Orton Needs Big Games To Lock Up Spot For Next Year

by Adam T on Dec 19, 2008 7:49 AM CST Comment 22 comments

Ron Jaworski is a polarizing figure. I recall most people enjoyed him when he was on the film breakdown show with Merrill Hoge, but since he has left and joined Monday Night Football I have heard some backlash go his way. Whether you like him or now, he is fairly well regarded when it comes down the Xs and Os of football. Jaws had time to watch every snap he took this season in preperartion for this Monday's Bears/Packers game and in an interview he was asked if he thought the Bears should commit long term to him.

His answer was simply...No. He followed it up with, "but they might", but the point is there.

Orton is borderline right now. There will be a few guys out there who might be better options for the Bears, I know a lot of people are high on Matt Cassell. If Orton wants to keep his job it would serve him well to end the season with two big games. If he can beat the Bears hated rival and then play well against a surging Houston team it might be enough to get him a longer stay in Chicago.

Poll

Will Kyle Orton be our starter next season?

YES

331 votes

NO

81 votes

412 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 22 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

It's Interesting

I am all for letting him play into next season and if he’s the starter and he is playing well then extend him don’t do it this offseason, the last thing we want is a Derek Anderson. I say draft someone in the middle rounds and see if they can develop and yeah keep Hanie.

Fire Ron Turner!!!
Fire Angelo!!

by GallopingGhost on Dec 19, 2008 8:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

If a guy like Cassel

is available, would you be interested in bringing him in?

Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!

by Adam T on Dec 19, 2008 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Only if...

We get, you know, a receiver and some new linemen. I’m just going to feel bad for Cassel if he comes in here and then he’s made to look like Craig Krenzel because he’s either constantly getting sacked or his receivers are constantly dropping passes.

If you were able to bring him in, shore up the line a bit, and get him even just one pair of hands, we’d be in fine shape. Lining up an efficient go-to receiver across the field from whatever hester-davis-whomever combo would give us a decent shot.

However, I think we all know that ownership isn’t suddenly going to open the pocketbooks for such a maneuver, so I think we can safely say right now that Orton will start, and the backup spot will be between Hanie and whichever 5th round QB Angelo picks.

by KDoggers on Dec 19, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Depends... can he bring his coaching staff with him?

1. They can actually evaluate talent.
2. They can actualy develop talent.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Dec 22, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't matter who the QB is

The Oline is more important. If they could solidify the line with some good, young talent, it does more to the offense than upgrading the QB would. Forte becomes even more lethal, and when your running game is on, so goes your passing game. Any NFL caliber QB could pick apart a defense if given enough time.

by McRipper on Dec 19, 2008 8:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree on almost everything.

Offensive line makes everyone look good. Give a running back holes and he’ll get a few extra yards even if he is bad. Give a good running back a few more holes and he breaks an extra long one or two a game. That will dramatically change our field position and extend our drives. Especially if we can get a better push up the middle on 3rd and short. Right now Forte has to earn every single inch. It would be nice for the line to earn the whole yard once in a while.

And you are correct, the better Forte is, the more wide open the passing game will be.

One thing about Orton, I will disagree on. He has to get more accurate 20+. Maybe he can get better this offseason, but he has to stop guessing how far to throw ball and make these receivers adjust so often on their routes. We’re going to be known for our circus catches if he doesn’t improve. Yes he can pick you a part short, but not down the field. Luckily with a good running game, short may be enough.

Checklist
- We have a young T prospect and G prospect in Williams and Beekman
- We have Olsen and Clark who are reliable at TE.
- We have Hester who is dangerous and getting better.
- We have a ton of #3 WR’s.
- We have a great young RB

- Still need a go to #1 receiver
- Still need to get younger at 3 more places on the line over the next 2-3 years (don’t forget FA management)
- We will need a new backup QB since Grossman will soon be Goneman

One note on defense:
I think it is time to replace Mark Anderson with a first or second round DE. If we use our first round pick in a trade for a #1, we should go #2 on either a guard or tackle (only if good, don’t waste the pick), or a DE and then find a new OL in FA. If we don’t use that first pick on a WR, then we should go 1) OL, 2) DE 3) WR.

