An Answer To an Open Letter
by GeoMak on Oct 20, 2009 11:37 PM CDT
103 comments
Don't waste your time writing 'letters.'
Just study your Bear history.
1982: George Halas hires Mike Ditka as HC, retains Buddy Ryan as the DC and the Bears draft Jim McMahon.
1983: George Halas dies. Supposedly on his deathbed, he says "Anyone but Michael (meaning anyone but grandson Michael McCaskey to take over HIS Bears)."
Michael McCaskey DOES take over the Bears as President (so much for deathbed wishes).
1984-1985: Bears begin to dominate the NFL . . . and Mike McCaskey plays head games with HC Mike Ditka with regards to a contract extension.
1986: Bears win the Super Bowl XX in New Orleans.
AFTER the Bears won that Super Bowl two things happened:
1. Mike McCaskey (who NOBODY on the team could stand) walked around like HE was the reason the Bears won it all. Really. It's true.
2. Mike McCaskey started to get rid any and all who were part of bringing the Bears to NFL dominance (like GM Jerry Vanisi and then later Mike Ditka, among many others (players, coaches, front office)).
Once that was accomplished it was on with the "Michael McCaskey Show' in the Windy City.
A man who had NO BUSINESS running an NFL team was given the keys to the Chicago Bears.
This is roughly akin to the parents giving the house keys to son Joel (Tom Cruise) in the movie "Risky Business' (which coincidentally was partially shot in Lake Forest IL, home of the Chicago Bears).
And the rest, they say, is history. After firing Ditka, the 'young genius" Mike McCaskey replaced him with Dave Wannstedt. Wannstedt WAS the hot coaching candidate at that time after riding Jimmy Johnson's coattails in Dallas. Heck, even the NY Giants were interested in Wanny to replaced the ineffective Ray Handley. So that tells you something.
But see, Wannstedt wanted control over player personnel (even though he had done NOTHING in his NFL career to show he was worthy of that position).
The Giants told him to get lost. QUICKLY! Our man McCaskey told him to sign on the dotted line.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
Incompetent ownership. PURE & SIMPLE.
Want proof? The two teams with the longest championship droughts are the Chicago Cubs (100 + years) and the Chicago/St. Louis/Arizona Cardinals (60+ years).
The Cardinals have LONG been considered to be one of the worst examples of ownership in the NFL.
And they were in the SuperBowl in 2008 (just like the Bears in 2006).
The above example regarding the Cardinals is there to cut off any talk that "Hey, were can't be that bad. We were in the SB a years ago." BIG DEAL. Even the woeful Arizona Cardinals recently made it there.
THAT'S not ENOUGH!
The simple fact is this: The Chicago Bears, founded by George Halas, are one of the original and greatest teams in the history of the NFL. And (unfortunately) through DNA, are saddled with the McCaskey's as owners. An ownership group who followed up the Ditka/Ryan Super Bowl regime with the likes of these three HC's: Dave Wannstedt, Dick Jauron and Lovie Smith. Sorry.
And MOST importantly, have COMPLETELY failed in understanding one simple, yet CRITICAL, fact.
The #1 job of a HC is to get the very best out of his players, either through scheme (think, say Bill Belichick) or through motivation( think, say Bill Parcells).
Anyone who knows ANYTHING about football at the NFL level knows that Mike Ditka was able to get the very best out of his players, through motivation (Dan Hampton called Mike Ditka the best motivator he had ever been around).
You would think (LOL) that the McCaskey's actually figured that fact out . . .considering that Mike Ditka coached THEIR team. You'd think, wouldn't ya?
Has anyone EVER accused guys like Wannstedt, Jauron and Lovie as being able to get the most out of their players? I didn't think so.
Meanwhile, one of the greatest Bears of all, a man who has shown the ability to get the most out of his players, currently is the HC for the hated S.F. 49ers. One Mike Singletary.
That's the SAME Mike Singletary that was turned down for a job back in 2003 by the McCaskeys.
Don't write letters. Just deal with reality and accept it. The Bears are NOT terrible (actually they are pretty good). And (most importantly) they are NOT GREAT! Nor, will they likely ever be great.
Why? They have some excellent players and some very good coaches (as do most teams). They also have incompetent ownership. Pure and Simple.
Acceptence. I think it's one of the 12 steps. And it's a beautiful thing. Am I happy about the fact that the McCaskeys own the Chicago Bears? Absolutely not. Do I understand the fact that they do because George Halas has a daughter named Virginia. Yes. It's a 'Family Thing.'
Have I accepted the fact that the Bears will probably NEVER reach their potential because they are owned and operated by those same McCaskey's?
Yes I have. I made my peace with that one a long time ago.
SO SHOULD YOU!
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Wish I could but it's hard.
True. We went from having the father of the NFL for an owner to a $#@& like Mike McCaskey et al. I’d love to see the family get bought out by a publicly floated company of Bear fans. All major decisions made by internet vote. Beautiful. Certainly couldn’t do much worse than the McCaskeys …
by Irish Bears Fan on Oct 21, 2009 12:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dude..
that was really depressing… Can’t you let me live in a fantasy world where i can hope for competent ownership.. way to burst the bubble brah…
by GtM on Oct 21, 2009 12:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on Geo
Nor, will they likely ever be great
Seriously? What if Cutler helps lead the franchise to greatness in ’10 or ’11? Will you eat enough crow for all your rants?
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
by propheteer on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Propheteer
You miss my point.
I love Cutler and hope he will do just that. And if he does, props to management.
My point is that they will NEVER be great (in my opinion) like the Rooney’s, Kraft, the Mara’s etc.
