Let the Battle Begin!
by Adam T on Jul 23, 2008 7:45 AM CDT
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PrintThe position to watch this training camp is of course at QB. Here are their career numbers.
Rex Grossman
| Year | G | GS | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int |
| 2004 | 3 | 3 | 47 | 84 | 56.0 | 607 | 1 | 3 |
| 2005 | 2 | 1 | 20 | 39 | 51.3 | 259 | 1 | 2 |
| 2006 | 16 | 16 | 262 | 480 | 54.6 | 3193 | 23 | 20 |
| 2007 | 8 | 7 | 122 | 225 | 54.2 | 1411 | 4 | 7 |
| Career | 32 | 30 | 489 | 900 | 54.3 | 5907 | 31 | 33 |
Kyle Orton
| Year | G | GS | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | Int |
| 2005 | 15 | 15 | 190 | 368 | 51.6 | 1869 | 9 | 13 |
| 2007 | 3 | 3 | 43 | 80 | 53.8 | 478 | 3 | 2 |
| Career | 18 | 18 | 233 | 448 | 52.0 | 2347 | 12 | 15 |
Word around town is that most belive Kyle Orton will win this battle, if only for the reason he makes less mistakes. If the Special Teams continues its stellar play and the defense gets back to form all this team needs is a solid run game and a steady QB, but if the line play doesn't pick up and allow the run game to get going would Orton be able to take over?
Rex Grossman is the ultimate risk/reward player. If he gets into a rhythm he is a solid QB and throws a very good long ball, but he is incosistent and makes mistakes when the pressure is on. Plus the Bears took away his top deep ball target.
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hmm...
So Rex has a better completion %, a significantly better yards/attempt, a similar int rate, a slightly better td/uint rate, yet people still think that Orton is better?
visit the mindful mission
The NFL figured out that is you pressure Rex he makes mistakes.
Take a look at Rex’s turnovers and int’s starting with the Cardinal’s game in 2006 and that is the reason most fans are down on Rex. Most of Orton int’s were from his rookie year while he was learning on the job. Sure Rex has the better arm, but it’s lack of height and composdure in the pocket that has many fans pulling for Orton.
While 2006 may not have been Rex's "rookie" year...
some people would argue that it was the rough equivalent of Orton’s 2005, since rex really never got to play a significant number of games before then. the only difference between the two would be that Rex sat his official rookie year in 2003, but I think it’s fair to argue that that benchtime practicing with the third string doesn’t hold nearly as much weight as the “trial by fire” process QBs endure in their first seasons as the official starters.
add to that, I think that the 2005 team made it to the playoffs because of the D / in spite of Orton’s play, which I disctinctly remember was pretty underwhelming, even for a true rookie. Compare that to 2006, where despite the numerous rough spots, Rex was a very big positive component of the offense making its contribution to the collective effort in getting all the way to the Superbowl.
by The Spaniard on Jul 23, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
And...
the coin flip is interesting, considering all of the hoopla around here when it was said Orton “won” the first chance of playing with the first team.
visit the mindful mission
oh yeah,
this place was rocking!
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2008/5/20/523639/kyle-orton-get-first-shot
I was...
... referring to to this thread.
But I do guess it was only a few people who talked about Orton “winning” because he would get the first day.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Jul 23, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to make a prediction:
The special teams will take a big step back. They lost their 2nd-best player to FA, and their best player will have a more significant role in offense.
you're the second one to make that
but its still right
while hester is fucking around on offense not running routes and fumbling, other teams will only be kicking to him once we prove we can actually move the ball.
if the defense is actually healthy he could be easily overused with increase punt duties.
Seen on "SportsRise"
Grossman at training camp: “I want to be the best quarterback in the NFL.”
Jason in Iowa: blows coffee out of his nose
Just handle the snap cleanly for once, Rex.
"I don't think anybody's paying attention to the Cubs." - Prince Fielder
the poll questions
said who will be the bears qb, not who is better. i think management wants rex to be the starter.
Orton is destined to be a third string QB in this league...
unless he can improve on his touch and accuracy when throwing the ball.
I think that one of the most underdeveloped and misinterpreted arguments surrounding Rex and his abilities is that which the original post for this thread alluded to—that Rex is an extremely “high risk / high reward” player.
Lets say Rex goes on to have a year / career much like 2006 that includes a high number of TD’s (or 20+ / 40+ yard passes, however you want to think about it) and a roughly equal number of turnovers. I would hands down take that kind of a player over a Kyle Orton FOR THIS TEAM, especially for this year. Why? Because we have the kind of defense that can highly minimize the points scored off of turnovers and the best special teams in the league for taking it the distance on any given return and supplementing our offensive scoring. Aside from that, take a look at the history of the league, or even how the league is right now, with controversial QBs that have the same “high risk / high reward” success patterns that earn them heat. For some, the timing where they go on a roll works out in their favor (Brett Favre, Eli Manning), and for others they fall flat on their asses and have to get back up and cross their fingers hoping that they’ve got their best stuff the next time around and aren’t given the hook before that time comes (Tony Romo, Rex Grossman, Jeff Garcia, etc.).
It’s a pretty simple formula for success, and while it may not have the same dependability as having the exact same situation with the exception of having Peyton Manning under center, it’s what we have until something like that either falls in our lap or we make a stupid move by going out and overpaying for it while simultaneously crippling one of the previously-solid aspects of the team. Yes, its a bit of a roll of the dice, and if the backup pieces aren’t they like they weren’t there last year (meaning the defense, or a competent receiving core for that matter), it turns goes from a game of craps to a game of Russian roullette.
As a fan, I’d personally rather have the ups and downs of a humble “high risk / high reward” QB and the excitement that comes with those ups and downs than the constant, “unbeatable” dependability of an arrogant ace like Tom Brady… who we all can see can’t avoid losing at the wrong time either.
obviously forgot to turn off the bold and the italics... sorry
by The Spaniard on Jul 23, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with what you're saying
minus the part about seeng the excitement that comes with the ups and downs. I don’t like watching Rex throw an INT or fumble the snap and then praying that the defense holds up.
IF Rex has a 2006 season again, he should play. Otherwise, management should be quick to hand over the keys to Orton.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
this might be the dumbest thing i have ever read
As a fan, I’d personally rather have the ups and downs of a humble "high risk / high reward" QB and the excitement that comes with those ups and downs than the constant, "unbeatable" dependability of an arrogant ace like Tom Brady… who we all can see can’t avoid losing at the wrong time either.
First of all...
first-time poster, so pretty new at this. I just found this site a month or 2 ago, and really enjoy the content and discussion. keep it up!
Now on to the matter at hand. I would personally prefer to see Orton start at QB this season. big_low, when you compare their completion percentage, you have to take into consideration that most of what Orton did was in his rookie season. He was not expected to come in and dominate, and worked with a limited playbook. Also not included in those figures are Grossman’s fumbles. To say that Orton “makes less mistakes” as the original story says may be a stretch, but his mistakes were arguably less-costly.
Now, if Orton comes in and plays as he did in that 2005 campaign, he absolutely should NOT maintain the job. He kept his interceptions somewhat down, but he also threw a grand majority of balls at receivers’ feet, even on the dink-and-dunks. If he cannot make a play he cannot remain in there. But I do beleive to end the season last year he showed he can be a competent quarterback. He made some very nice throws in the NO and GB games, even outduelling Favre in that “wind” game. I dont know if that tells us anything, but I do believe he’s earned a chance to start the season off.
