offense, defense, and ST ratings?

by shawndgoldman on Aug 14, 2007 10:15 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here is a list of player ratings
http://sports.ign.com/madden08/bears.html

A lot of overating and no vastly underated players. The biggest overatings in my estimation are:

Wale 89
Leak 72
m. Brown 90

by Devin47 on Aug 14, 2007 11:22 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mike Brown is easily
a 95.  Granted, it has to be a healthy one, but a healthy Mike Brown is quite possibly the best safety in the NFC.  
"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 14, 2007 11:40 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not the same rating system....
...but ESPN Scouts, Inc. has Brown rated 76 and Arch 75. (again, NOT THE SAME MEANINGS)

(you should be able to kind of read this)

2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 76 | Key
Alert: None

Comment:
Brown is an old-fashioned football player who plays bigger and faster than his measurables suggest. He is tough, smart and somewhat underrated. He might be the league's most disciplined and technically sound safety. He does all the little things and never gets sloppy or careless. He has great instincts, and his preparation and recognition skills allow him to get great jumps on the ball. He wastes virtually no motion and closes extremely well on balls. His first-step quickness is outstanding and he excels at reading quarterbacks and anticipating plays. He can cover the deep half or attack the line of scrimmage. He has excellent range in cover 2 and can regularly reach the perimeter. He covers a lot of ground and rarely is fooled by play fakes. He can turn and run with tight ends and backs. He is not, like many cover 2 safeties, a liability in man-to-man coverage. He is an excellent tackler who consistently breaks down and wraps up. His excellent leaping ability negates his size deficit in many matchups. His size might hinder his durability, but he otherwise makes up for any physical shortcomings--and then some.

Bears - Top 10     Safety - Top 10     All Players - Top 10
RK    PLAYER    GRADE     RK    PLAYER    GRADE     RK    PLAYER    GRADE
1     Brian Urlacher     95     1     Ed Reed     95     1     Tom Brady     98
2     Olin Kreutz     80     2     Troy Polamalu     90     2     Peyton Manning     96
3     Adewale Ogunleye     80     3     Roy Williams     85     3     Brian Urlacher     95
4     Roberto Garza     79     4     Rodney Harrison     85     4     Chad Johnson     95
5     John Tait     78     5     Sean Taylor     82     5     Marvin Harrison     95
6     Lance Briggs     77     6     Brian Dawkins     81     6     Reggie Wayne     95
7     Mike Brown     76     7     Bob Sanders     79     7     Tony Gonzalez     95
8     Adam Archuleta     75     8     Tony Parrish     78     8     LaDainian Tomlinson     95
9     Alex Brown     75     9     Michael Lewis     77     9     Jonathan Ogden     95
10     Charles Tillman     75     10     Mike Brown     76     10     Ed Reed     95

by tyger1147 on Aug 14, 2007 11:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Behind Tony Parrish?
Please.  Roy Williams?  Come on.  He's way overrated.  I think Brown is on par with Polamalu.  When he doesn't have a broken foot or ripped ligaments.
"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 14, 2007 12:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In my opinion...
...injuries have to be taken into consideration when rating players. If you have to say, "When he's healthy..." then he's getting downgraded. If I'm starting a team, I may very well take one of the more "durable" guys, just because I'm not thinking, "Well, I'll have to spend some good money on a backup because he'll probably be playing a lot."

Or, in other words, what can his expected impact be for his team for the entire year. Mike Brown has missed 33 of the Bears' last 53 games. He's OBVIOUSLY had less of an overall impact for his team than others. I think it's fair to say that it will continue that way.

by tyger1147 on Aug 14, 2007 4:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In my opinion...
the rating on a VIDEO GAME should make no such distinction.
"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 14, 2007 4:05 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and...
i don't think it does, they made Randy Moss incredible even though he was basically nonexistent while in Oakland.

by lopey986 on Aug 14, 2007 5:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

While I might agree...
...it actually has to. You do know that they use "injury" or "durability" ratings, right? They have to use these so that over the course of a season, or "franchise" or whatever, Brett Favre isn't as likely to get as Donovan McNabb. That'd be ridiculous for a guy who's played in so many straight games to have the same chance of a season-ending injury as someone who seems to have them every year now.

So... taking that into consideration, and assuming they take some sort of average (weighted or not) of the various 0-99 rankings, it seems pretty obvious that a video game does take that into consideration. It's pretty simple, actually.