There is NO city on the face of the Earth, that is a greater ‘Football City’ than Chicago. PERIOD.
We deserve ‘Top-Flight’ ownerhip, pure and simple.
Like the Rooney’s of Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh Steelers: SIX Lombardi trophies scattered over 40 years and three HC’s.
Chicago Bears: ONE Lombardi trophy.
Why?
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
but most, if not almost all franchises, pale in comparison to the Steelers and Pats.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
by propheteer on Oct 21, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dream on
GrassHopper. Dream on.
Look at the bright side. At least we’re not the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry Jones would be long be considered the GREATEST and most successful owner in NFL history . . . but for ONE little thing.
He actually thinks he’s an ‘NFL’ man.
Think about it. Jerry is one of the smartest businessmen in the NFL. He owns ’America’s Team.’ He just built the greatest stadium in the universe.
If ONLY he was smart enough to hand over the keys to his team to a guy like, say, Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcells.
Jerry: “You (Jimmy or Bill or some other great HC) run the team, cause that’s what you do best.”
The HC: “Jerry. You take care of the business side of things, cause that’s what YOU do best.”
See? So simple a Caveman can figure it out!
But NOOOOOOOOO. Jerry has to show us all how (LOL) smart he is, in running an NFL team.
Pure stupidity.
BTW: Take a guess who Mike McCaskey’s IDOL & Role-Model was when soon after he took over the Bears?
That’s right . . . JERRY JONES!
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I Agree With SOME Of Your Points.
I will now list the ones I disagree with. Some in the form of a question.
1. How well did Mike Ditka do as a Head Coach when he left the Bears for New Orleans? Was Mike Ditka’s ego to big to share the stage with Buddy Ryan after the Bear s won the Superbowl?
2. How is the McCaskey family incompetent when they bring Jay Cutler to Chicago? The also hired jerry Angelo. They also hired Lovie Smith whom I still like as a Head Coach.
3. Michael McCaskey is a business man. He is not a football man and it was a mistake to give him the keys to the car. I still think he serves a purpose from the business side of football. It does exist you know.
4. Mike Singletary has turned out to be a decent head coach in the NFL to this point. Blaming the Bears organization for not hiring him is absurd. He had about as much or less experience as Dave Wannstedt at the time he wanted the job.
5. I like the effort the Bears organization has put out the last 5 years. We made it to a Superbowl. They are always looking for ways to improve. We have one of the top 15 teams in the NFL. Do we need to get better? Yes. Can injuries to Tommie Harris and Timo and Urlacher be foreseen? Probably not. Not unless Nostradamus was still alive. So I will continue to look to the future in a positive light. I will do so with the complete understanding that there are always going to be negative people out there trying to bring the team down.
by Gesiakob on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well Gesia
1. What difference does that make? Ditka failed in New Orleans. Big Deal. Nobody succeeded in NO, including some pretty good coaches like Hank Stram, Bum Phillips and Jim Mora.
2. I am talking LONG-TERM, overall for almost a quarter century. You are talking one player.
Jerry Angelo & Lovie Smith? You may like them but they are hardly anywhere near the best at what they do respectively.
3. Pay attention Gesia. That’s my entire point. He was a businessman that tried to be a football executive. Big mistake. Just like it has been in Dallas when another businessman has tried to be a football executive.
4. Mike Singletary, in his short tenure in SF, has been FAR more than a ‘decent HC.’ Your failure to see and understand that speaks volumes. Allow me to explain.
He replaced Mike Nolan last year, who essentially was a disaster in SF (18-37). Singletary took over mid-week before the Seahawk game (which they lost). Let’s leave that game out as he didn’t even have a full week to prepare his ‘new team.’
Leaving that game out Singletary was 5-3. Two of his three losses were against playoff teams (Arizona & Miami) when his new team held the ball on the final play/plays with a chance to win. He easily could’ve beeen 7-1.
Regardless, a 5-3 (or even 5-4) record as an interim HC is outstanding. Most inteim HC’s continue losing. For example, the longest tenured HC in the NFL is Jeff Fisher. His record as an interim HC in Houston? 1-5.
Mike Singletary took the EXACT same players that were failing miserably under Mike Nolan has got them playing much, much better under him. That’s the essence of great coaching.
You also don’t seem to understand something else. Mike Singletary didn’t seek the HEAD COACHING job with the Bears in 2003, just a start to his coaching career (like say, as the LB coach). Mike Singletary has been a leader everywhere he’s been, incuding as the MLB for his SB winning Bears. It’s really too bad that the McCaskey’s weren’t paying attention to that fact.
5. Top 15? Absolutely. And MY point is that the Bears are an iconic franchise whose fans deserve much, much better (like say consistently top 5 like Pittsburgh & New England).
I’m not negative. Just realistic. That’s like saying that Cowboys fans who complain about Jerry Jones as their GM are negative. Actually they would be intelligent and realistic.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not too step on GeoMak's toes, but
1. Ditka did do a terrible job of dealing with attention after winning the SB, and allowed his team to do the same. But it was the injuries to McMahon after that season with no competent backup that kept them from repeating. If there has ever been anyone with an ego as big, if not bigger, than Ditka’s it would be Buddy Ryan. Ryan leaving had nothing to do with that, in fact, you have to give Ditka props in how he handled that relationship which was forced on him by Papa Bear. Buddy was the most sought after assistant after the ‘85 Championship and he wanted to be a HC.
2. While I like Cutler very much, the jury is still out on whether he gets us to a championship. Without the other necessary pieces, he could be the next Dan Marino and, if that turns out to be the case, I would personally rather have the next Trent Dilfer and another ring. Unless Angelo and Smith get us into the playoffs, that makes 3 years in a row after going to Super Bowl with one of the youngest teams in the league, at that time, that we don’t even make the playoffs. I don’t want to wait any longer to see if they have figured it out.
3. Next time you see Bill Gates working on a motherboard, let me know. Smart businessmen put people in place that can do certain aspects of a total job better than they can so the end result is achieved. It’s the morons like Jones, Snyder, and Cuban in the NBA who look at their teams like their own personal toys and no one else is going to play with the toy except them, then they want to be the one’s who take all credit for the success.
4. In my opinion the jury is still out on Singletary as well, but Geo is exactly right, he didn’t ask to be the HC, he decided he did want to get into coaching and asked to be a position coach. Tell me who the Bears could have possibly had on their staff that would have known more or been able to drive players more at that level than him. The McCaskey’s wanted nothing to do with anything or anyone associated with the ‘85 team, espcecially one of the cornerstone pieces stealing their thunder.
5. TOP 15? That says it all right there, this is a middle of the pack, mediocre group who, because of this being the ownerships only business, don’t have the pockets or incentive to cut their losses quickly enough either on the field or in the office.
by BearFan611 on Oct 21, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BeraFan611
1. My post had less to do with Ditka’s abilities (especially after they won it all) but with the string of coaches that replaced him. But the fact is that Mike Ditka had the one essential element necessary for a HC: The ability to get the most out of his players.
Over time and after Super Bowl success, that ability diminished. That’s not unusual. Look at Mike Shanahan in Denver after they won it all.
You are right about McMahon, but wrong about Ryan. Ryan had a huge ego. So what? He also constructed the most devastating defense ever in the NFL.
Mike Ditka may not have liked Buddy Ryan personally and he might not have liked the fact that he was forced to keep him on staff . . . but he SURE liked his defense on Sunday.
It’s like the Denver Broncos. 30th in defense last season, so far 1st this year. It’s sure a lot easier to play football and win when your defense dominates.
2. You are correct about Cutler. All the tools in the universe. That means nothing unless he can lead the Bears to the promised land.
4. Right. Singletary was basically a coach on the field when he was a player. There’s no rational reason why the McCaskey’s shouldn’t have made him a LB coach or even a quality control coach when he came calling. Just get him in the building and let him learn and grow. Groom him to one day take over.
I’m sure if Ronnie Lott wanted to get into coaching, the 49ers would find a place for him.
5. Exactly my point. And furthermore, beyond their defeciencies on the field, they are hardly great businessmen. Unlike the Steelers, for example, who play in a smaller market and in a more depressed economic area, the Bears are living in one of the largest markets and greatest cities in the US.
They simply lack ownership that is ‘forward thinking’ enough to prosper and thrive. Instead they settle for mediocrity all too often.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you about Ditka
I was actually responding to Gesiakob’s statement about his ego and tried to point out that Ryan’s ego was as big. I agree, who cares, together they foung a way around their feelings to attaing the ultimate goal. That’s why I said in my post
you have to give Ditka props in how he handled that relationship which was forced on him by Papa Bear. Buddy was the most sought after assistant after the ‘85 Championship and he wanted to be a HC.
I am pretty much onboard with everything you said and didn’t agree with the response from Gesia. I’m tired of letting Bears management, from McCaskey down to Lovie, off the hook. I’ve said it several times here before, if they make the playoffs and have a good run, the coaching staff deserves a chance to finish out (DOESN’T MEAN WE GIVE THEM ANOTHER EXTENSION FOR GOD’S SAKE), but, if they miss the playoffs again. Launch ’em.
by BearFan611 on Oct 21, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it BF611
I always thought we were on the same page on these types of things.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler = Marino or Dilfer
You posted: "2. While I like Cutler very much, the jury is still out on whether he gets us to a championship. Without the other necessary pieces, he could be the next Dan Marino and, if that turns out to be the case, I would personally rather have the next Trent Dilfer and another ring. "
The Dolphins’ failure to win a title with Marino had very little if anything to do with Marino’s play, and the Ravens’ title did not have all that much to do with Dilfer’s play. If the Bears fail to win a title in the Culter years, I suspect it will have less to do with Cutler’s play and more to do with the other guys.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take some Ritalin
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Oct 21, 2009 1:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amen.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least
Al Davis doesn’t own the Bears…
by JimmyMack on Oct 21, 2009 3:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Singletary should have been a Bear for life
As soon as he wanted to coach he should have been given a job. Assistant LB coach to LB coach to DC to HC… his coaching progression should have been made in Chicago
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 21, 2009 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe so
but it is way too early to call him a success as a head coach.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not calling him a success (yet)
I’m saying he should have had an opportunity to either succed or fail as a Bear
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 21, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It still seems strange to associate Mike Singletary with the San Francisco 49ers
When I think of him, I always think of the ’85 Bears, and how dominant Singletary and the defense was that year. We may never see a defense that dominant ever again – in Chicago or anywhere else.
by JimmyMack on Oct 21, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right.
It’s too early to call Singletary a success or failure.
That said, he’s off to a pretty good start.
And it’s like wilt said, he should’ve had an opportunity to fail or succeed as a Bear.
And again it goes back to what I said earlier.
He shouldn’t have been given an opportunity because he was a former Bear, or a HOF player.
He should’ve been given an opportunity in Chicago because he’s a ‘born leader’ who, BTW, also happens to have been one of the greatest Bears ever.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm,
You post: “Meanwhile, one of the greatest Bears of all, a man who has shown the ability to get the most out of his players, currently is the HC for the hated S.F. 49ers. One Mike Singletary.”
Mike Singletary whose offensive philosophy is to come off the bus running the ball is your answer for the Bears? Aren’t you the same guy who has repeatedly criticized Smith for being a run first coach?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 9:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ding, ding, ding!
They have very similar, conservative philosophies as head coaches.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
by propheteer on Oct 21, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it really the philosophy that's a problem or the fact that we can't run the ball at all?
I agree that we can’t say Singletary is going to be a great HC yet, but perhaps his tempermant and ability to drive players to work harder and play better might make that philosophy acceptable and help make Jay even more successful. Again, I’m not saying he’s proven he can do that consistantly yet, but his players seem more fired up and accountable than ours at this point.
by BearFan611 on Oct 21, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made this statement to a good friend of mine
a few weeks ago. I said that if Mike Singletary was coaching the talent on the Bears, they’d go 16-0.
I was kind of joking. They would probably lose a game or two this season.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had you been drinking?
Seriously, that is thinking with your heart not your head.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I drink nonstop
That aside, I was being somewhat ‘facetious’ with the 16-0 comment.
Not with the 14-2 comment.
If Lovie Smith could get HIS squard playing as hard as Mike Singletary has his, then yes, 14-2 would be a possibility.
The number one job of the HC is to get the best out of his players. Guys like Dave Wannstedt, Dick jauron and Lovie Smith have never been acuused of that.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of emotional coaches
fail to motivate players, and lots of unemotional coaches get players to play hard, too.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's then genius of deadred
Lots of emotional coaches fail to motivate players, and lots of unemotional coaches get players to play hard, too.
Right. So what?
I am talking about a SPECIFIC ‘emotional’ coach (MIke Singletary) who also happens to be a prety good HC, beyond the ‘emotion.’
If YOU think that Lovie Smith does a BETTER job, getting the most out of his players than does Mike Singletary, then FINE. (Most, however, would disagree).
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had his boys fired up for the Atlanta game.
How’d that work out for him?
by Syndor on Oct 21, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smith has proved more as a head coach
than Singletary has so far, that much is fact.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 22, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grass is always greener
Are the 49ers better than they were a year ago? TBD. Are they more motivated? Based on what? Talent usually determines who wins and who loses. Firery head coaches are less important than having and developing the talent. Whether Singletary can develop talent is also TBD.
As for the run first philosophy, I think a run to set up the pass philosophy can still work, but my point was geomak’s glowing recommendation of Singletary is in conflict with hs oft-repeated contention that a run first offensive philosophy cannot succeed in today’s NFL.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the talent level in any professional sport is so close from team to team that coaching
definitely makes a huge difference. There are some rare physical specimens who are the exception, but the measurables of the vast majority of players at each position on every team are virtually indistinguishable. The players that have the work ethic, desire, and accountability are the ones that succeed over the others. Since not all of these young men display those qualities on a consistent basis, yes, I definitely feel that the coaches that can bring that out of them will be more successful than those that try to be their friend. None of us are in the locker rooms so we can’t say for sure, but by most accounts, Lovie is very soft on his players and doesn’t demand a lot out of them. He seems to rely on the Briggs, Browns (Alex & Mike, when he was here), Kreutz, Urlacher, etc. to lead the way and, in my opinion, hopes the others follows. I don’t believe you can afford to do that as a HC and while that peer leadership is nice, the HC needs to take the responsibility on his own shoulders to push the middle of the road players to the next level and identify the ones who never will comply and get rid of them. I just have never seen this as a quality that Lovie possesses.
As far as the run first philosophy, I don’t care if it’s run first or pass first, you need some kind of running game to keep defenses honest. Any NFL team that is one dimensional is doomed to fail. I know that Geo has talked about pass first due to the team we have now, but I have also seen where he has admitted to exagerating that to make a point. I’m not here to protect Geo, and I’m sure we all our opinions of each of the people who post here regularly, but the man does know enough to give him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn’t think a pass ONLY team is what we should have.
by BearFan611 on Oct 21, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things
1. I disgaree on the talent disparity. Also, I disagree that emotional coaches, and Singletary is definitely a very emotional coach, are more effective than more calm coaches. Firery coaches can have short term benefits, but I think long term they burn themselves and the players out.
2. Geo clearly said this does not work, yet he thinks Singletary would be a great coach. There is a very large contradiction there.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'd have to define emotiional and fiery first.
I believe intensity is the key. I’ve said it over and over here, Landry, Walsh, and those guys were intense and weren’t hysterical, but there were also the Lombardi’s, Halas’, Parcell’s, etc. who were very emotional and very fiery AND very successful for a long time.
Last week on Inside the NFL, Collinsworth, Simms, Sapp, and James Brown all spoke about how teams always take on the personality of the their coach and I couldn’t agree more. All three of the former players agreed that throughout their careers they preferred coaches who were fiery and intense (not exact words, but same message) and that laid back coaches had laid back teams.
I can say that in my experience that is absolutely the truth, whether it’s been sports teams or corporate environments, the leader of the particular group dictates the demeanor of that group. Again, we all have our own opinions, that’s mine.
Regarding GeoMak’s position, you’ll have to take that up with him, but I read many of his posts differently and my interpretation was that he felt the Bears current team was better served to pass first and use the run when you had to rather than Lovie’s B.S. about coming off the bus running still.
by BearFan611 on Oct 21, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make no sense
Like with this comment:
Talent usually determines who wins and who loses.
The same talent that Mike Nolan produced a 327 winning percentage with Mike Singletary has at a 571 clip.
People like you simply refuse to see the difference there.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irony alert
Geo, you saying “People like you simply refuse to see the difference there” is too funny. As if you ever bother to see opposing points of view.
As for talent, who usually wins, the more emotional team or the more talented team?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 21, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red
I do bother to see opposing points of view.
However, I am QUICK to dismiss those points when they make NO sense!
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which you define as
any opinion contrary to yours.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 22, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Acceptance is one of 5 stages of grief
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance.
by Arbusto on Oct 21, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There's a great book out there...
The Other Side of Sadness: What the New Science of Bereavement Tells Us About Life After a Loss that is a more scientific, research-based work that discounts the Kubler-Ross model. That is, if you are interested.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
by Dane Noble on Oct 21, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No not really.
I just took nothing else from this post.
by Arbusto on Oct 21, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
*This tagline is copyrighted by smudgers, inc. for the private use of the WCG audience. Any use of this tagline or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts without smudgers, inc. consent is prohibited.
by Ditkavsworld on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
Every time
I think you’ve reached the peak, you find a way to outdo yourself. I clicked on this post cuz i saw there were some new comments. Started to scroll down, the scroll got out of control and shot all the way to the bottom. As i’m scrolling up I see your screen name then start reading your comment and I’m thinking to myself holy sh*t somebody has crapped in the avenger’s cornflakes big time here. Scroll up a little further to see what got you so torqued and start reading the five stages of grief and about pissed myself laughing when I put the two together. definitely wreck’d
"They better get another quarterback cuz we're comin"-#58 Wilber Marshall LB Chicago Bears
by BearDown34 on Oct 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have my new signature line!
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm honored.
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
*This tagline is copyrighted by smudgers, inc. for the private use of the WCG audience. Any use of this tagline or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts without smudgers, inc. consent is prohibited.
by Ditkavsworld on Oct 21, 2009 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
awesome
Camp ifuwanna, we hold you in our heart...
by ifuwannacrownem on Oct 21, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make ridicules
assumptions based on nothing. When you are in that locker room listening to how they motivate you can talk. All you go off of is what you think is needed to motivate someone. I have read numerous articles about Lovie being a great motivator. Just because he doesn’t scream and yell doesn’t mean he can’t motivate his players. I for one would not do well with a boss who screams at me. Furthermore the employees i have seem to stay motivated with out me yelling at them. These are adult professionals and should not have to be treated like children. I love Singletery as a player but the fact is the jury is still out on him as a H.C. Remember this is the guy who whipped out his penis to motivate his players.
by Jhitt81 on Oct 21, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Name one
I have read numerous articles about Lovie being a great motivator.
Use Google or whatever and pull up an article that shows that.
I’ll wait.
These are adult professionals and should not have to be treated like children.
In theory, you are correct. In practice, however, you couldn’t be more wrong.
Proof? Read Jimmy Johnson’s book: “Turining the Thing Around.”
Jimmy:
A). Was studying to be an ‘Industrial Psychologist" before his career in coaching. In essence he’s a psychologist.
B). If you READ his book and LISTEN to what he is saying, you will see that HE (Jimmy Johnson) disagrees with you 100%!
When you argue this point with me, you are really arguing with Jimmy Johnson.
Too funny!
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the relevent quote
“Smith came to Chicago with the reputation for being proficient at instituting positive change after he engineered a dramatic turnaround as the defensive coordinator of the Rams from 2001 through 2003. Known for his acumen in teaching and motivating young talent, Smith took on the added responsibility of assistant head coach with the Rams prior to the 2003 season. In Smith’s first season as an NFL defensive coordinator with St. Louis in 2001, Smith helped the Rams return to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs the previous season as his defense allowed fewer points and total yards per game than the previous year. Smith coached on playoff teams in four of his last five campaigns as an assistant and has done so in seven of his 13 NFL seasons overall.”
“When you argue this point with me, you are really arguing with Jimmy Johnson”
Is absolutely ridicules! I minored in psychology when i was in college and do not go around telling people “you are essentially arguing with a psychologist” because it is a ridicules, none the less elitist, thing to say. Especially when your not even talking about yourself!
Your arguments are nothing but conjecture and you sound like an idiot who is trying to hard to come off smarter than he actually is. You speak as if everything you say is fact when you have never been an Owner, G.M, or H.C of a football team.
by Jhitt81 on Oct 21, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not nearly
as well versed in football lore as GeoMak seems to be, but I also try not to come off as an elite-ist either… but that’s they way he does it, just like the difference in coaching styles i guess.
But, not yelling at your employees at a 9-5 is way different than on the football field. the regular job, is not an environment built around fire and passion like football is.
i can just imagine the huddle around the coffee pot, before the 1-2-3 Break! and running into the conference room, for a 100 slide death by power point presentation… pretty silly.
As is, Lovie telling his guys “good luck out there, give it your best shot, and we’ll just stay a little bit later tonight to finish that tackle, but don’t worry, we’ll take a long lunch on Monday”
Whipping down his pants, and benching Vernon Davis, was making a statement, and his players have completely turned around, he went from an underperforming whining TE, to a hugely productive TE with a winning attitude.
Is Mike better than Lovie, time will tell, but Lovie is coaching 13-3 talent, and seeing 7-9/9-7 results, Mike is coaching 5-11/7-9 talent, and will probably end up 9-7/11-5 with it.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BearNecessities
I simply state my opinion. That’s all.
I’m confused by your opening statement:
I’m not nearly as well versed in football lore as GeoMak seems to be, but I also try not to come off as an elite-ist either… but that’s they way he does it, just like the difference in coaching styles i guess
We are all products of our environment. One of the first books I can recall reading (in the early 70’s) was “Instant Replay” the classic book by Jerry Kramer about Vince Lombardi and the GB Packers.
The essence of that book was that the Packers were the laughingstock of the NFL (sort of like the current Detroit Lions) and Lombardi, largely throught the ‘force of his will’ made them into a dynasty.
As Bart Starr said (regarding the teams first meeting with Lombardi):
“He quickly turned to us and said – and I’ll remember this as long as I live:
’Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well that we will not catch it because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it because in the process we wil catch excellence."
“He paused for a moment, got up even closer to those of us sitting up front, looked us in the eye and added,
‘I am not REMOTELY in being just good.’"
“Wow.”
“It was very powerful. You had an immediate feeling and confidence that he was THE MAN. We were ready to start the season immediately . . . when we took a break I ran downstairs and called my wife back in Alabama. I said ,‘Honey, we’re going to begin to win.’”
Some coaches have it. The ‘It Factor.’ Most, IMO, don’t.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My post
was in agreeance with you.
Not sure why the confusion, nor the posting about a book you once read?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
And I’ll throw in a quote from a coach of the past, Casey Stengall:
“The key to getting the most out of your players is to figure out which ones to give a hug on the neck and which ones to give a kick in the ass.”
But I’m sure there is some sort of philosophical flaw in something so simple.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
by Dane Noble on Oct 21, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no flaw in that at all GB
It’s just that baseball and football are two extremely different sports.
One (baseball) is ‘pastoral’ and the other (football) is ‘militaristic.’
George Carlin had a famous routine about this very subject.
By all accounts, managers in baseball make much less difference than HC’s in football.
In baseball it is much more about how much a team spends for talent.
In football it’s much more about how much the HC is able to squeeze out of his talent.
Before the season started, virtually everyone would have said that San Diego was much more talented than Denver.
San Diego: 2-3.
Denver: 6-0
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I won't get into a semantical argument
about football vs baseball, but I will say this:
In today’s football (usually), there is a head coach, three coordinators, and umpteen support coaches who focus on each group of positions.
There are a lot more coaches for each team in today’s football than that of even twenty years ago, and each position coach, or specialist coach, is an expert at what he does.
That being said, in the Bears situation, you have a perfect example of the different roles that exist on the practice field and in the study sessions prepping for a game.
Lovie Smith is known by all to demand the respect of his players and coaching staff, and he does so with the personality that so many dislike. But, the respect is there nonetheless.
I am certain that there are plenty of disciplinarians on our staff, coaches that will get loud and emotional when necessary. For some players, that works… for others, it doesn’t.
I do agree that the HC is ultimately the most important part of getting the most out of his players, but he also relies heavily on his support staff.
Regardless, there is no definitive way to say what a coach should or should not be. It is a delicate balance that not only each HC should have himself, but also have all the right ingredients in his coaching staff.
It’s just a recipe, and a recipe that is very difficult to get all the ingredients just right.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
by Dane Noble on Oct 21, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it was the elite-ist comment
Anyway, I fell very strongly about the HC as the most important position on the team.
The Bart Starr/Vince Lombardi story was for the enjoyment of all, not just you specifically (LOL).
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect you BN
Some foolishly equate yelling at an NFL player with yelling at the office secretary.
You are way too intelligent to believe that BS!
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you
I think that while Lovie was probably the answer at the time, is running out of time with his impact on this team.
sometimes things get stale, and Lovie was what we needed in 04, and he turned us around in a hurry, 5-11, 11-5, 13-3… but he never achieved the goal. and now it’s 7-9 9-7, and it looks about the same this year.
I think Mike would great for this team, he’s firey, passionate, intelligent, and iconic.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take BN
Which most don’t like.
Leave 2009 out (as it’s not a complete season).
If one leaves out 2006, Lovie is a 500 HC. Not good enough.
2006? Yes he gets credit for that year and their SB appearance.
I, however, give MUCH more credit to Devin Hester.
Sometimes players ‘transcend’ the game.
We saw it last off-season with the Arizona Cardinals.
Larry Fitzgerald is one of the best WR’s in the game.
He may have had, however, in last years four-game playoff run, the greatest playoffs by a WR in NFL history (including guys like Jerry Rice).
Sometimes a single player can carry an entire team.
I think Hester did that in 2006, as did Fitzgerald in 2008.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our Defense
really played lights out most of that season and the year prior, but yeah, teams having to adjust on the fly to Devin Hester surely made a difference.
I’m usually as much a homer as the next guy, but i think a fresh perspective may be what this team needs
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, really? Are you 12?
Did i touch a nerve by offering up a different opinion? Are you o.k.? Or did i bruise your fragile ego?
by Jhitt81 on Oct 21, 2009 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One of the first books I can recall reading...
(in the mid 980’s) was “Goodnight Moon” a classic children’s book about a little bunny kid who had to say goodnight to everything in the room before the child went to bed.
Goodnight room. Goodnight moon. Goodnight cow jumping over the moon. Goodnight light, and the red balloon…
Wow.
It was powerful. Some books really tell the story of going to bed, some IMO don’t.
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Oct 21, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
*mid 1980's
A fail on a sarcastic post. I am so ashamed! :(
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Oct 21, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great smudgers
Real intelligent
Quick question (honest answer):
Have you ever read ‘Instant Replay?’
My guess . . . . NOOOOOOOOOO.
See, that’s my fatal flaw here. I actually try to have INTELLIGENT conversations here about the Bears and the NFL.
Some are up for it .
Most are not.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ligthen up, just a little humor.
I for one, even if they aren’t specifically for me, enjoy your posts Geo
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks BN
I like humor but I am usually fighting ‘tooth and nail’ on these boards.
I was BANNED Monday night from the Bronco Blog (Mile High Report).
Why?
Cause I used the word NONSENSE! No S++T. Nonsense. I really didn’t think that word was so (LOL) inflammatory.
I was simply responding to Bronco fans who were baggging on Cutler. Most of their reasons (as I astutley pointed out) were complete nonsense.
My bad.
Bronco fans KILL me. It’s like the guy who tells all his friends how much he likes his NEW Girlfriend (Orton) more than his ex-girlfriend (Cutler).
And yet, he just CAN’T stop talking about the EX!
He likes the new on so much better but he can’t stop talking about the ex.
Too funny (and SO transparent).
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You were banned there
for the same reason as the other blogs you have been banned from: you are condescending and insulting to people who you don’t feel match your level of expertise.
I’m hoping that it is something that, after all you’ve been through here, you have learned to moderate. Then again, if what you said earlier was true about drinking all the time, maybe you shold reconsider drunk-blogging. That’s got to be the most challenging time to self-regulate.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
by Dane Noble on Oct 21, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why
I would like to point out, that Bronco/Chiefs fans coming over here after a loss… is probably a bad thing.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By "people who you don’t feel match your level of expertise"
I think you mean agree with him.
by Jhitt81 on Oct 21, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute....
We can BLOG SOBER? Wow. Didn’t see that one coming…..
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
by Just Dave on Oct 21, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually GB
A). It amuses me that I was banned.
B). was ‘banned’ because some Bronco fans were spewing NONSENSE and I called tham out on it. Pure and simple.
Tell you what though. If you actually want to KNOW what yopu are talking about before ‘opining’ on it, go to MHR on Monday night, a few hours before kickoff and read what I wrote.
THEN tell me what was so ‘inflammatory’ about my responses!
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think of inflammatory like
starting off your post by telling someone that they “wasted” their time with a well thought out post. I get what you were trying to say and I think this was a good read, but you can be abrasive and unnecessarily blunt and tactless at times. Also you tend to “attack” people who don’t agree with you by aggressively pointing out minute flaws in their arguments rather than “agreeing to disagree”. Just lighten up a bit. We don’t all have to agree. That’s all.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
by Just Dave on Oct 21, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave
Plaese refresh my memory with my comment about someone ‘wasting their time with a well-thought out post.’
While I don’t deny that I said that I don’t know what post it came from.
Beyond that, like I said, when people post nonsense I call them out on it.
Cutler threw 18 INT’s in 2008 (a little over one per game).
A) Shanahan wanted Cutler throwing downfield (ala Favre) not throwing ‘ball control’ (ala Josh McDaniels).
B) Anyone (Bronco fan or otherwise) who thinks that the Broncos MISSED the playoffs because of Cutler’s 18 INT’s, and NOT because Denver had the 30th ranked defense in the NBL in BEYOND HELP!
And essentially, that’s the problem in Bronco-Land.
According to them, Cutler threw a million INT’s (and there is nary a word about their PATHETIC defense).
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You begin this post by saying
“Don’t waste your time writing letters” as a reaction to a well written “Open Letter” by GeauxBears. I agree Denver fans can be a bit hard to handle, but I’m talking about Bear fans on this post.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
by Just Dave on Oct 21, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got it.
Kind of ’tongue-in-cheek."
I have no problem with GB’s letter.
Factually it makes sense and I understand where it’s coming from and what he meant.
My point is that it’s really a waste of time.
“It is what it is’ and the McCaskey’s ’Are Who They Are.”
In the history of NFL ownership, they are strictly middle-of-the road.
Not terrible . . . and not great.
And it’s too bad.
BTW: Who the F++K is Robert Kraft? In history of the NFL he was a PATRIOT FAN!!!!
Used to sit in the stands (Untile he bought the team).
The McCaskeys’s? Blood relatives of the founder of the NFL: George Halas.
And yet, the ‘former fan’ Robert Kraft is considered to be ten times the owner as the McCaskey’s.
A) Why?
and
B) I rest my case.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and they are loving
slinging around the Redzone INT percentage fact right now i bet
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
To them, that’s all that matters.
Of course, here’s the BEST part.
LONG before the ‘BS" if you had told Bronco fans that they were considering trading Jay Cutler for Orton and two #1’s, virtually EVERY Bronco fan in the universe would’ve said the same thing:
Are you out of your F++KING Mind?
Our Jay Culter for WHOOOOO?
Of course, NOW, they are happy cause all Jay did was throw INT’s, usually in the ‘Red Zone.’
Hysterical!
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
i went back to the Trade thread from April on there site an did some digging, and a lot of their posters who flame us, or knock us, or come over here “defending” Orton… are the same that said
“our season is over”
“Orton sucks”
“fire McDaniels”
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop using fact to prove points...
JOSH MCDANIELS IS A GOD, ORTON IS THE GREATEST QB EVER! DENVER WINS THE NEXT 10 SB’s. CHICAGO WILL NEVER RECOVER FROM “THE TRADE”.
ALL HAIL HOODIE JR!
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 22, 2009 6:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
i’ve been over there trying to repair the post Orton/Cutler McJayGate fallout, and they were bashing you hard, have labeled you “THE” troll basically.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BN
They love to bash Cutler but when challenged, they cry like the babies that they are.
For example:
Geo: Ron Jaworski is an ex-QB and watches more tape than anyone. He has always said that Cutler was on of the best young QB’s in the game.
Bronco Blogger: He was probably one of those who predicted that Denver would start out 0-4.
Geo: Actually, Jaws doesn’t make predictions.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand, i really do
as i came under heavy fire after sunday’s game, but sometimes people don’t wanna hear logic
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may have been the most intelligent
thing I have ever heard, BN.
but sometimes people don’t wanna hear logic
And that’s largely my problem. I deal with logic, whether it supports my position or doesn’t.
And you’re right. Sometimes people don’t wanna hear that. And I should be smart enough to understand that and walk away.
But usually, I’m not.
BTW; Regarding the Broncos, I have never said nothing but nice things about Orton. I have stated that throwing the deep ball to guys like Hester wasn’t his strong suit. Also Cutler’s physical skills are beyond those of Orton’s, for what that is worth.
by GeoMak on Oct 21, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol thanks
I also liked Orton, he fit our offense well at the time, and he fits Denver’s nicely, but it’s like comparing a station wagon to a ferrari.
one gets the kids to school, and the other is for friday night, it’s simply a case of apples to oranges.
But this ‘who got the better deal’ really makes no sense, it would appear that Chicago received it’s own version of Brett Favre it so desperately has longed for
and Denver got their Defense Quarterback who won’t “lose” a game for them
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right BN
If nothing else, this trade gave us a ‘change of pace’ for the next decade.
Instead of having to watch ‘game managers’ like Orton, we can watch a ‘gun-slinger’ like Cutler.
We might not win a SB with Cutler (like we didn’t with Orton/Grossman/Griese and everone else) but at least we won’t be bored to death.
Watching Cutler roll out and fire the ball downfield is a thing of beauty.
I love it.
by GeoMak on Oct 22, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the root
of this problem is lying somewhere in the terminology of the QB as well
“game-managing” sounds like… Chad Pennington, Tavaris Jackson, and Shaun Hill. even though it’s true, it’s because the naming doesn’t imply
Peyton Manning-ness or Brady-esque stature.
Denver is used to having high octane, high profile QBs that can get it done, we were used to ho-hum offense, so when Orton was referred to as “game managing” we are all like “so what! have you seen our running game”
and Denver is taking offense to that… IMO
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 22, 2009 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awhile back on the Bronco Blog (MHR)
There was a comment like this.
Supposedly, Mike Shanahan encouraged Cutler to throw downfield, not to ‘check-downs.’
One blogger made the statement that Shanny ‘Ruined this kid (Cutler).’
I don’t know if that story about Shanahan encouraging Cutler to throw downfield was FACT or if it was someone’s BELIEF about what happened in Denver.
Regardless, I would believe it to be true. Cutler had 4,500 yards and 25 TD’s. With that you get some INT’s. Big deal.
McDaniels wants to run a more conservative, ball-control offense with his QB. Fine.
Just don’t crucify Cutler because his HC wanted him to make plays downfield.
And like I have tried (to NO avail) to explain to these people.
Cutler played two full seasons in Denver.
Their defense was ranked 28th & 30th. Hard to win that way.
BTW: Delusional Bronco fans response to that?
The defense sucked because Cutler put them behind the 8 ball all the time (on account of the fact that he threw a million INT’s).
Some have actually blamed their defensive shortcomings on Jay Cutler.
F++KING INSANE!
(And people wonder why I end up getting banned. I admit. I really can’t deal with that kind of STUPIDITY)!
by GeoMak on Oct 22, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Know what BN
I’ve been over there for awhile.
I’ve said many ‘nice’ things about the Broncos and their fans and Kyle Orton.
But I call out nonsense when I see it.
And that drives them Crazyyyyyy!
It’s like Sunday’s game against Atlanta. To Bronco fans, the Bears lost because Cutler threw two INT’s (and one was in the Red-Zone).
NONSENSE!
They lost (in part) cause of Forte’s fumbles, the 62 yard Kick Return after the Bears tied the game (shades of last seasons ‘squib kick’), Pace jumping offsides at a CRITICAL point in the game (if Pace does that in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarter – BIG DEAL), things like that.
Yet to ‘love-sick’ Bronco fans, the Bears lost because all Cutler does is throw INT’s.
Pure F++KING Stupidity.
by GeoMak on Oct 22, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I haven't.
Quick Question for you (honest answer):
Have you read “Goodnight Moon?”
My guess . . . . NOOOOOOOOOO.
• • • • •
And pleaz stop usin dem big wurds. Theyz confoose me.
Seriously, dude. Lighten up. I’m not challenging your super sized man brain… just having a little fun.
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Oct 21, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geo
You had an intelligent post. It was well put together time line wise. It was in fact a theory however. GeoMak’s theory. I think the difficulty you experience personally is when others disagree with your theories. Out of all the post I read there is only one that made most sense to me. And that is what GeauxBears stated. Coaching is like a recipe and you try and get the ingredients just right. There is no Black and White. There is no who’s right and who’s wrong. There is just a mixture of personalities and players and you hope your team has the best chemestry to get to the tournament
by Gesiakob on Oct 21, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look Gesia
It’s REAL simple.
Peruse the list of Super Bowl winning HC’s.
The Shulas, the Nolls, the Landrys, the Lombardis, the Ditkas, the Parcells, the Belichicks and so on.
Virtually ALL of them were best described as SOB’s!
Periiod. End of Story.
Why this confuses some is BEYOND me.
But that’s their problem (and their ignorance).
by GeoMak on Oct 22, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding
I read my Daughter goodnight Chicago all the time!
my hope is that it helps her learn to become a better football coach…wait
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 21, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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