Kyle Orton and Cedric Benson thrive outside Chicago
by angryandy on Oct 24, 2009 8:47 AM CDT
72 comments
The Chicago Bears offense seems to have problems developing players over the years. Kyle Orton left the team and now he is having an All Pro year for the Denver Broncos leading them to their best start in years. He languished in a Bear offense that didn't develop his ability to be a leader. It is no accident he is outplaying Jay Cutler so far this year. I expect to see Cutler regress as a quarterback now he is with the Chicago Bears. The Chicago Bears offensive coaches do a horrible job in getting players to perform to their draft ability. Greg Olsen is having a bad year and Matt Forte is having a disastrous one.
Cedric Benson is another football player that got screwed by the Bears coaching staff and organization. He has gone so far as to say the Bears blacklisted him to other teams. Luckily for the Cincinnati Bengals they did not listen to what the Bears said about him. He has gained more than two hundred yards than Matt Forte thus far in the season. I am glad to see Cedric become the player people expected him to be once he got free from the Chicago Bears organization. This guy had tremendous talent that the Bears were never able to get out in three seasons. Iremember reading that players who liked Thomas Jones hazed poor Cedric and threw him in a tub of freezing ice water filled tub. The Bears will see what they missed out on this weekend as Cedric will run all over his former mates. I shudder to think what would happen if Walter Payton came out to this current coaching staff and regime. The Bears don't develope many players because rookies get hazed by the veterans and are treated like Michael Jordon was treated by fellow veteran All Stars at his first All Star game. The Chicago Bears need to clamp down on the personal drama and hazing of rookies. It ruined Cedric Benson's short career and who knows how many countless other players.
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So, if we shut down Benson tomorrow,
will you delete this FanPost?
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
by Dane Noble on Oct 24, 2009 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How's that "un-rec" button coming?
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Oct 24, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MMMM....
Where have I seen this before? Oh yes another post about Orton being better than Cutler and how Benson was the one that away.
Let’s recap what we have learned, already by using the search function:
Orton is behind a better offense and has a stellar defens.
Benson needed to go because he was immature and had not one but two arrests for alchol within a year. He also fought with club house leaders and was not welcomed into the team because of his hold-out as rookie.
My God people learn how to use the fanthreads that already open.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 24, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you were in charge of deleting fanposts?
Phil: " Whose baby is that?
Alan: "Check his collar or something." - The Hangover
by ANYTIME09 on Oct 24, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he didn't exactly break any rules
or guidelines, so I am just hoping that he’ll do it himself when we shut Benson down tomorrow. Andy likes to post, and seems to enjoy the outlet of blogging…
I just wish in this case he’d followed the blog enough recently to realize this is a tired topic on WCG.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
by Dane Noble on Oct 24, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon McGowan
leads the Pats in tackles and recovered fumbles… this reads a lot like Morrissey’s article in the trib about past Bears players
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 24, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's bound to get hurt, just like always.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
by propheteer on Oct 24, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Gawd...
I don’t even know where to start with this one. It’s this that really ticks me off though…
Cedric Benson is another football player that got screwed by the Bears coaching staff and organization.
Really?…Are you F’ng kidding me? Yeah, the Bears really screwed him. Handing him the starting job, forcing him to be lazy, oh and I’d better not forget providing him endless amounts of alcohol.
The guy was a total bust here and it was all on him. End of story.
by Ortons Neckbeard on Oct 24, 2009 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed. that giving of the starting role stings a lot
considering a little boy named Thomas Jones had to leave to give that up.
"This one means 'Kill Kirk!!!!'... And also, 'hallelujah'... Depending on the context."
by trippingandy on Oct 24, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but to a lesser extent. I agree that the Bears organization is terrible at evaluating offensive talent…..for their system. The problem is, they believe they can draft, or recently trade, high talented players and stick them in a terrible offensive system and behind a shitty offensive line and said player will be productive.
It just doesn’t work that way. There have been a handful of RBs in this entire league that were great without the help of an offensive line. Today’s NFL is drastically different from those days. Defenses are entirely too fast and strong now to have another Payton, or Sanders type RB.
I don’t think there’s ever been a successful QB in this league who’s had a terrible offensive line. Every QB in this league can throw a football extremely well. They just need time to do it.
