The New PR Nightmare for Jerry Angelo and Co.
by ChiFan13 on Aug 25, 2008 7:12 AM CDT
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PrintThis is one of the most unreal stories that I have heard in quite some time. For those of you who haven't heard, Chris Williams came out and said that both he and the Bears knew of his pre-existing herniated disc:
An emotional general manager Jerry Angelo said the player's story jibes with everything he and the team have had to say since the offensive tackle went down on the second day of training camp with an injury. Williams had surgery Aug. 6 to repair what head trainer Tim Bream said was a new injury to the same disc, and he will remain on the 53-man roster with hopes of playing in the second half of the season.
It was a risk worth taking for the Bears, who remain high on his prospects, because Williams was a model of durability at Vanderbilt.
"There is a lot of history of players that had this condition that he had at the combine that have played with it," Angelo said. "We were basing it off of the play time. We were basing it off of no symptoms for a period of three or more years. We were comfortable with that. I did use the term wear and tear. There were concerns. But you know what, you could say that for a lot of players at a lot of positions." Bream, who was put on a conference call in an extremely rare move, said the medical work on Williams raised yellow flags not red ones. The common dictation from physicians at the combine was Williams was fine. Williams had a stable herniation that had not given him any problems.
I don't know about the rest of you, but there is a huge logical void here. First, Angelo and Co. stated that they didn't have any knowledge of a pre-existing condition. Then, once Williams comes out and states that they did, an "emotional Angelo" has a teleconference with reporters. No wonder he was emotional...he just got caught in his own lie.
One other issue I'd like to bring up is that Jerry took the risk because he was a model of durability at Vanderbilt. I'm a Texas Longhorns fan, and I watched Cedric Benson rumble through his four years at Texas with nothing more than an ankle sprain. Just because they're durable in college DOES NOT translate into the pros. Football is a violent sport, and if you don't get injured in college, you'll get hurt in the pros, where the game is faster and the hits are harder. In fact, if they are durable in college, unless they're a freak of nature, they're likely to get injured easier in the pros because of all the wear and tear they sustained throughout their college years.
Part of me is furious about this story, because Angelo could have picked a developmental prospect and cemented a possible cornerstone. Instead, he did nothing to shore up the OL, drafted the most "NFL-ready" tackle, then got bit in the ass when the injury he knew was there flared up. The other part is feeling pretty average, because if the Bears don't perform this year, Angelo might be finding himself on the outside of Halas Hall come January.
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Just one thing
Thanks for the information. You guys do a great job of keeping everything going. The only thing I disagree with from the above post is that players who don’t get hurt in college are more likely to get hurt in the pros thing. There’s no way that’s possible. If players do get hurt in college, they must be either unlucky (like a freak accident sort of thing) or be injury prone. When they step up to the next level, those injury prone guys aren’t going to become less injury prone. They’re going to become just as much more likely to get hurt when they play in a more violent game. And pretty much everybody in the NFL is a freak of nature in some ways, so that argument doesn’t really hold weight. Even thought Chris Williams got hurt and Jerry Angelo got caught in a lie, it doesn’t mean that it was completely likely to happen. Chris Williams was blocking in the SEC, which means he’ll be seeing some of the same guys on Sundays that he was blocking on Saturdays.
Am I happy that they drafted a guy with a herniated disc? Hell no. Am I happy they lied about knowing about it. No. But I think them looking like a bunch of fools pretty much covers that one and hopefully will help them get past the whole ‘top secret’ attitude that seems to permeate Halas Hall.
Outside of quarterback,
offensive line is the one position where you’re least likely to get a meaningful contribution from a first year player. The two defining characteristics of offensive line play—super technique and super size—each take several years to develop.
In my opinion, a team is (almost) always better off picking up its offensive linemen coming off their first contracts from some other team. Let the guy do do his apprenticeship on someone else’s dollar, then bring him in and pay him when he’s qualified to contribute.
From this perspective, I wasn’t expecting much this year from Williams in the first pace, so I’m not hugely disappointed he won’t be on the field.
What does bother me though, is that while recovering from back surgury he won’t be able to bulk up in the weight room. Rather than getting bigger and stronger while he learns the intricacies of his position, he’ll be flat on his back getting skinnier and weaker.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
True most of the time
While picking up O-linemen from other teams is almost always a good idea, it’s not true for left tackles. Decent LTs are the rarest commodity in football, and no team will ever allow a good young one to leave. Ever.
This isn't the first timeAngelo's drafted a player with an injury
But… it IS the first time they drafted an injured player on Day 1… with their 1st friggin pick. They knew it… we knew it… and we knew they knew it.
Every damn situation is a PR nightmare with this group. Their complete arrogance pisses me off.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
What about Tommie??
Tommie wasn’t exactly injured on draft day, but the only reason he slipped to the Bears was that he had some minor, and in the eyes of a number of teams, major, injury concerns. He has been a stud for the Bears, but he has been injured a lot.
huh?
In fact, if they are durable in college, unless they’re a freak of nature, they’re likely to get injured easier in the pros because of all the wear and tear they sustained throughout their college years.
What?
Do you have any evidence to back up such an assertion?
Don’t make things up… it damages credibility.
visit the mindful mission
As for the whole injury prone/durability discussion
I’m of the view that the injury prone label is complete bunk. It’s just an easy thing for someone to say about a player in any sport.
Look at Mike Brown… he played in this league for years and was always healthy… and suddenly he runs into some bad luck. Does that make him injury prone? No. Not in my opinion. Grossman was never hurt in college, then he gets to the NFL and suffers some breaks, and everyone is quick to label him injury prone. Is that fair? I don’t think so. After coming back from a broken finger (rookie year vs Washington), a bad knee (from that TD run vs Minnesota), and a broken ankle (St. Louis pre-season), he started every game in 2006.
Most of the time, this stuff is just bad luck. Brett Favre has had a ton a of good luck.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
good luck, I suppose...if you don't count
his addiction to pain killers.
But I take your point, in the words of that great football distiction, favre’s been hurt plenty, just not injured.
On the injury prone thing…there is a (in some circles) accepted statistical/psychological catagory of “accident-prone” that is tied in with a risk-taking brain chemical. While for most people it might be enough to notice there’s an abyss over there…for some, they actually need to be peering over the edge in order to get excited about it.
Not sure how much, if at all, this applies to certain football players spending huge chunks of their careers on the injury list. Getting your spikes caught in the turf doesn’t seem to qualify as extra risky behaviour…but mutiple concussions from getting sacked too many times because you hold onto the ball, waiting, waiting, for your receiver to finally break free…well, that might qualify.
Dum spiro spero! (While there is life, there’s hope!)--Leon Trotsky
Can you back this up with any facts at all?
“Football is a violent sport, and if you don’t get injured in college, you’ll get hurt in the pros, where the game is faster and the hits are harder. In fact, if they are durable in college, unless they’re a freak of nature, they’re likely to get injured easier in the pros because of all the wear and tear they sustained throughout their college years.”
I’m very curious about this statement, because it doesn’t sound true. As tohers have pointed out. Can you elaborate/link?
Besides the obvious - Go Irish.
Z. He doesn't need an exclamation point. He is one.
I'll elaborate
I did a bad job of explaining in the original post. I’ll say right now that I have no stats and I don’t particularly want to go searching for them, but hopefully everyone can listen to my argument first before I get dumped on.
For guys on the OL, DL, and RB especially, the statement I made is true. Cedric Benson ran for Texas for four years, never had a “big” injury. But he got into the pros and managed to break or tear everything in the book. Adrian Peterson had a collarbone injury in college, but like I said, unless they’re a freak of nature, they tend to injure easier in the pros.
No one will doubt that the college game is slower and the hits are bigger in the pros (I hope anyways). Think about the wear, tear, and strain that OL, DL, and RB’s go through on a weekly basis. There is a reason why the NFLPA is fighting so hard for better pensions: Once you’re out of the game, your body is a disaster zone. There are players that come from schools with a good medical/strength & conditioning staff that do just fine, I won’t argue that. But to select someone because they were the picture of durability at their college when you know, for a fact, that they have a pre-existing medical condition, is stupid at best and insanity at its worst.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
Not just the fact that they knew their was a pre-existing injury
But that it was a back injury on a player whose position requires he squat down and put all kinds of pressure on his back. I never heard any analyst say that Williams was injured or that he was prone to this sort of thing or that it hurt his draft stock. The fact that JA kept the lid on this for so long is amazing, and it only makes me distrust him and the organization even more.
by Sam Householder on Aug 25, 2008 12:50 PM CDT reply actions
No analyst said it
but there were reports all over the internet on draft day that many teams took him off their board because of the pre-existing injury.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
Not dumping but...
"I’ll say right now that I have no stats and I don’t particularly want to go searching for them, but hopefully everyone can listen to my argument first before I get dumped on.
For guys on the OL, DL, and RB especially, the statement I made is true. Cedric Benson ran for Texas for four years, never had a "big" injury. But he got into the pros and managed to break or tear everything in the book. Adrian Peterson had a collarbone injury in college, but like I said, unless they’re a freak of nature, they tend to injure easier in the pros."
But this doesn’t explain much if you can’t back it up with facts. It just your opinion based on…Cedric Benson.
I’m really flabbergasted you can make such a statement and then beg off of actually backing it up with some type of evidence. If it’s your opinion, fine. But you really should state it’s so. Otherwise it’s lazy journalism, quite frankly. Big_Low is right about credibility sorry to say. I’d really like to see numbers because I’ll say it IS intriguing, but I think false.
Besides the obvious - Go Irish.
Z. He doesn't need an exclamation point. He is one.
Fair enough
That’s my fault: What I said was my own opinion.
Second, I’m almost positive that there aren’t any stats to back up what I said (in terms of durability from NCAA to NFL. If there are, I want to see them to see if my opinion was correct. And yes, I’m saying that in all seriousness.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
Oh I agree...
…it’s an interesting hypothesis that I’d like to see more of. I decided not to go look up Bruce Matthews college career for instance because he’s a freak of nature and would be the ‘outlier’ in any statistics regarding this.
But about Earl Campbell…
Besides the obvious - Go Irish.
Z. He doesn't need an exclamation point. He is one.
The rest of the 1st round OL
14 Chicago; Williams, Chris OT
15 Kansas; City Albert, Branden OG
17 Detroit ;Cherilus, Gosder OT
19 Carolina; Otah, Jeff OT
21 Atlanta; Baker, Sam OT
26 Houston; Brown, Duane OT
So by knowing he had a hereniated disc in his FREAKING back, how could they rate him higher than all these guys that other teams deemed acceptable 1st round linemen picks? This is a very bad mistake by Angelo and his guys. If anyone at Halas Hall had balls he’d be out on his ass as we speak.
out on his ass
They sure would have a good reason. For being so careless with someone elses money he needs to be accountable to that.
hit him in his earhole
any doctors here?
Does anybody going off the deep end about this subject have a clue what they are talking about? i know nothing about a herniated disc in someone’s back. it sounds bad, sure. but does anyone know if this is a recurring injury, a lifetime and non-fixable problem, etc? I think people are just sort of jumping on the bandwagon of this whole thing. am i happy about it? not at all. but i don’t have 5 different doctors advising me, Angelo and the rest of the staff did. if this is a fixable problem then there is no reason to freak out like this and assume that Williams was a terrible draft pick. if it is not a fixable problem, count me in on the freaking out.
Yeah, Angelo had 5 doctors advising him
But, I’m not so sure I buy anything Angelo says anymore because:
1) He had a doctor on a teleconference, which, as the Sun-Times states, isn’t normal at all.
2) He lied about this “pre-existing condition” to the whole public, which set off this whole firestorm.
3) He made the stupid choice of picking Williams when he could’ve picked any number of O-linemen.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
the article sounded defensive
which is concerning.
i disagree with the 3rd comment: Williams was the best pure left tackle available at the 14th pick. remember, albert had limited time as an left tackle in college and their was going to have to be an adjustment. the bears wanted an nfl ready left tackle and at the 14th pick he had the most value given his college experience and size.
i got fairly into the draft this year top to bottom and i know that most people had williams 2/3 on their boards behind jake long and kind of level with clady. denver took clady and the bears got lucky because they got to choose from 3 lt’s because carolina took stewart.
You're absolutely right
Williams was the best pure tackle when we drafted.
Here’s where I disagree with your thinking:
If Angelo chose to not address the OL except for the draft, it’s an iffy choice at best to pick a player that has a pre-existing condition. I understand that Williams was the best choice where we were, but Angelo has no excuse for the OL this year. He did nothing in the offseason and picked a player that could have been good but also had underlying pre-existing injury problems.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
I'm no doctor but my mom had a herniated disc
Now she isn’t an O-lineman, but she said it hurt a lot and she was laid up for a while but it sounds like they have come a long way and you could only be laid up a couple days and then could start rehab (In Williams’ case) but she’s never had a problem with it again as far as I know. So it’’s kind of a freak thing but I think once its fixed you’re more or less good to go.
by Sam Householder on Aug 25, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Eggs in one basket?
I didn’t have a problem with them picking Williams in the first round. With that said, I had a huge issue with Angelo not adding a guard in free-agency. Why risk everything on one player? Not very smart, and even dumber to try to deceive fans and the media by lying about what they knew. Look at the bright side though. St. Claire has looked great, and Williams wasn’t assured the starting spot. A lot of you guys are posting like Williams’ career is over. Not by a long shot my friends.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
This isn't the only lie going on.
From what I have understood so far, Angelo has insisted that the injury Williams sustained has “nothing to do” with the injury concerns that were brought up on draft day. The funny thing is that the injury is on the same disc that he has had problems with throughout college. Is there such a thing as two different injuries on the same herniated disc? I’m no doctor, but if I had two injuries to the same disc, I would definitely consider the injuries related.
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