(Not only that, but the afore-mentioned was in reference to the scouting information.)

by tyger1147 on Aug 14, 2007 11:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gambler's fallacy:
You cannot use events from the past to predict the future.  (I'm DUE for a 7!)  Not only that, in a video game, if my star player got hurt every other game I'm pretty sure I'd throw the game against the wall.  Or just hit "reset".  I never have injuries on.  Why would I want to recreate the awful feeling in the pit of my stomach from last season as I'm playing a video game?  To hell with that.
"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 15, 2007 7:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gambler's fallacy
Statisticians use events from the past to predict the future with good accuracy all the time...even in baseball and football.

by dejackso on Aug 15, 2007 8:32 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They can predict
injuries?  Remember that time when Grossman could start and it wouldn't matter since he was hurt for two whole seasons and would most surely get hurt again?  I strongly doubt the notion that a season ending injury finds certain players.  I think each season ending injury is a new dice throw, depending on how many piles you end up on.  If you are fast and end up at more piles, maybe you're a bit more likely to get injured for the season, but not that much more.  But perhaps so.  I just hope Brown will play the entire season.  He's just as important as Urlacher and Harris, IMHO.
"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 15, 2007 8:57 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To some extent, they can...
Check out Football Prospectus or Baseball Prospectus sometime...they have predicted player injuries (specifically running backs) at a pretty darn good rate.  There are factors from the past that can be used to predict likelihood of injuries (number of carries, style of play, etc...) and thus certain players are higher injury risks than others.  People have done so time and time again.

Now, you are correct that someone injuries are flukes and that predicting the type of injury (season injury, nagging, whatever) may not be predictable...but one can separate injury proned players from other players if one knows all the factors.

Ex: Shawn Alexander last year was predicted to be injured due to his number of carries the previous season.

by dejackso on Aug 15, 2007 9:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

God, I hate when retards say stuff like that.
Of course you can't predict anything. It's very possible Matt Murton could hit a homerun in every at-bat from here on out, isn't it? Oh, you say it's "impossible"? Why is that? He obviously has the ability to hit one as he's done it before. Therefore, every time up he has the chance to hit one. And he certainly has the build and the strength. So why don't you think he will? Because of the past? Because he hasn't done it in every at-bat before? You mean, your analysis of the stats has led you to conclude that it's "impossible" for Matt Murton to hit a homerun every time he comes to the plate the rest of the year? Hmmm...

STFU w/ the "stats can't predict the future" crap. It's creating a straw man.

by tyger1147 on Aug 15, 2007 9:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

First of all...
the subject under discussion is a video game.  Should a player who was hurt for a large number of games the past few seasons be more apt to get injured as your playing?  I see the argument.  I understand it.  I reject it though.  The injuries that are sustained should be based on how frequently you hit someone or are involved in a pile.  The probability that one will get injured cannot be compared to a batting average.  Freak accidents happen.  Sometimes they happen twice to the same player.  Get over it.

I didn't say "stats can't predict the future" I said the past can't predict the future.  I'm talking specifically about an "injury bug".  

I remember earlier in the season when everyone said "oh, Barry Bonds will break the record by the all-star break".  Hardy har har.  

People use statistics to make all sorts of piss poor predictions too.  Just because they are right half the time doesn't mean the predictions were right, it could also mean they were lucky.  

It's all a numbers game.  I know this.  I just don't think injuries fall into that category.  Especially since Brown's injuries were not the same injuries.  Knee, calf, foot.  I think that was the progression?  Even if they were all on the same leg, I think they are completely independent.  But I could be wrong.  I've allowed that possibility.  

"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 15, 2007 9:26 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just can't take the pressure!!!!!!!
Ahhhhhh!

It's already been a long week at work.  Need to vent.

I think my hope that Brown will play the whole season is clouding my judgment.  I still think every injury is a new dice roll, but perhaps some roll d20s and others roll a d6.  

"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 15, 2007 9:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cough, dork!
Though I think you hit the nail on the head there.  Injuries can be predicted with statistics and past events only in a long term, multi player analysis...but fluke events still happen and sometimes players who are injury prone somehow stay up when they weren't expected to be.

However, some players (McNabb, Vick, RBs with more than 370 carries in a season) are more likely to get hurt in some ways because of the way that they play the game, prepare for the game, etc..

by dejackso on Aug 15, 2007 9:46 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One of my pet theories...
is that the fact they force players to tape their ankles up so they don't roll them has created the multitude of knee or other leg injuries in the league.  The first place that is SUPPOSED TO give (by either design or evolution or whatever else) is the ankle, if that is taped up, guess what, the knee/calf/hamstring/quad will take up the slack and ligaments will break or muslces will strain in ways they aren't designed for.  Maybe I'm just crazy though.
"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 15, 2007 10:03 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This maybe true
And it sounds logical to me.  But...

Don't you think that trained professional medical staffs would have the exact answer on this?  If so, wouldn't they disallow taping that prevents smaller injuries only to aid bigger ones?

by Chad on Aug 15, 2007 12:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, the taping
prevents smaller injuries, literally every game, so it might be warranted.  I honestly don't think it was thought about too hard.  Just like whatever the hell they gave Walter to keep him in the game back in the 80s.  

In my opinion, the physiology of the body is not as understood as it really could be.  How does one go about testing the tensile strength of a live tibia?  I mean, they can take bones without the muscles and ligaments all in working order from a cadaver and figure it out pretty close, but they're all approximations.  Same goes with how much strain is placed on the knee when making a cut on artifical turf with a taped ankle as you're hit by Warren fucking Sapp.  I'm sure they do studies on this from time to time modeling the body, etc., but pretty much every single physiology professor will tell you "don't let your kids play football, it will destroy their bodies, especially their brains".  

The whole "Jocks are dumb" stereotype is pretty well true because they take more hits to the head than someone in the band (on average...those drumline dudes can get kind of crazy with their sticks/mallets).

"World Champs" on 3. 1...2...3, "WORLD CHAMPS!"

by mikebdot on Aug 15, 2007 12:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Correction
"Just like whatever the hell they gave Walter to keep him in the game back in the 80s."

I've seen interviews with him and coaches saying he never took anything. It's called being tough.

Sure, he'd ice and tape but according to him and others he wouldn't take painkillers.

by PopeFlick on Aug 16, 2007 7:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What depth chart are you looking at?
http://www.chicagobears.com/team/depthchart.asp - click on defense. And ESPN has the same... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/depth?formationId=16&team=chi

This is what the Bears have been saying ALL ALONG, ever since they've brought Adam over. Brown at Free, Arch at Strong, Manning the first off the bench at either spot. Maybe you want it different, but Madden is going to default it the way the team has it. Madden has this one correct.

Besides, hasn't Mike Brown always been a free and arch always been a strong? And aren't they the two best safeties? Why would you bring someone in to be strictly an insurance back up?

by tyger1147 on Aug 14, 2007 11:40 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh...my bad...
I guess i was just going by how i think the Bears should set it. I do disagree with saying Brown and Arch are the 2 best safeties, I think we'd be better with Manning at Free and Brown at Strong with Arch spelling Brown as often as possible to keep both of them healthy.

by lopey986 on Aug 14, 2007 12:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dunno...
...can't a freak injury occur anytime? Benson wasn't used much and he's been hurt his two years in the league? You think Manning is better than Archuletta?

by tyger1147 on Aug 14, 2007 3:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah...
i do think Manning is better than Arch...maybe i'm the only one, i dunno, i never really liked him that much while he was in St Louis either.

by lopey986 on Aug 14, 2007 5:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmm
olsen worse than clark.

i doubt that.

by mike b on Aug 14, 2007 8:30 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

College stats
Kyle Orton

Games / Comp / Att / Comp % / YDS / TD / INT

2001 Purdue            
|  6 |  69 142  48.6%  686  2  3
2002 Purdue            
| 12 | 192 317 60.1%  2257 13  9
2003 Purdue            
| 13 | 251 414 60.6%  2885 15  7
2004 Purdue            
| 11 | 236 389 60.7%  3090 31  5
Total
| 42 | 748 1262 59.3% 8918 61  24

Chris Leak

Games / Comp / Att / Comp % / YDS / TD / INT

2003 Florida            
|  | 190 320 59.4%  2435 16  11
2004 Florida          
|  | 238 399 59.6%  3197 29  12
2005 Florida            
|  | 235 374 62.8%  2639 20   6
2006 Florida          
|  | 232 365 63.6%  2942 23  13
Total
|  | 895 1458 61.4% 11213 88  42

I don't get how you can say that Orton had the better college career.  It looks pretty one sided in favor of Leak.  Orton might have been a better prospect, but completion percentage is the best indicator of NFL success when translating from college stats...and they're both pretty good in that department.  

by dejackso on Aug 15, 2007 8:44 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Orton...
was finally a Heisman candidate when he got to his Senior year, without his injury he would've finished at least top 5 in the voting, maybe even had a shot at winning it.

by lopey986 on Aug 15, 2007 1:04 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah?
Leak was a candidate twice.  However, neither ever finished in the top 10 in their career.  Here are the results for Orton's senior year

2004  
1  Matt Leinart  Southern California    1,325  
2  Adrian Peterson  Oklahoma  Fr.         997  
3  Jason White  Oklahoma  Sr.             957  
4  Alex Smith  Utah  Jr.                  635  
5  Reggie Bush  Southern California  So.  597  
6  Cedric Benson  Texas  Sr.              187  
7  Jason Campbell  Auburn  Sr.            162  
8  J.J. Arrington  California  Sr.        115  
9  Aaron Rodgers  California  Jr.          67  
10  Braylon Edwards  Michigan  Sr.         62  

by dejackso on Aug 15, 2007 4:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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