I would like to see JA and Lovie give as much attention to the offensive line as they do the defensive line in drafts. Games are won in the trenches. You hear that so many times but it’s true. The Bears should use one of their first 3 picks(when they actually have them) on an offensive lineman every year. High round lineman can make low round RBs/QBs look like 1st round talent.
I think the Bears are actually pretty good at evaluating offensive talent but bad at putting the talent in the right system. Problem is, these other teams are better at putting these players in the right system.
by McRipper on Oct 24, 2009 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Has nothing to do with evaluating talent
and everything to do with effort on Benson’s part, and not having elite offensive/defensive talent surrounding Orton.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
by propheteer on Oct 24, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who liked Thomas Jones hazed poor Cedric and threw him in a tub of freezing ice water filled tub.
OMG is he ok??? That’s the worst hazing I’ve ever heard of….
Why a Colts fan continues to post on here I’ll never know, but I hope Benson does lousey not just tomorrow but all season, yup I hope Kyle Orton fails too. Why… well because I love one team and the players on that team are the only ones I care if they are sucessful or not. Well them and my fantasy players, but that’s it.
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
*This tagline is copyrighted by smudgers, inc. for the private use of the WCG audience. Any use of this tagline or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts without smudgers, inc. consent is prohibited.
by Ditkavsworld on Oct 24, 2009 9:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure Angry Andy is really a Colts fan
He has only made one comment (no posts) at Stampede Blue, and he comments a ton on Daily Norseman and on here instead. He’s actively hoping for Favre to win a Superbowl (according to his comments at DN), but then has said Cutler could end up winning more SB rings than Favre. He’s kinda obsessed with QBs in general.
My bet is that he’s a Vikes fan (hence his continual poking us Bears fans with a stick), and the Colts fan thing is just a cover. For the love of Pete, he lists “Neil Armstrong” as his favorite cyclist. Neil??
May the wind be always at your back, and may your placekicker have icewater in his veins.
by juperee on Oct 24, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
neil armstrong. wouldn’t be surprised if he turned out to be 12.
by Nih1lus on Oct 24, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His fave astronaut is Lance Aldrin, so it evens out.
May the wind be always at your back, and may your placekicker have icewater in his veins.
by juperee on Oct 24, 2009 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I being Punked??
Seriously. You don’t really believe the things you typed in this post do you? The Kyle Orton points that you are making make no sense. You do realize that Denver has the best O-Line in football right? I mean Orton can pass a bill through Congress with the time he has back there to throw. Plus he has some nice weapons to throw his 15 yards or less passes to as they makes plays after the catch. But I know what you’ll say: “Joe Montana didn’t have a great arm”! So I’ll just move on.
Cutler regressing as a QB? Orton outplaying him? OK. You do realize that by this time in 2006 Rex Grossman was the odds on favorite for MVP of the league right? I’d say to all the Orton groupies out there to just relax, calm down, pray that no one on that O-line gets hurt, and that B.Marshall stays upright. Because it’s a long season.
by Dils on Oct 24, 2009 9:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Some differences Dils
Going into 2006, Rex had 10/12 career startsand a 5-7(?) career record. Once the opposing defenses discovered he couldn’t handle the blitz, it was all over. KO had 33 starts going into this year, with a 21-12 record. Anything can happen, but not many see a sudden collapse by the Broncos. Is it such a sin that the Broncos have a great offensive line and very good receivers? Most top notch QBs are protected by very good OLs and throw to above average receivers. Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.. Roadmap for Angelo with Cutler?
by rocko1 on Oct 24, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it's not a sin
And I think Orton is doing a great job. I really do. I think he’s done a great job by coming in and learning a whole new system and he deserves praise for that. But to me that’s where it should stop.
I think what’s happening is that Orton fans are being a little hypocritical. The same people that are praising Orton for coming in and having a great season and are saying that the Bears somehow did Orton wrong, and didn’t let him grow, are the same people that weren’t willing to give Grossman any credit for QBing a team to a Superbowl. They say that they won in spite of Grossman. Even though Rex had a great defense and special teams that year, He DID NOT have the offensive weapons and minds that Orton does now. And I think it’s fair to point out where Rex was at this same point in ‘06 as it relates to Orton this year and to advise caution. So no it’s not a sin.
