things to take away from the minnesota game
well that game went a long way to clearing up a few things for this team, such as;
1. Kyle Orton early season 2008 = Rex Grossman early season 2006: What a difference some time in the league makes. it seems that once teams actually start to plan around you a little bit your true colors really begin to show. we can all blame the ankle if we want, but no ankle sprain makes you misread coverage multiple times in a game and no, this is not some hasty split second pissed off evaluation, i have been feeling all year that orton's performance has been a mirage caused by playing mediocre pass defenses.
2. this coaching staff is horrible, seriously. i have never drank more during a bears game than i did tonight and i still saw the berrian play coming from a mile away. really, tillman, you are going to break in on that fucking play despite the fact that we have 8 men in the box already and you are guarding the fastest player on the field? jesus this team is abysmal in about every aspect of their game but i blame the majority of this on the coaching staff. multiple bad calls by both coordinators and lovie's country club attitude has really taken it's toll on this once hungry defense.
3. it is time to rethink the tampa 2: sure, the tampa 2 has been around for a long time and for some teams it can still work...this isn't one of those teams. this team is getting old and showing it's age in brown, urlacher, tillman and our defensive ends. we get no pressure up front, we cover no one down field and the 10-15 yard area down the middle of the field is consistently open due to urlacher's inability to cover any ground. we need to switch this defense to something else, something more vanilla, a simple 2 man under or cover 3 scheme that we can execute more easily with our personnel that we have right now. oh, and fire the 2 morons who are responsible for the defense (babich and lovie, i'm pointing @ you).
4.keep ron turner; i know, i know, crazy right? never would i have suggested this, but he has called some good games this season and he is really starting to get some steam rolling and i don't see any better options out there @ this point so i think the best move is to stick w/ turner and try to bring in some more weapons for him to utilize (because all we have right now is forte and that just isn't enough).
5. the devin hester conundrum; jeez, has anyone else ever seen a punt returner run so timidly? the guy made some great moves in the receiving games, but please please please get him out of returning. i know he says he still wants the ball on the returns, but i sure can't tell, and when gale sayers says you are running scared...well...the man knows a thing or two about football and i'm more inclined to believe him over lovie who spins everything to the positive (kyle orton turned the ball over 3 times! well, this is a learning experience!)
that is the end of my incoherent rambling because it is high time i pass out and try to forget the disaster of a football game i witnessed. i sincerely hope we get blown out the rest of the year because i swear i'm developing an ulcer and more of a drinking problem than i already have.
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75 comments
Comments
hmm
1 – I have been saying that about Orton for weeks.
3 – The Bears have not played a lot of Cover-2 this year. The Bears are not confident that their front 7 can stop the run or get pressure on the quarterback, so they cannot and do not play cover-2 consistently. And the bigger problem with Urlacher is not that he cannot cover any ground, but that he cannot tackle. And the Bears continue to run these schemes with Urlacher and Briggs at the line of scrimmage, and there are not any linebackers in the game that can get back into coverage effectively all when you are putting them at the line of scrimmage all game.
4 – How do you say that the coaching staff is terrible and then go on to say that the Bears should keep Turner?
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by big_lowitzki on Nov 30, 2008 11:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously?
Urlacher can’t cover any ground anymore? I believe he intercepted a Rodger’s pass deep down the middle two weeks ago and has made some nice plays in the passing game. Briggs had two INTs last week as well, albeit against the Rams, but they still can play that way. Their pass coverage from their LBs wasn’t the problem at all against the Vikings. That is true the cover-2 hasn’t been utilized much this year cause the line hasn’t generated enough pressure.
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by propheteer on Dec 3, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
Did you even read what I wrote?
I said that the problem IS NOT that he cannot cover any ground.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 4, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1- Orton sucks
2- Turner sucks
3- Babich sucks
4- Lovie needs to get his head out of his ass
Thank you,
these bumblefucks think the Sox are going to trade Dye. I said I would cancel my membership on here in martyrdom of Dye being traded.
by Jbasic89 on Nov 30, 2008 11:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
where's leopold
so we can get all the grossman fanboy triplets in one diary?
by mike b on Dec 1, 2008 12:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
what ...
… does this post have to do with Rex Grossman?
Don’t get me wrong – I thought that Rex was a better option than Orton. I think that I was wrong.
And I don’t think that Orton OR Grossman are a good option moving forward.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
this post HAS nothing to do with rex grossman…rex grossman and kyle orton DO NOT go hand in hand and i don’t know why when anyone says kyle orton is not the answer everyone’s response is that they are a grossman fanboy? for the record, grossman sucks and kyle looked just like rex last night.
by lopey986 on Dec 1, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I so agree
If the Bears are going to build a strong team and move forward we need a new QB. If Rex and Orton are the future of this team it is going to be a rough road ahead. It’s time to make some changes!!!
by bpayton34 on Dec 3, 2008 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
where is leopold now? I always remember you guys would get into an argument in literally every thread you posted in.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
by thecoolest on Dec 1, 2008 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
no ankle sprain makes you misread coverage multiple times in a game and no, this is not some hasty split second pissed off evaluation,
Maybe not misreading coverage but I bet it doesn’t help your accuracy & velocity at all.
And its a division game which are tough because they know your tedencies too well.
And posting drunk is no way to start the week.
Boiler up!
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 1, 2008 7:42 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
so...
Orton is excused for playing badly in division games?
That should be fun.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you delusional?
You think a new QB would change things?
That should be fun.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
What does that have to do with excusing Orton for playing badly against NFC North teams?
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a cross-thread argument
You don’t want Orton, you want someone else.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
This mini-thread was started because halfblindcubbiegirl blamed Orton’s struggles on playing within the division.
And that is a joke.
Are you telling me that you agree with her? That we should expect Orton to struggle from here on out when he plays within the division?
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
that I expect to see him struggle against good defenses.
by McRipper on Dec 1, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'll telling you that I'm giving her a pass and going after you today
You continually point out the flaws in other people’s arguments or simple statements, but when someone challenges you, all you have to say is that they’re wrong.
I’ve asked you repeatedly to tell me who you wanted instead of Orton. I’ve gotten nothing. Not a surprise.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
When have I just said that someone is wrong?
I have already answered your question. I have said that I don’t know who the Bears should go after, but that I don’t think that Kyle Orton is a player that a team should build around, or, in other words, he isn’t a player that should be rewarded with a long-term contract.
Got it?
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And in my estimation, that's moronic
A carpenter can’t build something without straight nails and a good hammer. We have bent nails and a hammer made out of paper mache.
So, because we have faulty equipment, we should get rid of the carpenter?
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if...
… the carpenter is mediocre, he is going to build mediocre buildings, regardless of the tools around him.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But that's just it
We don’t know if Orton is truly mediocre or if Orton’s mediocre because of the lack of playmakers. We don’t know. You don’t know, I don’t know.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well...
… I know.
It just appears that you do not know.
Kyle Orton has a career completion % of 54.8 – that is mediocre, if not bad.
Kyle Orton has a career yards/attempt of 5.86. That is mediocre.
Kyle Orton has a career TD/INT ratio of 25/22. That is mediocre.
Kyle Orton has a career QB rating of 71.1. That is bad.
And if you just look at this year, here are his NFL rankings:
Completion %: 18th (of 31)
Yds/Att: 23rd (of 31)
TD: 11th (of 42)
INT: 7th (of 31)
QB Rating: 18th (of 31)
If that doesn’t scream mediocrity, I am not sure what does.
But sure… I guess we don’t know if he is mediocre or not.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Terrific reasoning
I’ve had better conversations with a dog.
Again, you don’t know. You can say you do, but you don’t. Way to (yet again) bypass my argument.
I’m done arguing with you; find someone else.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
terrific reasoning?
You mean… I actually used objective measures to show that he is a mediocre quarterback?
Your dog does better than that? Interesting.
What argument did you make? You claim that Orton is mediocre (wait… are you admitting that Orton is mediocre? Finally?) because of mediocre tools around him. Yet you ignore anything that he does wrong that is unrelated to the tools around him.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We don’t know if Orton is truly mediocre or if Orton’s mediocre because of the lack of playmakers.
Objective measures are great. Unfortunately, we don’t know if his mediocrity is because of his talent or the people around him. Thus, objective measures in this argument are irrelevant.
Orton made bad decisions (I stated that quite clearly in the Quotables post). But, he also had a ton of dropped balls. Can’t deny that.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never...
…denied the dropped balls, nor have I made a huge deal about his incompletion numbers, have I?
Thus, objective measures in this argument are irrelevant.
Wow. There really is no way to respond to that.
You are right – if you won’t accept objective measures, we will not know anything. Ever.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are right – if you won’t accept objective measures, we will not know anything. Ever.
I’m all for using stats. I just brought up a devil’s advocate position when you attacked #23’s argument. So, nice try.
Again, look at my reply to thecubreporter. We can look at Orton’s stats until we go blind, it won’t matter.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sure
I’m all for using stats.
Except when they don’t support your point?
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, look at my reply to thecubreporter.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what argument has he bypassed?
he’s laid out a pretty substantial and objective case on why he thinks orton is mediocre and has answered every claim and question you’ve made.
You’re the one throwing your hands up in the air with the always irrefutable, “we just don’t know” argument.
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, thanks little big
Unfortunately he hasn’t, but nice try.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what hasn't he answered?
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This:
We don’t know if Orton is truly mediocre or if Orton’s mediocre because of the lack of playmakers. We don’t know. You don’t know, I don’t know.
Again, stats are great for using in certain arguments. This isn’t one of them.
The only way we’ll know for sure is if one of two things happen:
1) We get rid of Orton, keep the same OL/WR corp, and see how a different QB does.
2) We get a good WR and see how Orton does for one more year.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so he didn't answer
something that you claimed was unanswerable…awesome.
and he did his best to answer it, you just refuse to accept any type of statistical analysis on this topic, because as the czar of what can and can’t be used, you’ve decided stats can’t be used on this topic because it doesn’t work for you.
Here’s the non-stats version…
Ortion has average arm strength at best, isn’t mobile at all, doesn’t read defenses particularly well and has okay accuracy.
Only one of those things has much of a chance of improving w/o steroids.
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even know why I'm dealing with you
since I was talking with big.
I have nothing more to say to you.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's an Internet message board
made to the public, where anyone can chime in with their opinions.
or is that irrelevant too?
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I ever say that you couldn't chime in?
Or are you pulling things out of the air (again)?
I’m just letting you know that I’m not dealing with you. I at least know that big has a position.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t even know why I’m dealing with you
since I was talking with big.
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what did I pull out of the air before?
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But...
Rob has very good points, and you are choosing to ignore them. How about this…
Ortion has average arm strength at best, isn’t mobile at all, doesn’t read defenses particularly well and has okay accuracy.
Only one of those things has much of a chance of improving w/o steroids.
There… now I said it, and you were talking to me.
Will you respond to the points now?
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I don't know who Ortion is.
But sure.
Again, everyone (including me) is reacting poorly to a game. Overall, I don’t think Orton’s accuray is bad. I think he’s usually pretty good. First two points are correct. Personally, I don’t particularly agree with the third point.
Let’s agree to disagree and call it a night.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm reacting
to much more than one game.
I think Orton was way overrated for a few games against poor pass defenses earlier this season and I said whomever the Bears put behind center starting with the Titans game would struggle over the next 4 except versus the Rams.
The easy part of the schedule is back (except the GB game) and Orton will probably look decent again.
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And my thing is more that
1) Orton has struggled. I’m not making excuses, so don’t take this as one, BUT who knows how his ankle is. Brandon Lloyd was off the injury report and didn’t play until last night.
2) You’re right, we had a tough schedule in the middle.
3) To axe Orton after this season, in my estimation, is not smart.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who has...
… said that the Bears should “axe Orton after this season?”
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't know either.
He’s here for another year. Why not either: A) get someone you know is better, or B) get someone who has a chance to better?
I know it’s conditioning from being a fan of a team (or teams if you like the Bulls and Cubs, too) that have zero long-term vision, but, especially in the NFL, you are allowed to have contingency plans.
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by tyger1147 on Dec 1, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm....
We don’t know if Orton is truly mediocre or if Orton’s mediocre because of the lack of playmakers. We don’t know. You don’t know, I don’t know.
^ Written two comments prior to the one you responded to.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I glaze over most of what you write, apparently.
My fault.
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by tyger1147 on Dec 2, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol, no biggie.
And I dispute your comment about the Bulls. Gooden, Hughes, Thabo….all fantastic players and great pieces to help D-Rose bring a championship back to Chicago.
Huge joke. I felt dirty writing that.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 2, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, people said the same thing about Grossman for like...
…15 years.
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by tyger1147 on Dec 1, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think everybody is missing the point
we are arguing about two QBs who may or may not be mediocre. You forget in the past we were arguing between QBs we knew sucked. The fact that we have a mediocre QB is amazing.
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by Adam T on Dec 2, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again on the "we've settled" point
We’re ecstatic to have mediocre QBs. It’s a terrible thing to settle for that especially the other parts of the team that were supposed to carry the team, don’t or can’t.
by Arbusto on Dec 2, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't settling
I was lightening the mood.
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by Adam T on Dec 2, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
btw...
… why are you so defensive about Kyle Orton?
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because it is absolutely moronic
to blame it on the QB, get a new one, go through 3 years of horrible play so MAYBE we would be good. What if we get the next Rex? That would work real well.
All we need is to retool the OL (not hard) and get a playmaking receiver (again, not hard).
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
You think that it is moronic to think that a team shouldn’t build around a mediocre (at best) quarterback?
And yea – the Bears could get another Rex. But if you constantly live in fear because of a previous decision, you won’t be able to accomplish anything.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he's mediocre now
Again, with a bad OL and WR corps. That’s right, get rid of the quarterback because of that. That’s smart.
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 1, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow...
You know – if you keep saying the same thing over and over and over again, it doesn’t make it true.
Kyle Orton is a mediocre QB because has average talent, which isn’t helped by having mediocre talent around him.
It is pretty simple. I don’t hate Kyle Orton, but I do not think that he is a good QB, and I want a good QB. I would rather take a risk, draft a rookie QB with higher potential, and not reward mediocrity.
I have no idea how people are content with Kyle Orton.
I want the Bears to win a Super Bowl. I want them to be the best team in the league, year after year. They are not going to be that with Kyle Orton, or this defense, or this offensive line, or this wide receiving corp.
In turn, I would rather see them rebuild now, with a good, young QB that has much higher potential.
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by big_lowitzki on Dec 1, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We've settled
“I have no idea how people are content with Kyle Orton.”
We’re used to not having good QBs. Orton looked stable in comparison. So we’ve settled.
I’ve never said Orton is a great QB but I’ve never said he’s terrible. He surprised me a few times this year with some decent play but overall I agree with you that he’s mediocre. His accuracy comes in the short field and has little to no down field threat. There’s nothing the receivers can do with that.
I think earlier in the year he was showing decent decision making but has regressed from that. And the injury is throwing off what accuracy he may have had.
I also don’t think you need to put in a different QB or move Orton to a New England to see if it’s the receivers/OL vs. the QB that create a bad team. That argument is just silly and makes no sense. You can look at other factors independent of receivers/OL to see some of that and many of those have been listed here: mobility, arm strength, decision making.
For the accuracy argument, anybody got a count on dropped balls vs “nowhere near the receiver balls”?
by Arbusto on Dec 1, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If getting anyone new = getting the next Rex...
…then the Bears scouting department should be fired.
