The Brian Brohm Question
I know there are still questions concerning Kyle Orton's future with the Bears. Some of you have already condemmed him or at least stated that you don't think he is the future.
I was browsing some articles written around the SB Nation and I came across this one by Arrowhead Pride, the Kansas City Chiefs blog. The article concerns the theory that the Chiefs should make a move for Brian Brohm. With Aaron Rodgers playing out of his mind right now, it is fair to say that Brohm will at most finish his rookie contract with the Packers. If the Pack is sure that Rodgers is their man they might consider trading Brohm before his contract is up.
Arrowhead had this to say:
Going into the 2007 season, Brian Brohm was being touted as the "can't miss" prospect for the 2008 draft. He was the son of a former Louisville quarterback (Oscar Brohm) and the brother of another (Jeff, who'd also played in the NFL). He'd averaged 3,000 yards, 17 TDs (and only 5 INTs) per year, with a 66% completion percentage. Under the tutelage of Bobby Petrino, Brohm had turned Louisville into a football powerhouse, with Brohm and Michael Bush leading a potent attack. Basically, Brohm was Peyton Manning with a solid but unspectacular arm and was projected to go in the top 10 of the draft (possibly ending up with his old mentor, Bobby Petrino, in Atlanta). A year later, he was a second round pick, after which he got buried as the 3rd stringer on a depth chart behind a far less touted rookie. So what happened during that time?
I recall from the draft lead up and post that a lot of people were drooling over Brohm. So what is your take?
Comments
I really don't want to draft a QB
unless we have to. What does the free agent market look like. What about Mcnabb. I heard on the radio (AM 1000) that we could have got him last year for 2 draft picks. Why not. I still think there is a small, okay minute window for the bears. I’m still not ready to blow this team up, but that’s pretty much what we’ll do if we draft a guy. I like the Mcnabb idea cause it would solve the problem now. By the time we wait for another young QB to develop the defense will be ancient.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 23, 2008 3:20 PM CDT
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I'd love McNabb
But, we didn’t want to give up 2 draft picks because either
A. We think we’re so smart that we’ll find a QB better than McNabb somewhere else (NOT), or
B. We really, really, really wanted to use those draft picks on players who will inevitably never equal the value of McNabb, or
C. We’re not even aware that McNabb plays QB… because we don’t know what a QB looks like.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on
Sep 23, 2008 5:44 PM CDT
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On the radio Mac, Jurko, and Harry
they agreed with the Bears decision to not go for Mcnabb. They said 2 draft picks was too much. are you kidding me? We are set up to win now. It’s really unbelievable, there must have been more to it. We are right at the top of the NFC if we have Mcnabb.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 9:12 AM CDT
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huh?
Some of you have already condemmed him or at least stated that you don’t think he is the future.
There are people that think that Orton IS the future?
Make a move for Brian Brohm
Why would the Packers be interested in trading Brohm to the Bears?
It is not going to happen.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on
Sep 23, 2008 3:40 PM CDT
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I agree.
They’re not going to directly give him to us, if they think as highly as they did to spend the pick, unless we give up a pretty proven commodity, and we’re not going to give a proven commodity to our #1 rival in the division.
by KDoggers on
Sep 23, 2008 3:49 PM CDT
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why does anything think brohm is any better than what we have?
by Jbasic89 on
Sep 23, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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Gotta be better than Orton
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 23, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
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College numbers
Yes, all draft picks are a risk but his college numbers translate very well to the NFL.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:17 PM CDT
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Translate well to the NFL
I’m basing that off the premise that, historically, the two best indicators of how a college player will play in the pros is # of games started and completion percentage.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:18 PM CDT
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Right.
I was saying all off-season, he’s a can’t miss prospect. Doesn’t mean he’ll be anything better than a Chad Pennington-type (always good, never great), but I’d definitely take a 23-year-old Pennington for the next 10 years over whatever the Bears end up doing instead.
by tyger1147 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:39 PM CDT
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no...
… they probably wouldn’t even give him up for a “proven commodity.”
The Packers have no interest in helping the Bears, or anyone in their division.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on
Sep 23, 2008 3:56 PM CDT
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we can trade them a #1...
trade our 1st round pick (Grossman) for their second round pick, that seems fair..
by lindemrm on
Sep 23, 2008 4:32 PM CDT
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well if you want him now
too bad he wasn’t available when we were drafting last year
what’s that?
by mike b on
Sep 23, 2008 4:07 PM CDT
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I'm kind of over that. Forte is good enough.
That’s the problem w/ this front office, they make one great decision (Devin Hester as a 2nd rnd pick) for every 1,383,485 bad decisions (Devin Hester as a WR)
Although…
Brohm + Charles + Caldwell > Forte + Bennet + Harrison
For this year? Nada.
For the 3 years down the road? I think so, but we’ll see.
by tyger1147 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:37 PM CDT
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Marc Bulger
was just benched….i bet he is pissed and prob would like to seek a trade or outright relese during next years offseason… bulger would look great in chicago blue.
by SuperBowlXX on
Sep 23, 2008 4:16 PM CDT
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They wouldn't do it
Because of the cap hit they would take.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:16 PM CDT
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I would love to have this guy, one of the most underrated
I think he just signed a big contract though.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 23, 2008 4:26 PM CDT
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Not a big contract
He was taken early in the second round the price is reasonable.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:17 PM CDT
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From Espn
Bulger, 31, has been the starter since 2002, stepping in when Warner was sidelined by injuries. He became the highest-paid player in franchise history after signing a six-year, $65 million contract extension on the first day of training camp in 2007
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by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:20 PM CDT
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Thought you were talking about Brohm
But Bulger, yes would be enticing for the Bears. However, they wouldn’t/couldn’t move him due to salary cap reasons, no viable replacement, etc.
Gotta wonder about a guy who just got benched in favor of someone approaching 30 and has missed significant time in 2 out of the last 3 years (assuming he stays benched, make that 3 out of 4 years).
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 6:27 PM CDT
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Jeff George, as one could guess, has trouble communicating effectively.
He was apparently replying to someone.
by tyger1147 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:39 PM CDT
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i see, i see, my mistake
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by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 10:49 AM CDT
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no reason we can't have both
let’s trade Grossman straight up…
by lindemrm on
Sep 23, 2008 4:28 PM CDT
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I said
Go for the Best QB next draft
Honestly, I don’t really see Orton or Rexy being anything better then average and that is pushing it. Time to get serious and finally draft a legit QB. How long has it been? One could argue Jim Mcmahon (in fact I would)
by 815Sox on
Sep 23, 2008 5:22 PM CDT
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I'm not a huge stats guy.....
or a Mcmahon hater for that matter, but look at Rex’s numbers vs. Jimmy Mac’s in their respective superbowl seasons. The numbers are astoundingly in favor of Rexy. Rexy had 23 TD’s w/ no offense, Jimmy had i think 15. Also the passing yardage isn’t even close. I think Rexy doubled Mcmahon’s total. Again, with no WP34 and/or Gault and Mckinnon. Berrian was the biggest threat, he’s probobaly just as good as Gault. Jimmy also had a crazy offensive line. Walter only had about 30 carries more than t. jones so don’t give me the “all they did was run” argument.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:29 PM CDT
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Interesting and point taken
One got it done and the other didn’t… but, McMahon was much more consistent in his career (despite alot of injury). Rex did good in the SB run but what has he really done since then? Flashes of good play, but usually the rest was crap.
The problem with Rex is not skill or talent, its mental. He just cannot get it done and is not very good under pressure.
by 815Sox on
Sep 23, 2008 5:35 PM CDT
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McMahon wasn't consistent
He benefited from the greatest defense ever. So did Rex.