I do agree that Grossman is high risk/high reward, but we’ve only gotten probably 7-10 games of the ‘high reward’ type games from him. That leaves a lot of downside. Hedge your bets, start Orton, if he’s worthless pitch it over to Grossman, it can’t possibly shake his confidence, if thats a concern he’s already done as a quarterback from the fiasco he’s already gone through. Thats my thoughts.
tyger: I think your prediction is probably right, but it isn’t that bold of a prediction and shouldn’t be drastic. There’s no way we can expect our special teams to come up with 5-7 touchdowns a season, and the loss of AyanB will hurt, but not as bad as you might think. Expect reduced production but still a very very strong unit, both ways.
I'd have to double check
but I believe somebody looked it up and from a given point in time Grossman and Orton had the same number of fumbles.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
I am Sexy Rexy's abused housewife...
He beats me… but I still love him
I may be an idiot but I still think Rex has some magic left in him. I think Rexy came into an un-winnable (is that a word?) situation. He was a high draft pick with the hopes and dreams of all of us riding on his shoulders… then he gets hurt two years in a row… which only grew our desire for him to be our savior. I remember in 2005 when he finally got his chance to play after Kyle started all year… maybe it was my imagination… but the whole team seemed to collectively raise thier heads… everyone seemed to be lifted. So in 2006 he did the worst thing he could have done… blew people out for 5 games! I remember after the Seahawks and Bills games in 2006 thinking, “It is actually happening… we have OFFENSE!” Then of course things started to unwind.
For me… the anticipation of Rex was greater than the actual event. I think we all wanted it so bad for so long… then we were given a little taste… then kicked square in the nuts! I think Rex was just drafted to the right team at the wrong time. Without a stellar O-line and recievers there are very few quarterbacks that are going to live up to our expectations in Chicago. I feel bad that the machine ate Rexy up so bad because he really is a good kid… right attitude… works hard… even with all of the criticism and hate you never heard him making shitty remarks to some reporter or talking-bad about the team. He just admitted he sucked and promised to get better.
So… after getting the sand out of my vag about all of that… I hope he wins the starting job and I hope he has a descent year. We won’t need much from our offense if things go the way I think they will… 10 to 14 points and maybe one or two big plays a game. I would be happy with that.
"I'm not a mean player. You'll notice I never pick on a player who has a number above 30." ~ Mike Ditka
Orton...
...had the unique advantage of having his actual Rookie Season be his actual Training Camp. Grossman has had years to lock down the job, and cannot do it. He’s a wonder in camp, until an actual game situation where he panics when someone is legitimately trying to plant his head in the ground.
Putting these numbers up to an apples to apples comparison is disengenuous. Orton makes headier plays, but might lack the downfield zip everyone who loves Rex loves.
I’ll take Orton. We cannot do worse.
Besides the obvious - Go Irish.
Z. He doesn't need an exclamation point. He is one.
Rex had his chance(s)...
How many years are we going to hear Rex say, “I vow to be better.” “I vow to be the best quarterback.”
Enough is enough.
People keep ripping Orton’s numbers but how many training camps has Orton taken all the reps with the 1st string. NEVER. How many training camps has Rex?
Rex had his chance again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again. Then midway through the season when he is either hurt or sucks so bad that he is sent to the bench that the Bears send in a QB who does NOT have the timing down with the first string to win in the NFL.
Rex had his chance. It should be Ortons turn to get all the training reps with the 1st string and be the starter this year. If half way through the season he isn’t the answer, send him to the bench and put Rex in. At least the Bears will know for sure that next season they need to be much more aggressive with landing a veteran QB and drafting a rookie QB.
We have seen enough of Rex and his promises.
The Tuna
remember how stupid it looked when bill parcells would let tony romo play full games in the pre season. I mean its not like your back up could use those extra reps or something. And it didnt seem to help. Did it
No serioulsy, our first string offense needs to play every minute of every pre season game. I know it sounds retarded at first. But we could use them as sparring partners to build up rex and ortons confidence. We could game plan and beat the living shit out of other teams backups and it would give our offense more time to gel.
What about injuries you say. Whats the worst that could happen six new starters on offense. no wait thats where we are already at. save Kruetz , Garza, Tait and everyone else plays. Orton and Rex needs at least one full game each
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