It’s not a crime to want better than a mediocre QB.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 1, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this whole argument is hilarious
because it seems that this is how the downfall of rex grossman began. people cut him slack because those around him sucked, but that only lasts so long before you start to wonder if maybe, just maybe, he actually sucks and he is just compounding the problem.
it is going to be interesting to see the same shift in attitude happen w/ orton if he continues to play poorly…right now we are in the apologetic stages where we cut him some slack because his help sucks, but soon we will get to the stage where he gets boo’d anytime he sets foot on the field just like grossman.
and honestly, i’m starting to feel like we shouldn’t reward ANYONE with a contract extension while they still have years left on their current deal, because look how well it has worked out for us. these guys seem to play much harder when there is a contract on the line and once they get it they just get complacent (although it doesn’t help that lovie does nothing to keep these guys hungry).
by lopey986 on Dec 2, 2008 12:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is one thing you are right on about
Jerry’s (updated) rules for signing guys:
1) Don’t overpay, even a litte bit
2) Don’t do it early
3) Fire Bob Babich
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by ChiFan13 on Dec 2, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't mistake delusional
with being drunk, or maybe he’s a delusional drunk. At least he wasn’t drunk dialing anyone.
If things came easy, then everybody would be great at what they did, let's face it.
Mike Ditka
by Ditkavsworld on Dec 1, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we admit I was right all along?
The fluke early wins against the Colts and the Eagles… that’s all they were.
A win is a win and yay and all that, but they aren’t better than either of those teams.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 1, 2008 9:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought
they were a 6-win team, so I’m actually impressed by them. Of course, 3 were against the Rams and Lions…do they actually count?
The defense looks old and slow to me, the O-line is still a disaster and I have nothing good to say about Orton other than he can beat up some bad defenses, which i guess is better than sucking all the time.
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by thecubreporter on Dec 1, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought they were a 4-6 win team, and I assume they'll win one more game at least.
So they’ve probably exceeded my expectations.
Viva la nuance! Reading comprehension rules!!!
by tyger1147 on Dec 1, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, look,
It’s Ron Turner’s mom!
I’ve been impressed with your boy off and on this season, ma’am, which has surprised me, as I thought that I hated him with harsh passion. For most of the year, he’s seemed confident in his offense, and allowed them to make some interesting plays. But you have got to be kidding me if you think that he escapes any of the blame for that game. He was the one who ran three up the middle flops on the goal line in a row against a Vikings line that can be as stout as any in football when all it’s trying to do is stop the run. That’s where the game died, and that one was his fault. Of all the coaches who embarrassed this team yesterday, Ron Turner did it in the stupidest way.
—d
by itsugly on Dec 1, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i should correct one thing
keep ron turner so long as he is no longer allowed to run that fucking fullback dive, that thing kills me every friggin time.
and this list is in no particular order…trying to order the crappiness of this team would be near impossible.
by lopey986 on Dec 1, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing is wrong with Orton..
He has only played 29 games, and the one thing all QBs say is that you can’t practice game speed. He has shown visible improvement from his first go-around as a rookie. Someone earlier mentioned his stats, and yes they are mediocre, but they are better than when he started as a rookie (check out these situational stats from this year and compare to his rookie year):
http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/situationalstats?id=ORT716150&season=2008
The bottom line is that Orton is getting better.
The real question is what would a healthy Orton look like against the Packers and Vikings? Due to the tight coverage, inability of our WRs to gain real seperation from DBs, and the inability of the WRs to get of the line of scrimmage, I have to think that Orton would have played better on a healthy-ier ankle, because his accuracy would have been better allowing for him to throw into the small windows that were allowed.
Think back to the play where the ball was thrown just a half-step behind Hester, but still managed to get past Winfield (the Vikings best corner); those are the types of plays that Orton would make on healthy ankle, not to say he would had a perfectly thrown ball, but it would have been a completion.
by escolio on Dec 1, 2008 9:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
hahahahahaha
i swear if i were willing to go back 2 years to late 2006 you could find this exact same post by someone but “kyle orton” would be replaced with “rex grossman”.
by lopey986 on Dec 2, 2008 12:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll buy the healthy ankle
thing for the GB game, because it was obvious he was hampered, but I don’t recall seeing him limping versus the Vikings. In fact it looked like he was moving around pretty good.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Dec 2, 2008 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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