Time For Lovie To Drop The Hammer
by Adam T on Sep 22, 2008 1:06 PM CDT
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PrintMuletrain dropped this one in the comments section:
The Country Club atmosphere...
that Lovie created has resulted in a bunch of softies, especially on defense.
To extend on that more there is at least one more who is calling for Lovie to stop babying these players.
Fear is a wonderful deterrent. And the time has come for Bears coach Lovie Smith to put some fear into his team and punish cornerback Charles Tillman, whose absurd personal foul in overtime Sunday effectively cost the Bears a game. Tampa Bay was stopped on third-and-nine from its own 8, facing a punt from the shadow of its goalpost against a special-teams unit known for blocks and returns, when Tillman picked up a dead-ball penalty that gave the Bucs new life.
Coach Smith does have some history here in benching players to make a point, but he hasn't done it in some time. The Bears are not 3-0 because they have made some stupid and careless plays. Last week it was a slightly overthrown ball and a couple of fumbles. This week it was a TD taken away for an INT and a bad play by Tillman.
I don't know if the answer is to fine guys or take away the start, but Lovie needs to crack down on players making these mistakes. Maybe he just needs to run the dumb out of them.
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I'll give you a guarantee...
If Lovie doesn’t throw the hammer down on the defense soon we will get KILLED by the Eagles this week. I am talking worse than that Cowboys game last year.
Fire Ron Turner!!!
Fire Angelo!!
by Sam Householder on Sep 22, 2008 1:20 PM CDT reply actions
With what's happened the last 2 games, I would be shocked if the D doesn't come out strong and actually finish
What scares me more is the Eagles D running over the O-line. While they’ve done an ok job so far, can’t help but think that Jim Johnson’s going to have a big smile on his face all week planning blitz packages for Sunday night.
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
Exactly they got to Rothelisberger
Six times and I know the Steelers O-line is bad but I am scared to think what the Eagles can do to our mediocre at best line, which will in turn lead to more punting leading to the defense being on the field a lot, leading to a tired defense and that leads to another 2nd half meltdown. I am convinced this will be the worst game yet, possibly even the season, it could very well end up 38-7.
Fire Ron Turner!!!
Fire Angelo!!
by Sam Householder on Sep 22, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
And 8 were on Roethlisberger
Not six as I said.
Fire Ron Turner!!!
Fire Angelo!!
by Sam Householder on Sep 22, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm really interested in watching Beekman.
He hasn’t seemed to be a glaring hole so far, although I’ve hardly focused on him. If he begins to show that he can be a solid LG and Chris Williams turns into an above-average LT, I’ll have taken a good thing or two from this season.
Beekman's small...
And so is Garza. And, our lack of size in the middle of the line isn’t exactly helping us on short yardage situations.
Our whole line needs to be re-vamped… with a new philosophy: bigger is better.
Look at Dallas and Philly. They have the two biggest lines in the league… it’s no wonder they dominate the LOS.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
Seriously? Have you not paid attention to Denver and the annual story of
“small, but skilled, linemen lead another "no name” rusher to 1,000 yards."
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
They have a particular blocking scheme that they run to perfection.
That requires the scouts to identify that skill… and the coaching staff to orchestrate a dynamic scheme.
You think we have the peices in place to do that? Seriously. Come on.
Just go out and get a bunch of big, bad a55 maulers, and let them do what they do: dominate with pure size.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
If it were only that easy, no matter what, the scouts have to identify players with actual talent
Just getting a bunch of biggun’s doesn’t solve the problem. Don’t you have a broken heart to mend somewhere?
We have every right to dream heroic dreams. Those who say that we're in a time when there are no heroes, they just don't know where to look.
Ronald Reagan
I wouldn't
They probably aren’t “really trying” right now and are waiting till a few games into the season.
The D looked like shit during the preseason and don’t look much better right now. Our D line is too small
i dont agree with benching peanut
he made a mistake yes. but he was our best player in that game..hands down. lead the team with tackles and was flying all over the place. and oh yeah he got another takeaway.
even with that stupid penalty which by the way could have gone either way, meaning there could have just as easily been double penalities on both teams that could have offset each other. but anyways even with the penalty the d got tampa to a 3rd and 10 and let them convert.
something needs to be done to this team..agreed. but not to peanut, he has been arguably the best player on this team for awhile now.
Just for the records
not starting doesn’t have to mean he acts as the 3rd CB the whole game. You sit him the first play they he can resume full time status. This only works for certain guys, because some people have clauses in their contracts based on starting snaps taken. Not likely the case with Tillman.
What should happen is a guy like Urlacher or Harris or whoever is in charge of the defense/locker room should go in and put forth some new rules. You get a unsportsman like conduct penalty you owe us 20 laps or 10 push ups or you put some number of money to something. I don’t know what type of penalty makes a player think before they do something dumb, but they need to find it and use it. If the players have pride they need to take care of this instead of waiting for the coaches to.
Same thing would help on offense. If Orton wants to be the man, maybe walk in and put down some laws and then proceed to pay up for 2 INTs on the spot regardless of whether they are his fault.
Maybe if you players have the knowledge that if they make a dumb play they will have to do something in that first practice with everybody else watching…I don’t know. I have no idea if this stupid mind stuff actually works, but somebody needs to do something.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
not hands down
For the defense, I’d put Alex Brown pretty far up there. He’s not a sacks guy and never has been, but he’s been making a lot of big disruptive plays.
On offense, for that game only, I’d say it’d be Brandon Lloyd, with Forte a close second…with Forte probably having the best season so far of any player on the team.
Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive. (Wallace Irwin)
why the hell would the bears bench
a guy who made one boneheaded play in the game. its not like he was playing like crap the entire game either. Tillman is a guy we cant afford to lose. if you wanna drop the hammer drop it on Orton. We need to score some points after these turnovers and by points i mean 6 points not 3.
Agreed
Tillman was coming to the defense of his teammates, i don’t know about ya’ll but that’s not soft to me. The penalty hurt but as stated already the D had it’s chances to stop them. If anything needs to be done it’s getting Hillenmeyer in some pass coverage drills running one-on-one w/ Olsen, Clark, Booker, Lloyd, and others. That’s two weeks in a row i’ve seen him get beat for a TD. I liked how Orton performed yesterday, the one int. to Adams for the TD was ugly but his connections w/ Lloyd looked very good. I like the idea of push-ups, after an int. or penalty or fumble directly after the play is blown dead, on the field where every fan sees it happen. I think that would actually help alot.
"URLACHER IS GOD"....."PLAY-MAKERS STAND UP!!!!!"
Again, I don't think anybody
specifically said bench Tillman. It was more a statement that the coaches or captains need to start getting these guys head back in the game. If just one of these stupid didn’t happen we may be sitting here 3-0. There have been too many careless plays the last two games for it to be left alone.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
There is a fine line to all of this...
…and we’re not even close:
- you don’t bench Davies week 3 because of a few drops.
- you don’t bench peanut because he lost his head
I swear, some of you seem to have forgotten that this was a Super Bowl defense 2 years ago, that got ravaged by injuries last year. Lovie’s style of coaching helped get them to that level, and I say ride the horse that got you there.
The problem continues to be lack of time eating drives which is what winds this defense. The one guy who should be scared for his job is Turner, and not a single player. They are showing up.
Besides the obvious - Go Irish.
Z. He doesn't need an exclamation point. He is one.
I am all for Turner losing his job, because he has needed to for some time,
but a lot of this doesn’t fall to him. Some does, but he didn’t make Forte not hold onto the ball or Orton over throw Booker or Olsen fumbling twice or Tillman doing what he did. Those are all on the players. Had these things not happen we win those games. Something needs to be done, whether it is as simple as making them practice harder or longer or having some type of fine or repercussion for continually making a careless play.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
Davis too
He hasn’t been able to come up with the big catch on three different occasions (all huge 3rd downs). He wasn’t the one who threw the ball right to a defender that was 7 feet in front him. I’m not a huge fan of Turner’s but he actually made some really good halftime adjustments by throwing the ball downfield. The only thing I can blame him for was the infamous last series against Carolina.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Every game is full of those IFs...
for both teams. And when the Bears are on the winning side of the outcome in a close game, the losing team is saying the same thing: IF… this, and IF… that.
My point is this: Great teams don’t have to use the word IF, every week. They take advantage of opportunities and slam the door shut on their opponents.
The 2008 Chicago Bears do not have the makings of a great team… and they’re quite a ways from being a good team. How can you dare to line up the offense that we are sending out onto the field, and expect to be a winning team? Wake up guys.
If the Bears we’re 3-0 right now, it would be nice. But, they’re losing these games for a reason: they’re not good enough in the first place.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
didn;t see the second half
The problem continues to be lack of time eating drives which is what winds this defense
but form the sounds of things the defense had plenty of time to rest in the second half.
huh?
The problem continues to be lack of time eating drives which is what winds this defense.
The bears dominated the time of possession until late in the 4th, and even still, after the game, they had an 8 minute advantage in time of possession.
So any excuse made for the defense about being on the field too long is complete and utter BS.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Sep 23, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Problem is
Lovie has created a country-club atmosphere for this defense. I’m interested to see how he changes it.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
Country club atmosphere?
This defense was in a dog fight all day long. Fights and bickering were gonig on all game long. It can be argued that they lost the game because of an over aggressive Tillman. They play an aggressive attacking defense with the “Mug Look” It’s obvious that we are a more aggressive D than any other time under Lovie. Is that because there is a country club atmosphere? Both defenses were gassed. We convert third and 2 in regulation, game is just about over. What do we do, run a naked boot leg with one receiver option which forces kyle to run. Great call, have the slowest guy on the field run for a first down against a Tampa 2 defense known for it’s speed.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on Sep 23, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Not really
Both offenses couldn’t do a thing. Just cause we won the time of possesion doesn’t mean we had time eating drives. Both defenses were tired, the bears just had to go twice in a row late in the game(basically 3 times in a row cause the offense couldn’t convert on a 3rd and 2).
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on Sep 23, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
what i would like to see
is Jamar Williams in for Hillenmeyer
Bradley or Bennett in for Davis
Grossman in for Orton
After the Eagles game of course i don’t wanna see Grossman go against Samuel again…
I second the Davis substitution.
The big NFL playing field is not cut out for small and un-fast wide receivers. Davis’ jitterbug moves are much better suited for the Arena League.
Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive. (Wallace Irwin)
They need another receiver better than Davis, bad.
I think Davis is fine as a third guy. Nothing standout, middle of the pack as far as No. 3 receivers go. And I think Lloyd is showing he’s better than that. Eventually, you’d like to have a “true No. 1” or at least a couple of really good “No. 2’s” (Berrian was one of those). However, If they could get Bradley, Hester, Booker or Bennet to AT LEAST be better than Davis, that would at least be something.
The fact that only one WR on the team, Brandon Lloyd, is better than Davis… it’s a sad, sad affair.
Are you high?
Seriously, Grossman? The WRs have to take most of the blame for all the dropped passes. Orton has made a couple of mistakes this season, but not enough to warrant benching him. Multiply that by 4-5 and you have Rexy’s numbers for the year so far. Did you happen to see how Orton avoided rushers on more than one occasion yesterday and actually picked up yards? There’s absolutely no way Rex can see enough to avoid a blade of grass.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
there have also been situations
where people have been open downfield and orton has been unable to connect with them because of underthrown and overthrown passes where rex could complete some of those with his quick release and arm strength. just one of those deep completions can open up the field and maybe pull back a safety to open up the running game like we did in 2006.
orton...
… has only made a few mistakes this year?
And for a guy who really struggles throwing the ball down field, he can’t afford to make ANY mistakes.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Sep 22, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Hillenmeyer needs to sit
His lack of pass coverage is showing through. Put Williams in and see what he can do, can’t be any worse than Hillenmeyer.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
I don't see why
our WRs can’t be
1. Lloyd
2. Booker
3. Hester
4. Davis
Booker isn’t great but he’s not completely horrible. He should be #2
I just threw up in my mouth a little
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
They got tired.
Lovie coddles these guys. 2nd half in Carolina and 2nd half yesterday, they were tired. Why are these guys out of shape? Hampton was going on and on about this today on the score. He said Buddy Ryan worked him and the other d-line hard in training camp while the offense was taking breaks. This defense is not in shape. They were a step slow in the 4th quarter and OT. That falls on Lovie and Babich.
It does
Not to mention the fact that they were getting worked in the preseason… the moment that happened those guys should have been doing extra work in the weight room and on the practice field.
I really have no confidence in this team at all, thankfully its not a surprise and the baseball season is still interesting for me. The Hawks and the Bulls should be fun to watch too
I'm sorry
but the same people who clamored that were gonna suck this year are not saying, wait, we can be good, we just need to punish our players?
How about not overreacting, falling into the media traps. How about considering that these are grown men and I am sure they’ve discussed what happened and won’t let it happen again. It is not like it was two games in a row were a player got a personal foul penalty that caused momentum to shift.
Instead of being happy that we are in games you are complaining that we lost them. The fans and media need to not be bitter, negative Nancies. Every media in Chicago is pathetic in how they whine about the Bears not doing what they’re supposed to do after the same media trashed the team all preseason.
I am glad yo have no confidance 815Sox. That’s pathetic. We are close to 3-0 and have a few bad things happen. The Chargers are Superbowl picks and 0-2 and I doubt they have the same kind of fan mentality.
A bunch of fair weathered whiners.
You'll get crucified for that post
but you’re right on the money.
For me, I can tell you I’m upset because we were in those games. This potential 3-0 start is something that none of us envisioned, and that’s why I get upset. We should be 3-0.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
He's really not, though.
It’s not like they all had a collective session and said, “Let’s go out and lose in the 4th quarter and overtime.” Twice. (that right there should tell you how wrong he is). They had ample time after the first score in the 4th to say, “Let’s stop these guys”, or how about after Bucs tied it up? They didn’t discuss that in OT?
I had no confidence in this team before the season. I predicted between 4-6 wins. They played their asses off in the first game. I’ve said all along, it’s likely the biggest upset of the entire season… for the whole NFL.
This is a bad team. Criticizing a bad team does not make one a fair-weather fan. Just like criticizing a gov’t doesn’t make one unpatriotic. in fact, the more people realize how bad the team is, the less support it will get. Just like when fans stopped going to games in August and September of 2006, an entire disgruntled fanbase spurs management into action.
No. Having a rosy, shiny “we’re [sic] actually a really good, undefeated-type team, but we were just did kind of bad.” actually hurts the team more. They were lucky to beat the Colts and they were lucky steve Smith was suspended and they were unlucky to lose the last two games. it evens out. This is a 1-2 team and they are right where they should be.
by the Romans?
Yeah, well. Someone has to point out the flaw in some people’s complaints.
Those who get defensive, well, that’s probably because they believe they are being overly emotional. For mike b below, who mentioned this as my post not being analytical about the team…no shiznit. I was simply making a point on fans who post here:
If you (the universal you) want to be the person who says we are going to suck all year, then what is the point in your getting mad when we don’t suck and barely lose games. You can say we lost and we need change (as you can keep whining about or SUCK IT UP and deal with the team we have). But the fact is. We are not losing like the Chiefs. We lost on the road to a Panthers team that came back against the AFC Superbowl favorites. We lost another game, yes, at home, but it was (as I saw it) more of us shooting ourselves in the feet.
To further my point, we’ve been or lead all three games. And people who predicted that we suck and will suck this year are just finding new ways to complain about the team. To me, it just seems overly dramatic. We’re going to suck, but I am mad we lost games.
I don’t like Lovie’s cool demeanor. I don’t like Orton starting. I don’t like losing two f-ing games we should have won. I am not going to think because we almost one that a rainbow is coming, mike b. But I do find this mob mentality sad.
We aren’t getting demolished in any of the games. We aren’t getting manhandled in any way. Our best offensive weapon (though Forte is proving to be a beast) was out for the game and we still almost won. Sure, Tommie Harris only has 3 tackles in 3 games, but when I watched him during snaps it seemed like they were doubling him a lot. No sacks in the game really sucked, but Griese was letting the ball go fairly quickly, and whenever we did pressure. That’s why we got three INTs and a couple more that should have been takeaways. There was pressure.
People can say we had no sacks in 67 passes, but sorry for thinking, they HAD to pass 67 times.
They didn’t have a running game for four quarters. If our d-line can continue to shut down the run like they have this year, then less sacks will not bother me.
I am tired of seeing Adrian Peterson and the Ryan Grants of the league cutting back and taking it to the house. So far this year, the front seven has done an excellent job in shutting down cut back runs.
and to clear up
when I wrote: “To me, i just seems overly dramatic. We’re going to suck, but I am mad we lost games.,” I was saying that is the flaw in people’s complaints.
Don’t breed negativity out of your own negativity. I don’t mind when people have complaints, because I sure as hell have them, but I watch games because I believe we are still going to win.
Call it a rainbow if you like. I have no problems with rainbows. Better than a hail storm.
i hear you
the media is paid too do this unfortunately.
look iam hoping for good things for this team as well, always have but this is a different issue. the inability to close is not just this year. last year 15 out of the 16 games the boys were either tied, in the lead or down by one score going into the 4th and finished 7-9….its just unexceptable.
this year is even worse. look they were up 2 scores late in the game in back to back weeks and lost. ask anyone in football and they will tell you that defensive minded teams want to be in that situation and close it out with 3 and outs and takeaways. it happened in 05 and 06 but it didnt happen last year and this year is not off to good a start.
believe me im positive, hell i campaigned all summer for rex to win the comp and got murdered everytime. its frustrating to see this team loose yes.. but this is not a personel problem totally, its a coaching problem. ive said in a earlier post that lane kiffin should come in and take turners job. there needs to be either a change in the staff or a change in coaching mindset.. but something has to change.
Go cry about it then I guess
First of all the Bears deserved to be “trashed” during the preseason, they fucking sucked.
Second, I see a crap offense with an underperforming (or possibly crap) defense that has blown two leads in the forth. Cap that off with a shit performance in the preseason.
But you are right, I should “be positive”. Who gives a shit how close we were to winning… we have blown two leads in winnable games. We are 1 and 2. I don’t care what the media says.
I’m not falling into any media traps, if you look at my posts on this site I’ve said the whole time that I didn’t think the team will be good this year. It is not that hard to predict. Hopefully they prove me wrong but I’m not counting on it.
I've been predicting 5 wins at the most all season
So far the performance of the team has been disappointing. I’m not going to say “well so and so looked good and we did have the lead for awhile… oh well good game”.
Doesn’t make me any less of a fan frankly, no offense but leave that “be positive” shit at Wrigley
pretty high
to think that my entire post was towards your post. It was for all. The only part that was meant specifically towards you was the one where I called out your sentiments.
I’m not having a pissing contest about “less of fan” crap. I just find, frankly, this type of “I’m a realist and my team is going to suck” type posting to be bad thought.
Anyone who claims to be a realist is confused. Whether they have high or low expectations.
Eh not really
“I am glad yo have no confidance 815Sox. That’s pathetic. We are close to 3-0 and have a few bad things happen. The Chargers are Superbowl picks and 0-2 and I doubt they have the same kind of fan mentality.”
Thats what you said. You took the time out to attempt to call me out individually because my “lack of confidence” is “pathetic”…
This team most likely will suck, its okay though. I will still watch the games but I’m not expecting much. I’m not confused about anything.
I think we would all do ourselves a favor by not expecting too much.
The worst thing that could have happened for me as a fan was winning that indy game. It made my expectations grow out of control.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on Sep 23, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
means absoltely nothing
We are close to 3-0
How about not
pretending to analze when all you’re capable of saying is the same don’t be mean and wait for rainbows bullshit?
yep
you got me, mike b.
I’m waiting for rainbows while you wait for a pile of shit. At least there’s a pot of gold and a cute little leprechaun at the end of my journey.
I don’t “wait” for anything. Including, I don’t “wait” for my team to lose. I also don’t expect them to lose. I just think there’s too much over-reaction in terms of people thinking this means the entire season is going to be like it was in one game.
I happen to think that maybe the players on the team and the coaches might actually make adjustments and have talks about went wrong in this game.
Clamor for change. Change. Change. Sounds like a homeless guy in the South Loop.
I concur.
Yeah, watching them collapse twice now against conference opponents blows, at least we’re seeing flashes, keep in mind, the Vikings still look awful, the Lions are, y’know, the Lions, and I see a schedule rife with opportunity. It’s not ridiculous to look at it positively, and see multiple chances to turn the season around. This team has won a pretty decent number of games over the past 3 years, and there’s no reason to think they can’t at least give Green Bay a run for the division. The East will likely beat each other up and maybe leave a wildcard slot open. It’s not like we can reasonably expect the WC to come out of the West, or even the South.
I'd say the South has just as good a chance as we do
To land a WC. We’ve already lost two games to the south. And we may have not even played the best team from that division.
Although… that WC is going to come from the East.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
They have a decent chance
as much as we or anyone else does. We’re going into the fourth week of the season. The NFL season is far too unpredictable to deal in ultimatums this early. This season has already shown that literally anything can happen. Is it too much to ask you to not take a crap on other people’s optimism? I have no problem getting on here and criticising the play and the coaching and the general management with you, but to get on each other about whether we think there’s a chance or not is completely f’ing stupid.
Whatever. Chill out.
I’m voicing my opinion on the subject you were talking about. It’s not like I’m pissing on your words or something. I’m engaging in a discussion… you know, that’s kind of the point of this place.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
That'd be impressive to see
It’s not like I’m pissing on your words or something.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
good point
I happen to think that maybe the players on the team and the coaches might actually make adjustments and have talks about went wrong in this game.
i mean this defense didn’t have trouble last year, and the end of the year beforeclsoing out games right?
and they didnt have offensive trouble last year either right?
but hey, we’re close to 3-0!
and they didn’t bring back almost the same team right?
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