Orton fans are also praising Orton at the expense of Cutler. They aren’t even willing to add the caveat that a better surrounding cast has anything to do with Orton’s improvements. I mean to throw out all of these great stats and to act as if this was the trajectory Orton was on when he left here is just wrong. All I’m saying is be fair. Cutler’s in a more difficult situation as a QB with no O-Line or running game, yet he’s 3-2 and has the team on the right track. So like I said, it’s a long season.
by Dils on Oct 24, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton's trajectory
will never be known. I disagree about the Bears not doing Orton wrong, but that doesn’t matter.
I think most would agree that a QB will play better with good pass protection and offensive weapons. Add in a few good running backs and a QB can realize his potential if he is coached properly. It’s imperative for Angelo to get off his azz and surround Jay with the proper talent/coaching. This is no time to poorboy it. Only top drawer talent supporting Cutler will do.
by rocko1 on Oct 24, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's something I totally agree with!
Everyone will be on a short leash if they don’t get this guy blue chip offensive pieces.
by Dils on Oct 24, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe my eyes!
Dils in total agreement with Rocko1…lol. Seriously, Angelo has his work cut out. The CBA issue(if not extended) will only delay the needed upgrades on offense. There will be far fewer free agents next year and we are basically out of the game for restricted FAs without draft picks to offer. It’s not discussed much on this blog, but I would really like for the Bears to sign a veteran QB as a backup. Nothing against Caleb, but Cutler needs the interaction with someone who has been there before. At the very least, an ex-NFL Qb on the coaching staff.
by rocko1 on Oct 24, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
orton's a good QB
denver’s o-line and talent on offense is helping, but i don’t think anyone who watched him play pre-injury last year didn’t think he was a quality player. cutler is in another league, and i don’t see why people can’t realize that, but that doesn’t mean kyle orton sucks. orton is why we got cutler.
by guy incognito on Oct 24, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Below the shoulder pads
I agree about Orton. Cutler is as good as any below the shoulder pads, but needs improvement on his skills above. Imo, these would include reading the defense, making adjustments/audibles at the lines of scrimmage, composure, leadership, decision making, etc.. These are skills just like arm strength and mobility. Some would argue that they are the most important skills for a QB.
by rocko1 on Oct 24, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
needs improvement above?
everyone can and should work to improve themselves but what has he done wrong in so far? Cutler has all the above shoulder pad strengths you speak of. We have seen that through the season. its just hard to keep consistent when people are chasing you every play. the guys been sacked what? 10 times this season? and that isnt counting the sacks missed because of his mobility and quick release. He’s got the leadership and brain to play this game just like orton does, he just lacks the protection to use it effectively.
by GtM on Oct 24, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that the line needs improvement
It’s killing team and Cutler will not make it through the season if the crappy protection doesn’t improve. Jerrod Allen must be counting the days until the first Vikings game. As far as Jay goes, he’s very young at 26 and just in his fourth year, so most of what I mentioned above is a function of experience. He gets careless with the ball at times, and that is the biggest area that needs improvement. As much as I loved to watch the rushing TD he scored against the Lions, I hope he saves the next one for the playoffs. We need JC to stay healthy.
by rocko1 on Oct 24, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is starting to veer towards
a conversation that should be happening here
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 24, 2009 9:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the best part about this
is i still don’t think you get it.
by mike b on Oct 24, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From reading the threads,
he gets it 60% of the time.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Oct 24, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here is a hint for you
in your free time, try going to www.dictionary.com and searching the word “exaggeration” … let me know what you are able to find
by brands735 on Oct 24, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah yeah yeah
post more links, talk more shit, blah, blah, blah.
looking up “bullshit” would be more accurate.
by mike b on Oct 24, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you look it up?
saying “shit” is cool. whats next, yo momma?
by brands735 on Oct 25, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
then don't read it. The fact is these players like Orton and Benson seem really happy on the sidelines and happy to be out of the Chicago Bears organization
Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year
by angryandy on Oct 25, 2009 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't necessarily agree with everything that is in this post but many of you are mis-reading some of it as well.
