Chicago Bears QB
by Dane Noble on Jan 7, 2009 10:19 AM CST
39 comments
Of all the discussions going on about our coaching staff, QB, WR, DLine, etc., it seems everyone is on board with the focal point needing to be OLine. Why bring in a QB if we can't give him protection? Why bring in better WR's if we cant give the QB time to throw the ball? The default answer to a lot of problems is our Offensive Line.
So, let's assume for a moment that Chris Williams gets healthy and starts, we sign a FA lineman that will start, and we get a good lineman in the draft that can start. Outside of the tight ends, that is a 60% overhaul of the OLine.
Let's assume we have a couple of our own receivers step up, maybe to a good #2 production level. We draft another #2 caliber guy, and maybe score a FA WR that can be productive. So that would give us a decent set of receivers.
All of these moves are a genuine possibilities, but to get to my question, let's assume they happen. So, we shore up our OLine and WR positions...
Now, what will we do at QB? Will Kyle be the starter? Will we bring in a FA? Will we draft someone?
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Considering Jerry A. has alluded to bringing in competition,
It won’t be that simple.
Residence: Portland, Oregon Pro Team: Da Bears NCAA Football: LSU Baby!! Make sense?
by Dane Noble on Jan 7, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Angelo can talk all he wants
but there are maybe one or two QBs out there that are clearly better than Orton. If he doesn’t go after them, doesn’t want to pay them or just gets out bid then that means we bring in a Chris Simms kind of guy. That doesn’t really equal competition. Kyle has years in the system, so the new guy has to clearly have a better skill set and I don’t think you can 100% say that Simms or McCown or whoever else the next tier of guys will be do.
It looks like McNabb will stay in Philly. Unless AZ’s opinion of Lienart has changed they will make an attempt to keep Warner. The Pats are going to either keep Cassel or make somebody pay a ton for him. That doesn’t leave much left. Jeff Garcia or Kerry Collins may be the best options, but we have no idea if they will be available or if they want to come here.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I kindof put Warner, Garcia, and Collins all in the same boat...
They might, MIGHT, have a couple of years left, but would we even want to bring in someone knowing that we might only get a season out of them?
Don’t get me wrong, I have loved watching these guys play over the years, especially Warner and Garcia, but I see them being at the end of their careers. Same as Farve.
Residence: Portland, Oregon Pro Team: Da Bears NCAA Football: LSU Baby!! Make sense?
by Dane Noble on Jan 7, 2009 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Warner or Garcia... 3 years too late.
.. and how many times were we unable to get 1 yard when we needed it? How many times were we stopped at the goal line? Nothing on the offense will improve until with upgrade the o-line.
by samurai_ewok on Jan 7, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget the OL, check the original post. Assuming that we do a major overhaul
what do you think about QB. Assume the line is fixed. That is what GeauxBears is discussing.
Kick it to me... I'm open!
by #23 on Jan 7, 2009 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the reason is you get those guys for 2-3
in the meantime you draft a QB. Warner, Orton and rookie or Warner, Hanie and rookie if you don’t settle on Orton and then your guy has 2-3 years to develop before you have to use him. Then you only need those guys 2-3 years.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More competition needed
I agree we need some competition, and I’m fine with bringing Warner in as backup/mentor.. it’s just that I believe our main problems on O start with the line.
by samurai_ewok on Jan 7, 2009 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never happen
Warner is not looking for a backup role, so unless nobody gives him a shot I don’t see it working out that way. You bring in Warner because you think you are close, not to back someone up. He is a gun for hire at this stage.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
angelo made reference
to “recycled qbs”…. and with that in my mind, I believe that ortons true competition might come in Rex Grossman.
I know its crazy, but as you guys have stated already, unless its a proven veteran with a superior skill set, orton wont really be threatned.
In my opinon, the qb comp was close this year, albeit slightly rigged, and if rex is given enough reason to stay he might. I know it sounds crazy, but looking at whats going to be available and what other holes this team has, it might not be a bad option. There are no rules that the competition has to be over in one training camp…open it up again and see who comes out on top.
by rahulsriram on Jan 7, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
Grossman has to be tired of Chicago. There will be a few teams that express interest in him as a backup. He’d be better off going somewhere else to try and revive his career.
I think Garcia or Simms are the most likely candidates.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 8, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Angelo's only talking about QB
to deflect the story away from the piss poor group of WRs and lineman he assembled.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
He is basically throwing out a smoke screen to deflect media people from trying to talk a bunch about bringing in WR’s that he has no intention of getting. That way the fans won’t be disappointed that it didn’t happen.
Or he is being super clever and wanting to make a move on a WR and make other GM’s think we’re not going to make a move and then steal someone away.
Kick it to me... I'm open!
by #23 on Jan 7, 2009 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I think what's happening right now at Halas Hall is a disaster
And within two years, everyone will be gone.
We’re drafting like crap… still can’t settle the QB position (the most important position on the field), and hiring/firing the wrong coaches, because of nepotism.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We draft
defense well.
And not being able to draft QB and WR is nothing new in Chicago, so why should that change?
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? We draft defense well? That's an illusion. Stop fooling yourselves.
Here’s every draft since ‘04 (Lovie’s first draft). We’ve drafted 22 defensive players in Lovie’s tenure through 5 drafts. Only three of those 22 players (Tommie Harris, Corey Graham, and Kevin Payne), finished last season as starters on our defense. And Kevin Payne sucks.
2008
1 1 14 14 Chris Williams T Vanderbilt
2 2 13 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane
3 3 7 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt
4 3 27 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas
5 4 21 120 Craig Steltz DB LSU
6 5 7 142 Zack Bowman DB Nebraska
7 5 23 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State
8 7 1 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State
9 7 15 222 Chester Adams G Georgia
10 7 36 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State
11 7 40 247 Kirk Barton T Ohio State
12 7 41 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas
2007
1 1 31 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami (FL)
2 2 30 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan
3 3 30 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois
4 3 31 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford
5 4 31 130 Josh Beekman G Boston College
6 5 30 167 Kevin Payne DB Louisiana-Monroe
7 5 31 168 Corey Graham DB New Hampshire
8 7 11 221 Trumaine McBride DB Mississippi
9 7 31 241 Aaron Brant T Iowa State
2006
1 2 10 42 Danieal Manning DB Abilene Christian
2 2 25 57 Devin Hester WR Miami (FL)
3 3 9 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma
4 4 23 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State
5 5 27 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama
6 6 26 195 J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma
7 6 31 200 Tyler Reed G Penn State
2005
1 1 4 4 Cedric Benson RB Texas
2 2 7 39 Mark Bradley WR Oklahoma
3 4 5 106 Kyle Orton QB Purdue
4 5 4 140 Airese Currie WR Clemson
5 6 7 181 Chris Harris DB Louisiana-Monroe
6 7 6 220 Rodriques Wilson DB South Carolina
2004
1 1 14 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma
2 2 15 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington
3 3 15 78 Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State
4 4 14 110 Nathan Vasher DB Texas
5 4 16 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland
6 5 15 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh
7 5 16 148 Craig Krenzel QB Ohio State
8 7 14 215 Alfonso Marshall DB Miami (FL)
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say that is some pretty good production in the late rounds
They don’t have to be starters to make them a good pick.
You also cannot straight up discount last year’s draft and also Jamar Williams. They are in line.
I’ll agree maybe we don’t draft the top of the line guy, but we do get good players in here.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU WANT STARTERS!
We’ve got 3 starters out of 22 draft picks. Doesn’t matter what round they’re selected in. Wake up. That’s pathetic.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK... I'll revise and call
Vasher and Dvoracek starters too. However, both of them were benched for other guys this year.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Harrison, Tank, and Chris Harris
They all started for us at some time. Tank and Harris are starters on other teams so they have talent. Harrison is only a year old and I was impressed with what he gave us as a third round pick in his first season.
Kick it to me... I'm open!
by #23 on Jan 7, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know you want starters
but drafting a guy in the 6th and 7th round you are taking big time shots in the dark. To get a solid contributor on ST or as a backup is still good drafting.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter what round they were selected in....
for the big picture of this conversation.
Bottom line, one of the main reasons our defense has declined: bad drafting.
We’ve drafted three DTs to play along Tommie Harris, and neither of them have proven to be good enough.
We’ve drafted 5 LBs to succeed Hunter Hillenmeyer, and none of them were good enough… and only one of them (Jamar Williams) is on the roster.
We’ve drafted 4 DEs to find a pass rush, and only one of them is on the roster (Anderson)
We’ve drafted 4 Safeties to play next to Mike Brown, and traded away the only guy who was good enough.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
manning at safety has barley been given a chance. Mcgowan can’t stay healthy.
I stick with expecting late rounders to be starters is expecting too much.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 7, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
he sucked at safety in 06… need I remind you about Reggie Wayne?
He sucked at safety in 07… and he sucked at safety in 08.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tank Johnson is not a starter.
He’s the back-up in Dallas… and he’s a buffoon, who’s talent was simply over-hyped by the Halas Hall propaganda machine. You haven’t heard a single thing about him on the football field since… because he’s not an impact player.
Harrison remains to be seen…
Chris Harris was a good football player, who we decided to trade. We’re still trying to replace him. In fact, we’ve tried Adam Archuletta, Brandon McGowan, Kevin Payne, and Craig Steltz. And neither of those guys are the answer. So give them credit for drafting Harris, and take it away for mis-evaluating his worth.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no...
… they were both benched because of injuries.
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Jan 7, 2009 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vasher was benched for Graham way early in the season
And Dvoracek was getting outplay by Anthony Adams all year, and finally “replaced” when he got hurt. Dvoracek’s poor performance was discussed weekly on the talk shows, nobody could understand why Adams wasn’t starting ahead of him.
I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008
by SackMan on Jan 7, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming
the O-line is solidfied with some good talent and they pick up a good #1 option at WR, give me Grossman. I know that might sound a bit ridiculous but think about it. Grossman was a beast in early 06 and that type of QB play was great to watch. What was working? He had a running game that really opened up the play action, he had time to throw, and he had a deep threat.
We already know Forte is an animal and with a solid O-line, he’ll be even better. That will open the play action again for Grossman. Hester is no doubt a deep threat and everyone knows Grossman throws the deep ball pretty well. Grossman sucked ass when he was pressured. If the O-line is strong, he doesn’t worry about pressure.
I’m not really a Grossman fan. I think he kind of got a raw deal, but a lot of it was deserved. But there’s no denying that he was very good in the early part of 06. I think Grossman could be very good, and he’s shown he can be, if he had the right personel and this post is assuming he would have that. Factor in the Bears actually learn to utilize the 2 TE set and I think the Bears could be pretty dangerous under those circumstances.
Remember, this is pure fantasy because we all know the Bears won’t spend the money necessary to make it happen.
by McRipper on Jan 7, 2009 3:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I sort of agree with your perspective.
Rexy is one of those guys who can play like a weathered veteran one week and play like an antsy high schooler the next. I never bought in much to the Good Rex/Bad Rex idea, considering his play, as you stated, was greatly influenced by the players’ performance around him. He does not do well under pressure. Period. But when given time to get comfortable, he gets in a zone.
Orton does better under pressure, like most every other QB compared to Rexy, but if given a shored up OLine who can provide protection, the Sex Cannon might be able to be productive once again.
Residence: Portland, Oregon Pro Team: Da Bears NCAA Football: LSU Baby!! Make sense?
by Dane Noble on Jan 7, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, by the way, for staying on topic! :)
Residence: Portland, Oregon Pro Team: Da Bears NCAA Football: LSU Baby!! Make sense?
by Dane Noble on Jan 7, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we do all the things you said
We might as well just stick with Orton. I don’t think many people have a problem with the QB, they just have a problem with the people around him that are making the offense look bad.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
by thecoolest on Jan 7, 2009 4:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Again,
Jerry A. talked about competition… that doesn’t exactly translate into “just doing the same thing again”
Residence: Portland, Oregon Pro Team: Da Bears NCAA Football: LSU Baby!! Make sense?
by Dane Noble on Jan 7, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the options at QB are limited
and not really all that appealing. I think the Bears need to bring in the best option they can get and look at drafting a guy. Throw Orton and the Vet into competition and see what happens.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 8, 2009 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is Bears management speaking, though. I give it the same amount of credibility as I do Loviespeak.
by Spongie on Jan 9, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will give JA
credit for at least publically saying that QB was a problem. That is a far cry from the past 5 years.
If next season we start Orton and he hasn’t improved there will nobody to blame but JA. He called it, it was up to him to do something about it.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
by Adam T on Jan 10, 2009 7:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
great point about him accepting responsibility…
I don’t know that an off season qb competition allows Orton to show us anything more than he has in the past. He has been “competing” against rex for last couple of years… i dunno how JA can call out Orton the way he did, if starting an improved Orton is an acceptable to him. Then again I think he was wrong to call him out in the first place, not because orton is so good, but I don’t think he lost games for us
by No It All on Jan 10, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The QB competition that Angelo talks about
is three years too late.
In three years, Angelo will campaign to the media that he needs a #1 receiver and it starts there.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Jan 10, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, they can't address QB
They have too many other holes. D-Line, WR, Safety, CB.
Orton is a serviceable QB. At the end of the day, he’s capable of managing a game and with it all on the line he’ll probably win you more games than he’ll throw away.
I am NOT however saying he’s the long term answer. Just shore up some of the other problems then worry about QB maybe in 1-2 years.
by mjw54 on Jan 8, 2009 4:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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