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on Dec 19, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Points

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Beekman take over for Kruetz when he packs it in. Williams, they don’t know what they have in him just yet, so the jury is still out on him. I hope he can be the player they envisioned him being.

It’s no secret the Bears are very average in a number of offensive positions. But the Bears have put together some pretty nice drives with this bunch. They have also looked like shit in some games.

I don’t think we really have seen the best from Forte. He’s a great back, even so with this shitty oline blocking for him. If they can get some beef up front for him, i think he could be up there with the elite RBs in the league.

Orton has looked tremendous in some games, and terrible in other. Like you said, he can’t throw a deep route well at all. Maybe he’s still learning and he’ll get better. He seems to have a fairly average arm strength. I think he could be a very productive QB if the running game is going strong.

Olsen and Clark are great. I like Clark, but some of me thinks he’s holding Olsen back. I’d like to see Olsen play more like Cooley and Witten do. They are huge parts of their offense. Why not Olsen? He’s havoc on a secondary if he’s utilized properly.

Hester is improving nicely. His route on Harper in the Saints game(i think it was Harper) when he did the stop and go was one of the nicest routes I’ve seen anybody run. He’s too good to not be a huge part of this offense. Scrap the screens to Hester. Let the guy run down the field and occupy the safety to create some room for Olsen. I think next year, Hester will come into his own at WR.

A #1 reciever is a priority. I just don’t know if giving up what we would have to to get Boldin will be worth it. If Burress is cut, get him. Look at Housh. He’s getting older but damn he’s good. I would love Boldin but would have to see what the price would be for him. Too many holes to fill to justify that trade.

Backup QB is going to be interesting. Who’s available next year? Grossman is not going to get a starting shot anywhere. Why not just bring him back to be the backup? He knows the offense. He knows the players. It wouldn’t be my first option, but it’s worth looking into.

Anderson is an enigma. He was great in 06 but hasn’t regained his form. He’s an obvious passing situation rusher because he’s a liability against the run. I don’t know what to do with him. How many more years does Wale have? They need to do find his replacement and I don’t think Anderson is it. On the other hand, if they sign Haynesworth, they could probably afford to put Anderson out there. Haynesworth and Harris in the middle would be devastating.

All I know is that I want my old Bears defense back. They one where you knew that if we scored 17 points, we knew we were going to win. Those days seem so long ago don’t they?

by McRipper on Dec 19, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Quarterbacks

I think the problem with keeping Grossman is that the players don’t seem to trust him, and the coaching staff seemed down enough on his performance in the second half of the Lions game and the Titans game to rush a still-badly hurt (they’re now admitting) Orton in to take on the Packers. He may know the system, but the system seems to have given up on him. I’ve always liked the dude, but I don’t think he can lead a Bears’ offense anymore.

Everyone has their picks for who they’d like to see backing up/competing with Orton, and mostly it’s just a matter of taste. If he’s going to re-enter the league as cheaply as the judges seem to think, I’d love to see Mike Vick get a shot at it, but I’m sure that’s a controversial opinion. I think throwing money after a guy like Cassel is an awesome way to waste a bunch of money. There’s no way he’d put up numbers like he has this year in the Bears’ system. We’d just be disappointed.

—d

by itsugly on Dec 19, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Grossman

by no means would be my choice. I was trying to imagine what the Bears would do. I don’t know what I would do. I would look to see who was available and make a decision. I wouldn’t overspend on crap (see Griese, Brian) and I wouldn’t put an unknown out there( see Hanie, Caleb). I’d probably go with a Todd Collins type to be a back-up.

Vick would never come back to be a back-up. He won’t even come back to be a QB. He wasn’t that good to begin with and now that he’s been out the league for a couple seasons, he’ll probably be a WR, if he comes bac at all. I’m sure he will though considering he owes money to a lot of people.

by McRipper on Dec 19, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Orton as a Starter

The poll question should be, “Should Orton be our starter next year?” I think Jaworski is very good and I value his opinion. Someone else noted that Collinsworth said that Orton is not good when his initial read is not open. Part of that may be due to the lack of pass protection, but if a quarterback can’t make a good decision on his 2nd, 3rd reads then he is not a long term solution. Nevertheless, I think we can do pretty good next year with him at QB if we put together a stellar offensive line with some depth (injuries happen) and find at least 2 top notch receivers, one a definite number 1. The draft is not the answer for receiver since we keep drafting them and they never do anything (Bradley, Bennett, etc.). Rashied Davis may need to improve his hands or go back to defensive back. His hands are too unreliable. Not every pass is going to be perfect, so the receivers need to be able to catch or bat the ball down. Too many interceptions have bounced off our receivers. Not the QB’s fault. So if Orton had some weapons to throw to he might be good enough. I say use our 1 st rounder on getting Boldin and suddenly our offense looks a lot better. I see Hester as a slot receiver. He would be a nightmare for teams to cover with their third defensive back. Plus, he could run routes all over the field from the slot.

by itsirk on Dec 19, 2008 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You do know that we are pretty strapped for cash.

The cap will increase, but how do you figure we can grab 2 top notch receivers and put together a stellar offensive line with depth.

What draft picks would you use on offense to accomplish this?
Are both of the WR’s or any of these lineman coming through FA or trade?
How much money do you think it will take to sign these guys?
Which lineman do we need to replace to make a stellar OL?

If we could get Boldin for only a first rounder, I will be shocked, but we better do it. I’m sure other teams would offer more than that. The Eagles I’m sure offered more than that last year.

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on Dec 19, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

kreutz /Tait

renegotiate..pay cut or adios…

by tfrabotta on Dec 19, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I decided to leave the

Should he be our starter for later.

I just wanted to see what you thought about how management would deal with him.

Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!

by Adam T on Dec 19, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kruetz is a leader. Losing leaders hurts your team.

He leads that line. I know he has made a couple of errors this year and in past years with the snap, but you leaders like Briggs, Urlacher, Kruetz, Brown are hard to replace. They inspire everyone play better and they yell at the guys who need yelled out, they are respected by their peers. I think Kruetz has 3-4 years left and will be the last guy replaced. Either him or Garza.

The way I see the line we have:
Chris Williams, Kruetz & Garza starting next season and
St. Clair, Beekman, Tait, and a rookie OL or FA competing for RT and LG.
That should leave us with good depth. Tait may be the odd guy out.

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on Dec 20, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the poll asks the wrong question

I think we may be stuck with Orton next year. We’re not likely to get a veteran QB and any draft pick isn’t likely to be thrown out there immediately.

by Arbusto on Dec 19, 2008 9:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Very true.

My question is who is going to be the backup. Does Rexy resign (doubt it)? Does Hanie become the #2? Do we draft a QB? Where would a rookie project on the depth chart? Do we bring in a FA? Does that mean another QB competition?

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on Dec 19, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the poll question

asks exactly what I wanted to ask.

I didn’t want your opinion no whether he should, just do you think he is going to.

It falls more on a question of the management than it does Orton. I was going to leave the player evals for after the season.

Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!

by Adam T on Dec 19, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The question on whether he is going to be

is a much simpler question.

by Arbusto on Dec 19, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Draft a high potential guy

Let Orton keep the reigns through the rebuilding that is inevitable (aging defense and O-line, no receivers, etc.) and if they’re really that high on Hanie let him and High-Potential-QB fight it out for who will take over.

There is no proven top-level QB out there right now, unless the Eagles lose their senses and decide to blow up the whole team (starting with the coach) and trade McNabb, who is still playing at a very high level.

by mac30 on Dec 19, 2008 10:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

hah! Weather for Friday night is a 2 degree high

that should be fun!

BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!

by Chanman25 on Dec 19, 2008 11:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

if the coaching staff stays intact

i see no reason to bring in a new quarterback. no one is going to know the system better then Kyle.

And I’m not sold on Cassel at all. I’m not 100% on Kyle either, but i’ve seen him singlehandedly win (or nearly win) games. And think he still has a high ceiling. The fact that he’s played hurt and got voted a captain by the team says something to me.

Get me, I'm giving out wings!!

by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 20, 2008 12:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Only one mention of the Dragon in this entire thread.

[shakes head]

Clutch: A measurement of how much better or worse a player does in high leverage situations than he would have done in a context neutral environment. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/

by bs.uf15bosox9bears23 on Dec 20, 2008 10:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs