Kiper, "Bears Most Improved!"

by WCG on May 1, 2008 7:40 AM CDT

Ignoring the whole "didn't draft a QB" thing, post draft Mel Kiper has said that no team helped themselves more than the Chicago Bears.

Chris Williams is the left tackle the Bears need from a pass-protection standpoint, and he'll start as a rookie. Matt Forte is a hard-nosed running back. He's not flashy, but he's elusive. I like what the Bears did on Day 2, starting with Vanderbilt WR Earl Bennett, who reminds me of Hines Ward. Arkansas DT Marcus Harrison lasted until the third round because of some off-field concerns, and Nebraska's Zack Bowman is a big corner who was once projected as a first-round pick, before he suffered injuries to both knees. LSU safety Craig Steltz -- who reminds me of former Bear Doug Plank -- will be a solid special teams player and could push for a starting job. With his height, Arkansas WR Marcus Monk could be a red zone threat and he qualifies as a very good seventh-round pick. He looked like a second-rounder after his junior year, and ran a 4.42 in the 40-yard dash, which is excellent for a 6-foot-4, 220-pound receiver. Tight end Kellen Davis has tremendous athletic ability but he needs to be more consistent.

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I just thought of something.

(No, I wont’ drop this. At least give me a week after the draft to bitch. Forgive me for not drinking the Kool-Aid so readily.)

Forte and Brohm are very close to the same prospect. Not exactly, of course, but I think it’s close. They just play different positions.

Both are adequate for their position athletically. Forte is somewhat fast, but not a burner. I’ve read some places that say he won’t be able to turn the corner. And he certainly won’t outrun anyone to the endzone. Hell, even in his “highlights” he’s getting dragged down. Second-tier conference DB’s are chasing him down. Imagine NFL DB’s. Brohm has “suspect arm strength” and lacks mobility in the pocket.

However, both “produced” in college at a level that few others in the college ranks did (among draftees, that is). Forte had some amazing numbers. Yes, it wasn’t against elite competition, but he was (supposedly) their only offensive threat. Brohm also produced in college big-time. The difference is that he did it for three years. (no, last year’s statistics were NOT that bad, despite what others say).

Neither player will be a superstar, which is what I find funny. Angelo and many here say, “Well, after Matt Ryan, no one is going to be a Top QB so why take one?” Matt Forte will NOT be a top RB either. He can be a good one, a 1000yd, 10TD runner, but he won’t be LT or LJ or Westbrook or Adrian Peterson or Steven Jackson. Let me rephrase that: He has the same chance of being those guys that Brohm has of being Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, etc.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 9:16 AM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Something else I just thought of...

...aren’t the Bears the type of team that only need an average QB. I mean, it’s Defense first. Run second. Special Teams third. Pass last. Wouldn’t a “game-manager” type like Brohm (someone who makes EXCELLENT decisions, has a super-accurate arm in the short range and reduces mistakes) the exact type of QB this team needs? The more I think about it, the more frustrated I’m getting. I suppose I should stop thinking about it and just be pissed again next year when they pick up a 32-year-old Donovan McNabb or something.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

We have a game manager - Kyle Orton - Pick Brohm another year!

I understand your thoughts on Brohm and I don’t have a problem with us taking him, but not this year. RB is more valuable to us this year than QB. We have Cedrick Benson as our starting RB and he is now possibly worse than he was last year. Do you understand how bad our running game hurt us last year. It was not QB play that hurt us, it was OL, RB’s, WR’s, and defense. All 3 QB’s had good moments last year but could not be comfortable with the OL situation. They also had no respect from defenses toward the running game.

Brohm is no different of a QB than you will see any other year of a QB draft, sorry. We can draft Brohm in the first or second round any year we want. The guy isn’t special. We all believe we can compete this year because our defense should be rejuvinated and deepened. Had they played well last year, we would have been in the playoffs. Giving up 34 points in the 4th quarter to the Lions. Letting Peterson rack up over 200 yards. I don’t expect these outcomes to become regular and you shouldn’t either.

I feel your pain really. I loved Mendenhall, but for me it is time to move forward and evaluate what we actually have. It didn’t fall my way, but I feel great about our defensive depth we added. I feel great about our players not all getting hurt on D at the same time. I feel great about having young players like Dusty, Dan, Michael, and Kevin ready to contribute. I feel like we have two full drafts this year.

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on May 1, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Game Manager... HUH???

I just don’t understand how people can call Orton a game manager. Everyone remembers the tam winning in ‘05 while he was playing but they DESPITE his play not because of it. Orton was terrible! Just because he didn’t throw touchdowns doesn’t mean he was a game manager. We didn’t expect much from him so we weren’t as hard on him as Grossman. Look at the numbers: in ‘05 (15 games) Orton fumbled 12 times! and was picked off 13 times!

I am by no means a Rex fan but in his dreaded ‘06 year he threw 20 picks and fumbled 8 times. That’s 28 turnovers (Rex) to 25 turnovers (Kyle). Really, isn’t Rex’s upside worth the 3 extra turnovers in comparison to Kyle?

Yeah, Rex is no Brady or Manning and never will be but there was noone in the draft or free agency that was better than him, so we just have to cross our fingers and hope for Good Rex another year.

by dabears#1fan on May 6, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Maybe so, maybe not

You had me until:

Matt Forte will NOT be a top RB either. He can be a good one, a 1000yd, 10TD runner, but he won’t be LT or LJ or Westbrook or Adrian Peterson or Steven Jackson. Let me rephrase that: He has the same chance of being those guys that Brohm has of being Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees, etc.

There is simply no way you can know this. The draft is a crapshoot, and highly paid professionals screw it up all the time, but when evalauting prospects, I’ll go with the opinion of the guy who’s watching tape 60 hours a week for 6 months over the guy with an opinion and little else.

by garsky on May 1, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Got me there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crapshoot! Why do it? Let’s go read some more TMQ!!!!!

You’re right, to an extent, but then why don’t we all just shut the hell up and not say a damn thing about it. Where has anyone said anything about Forte being a top RB?

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Give them a chance

It’s one thing to let us know who you like and why; I enjoy hearing posters’ opinions and their rationales behind them (even yours). It’s another thing entirely to make authoritative claims with a fraction of the information available to scouts and GMs (and even Mel Kiper).

These are the guys we’re going to battle with; let’s at least wait until they’ve had a chance to prove themselves on the field before we start bashing them.

by garsky on May 2, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I'm not going to battle anywhere.

Other than that poor use of words, I’d still like to know where anyone contradicts what I say.

You quoted what I said, but all that really says is they both have lower ceilings than “elite” status. I hardly calling that bashing anyone. However, I was allowing (as you suggested) to let them play and maybe they’ll have a chance to be that good.

Maybe I worded it poorly, or maybe I’ve just been so down on these guys that everything I type is seen through that lens, but I really don’t know understand what your problem with my statement is/was.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on May 2, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

do we currently have a player capable of rushing for 100 yrds and 10 td's?

I THINK NOT! and also LT didnt go to a div 1 school and he’s doing fine.

by SuperBowlXX on May 1, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

1000yrds

by SuperBowlXX on May 1, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Div 1

LaDanian Tomlinson went to TCU (DI). Forte went to Tulane (DI).

As far as needing a game manager over a running back…We are indeed a great defense and run the ball offense, which is why we needed a running back first.

by bs1220 on May 1, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

RB's are a dime a dozen.

There will be 4 or 5 RB’s this year drafted after the second round (of any year) who will have better seasons this year than Forte ever will.

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on May 1, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Though

those would be impressive stats.

Rushed 10 times for 10 yards each and scored 10 TDs.

Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!

by WCG on May 2, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I Agree With Mel

Except for Ryan there were no QB’s worth drafting early and even so, a top of the line QB would be worthless without major improvements in the o-line. Hopefully the Bears have started to address that issue. Only time will tell.
The only QB that intrigued me was Josh Johnson – mobility and accuracy though at a lower level of competition.
Craig Steltz is a stud and will be a starting safety for the Bears! Plus I really like Marcus Monk. I hope he is not hampered by his knee injuries.
Again only time will tell – drafts are best measured three years down the road.

by phastphil on May 1, 2008 9:41 AM CDT reply reply 0 recs

How did this guy drop?

“Arkansas WR Marcus Monk could be a red zone threat and he qualifies as a very good seventh-round pick. He looked like a second-rounder after his junior year, and ran a 4.42 in the 40-yard dash, which is excellent for a 6-foot-4, 220-pound receiver. “

6’4” 220 4.42 40? That is my prototype of a wide receiver. How did not get drafted earlier?

by tempchad on May 1, 2008 12:16 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Knee surgery

by garsky on May 1, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

oh

never mind.

by tempchad on May 1, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

didn't he run the 40 after the surgery?

i could’ve sworn hearing he recovered from the surgery to play decent for the 2nd half of the season and looked completely healthy at the combine, where he ran the 40 pretty well.

by guy incognito on May 1, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

i read the same

as fast after

by mike b on May 1, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

He did

But that still scares those wussy GMs off

by garsky on May 2, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Cedric's busted ankle...