He never says Orton is a better QB than Cutler, just that he is outplaying him this year, which by his record and stats, is true. I will never understand why you can’t give Orton credit for what he is doing and that the ONLY reason for his success is his o-line and receivers, yet that same o-line and receivers were ONLY successful last year because Jay made them successful! That’s ridiculous. Granted the Denver defense has shown up big time this year and is the major reason they are 6-0, but Orton has been outstanding, and yes, given the same set of circumstances Jay would probably have been just as successful, but stop acting like Kyle’s just “lucky” that his o-line and receivers are performing. Jay’s receivers are also performing very well but his line and running game stinks, again, not his fault, but I’d be willing to bet that many of you, if Orton were still the QB, would be blaming the poor running game on the fact that Kyle can’t throw downfield. Stop this stupid Kyle has no talent, it’s everything else about Denver’s team that makes them good and everything Jay did as a Bronco was great and he “made” his receivers, obviously that was a pretty good group if a “slug” like Orton can make them successful as well. What a bunch of crap!
And please stop making Thomas Jones out to be a combination of Walter Sayers or Gale Payton, he was an average back at best, which is why we took Benson with the 4th pick and it’s pretty well documented that he’s been a jerk in the clubhouse at virtually every stop he’s made. Benson was immature and didn’t handle himself well, that is true, but if our coaching staff would have put him in his place and stopped Jones’ clubhouse lawyering, maybe circumstances would have been different. We’ll never know, but I have to agree with the comments about our coaches not doing their job. If you say they weren’t at fault but then make the claim Benson was handed the starting job, you’re contradicting yourself.
Didn’t mean to go off on a Geo-like rant, but this subject is getting very tiring.
by BearFan611 on Oct 24, 2009 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Never said that the coaches weren't at fault....
my issue was with the idea that poor little Benson was somehow the victim here.
by Ortons Neckbeard on Oct 24, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he was a victim either, but we all have to remember these are very young kids coming out of college
and some of them don’t have the interpersonal skills to deal with the intense media / millionaire status / big city pressures. I believe that is part of the coaching staff’s responsibility to try to put these kids in the right position to succeed, not only on the field but in the locker room as well. Afterall, the team makes a huge investment in these high draft picks. Handing him a job or letting Jones act like an ass toward him would be something the coaches should have stepped in and changed on the first day. Not only with Benson, but any rookie.
That’s not to say Benson wouldn’t have still been a tool, but maybe we would have saved everyone a lot of grief.
by BearFan611 on Oct 24, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well stated
The bottomline is that the Bears wasted the #4 pick of the draft. Rec’d.
by rocko1 on Oct 24, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't apologize for a Geo-like rant BF611
However, you just ‘barely’ touched on something most Bronco fans refuse to acknowledge.
The fact that Orton’s defense in Denver is ranked #1, while Cutlers was ranked #28 & #30.
That’s a monumental difference. The phrase ‘night & day’ was INVENTED for things like that.
And yes, the coaches should’ve/could’ve done more with regards to Benson’s lack of maturity.
But that’s the problem with a ‘players coach’ like Lovie Smith.
But it’s in his talk of ‘hazing’ whereby angryandy reveals his COMPLETE ignorance (and I do mean complete).
In the long, storied history of the Chicago Bears, no player pulled more pranks or did more hazing that the late, great Walter Payton.
Oh God, andy’s too funny. I actually feel sorry for people that clueless. Really. I do.
by GeoMak on Oct 24, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense meant, Geo
I don’t even pay attention to most of the Bronco fans, but it’s the Bear fans who talk out of both sides of their mouths that get to me. When they say that Cutler made his receivers last year, then turn right around and say those same receivers are making Orton is absolutely ridiculous. Then when our receivers are jumping all over the place to make catches on some very tough passes by Cutler, no one is saying a word. Then they talk about how good the Bronco line is, which it is, but they act as if Orton shouldn’t be taking advantage of that and should wait until the pass rush gets closer, just so they can more closely compare him to Jay.
You and I have had a discussion several weeks ago on a post regarding QB’s and we spoke of Marino’s place in history. If I remember correctly, we had a similar opinion that Marino might be the greatest passer in history, but that doesn’t make him the best QB. Right now, just based on the overall performances and what they’ve done with the tools that are available to them, the argument can be made that Orton is every bit the “QB” that Cutler is. Jay has superior physical skills to be sure and, hopefully as the Bears put a better team around him, he will become the total QB we all think he can be. As we’ve both stated in many different posts, the bottom line is winning games, and Kyle has the advantage in that area. Jay still has to prove he can make a team into a winner. I strongly believe he will do that, but until we have a winning season with Jay behind center, it will always remain to be seen.
As I’ve said several times, I really like Cutler and am happy he’s on the Bears, but people shouldn’t denegrate Orton’s performance so they can feel better about their own team.
by BearFan611 on Oct 24, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
None taken BF611
I think we’d all agree that Kyle is a very good QB. I think the change of scenery has helped him, as does being with ‘Tom Brady’s coach’ and having statistically the best defense in the NFL, so far this season
So far McDaniels seems to be succeeding where most Belichick disciples seem to fail. Time will tell.
Cutler is kind of ‘Favre like.’ And people have overlooked all of Brett’s INT’s because he was exciting to watch, won a ton of games, and won a SB.
Cutler has to win a ton of games and a SB. If he does, who cares how many INT’s he throws.
If he doesn’t, the trade was for naught.
by GeoMak on Oct 24, 2009 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
@Geo: Why would Broncos fans refuse to acknowledge that our defense is ranked #1? It’s a fact that we’re quite proud of actually.
@BearFan: Nice post man. I think Cutler may have said it best when he said, ""This league is funny. It’s all about timing. You could be one of the best players in the league but if you’re not in the right system, you don’t have the right people around you, there’re a lot of different aspects that go into making a player or breaking a player. It’s working for Kyle. It’s working for Josh, and it’s working for the Broncos. They’ve got a good thing going." Obviously there are a lot of factors working in Orton’s favor right now…AND he’s also playing some pretty good football.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Oct 25, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to be fair to Orton the Bears weren’t exactly a defensive powerhouse last year. They were 21st in yards allowed and 16th in points.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Oct 25, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yards allowed in meaningless
That’s why it’s called a SCOREBOARD. (All that really matters is how many POINTS a team scores . . . and allows).
In Cutler’s two full seasons in Denver (2007/2008) the Bears were rankd 16th both seasons in ‘points allowed’ on defense; the Bronco’s 28th/30th.
If we’re giving out letter grades, that’s two ’C’s’ for the Bears, two ’F’s’ for Denver.
Big, big difference between an average defense and a terrible defense.
You’re welcome (I am always happy to help educate the less knowledgable).
by GeoMak on Oct 25, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s up your butt?
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Oct 25, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just hate NONSENSE Poster
When you question me be prepared.
YOU made this comment:
Geo: Why would Broncos fans refuse to acknowledge that our defense is ranked #1? It’s a fact that we’re quite proud of actually.
Go back to MHR and look through my many posts there and TRY to find an example of a Bronco fan talking about the defense during one of our exchanges.
Don’t spend too much time looking. It’s not there.
They might acknowledge their #1 defense all day long . . . just NOT as how it relates to the difference between Orton @ QB and Cutler @ QB.
Get it?
Again, according to most there, Cutler ALWAYS killed them (and it had nothing to do with the pathetic defense on the team) and Orton is one step away from being Tom Brady (and his performance isn’t enabled at all by their defense).
by GeoMak on Oct 25, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get why your posts are so hostile. It’s just football man…RELAX!!!
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Oct 25, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's simple
In life (here and elsewhere (like say politics)) I can respect ‘differences of opinions’ . . . if they are based on FACTS and are accurate.
Disagree with me all you want . . . just be accurate.
by GeoMak on Oct 25, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think I said anything that wasn’t accurate.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Oct 25, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm sure you did Poster (Duh!)
Allow me to repeat:
Why would Broncos fans refuse to acknowledge that our defense is ranked #1? It’s a fact that we’re quite proud of actually.
You couldn’t be more wrong, my good friend.
This post is about Orton ‘thriving’ outside of Chicago.
From my own personal experience (which is why I made the comment, the very comment you topok exception to) Bronco fans make almost NO mention of the ‘differing defense’ fwhen discussing the two QB’s.
That is where/why you are innacurate.
by GeoMak on Oct 25, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are many things that have a hand the success Kyle is having..
.. The coaching (Kyle himself has that that he has learnt more in Denver in 4 months than he has in 4 years with the bears.), the O-line, the receivers.. The defense also has a big impact.. see my post here on the subject of complimentary football.. Or this series of posts by lebowskibronco.
You ask for one example of acknowledgement about how the D helps Kyle out.. I can think of many..
What you seem to be failing to understand is that the Jay Cutler trade upset a lot of Broncos fans.. They didn’t like how Jay handled the situation, they didn’t like the situation itself.. There was a lot of doubt about how this trade would end up.. from broncos fans as well as other fans and professional analysts/commentators. Many fans from other teams.. (quite a few bears fans) stopped by MHR to let us know how screwed we where and how shopping Jay was the biggest mistake in the history if the universe.
Some of the MHR faithful didn’t believe the negativity that was being spewed about the broncos and had faith in McDaniels and his ‘plan’, some did believe it and wanted McDaniels fired for the events of this off-season. Those two sides have come back together (many due to us winning) and joined forces against the ‘doubters’ outside of the broncos fan base.. So can you really be surprised that they are going out of there way to tell the people who doubted them how wrong they were?
Jay Cutler is a big part of this subject and in a lot of ways him struggling in Chicago on occasions proves the many nay sayers wrong in that the broncos can succeed without him and that he wasn’t the only reason why the broncos won some games last year.. Credit must also go to an O-line that is arguably one of the best in the league.. and a solid group of wrs.. He obviously wasn’t the reason why we didn’t make the play offs last year but he did play a part in it in many of last seasons games.. Turnovers = losses and Jay does throw a pick or two occasionally.
Personally I’m not here to gloat.. I wish Jay well.. after this year.. (higher draft pick for us).. I think he has heaps of talent.. but he needs to improve his decision making to excel..
As for Kyle he is improved in many areas from last year.. yes the team as a whole and it performance has an effect on his play but the fact that his only pick this year was on a hail mary that didn’t really effect the game. He makes smart reads, gets rid of the ball when no one is open and generally gets the ball to where t needs to be with minimal risk.. I don’t see how any of that has to do with the D playing well.. those are skills that a qb should possess to play the position well.. see Peyton Manning.. you wouldn’t argue that his success is due to the Colts D?
I agree with a post elsewhere on this site that Denver fans boasting about the trade after a tough loss for the bears is not the most respectful thing to do.. and i would urge those fans to give you guys a break..
I for one hope you have better team wide effort against cleveland.. which is a probably win.. The key as i see it is not relying on Jay Cutlers arm alone to win game.. the D must be on form.. (Tough break on Losing Urlacher early btw).. Knox or Hester need to get going on special teams and the O needs to be more balanced with the O-line getting it’s act together..
sorry about the long post it kind of got away from me..
by HorseStance on Oct 26, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are not very informed when it comes to cutlers time in Denver
The truth is you probably never watched Cutler play before he was traded to the bears. I will agree that the Defense in Denver was Horrible the last few years and they did not help however Cutler was a big part of the D being so bad. His INT and Fumbles put the defense in bad situations and gave the opposing team very good field position. Culter has a knack for throwing picks in the red zone and pick 6 close to his end zone. The fact is Cutler was very overrated by the MSM while he was in Denver. The TRUTH is he has not progressed at all since the beginning of last year. He still has throws into double or triple coverage, he still locks on to one WR a lot, His footwork still sucks and throws off his back foot way to often. All these reasons lead to all the interceptions he throws. He also really needs to learn how to take a sack and not throw it to a WR that is completely covered. Now Cutler does have all the physical gifts and can make plays sometimes that just have that WOW factor. He does not have the mental make up to become the elite QB in this league and he has proven that by not progressing at all the last few years. If Cutler was still in Denver we would not be 6-0 and if Orton was still in Chicago you would probably still be 3-3.
It is also a completely false statement to say the only reason Denver is 6-0 only because of our Defense. It is a reason but Orton has been playing great this season and is in the discussion for MVP. It is sad that some people on this site cannot admit that Orton is a pretty damn good QB. He was just drafted into a horrible situation in Chicago. His skills are better suited for Denver’s offense and not Chicago’s. You need to get you facts straight before you start talking about Denver the last few years because I guarantee that Posternutbag and every over at MHR know a shit load more then you do on that subject. The reason people are abrasive with you when you come to MHR is because you try to talk about the Broncos the past few seasons like you know more the the fans that have watched every game Cutler has ever played as a Bronco. You also come over there saying we are only 6-0 because of our Defense which is a completely ignorant comment.
by gnarlybroncodude on Oct 25, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, I hope you guys do well the rest of the season
by BearFan611 on Oct 25, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks man. I wish I could say the same but our 1st round draft pick next year is contingent on the Bears record. ;-)
I hope you beat the AFC teams at least.
"C" is for Championship...that's good enough for meeeee!!!
by PosterNutbag on Oct 25, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
Look. Here’s the deal. In virtually EVERY exchange that I was a part of regarding ‘Cutler v. Orton’ the defense was almost NEVER mentioned.
Do you hear me now?
It was ‘Cutler ALWAYS killed us with HIS stupid mistakes, especially in the Red-Zone. Orton doesn’t do that."
Do you see ANY mention there of the difference between Cutler playing with a 28th/30th ranked defense and Orton with a #1 defense?"
Didn’t think so.
by GeoMak on Oct 25, 2009 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who screwed who?
Benson was the one who did the screwing.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
by propheteer on Oct 24, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW Polish sausage
if you were a big time running back and not getting the ball you would complain too. As a fourth pick CB should of been getting the load of the running plays. Cedric was treated crappy by jerk teammates that you can identify with
Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year
by angryandy on Oct 25, 2009 7:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why are you posting on something you know nothing about?
You read about this in an article and act like you’ve been watching the Bears religiously since he was drafted like most of us have on this site. Since when was Benson a “big-time” running back in his rookie season? He’s still not a big-time RB! Would you complain about being in a tandem with a good veteran RB during a Super Bowl season? He was drafted to eventually take over as starting RB because of Thomas Jones’ contract complaints, but you wouldn’t know that either would you. The problem with some rookies is the fact that they need to allow themselves to learn from others and game experience without being so damn overconfident in their abilities. The NFL isn’t the NCAA. Benson was given the starting job by the Bears and he blew it along with doing everything in his abilities to be cut from the team. You act like Benson is such a victim when the guy has reaped exactly what he has sown. Go talk about Peyton Manning, Colts fan.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Oct 25, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea Cedric ran all over the bears defense like I said
This move will come back to haunt the Bears organization along with Orton. I am glad they are free of this current Bears organization that allows cliquish bullying and hazeing
Soccer is for people to small and wussy for real football
Yankees and Red Sox ...buying your way into playoffs every year
by angryandy on Oct 26, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great players SHUT their mouths
and do their talking ‘on-the-field.’
They play so well that they make it IMPOSSIBLE for their coaches to NOT play them.
See? So simple a Caveman can do it.
by GeoMak on Oct 25, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good grief
Kyle Orton is a system quarterback having a nice season playing behind a solid offensive line and with offensive weapons aplenty. So friggin what…Jay Cutler is many times the QB than Orton. Get back to us in 10 years when evaluating the NFL impact of Cutler versus Orton. The analysis won’t even be close.
Cedric Benson was an uninterested punk who worked his ass off at Texas to ensure a good NFL contract, then proceeded to retire in place in Chicago. He’s a disease who couldn’t stand the work ethic and respect that Thomas Jones had. I’d rather have no running versus the presence of Benson.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
by BLou on Oct 25, 2009 2:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Orton prior to his injury last year was having a good season and was right outside the top ten at this point in the season
The bears didnt have a good line last year and didnt have any receivers either and yet he was putting up similar numbers last year. The Bears were 3-3 last year but that was on the last second lots to ATL and they had momentum on their way to 5-3 while this year they are 3-3 and are sliding
by Hoopforia on Oct 25, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is where you are wrong Orton is not a system QB
He just got drafted by a team that can not develop and offensive talent, especially drafting a developing a QB. Orton took 99% if his snaps in college out of the shotgun. Chicago asked him to come in and work from center a majority of the time. That is the reason Orton got such a bad rap with fans like you. There is not such thing as a system QB in the NFL. I agree that Cutler can throw the ball harder and farther then Orton but that does not make him a better QB. All you bears fans that came to MHR and said Orton can not throw it over 15 yards were completely wrong. I have watched every Bronco game this year and he has made plenty of ACCURATE throws over 15 yards. Orton may not have the arm strength that make people believe Cuter is a so called “Franchise QB” but he can make all the Throws. We will sure get back to you in 10 years and see who had a better NFL career. So far Ortons NFL Career has been better then Cutlers. Orton 28-12 Cutler 20-23. QB’s careers in the NFL are measured on WINS AND LOSSES and not yards. Orton already has a huge lead on Cutler when it comes to a better career. He may not have the stats Cutler has but the only stat that matters is Wins. You are right the analysis will not be close however it will be in favor of Orton. They will be talking about Ortons SB wins and Cutlers INT. Some people are just WINNERS and that is something Cutler has not been since he was in High school
by gnarlybroncodude on Oct 25, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
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