McMahon started more than 10 games twice in his career with Chicago. That’s the definition of inconsistency IMO.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 6:34 PM CDT
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Those defenses were two of the best in the history of the NFL.
I’m not counting on that again anytime soon. A good organization can do better.
by tyger1147 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:41 PM CDT
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Gotta disagree
Grossman’s numbers were not good in the Super Bowl season. 56% completion percentage and 20 TDs hurt his team more than he helped. They definitely won in spite of Rex “Fuck it I’m going deep” Grossman.
by primetime 07 on
Sep 23, 2008 6:32 PM CDT
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I'm pretty sure the league has gotten better
but that’s not my point. And in no way am i saying he’s better than the punky QB. I’m just saying Rexy isn’t as bad as he’s made out to be. He was still so young and inexperienced that superbowl year. He showed flashes of greatness. I just think we should’ve stayed with him and def. not given orton the job. He’s making the same bone headed mistakes as grossman, but more importantly, he is not the future. If ur gonna take Rexy out at least put in the rook.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 23, 2008 5:40 PM CDT
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I’m just saying Rexy isn’t as bad as he’s made out to be.
he is as bad as the numbers say.
He showed flashes of greatness
derek anderson also showed flashes of greatness.
out at least put in the rook.
what rook? the one we didn’t draft? no point in putting hanie out there.
by mike b on
Sep 23, 2008 7:44 PM CDT
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So play Orton?
Seriously? The points you make in defense to my comments are debatable, but playing Orton? I know Orton doesn’t have the skill of Rex. I know that I’ve seen Orton do the same mistakes as Rex. Why play him?
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 9:21 AM CDT
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It looks like this topic has spiralled into a whole new one.
Ur right, you never did. I initially was just adding to someones post about Jim Mcmahon. I took offense to your post because I assumed you were in favor of Orton. I’m really just jaded with the whole Orton starting deal. The whole finding a new QB freaks me out cause I can’t go threw anymore QB growing pains. Any QB that is being pressured is gonna be less productive. Rex can make any throw given the time to do so, I’ve seen too many bear QB that couldn’t even do that. I don’t care if I don’t have a stud at QB, they are hard to come by. We should have invested in a more soild O-Line and things would have been fine.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 10:40 AM CDT
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I've also seen Rex made some absolutely stupid mistakes
So please don’t play the ‘Orton makes the same mistakes as Rex’ card.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on
Sep 24, 2008 10:09 AM CDT
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Of course Rex makes bad mistakes, that's supposedly why the bears put in Orton.
But if Orton does the same stuff, what good is he?
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 10:41 AM CDT
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No for Brohm
I don’t think we should make a move for Brohm he was placed third on the depth chart behind Matt Flynn. And Flynn is terrible. Just wait and get Sam Bradford if he comes out next year.
by chase17 on
Sep 23, 2008 9:26 PM CDT
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?
That’s not gonna happen. He’s a sophomore.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on
Sep 23, 2008 9:56 PM CDT
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But
Bradford’s a redshirt so he has been in college for 3 years. Plus his whole offensive line will be graduating after this year why would you stay in college just to break in a O-line
by chase17 on
Sep 24, 2008 7:39 AM CDT
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That doesn't matter
That has no meaning whatsoever.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on
Sep 24, 2008 9:47 AM CDT
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depth chart
Brohm is a rookie. They knew he wasn’t going to start. His place on the depth chart is pretty irrelevant, and being third isn’t that unusual for a rookie, even a good one.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on
Sep 23, 2008 10:06 PM CDT
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it doesn't matter
You can tell little from where teams place their rookie QBs on the depth chart.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on
Sep 24, 2008 8:24 AM CDT
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This may be kinda crazy... but worth a shot
I like the Marc Bulger idea. Give him an O-line (Bears line is better than the Rams, which isn’t saying much) and ya never know, he may be able to win another Super Bowl and another Super Bowl MVP while he is at it.
Waiting for a rookie QB next year or the year after is the worst idea ever for this team… sorry guys. I mean Sam Bradford? Maybe in the 2010 draft? Even if the Bears drafted Mathew Stafford, Tim Tebow, Curtis Painter, or Mark Sanchez next season there are no sure things. I mean ask the teams who relied on Alex Smith, David Carr, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, ummm… Rex Grossman if they’d wait for a 1st round QB to save there franchise. Don’t get me wrong, it works out on occasion, but few and far b/w. This defense isn’t getting any younger.
Take the sure thing, a good veteran who needs a change of scenery. Then draft a rookie and let them grow under him.
by sirus19x on
Sep 23, 2008 10:11 PM CDT
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Absolutely, right on the money.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 9:24 AM CDT
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When did Bulger win a Super Bowl?
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on
Sep 24, 2008 12:33 PM CDT
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Ha ha - totally read right past that part
“Take the sure thing, a good veteran who needs a change of scenery. Then draft a rookie and let them grow under him.”
that was what i meant. I guess that wouldn’t make him absolutely right huh? my bad.
Crown their ass
by jeffgeorge88 on
Sep 24, 2008 2:58 PM CDT
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my bad....
Didn’t mean to put “another”, that was Kurt Warner. He was a two time Pro Bowler! Better? lol
by sirus19x on
Sep 25, 2008 8:12 AM CDT
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Drafting a QB
If we draft a QB, we should plan on sitting him for his first two years regardless of what happens on the field. We’ve had numerous examples of what happens when a QB starts early on and isn’t given enough time to prepare (Joey Harrington, David Carr, Alex Smith…). However, look what happens when a QB has time to sit and learn without pressure (Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady). Yeah, there are exceptions like Peyton for the first group and many examples from the second.
But the QB position is the most important one and the best time to draft a QB is when you don’t need one. That way there is time for him to grow and make a smooth, healthy transition. That’s the best bet for any QB to make it. So yeah, we need a QB. But if we draft him, we need to shelve him for 2 years minimum.
by bs1220 on
Sep 24, 2008 12:00 AM CDT
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You also have Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger...
Brady came in during the first half of his second season. You don’t “shelve” QB’s just to do it. That’s stupid.
by tyger1147 on
Sep 24, 2008 11:35 AM CDT
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Manning
He’s an exception because he just is. Tom Brady sat for a year and then he was ready. So he still sat. You have far more examples of supremely talented QBs being drafted but thrown into the fire before they’re ready. I said there were exceptions, but the vast majority of the evidence is on my side here.
If you want to talk about Manning, Ryan Leaf needs to come into the picture as well. The reason you sit your rookie QB is because 99% of the time, they aren’t ready to shoulder the load mentally or emotionally. Manning was ready, so the Colts made the wise move in starting him. Leaf wasn’t. Remember, Leaf was in the debate with Manning as far as who was more talented, and many said Leaf. The issue was that he wasn’t ready to shoulder the load that was placed on him from day 1.
I’m not saying shelve a QB just to do it. I’m saying bench him so he has time to learn the system. Especially with college offense transitioning to the spread offense, QBs aren’t ready to come in and handle the load. The transition is getting harder, not easier.
There are seven teams starting QBs that are over 35. Why? Because experience is critically important. Who is more talented? David Carr or Gus Frerotte? Harrington is clearly more talented. He’s out of the league now. Why? Because he didn’t have time to learn. He had to learn on the job and the NFL QB position is hard enough to handle without being hit by 300lbs linemen at record rates.
Like I said, before starting a rookie QB, several factors need to be taken into account. Is he ready mentally? Is he ready emotionally? Does he understand the offense? Is our line able to protect him? If the answer is yes to those four, like Manning, then he should start. However, our line won’t be in a position to protect a rookie QB (they need more protection than veterans) for another year or two. Also, as I mentioned earlier, college systems aren’t doing any favors to their QBs. Sure, they put up gaudy numbers but they aren’t prepped as well for the jump ot the NFL.
by bs1220 on
Sep 25, 2008 10:22 AM CDT
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Hell, technically....
you could count Orton winning the games he won as a rookie, though, y’know, they kinda won in spite of him.
by KDoggers on
Sep 24, 2008 5:15 PM CDT
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you do realize...
Everyone DOES realize that Brian Brohm (GB’s 2nd round pick) is behind Matt Flynn (GB’s 7th round pick) on Green bay’s depth chart, right?
Why would we want to lose draft picks on a Qb so bad that he couldn’t beat out a SEVENTH round pick for the 2nd String spot?
How is that supposed to help us?
(especially considering he’d be a developmental guy who wouldn’t be ready for at least 2 years, probably more.
by HesterSteals1st on
Sep 25, 2008 12:11 AM CDT
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A couple of reasons Brohm might be 3rd string
- the Pack wanted to take some pressure off of Rodgers, so they listed Brohm third since he was taken in the higher round.
Brohm was hurt in camp and was not able to practice completely, so Flynn by nature of being there longer got the 2 spot.
Maybe Brohm either needs a little longer to pick up the play book or maybe the Packers offense is closer to what Flynn ran in college than Brohm, so he picked it up a bit quicker.
When did Brohm sign his contract as compared to Flynn?
I don’t know if any are valid in this situation, but it doesn’t have to be he is a worse QB than Flynn and they are both rookies. His status hasn’t plummeted that fast.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by WCG on
Sep 25, 2008 8:58 AM CDT
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i disagree
I don’t think teams at the NFL level play a lot of games with spots on the depth chart. There’s precious few spots as is, so they lack the luxury of mixing psychologicol effects on the #1 or playbook aptitude.
If you need further assurance though, I have a good friend who follows the Pack as closely (if not moreso) than I follow the Bears, and he told me that Brohm has sucked so hard in OTA’s, Training Camp, and practice that it’s almost funny.
***One more point to make on why I disagree with your reasons- Brohm was selected high enough that they wanted him to legitimately COMPETE with Rodgers for the starting job. That team is by no means perfect and there were still a lot of valuable players on the board. You really think they wanted to take pressure OFF of Rodgers? Any starter is going to have a ton of pressure on them anyway.
I assure you that Green Bay was HOPING he would come in and outshine Rodgers. Too many good quarterbacks is an AWESOME problem to have in the NFL.
The reason he’s 3rd string is the same reason i didn’t want him on the Bears even before the draft.
He simply isn’t very good. Our QB situation will not be helped by picking up more shitty QB’s.
by HesterSteals1st on
Sep 25, 2008 9:35 AM CDT
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Firstly
I was not offering these reasons as why Brohm was 3rd, he may just suck. I’m just saying there is a chance that there is a reason that isn’t Brohm sucks.
And if you don’t think NFL coaches and GMs aren’t moving people around for psychological reasons you haven’t been watching much football. Players get benched or dropped down on depth charts all the time in an effort to spark a team. QBs who are playing decent are benched when the team isn’t winning, just to try to get a boost.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by WCG on
Sep 25, 2008 9:49 AM CDT
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different.
Benching the starter of n ineffective to to start a spark is Vastly different that moving around the backups to play Freud with the starters.
In any case, I don’t see why we’re so hard on Orton already. He may have started as a rookie but he was playing an abbreviated version of the playbook. He was a developmental guy when we got him and he’s developed a bit, but we’re only 3 games into the season.
He’s only made the one really bad mistake (the first pick was just a good AND Lucky play by Rudd).
Considering that he’s got a whole cast of receivers that would be nothing better than a #3 W on most other teams, I don’t see why expectations are sky-high.
by HesterSteals1st on
Sep 25, 2008 11:27 AM CDT
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