...probably had something to do with going for Forte as well. Cedric’s less than stellar work ethic and weak dedication to his craft makes coming back from a serious leg injury a dicey proposition. With Grossman and Orton each capable of being mediocre, RB was simply a greater need in the eyes of JA & co. Now if the Bears had any creativity and traded back up into the 2nd rnd using this year’s and maybe next years picks to get Brohm; well, we all would’ve choked on our brats in astonishment.

by MuleTrain on May 1, 2008 1:57 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Happy about the draft

I hate hearing all the gloom and doom over who we should have picked. Angelo has had quite a few pleasant surprises with his method of drafting. He’s had a few disappointments, too. I choose to hope for good things out of the rookie class and not focus on every pick’s negative. Out of all our late round picks there should be a couple pleasant surprises.

Angelo filled a lot of needs, too: Starting LT, #1/1A RB, rotation WR, DT depth, S depth, CB depth, #3 TE, DE depth, WR project, G project, T project

A lot of spots on Offense and Defense are simply taken, not necessarily with the long term answer, but you can’t fix every position at once. Overall I’m pretty satisfied with the draft.

When they boo you, you know they mean you. George Halas

by allhailmark on May 2, 2008 5:28 AM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Another thing I realized...

...how big of an indictment of Angelo is that the Bears have so many needs in the first place?

"I've got a class (coming in) here, we've got a chance to do some things." --Tom Izzo on why he might not consider the Bulls coaching vacancy.

by tyger1147 on May 2, 2008 8:01 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

2007 draft is to blame..

..for the many needs to fill. JA’s fault no doubt.
2nd rnd Bazuin DE - no help, a reach of a pick that wasn’t a need, IR.
3rd rnd Wolfe RB, Okwo LB - no help, Wolfe was a major reach. Okwo on IR
4th rnd Beekman G - no help yet (fingers crossed) inactive last year.
5th rnd Payne S - no help, got hurt, on IR.

We had to try and draft most of these positions again because of last year’s utter failure of a draft.

If this year’s 2-5th round picks are as bad as last year’s, yes, we will be toast. Hopefully the guys drafted this year are better, and maybe last year’s class can breakout.

by MuleTrain on May 2, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

That is the worst post I have seen

You blame Angelo for Bazuin, Beekman, Okwo and Payne going on the IR. I’m sure you can predict the weather on September 5th, too. Give me a break.

Payne was looking much improved and looks to be a very good pick for the 5th round. Wolfe may be a mistake and completely agree, but one year and maybe 20 snaps is not really a fair assessment. I think they are going to try to use his strengths this year and see what he has. None of us have a clue on Bazuin, Okwo or Beekman. It would be nice if Beekman could become a starter, but that is wishful thinking. I have no idea if the kid is any good. We had to pick Okwo because of Briggs possibly leaving.

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on May 2, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

he's not blaming JA for them going on IR

that’s just a stupid thing to say. he’s blaming him for drafting those players when they weren’t even a need, leading to us having so many needs to fill in this year’s draft because we didn’t draft wisely with some of our picks last year.

I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad

by thecoolest on May 2, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

can't say toast yet man

we had alot of injuries in key areas that hurt more than the rookies. you had both browns , vasher harris tillman urlacher to name a few. then the subs were getting injured. and the others played hurt. so as people will try to blame last year on one or two people, it was a definite team effort. the guys that played didn’t play well on top of it. and it can only get better from here.

by coolgjc on May 3, 2008 1:23 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

exactly

Guys get hurt, but the bottom line is none of those guys contributed at all, so we had to re-draft at some of those positions.

Bazuin and Wolfte were dumb picks though. DE was not a need at all, and Wolfe is nowhere near a 3rd round talent.

by MuleTrain on May 2, 2008 3:45 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

You just dismissed the guy sticking up for you,

whey you say they didn’t contribute at all. No duh, when you’re out for the whole year you don’t play. I think you were wrong on Payne and there is no way for you to make a call on Bazuin or the others who haven’t played. You may very well be right on Wolfe, but I’m gonna wait and see on him since he hasn’t been utilized to his strengths yet as many don’t in a Ron Turner offense. Wolfe is more of a screen back out of the backfield. Who know if he could do with his speed up the middle since there wasn’t one whole the entire season.

We were drafting depth that year on defense which was the right call if you look back. We were devastated by defensive injuries and it made a huge impact on our team. The thinking was right, but we had more injuries than quality guys to fill in.

In hindsight, we should of drafted a WR last year and at least one more offensive lineman. Hindsight is 20/20.

Kick it to me... I'm open!

by #23 on May 2, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs