Is This A Must Win For Lovie?
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 28, 2009 1:01 PM CDT
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After two straight loses, in 2 games that on paper at least seemed winnable, the Bears need to circle the wagons as they get set to host the 1-6 Cleveland Browns. The Bears seemed unprepared the last two weeks, and that is inexcusable. Against Atlanta their no huddle offense seemed to confuse the Bears defense and against Cincinnati the entire team was flat out outplayed.
The phrase "must win game" is thrown around nearly every week, but I've felt all along that this was a make or break season for Lovie Smith, and that missing the playoffs again would come with consequences. So with that being said; Is this a must win for Lovie Smith?
I think it is. I think this is the single most important game in his Head Coaching career. At this point in the season, after those 2 heartbreaking loses, losing to a bad Browns team would spell doom for Smith. Jerry Angelo has already planted the seeds of his disappointment with the coaching staff. What would a loss to the one win Browns in Soldier Field do to the team? To the organization? To the fans?
If the Bears somehow look as unready as they have the last couple weeks and lose to Cleveland how can Angelo justify not making a change?
I like Lovie Smith, I've supported Lovie Smith, I even like the concepts of his defensive philosophy, but I also think he needs a win this week to save his job.
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I wouldn't call it "Must Win"
I’d call it a better win!
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
Sad part is.....
If they do lose (god, i hope they dont), but if they do, I still thnk there will be no moves made, no changes made as far as coaching staff goes. Lovie can do all the rearrangements of the personnel he wants, but if he doesnt squeeze out a win with whoever plays at whatever position, then I think he seriously needs to be reprimanded, somehow, someway….After all, I dont think a loss to the browns at 1-6 could even come close to the embarassment he provided us the prior 2 weeks….Lovie should be praying that the borwns dont get any lucky breaks sunday!
P.S……..IT IS A MUST WIN NO MATTER HOW MUCH LOVIE DOWN PLAYS IT
by chi_till_eye_die on Oct 30, 2009 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I feel it's a must win...
But that’s because I picked Da Bears in the survivor pool this week.
So, I’m thinking that’s a totally different type of must-win than what you’re asking.
When you go to somebody's house, you don't crap on their floor. Being a fan of one team does NOT give you license to be a dick to fans of another.
Corollary: When people are visiting your house and behaving themselves, them being a fan of a different team is NOT a reason for you to piss in their beer.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
my take
I think it is a must-win for those who thought the Bears were playoff bound this season, but after Urlacher went on IR I was not among them (yeah, I know that placing such importance on Urlacher is not “derigger” but I think the idea is gaining traction). I don’t think that winning or losing this game will matter over the course of the season as far as Coach Smith losing his job, but the final record will matter, and the standings in the division. I think Coach Smith is on shaky ground since Babich can’t be blamed for a bad D any more, but in truth Jerry Angelo is just as much if not more, to blame for the entire decline.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
If they lose this game, they don't make the playoffs this year.
So from that stand-point – yes, it’s a must win for the team.
But with the McCaskeys and JA firmly in place, $11 million and 2 years left on his contract, Lovie’s not going anywhere. Now, if Dan Snyder was the owner, yes Lovie would definately be on the hot seat.
I hear ya
it’s sad enough that a players contract usually will dictate that he plays, but with the Bears a coaches contract dictates that he stays
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 28, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
agree
I agree with the exception that if the Bears (God forbid) were to lose all or most of their remaining games, Coach Smith would be fired and deservedly so. I think Angelo would hang on beyond Smith’s tenure, like our own personal Matt Millen.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
3 strikes in a row and you're out Lovie
Better get your team “ready” this week
The Browns are one of the sorriest teams in the NFL.
If the Bears lose Sunday, Lovie Smith should be fired on his way back to the locker room.
A process server should intercept him on the way back and slip him a piece of paper that says: “You’re FIRED!”
Or Donald Trump can buy the Bears...
and have his office (or a reasonable faximile) placed in the locker room and he can give Lovie the “You’re Fired” and a flick of his hand.
But since DT won’t be buying the Bears this week, I think Lovie is save for now…
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Oct 28, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Most definitely
If it’s not a “must win” game, then there’s more wrong with this franchise than what we already know.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
Agree times 3
JimmyMack – you’re right. The Bears need to win against Cleveland or making the playoffs is simply out of the question, but Lovie still won’t be going anywhere.
GeoMak – Yes, if the Bears lose to Cleveland Lovie should be fired, but… see JimmyMack.
propheteer – there is more wrong than appears on the surface.
by Fire Ron Turner on Oct 28, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions
I'm guessing
RT is first on your hit list?
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
RT has been on my hitlist
since the 90’s, and again in 2005. Would solve the problems of 2009? No. I don’t thin any ONE thing will solve 2009…
by Fire Ron Turner on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
The Bears dominated the NFL in the 80's
with two ‘hard nosed, tough as nails’ coaches (Mike Ditka & Buddy Ryan).
Since that time, the McCaskey’s have gone to coaches who are NOTHING like those guys (Wannstedt, Jauron, Lovie).
That makes NO sense to me.
Look at the NY Giants. They won two SB’s with Bill Parcells. After going throught the likes of Ray Handley (terrible), Dan Reeves (good) and Jim Fassell (average) they again won the SB a few years ago under Tom Coughlin.
(From Wiki): Coughlin was mentored by Bill Parcells while Coughlin was wide receivers coach and Parcells was head coach for the New York Giants.
Like his mentor, Coughlin is known as a stern disciplinarian and for his meticulous attention to detail, earning him the nickname “Colonel Coughlin”.
There’s an idea. Just looked towards the Giants for some guidance and inspiration.
Hire a HC in the mold of the last guys to bring you a Lombardi Trophy (Ditka & Ryan).
NOT the opposite kind of guy.
Sadly
Bears ownership is not that intelligent
by CutlerDabears on Oct 28, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Bears ownership
I would rather see Rush Limbaugh run our team.
by boondock_saint812 on Oct 28, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
how about Mark Cuban?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
That would be nice.
At least he’d spend money to bring some talent in.
by boondock_saint812 on Oct 28, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
and you know
he’s got heart, and when needed, a little yelling at the refs… that’s what i call involvement
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
There's that young head coach out in SF that would have
…looked good in Bears Blue……..let’s see, what was his name????
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Oct 28, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
This could only be called a must win.
If you look at wins and losses as a measuring stick then a loss to a woeful Browns team AT HOME would be devastating to ANY organization. Good teams beat average teams and average teams beat bad ones. What would that say about the Bears if they lose to a bad team at home? Worse than bad? This is a must win.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
Cleveland will not be a cakewalk.
They held Benson to 74 yards, and shut down Cincy’s WRs completely.
Anderson also was able to throw against that Cincy defense that shut us down. He had 269 yards and a TD, with Massoquoi pulling in 148 yards worth. Jerome Harrison also had over 120 yards rushing against Cincy.
Bottom line:
Even though the Browns lost that game, it went into overtime. The offense of Cincy that walked all over the Bears were neutralized by the Browns defense.
The defense of Cincy that shut down our offense got hammered by the Browns.
Luckily, we play in Chicago.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
You are correct.
This game will not be a easy one. I think it will be a lot like the Detroit game. Massoquoi and Robiskie will have a field day with our secondary. Anderson will have the best game of his career.
by boondock_saint812 on Oct 28, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
yes, valid
but you also cannot discount the fact that it’s divisional football for Cleveland/Cincy…different game totally a la Bears/Packers
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
I don’t know about that. Maybe, maybe not.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
point of reference: 2007, packers end up 13-3, bears, 7-9..we played some awful football, but managed to beat the eventual NFC champion contender, who played lights out, not once, but twice.
2005: en route to our playoffs we faced the packers at the end of december, and that was a close game that we almost lost, and the packers were like 3-11 at the time.
i have no idea the history between Cle/Cincy, but i have to imagine it unfolds very much like this
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
In 2008 the Lions were the worst team in NFL history
and the Vikings made the playoffs.
The Vikings twice beat Detoit that season by a combined 6 points.
The beat the Lions by 2 in Minnesota and by 4 in Detroit.
Lest we forget...
…the margin of victory in the 2-point win was the safety when Dan Orlovsky ran behind the white line.
LOL
Any Given Sunday
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Right BN
Beyond that, Matt Taibbi wrote a recent article In Rolling Stone ripping Mangini and the Browns.
You know you really suck when Rolling Stone starts ripping into you.
This game is the very definition of ‘No -Win.’
If they beat the Browns (even by 50) it’s like “Big Deal. They beat one of the most pathetic teams in the NFL at home.”
If they lose? Oh brother. That could get real ugly.
it's must win
but it doesn’t say anything.
Cardinals, 49ers, Eagles, Vikings… those are the next 4 games after the Browns.
The Cardinals who are quietly playing good football right now, should scare the crap out of us, the 49ers are playing hard football
if the good Eagles show up, we don’t stand a chance, i dont care if they lost to the Raiders, they can score with the best of ’em, and against our D… it could be another Cincy game
and well the Vikings, they also are playing good football, except they have better D than the Eagles.
all 4 of these games AFTER the Browns, are must wins. can we win 5 in a row? i’m a bears fan, sure, but even i don’t know that i can logically say yes.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
They are a professional football team.
Of course they have talent, but their offense has been very poor this season. They have the third lowest scoring offense in the league behind only Oakland and St Louis and they allow the 7th most points in the league. This is a team that the Bears should beat and if we have aspirations of any kind at all, we should beat them handily. Especially at home. I know “any give Sunday” but if our team isn’t prepared (for the 3rd game in a row) for this matchup HEADS SHOULD ROLL!.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
Very true.
I was just using the Cincy game as a comparison because we have both played the Bungles recently.
Who would call the defense if Lovie got magically canned? Babich! And Marinelli would become the de facto HC! Oh my…
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
you don't think
Marinelli is being groomed for the DC job anyways?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
He has never been a DC on the collegiate
or NFL level. Always defensive line/ Asst. HC (except for in Det.). He’s a technique guy, a DL guru… not an overall defensive scheme guy.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
didnt know that
good point.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Everybody has to start somewhere
Buddy Ryan was the D-Line coach for the Jets and the Vikings before being named DC of the Bears in 1978.
Ummm
Okay?
Do you know if Marinelli has a Defense? Maybe the Tampa-2?
Seems like to me if Marinelli was going to be a DC, it would have happened already. He gets the Asst. HC title for salary purposes, so I’m not sure about him ever being a DC.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
Marinelli has always been a part of
the Tampa 2, starting, of course, with his days in Tampa Bay.
Just trying to point out that it’s a natural progression from position coach to coordinator. He may not have made the transition because he hasn’t wanted to. Maybe because people above him have perceived that he wouldn’t succeed there.
Personally, I don’t know.
Besides that, any these poisition coaches (as well as the players themselves) should know exactly where all the other guys on the defense are and what their responsibility is.
Did he run the Tampa 2 in Detroit?
He should be familiar enough with it after his time in Tampa and now in Chicago anyway.
Look, the scheme kind sucks, IMO
It’s a ‘soft, bend-don’t break, defense’ and most defensive players want to play ‘all out, balls to the wall’ defense. They want to attacke, as opposed to being the opnes who are attacked.
Look at Championship Sunday last season. Four teams (Steelers, Ravens, Eagles and Cards).
Three of them (Steelers, Ravens, Eagles) play some of the most aggressive defenses in the NFL.
The Cardinals? After coming within 2:37 of winning the SB, HC Ken Whisenhunt fired DC Clancy Pendergast and replaced him with Bill Davis.
You usually don’t hear of a team firing their DC after a SB appearance.
Whisenhunt wanted Davis to run a more aggresive scheme, ala Dick LeBeau’s ‘Zone Blitz’.’ Davis previously had coached on the defensive side of the ball in Pittsburgh before in the early 90’s.
So far this season Davis has the Cardinal defense ranked #7 (last season they ranked 28th). During the offseason I caught a long interview with him on the the radio. He made it crystal clear that he wanted his defense to do three things:
1. Be aggressive.
2. Be aggressive.
3. Be aggressive.
He couldn’t have been any clearer about his intentions here.
Look at the Saints
They were 26th in team defense last season.
They hire DC Gregg Williams who is a Buddy Ryan disciple.
They are currently ranked 13th and are being given a lot of credit for the Saints season so far.
I agree with you, I was asking the question in response to GeauxBears comments
Marinelli being able to take over the DC job.
what are your thoughts on a highly unlikely 3-4 switch
I read a lot on here, about not having the personnel to do it, but i have to disagree… they are all pro atheletes, and our defense is “built” on speed, so a 4 LB set would work IMO, based on undersized quick lineman, wouldn’t, or shouldn’t, that translate nicely into a OLB position?
we would need a massive NT, but other than that, you have Gaines Adams who could move to OLB, keep Briggs, Urlacher in ILB, and then a couple FA aqusitions and a coaching change, and you have yourself a decent 3-4
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Honestly
I’m not a coach and I don’t consider myself smart enough for a lot of this discussion. I am with you here:
they are all pro atheletes, and our defense is "built" on speed, so a 4 LB set would work IMO, based on undersized quick lineman, wouldn’t, or shouldn’t, that translate nicely into a OLB position?
They need to do something going forward. They probably have the most phyically talented QB ever in franchise history, and his skill set will be wasted unless and until they get it together.
All I know is that we once dominated the NFL with tough coaches and probably the most agressive defense in NFL history.
Since then we’ve almost made a concerted effort to ‘do the opposite.’ I’m sorry. That makes no sense to me.
and a coaching change
Unlikely, sadly…..
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
i meant defensively
I know Lovie isn’t going anywhere
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Right
Pat Bowlen fires a guy who was almost like his best friend and a brother to him (Mike Shanahan) with something like 20 million left on his contract (or some other ridiculous number).
End result? So far 6-0 and the talk of the league.
That’s right. We can’t have something like that happen in Chicago!
Oy vey.
Bears losing
is not an option this weekend, but when they win, it still doesnt signify any turn around.
and god forbid they don’t, like said before, Love should be fired immediately, and i think some players should be too.
that should be written into players/coachers contracts… “underperforming reserves us the right to dock your pay”
imagine that, miss a tackle, 5 grand less this week.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Then you'd
end up with base salaries of 200 million or so, since it’s all performance related. It’s already going to be scary with the chance of an uncapped year…
but at least players
would be fighting each other to make plays
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
How long
until they start taking each other out on plays so they can score the payday?
Interesting idea, but there would be a lot of work involved to prevent stuff like that before it was viable.
yeah i hadn't thought it all the way through
but something to light a fire
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't doubt it
What I do know is that if we lose on Sunday then we don’t deserve to be in the playoffs, regardless of our record. Given what’s happened the past few weeks and the obvious issues in Cleveland, if the Bears can’t dominate this one, then we don’t deserve it. Though a blowout win still wouldn’t prove anything to me about our season prospects, I do think it’s important to play great for the team’s confidence — they know better than any of us what a playoff team looks like – i.e. dominate crappy teams like Cleveland, especially at home after an unbelievably embarassing loss. If we lose this one or even if we win in a tight one, I am very scared for how these guys will react moving forward.
by Sweetness Never Dies on Oct 28, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course it's a must win!
First off, it’ll help the team go above .500 and snap the two-game losing streak.
Second, their offense is putrid. Chicago’s > Buffalo’s, no question.
Must I go further?
Derek Anderson
i would go as far as to say that if he completes more than 13 passes for more than 100 yards…we fail as a defense
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions
It's a "We Better Freakin' Win" game for the Bears
But not a ‘must-win’ for Lovie Smith – I am in the camp that believes there is no way he gets canned given the remaining terms of his contract. My personal take is that he needs to win a playoff game, not just get there, to justify his staying on….but what do I know…..doesn’t seem to matter to ownership what the fans think about this.
by Sweetness Never Dies on Oct 28, 2009 3:20 PM CDT reply actions
This is a must win,
for myself as much as Lovie. I was pissed to the high heavens after last week, but that would be nothing compared to losing to the Browns. Think about how bad we looked last week, and realize that that type of play is the norm for Cleveland. Any team that can’t beat the Browns should be demoted to the NCAA.
Metal sharpens metal.
And this guy right here understands and knows what leadership is all about: The coach, the hall of famer......... Dick Butka! George Ryan
Looking at this from a slightly different angle...
I could see where, if we lose to the Browns, especially after the beating last week, the Lovie supporters could make the argument that it’s more the talent (lack of it) than the coaching. Personally, I don’t think Smith is a good HC and I don’t care if you give him the ‘85 Bears, he’s find a way to screw it up,
I think the best guage to where this team really is will be if they beat the Browns without having to go to O.T. or a last second Robbie Gould FG and then see how prepared they are for the Cardinals. We should not have a problem winning this game (but as someone else stated “any given Sunday”), so I’d like to see how Lovie does in getting his team, that is supposed to be a playoff caliber group, ready for another playoff team.
or the 84 or even 86 bears
but aside… we should look like Cincy did against us…agains the Browns, 3 INT, some fumbles, bunch of TDs to pad the stats
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
This needs to be a “get back on track” game for the Bears. We need to play well and get our confidence back, a little bit.
Looking ahead, the game against Arizona is gonna be huge for us to really establish our identity on both sides of the ball.
if we give Warner time to throw
the game will be over in the 1st quarter
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Dickerson Tweet.
Dickerson just Tweeted that Beekman is expected to get reps with the first team this week.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/story?id=4602540&campaign=rss&source=CHICAGOHeadlines&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
by boondock_saint812 on Oct 28, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions
it's a must win for the bears...
but a “must prepare” for lovie. i really don’t want to hear him say…“i didn’t prepare the team”. wtf are the bears paying him to do? prepare the team…right?
It's not a must win for Lovie
It’s not a must win for Lovie but it should be. It’s not a must win because he has two years left on his contract with a lot of money still owed to him and the Bears brass don’t have the stones to fire him because if they do then they’ll hear the wrath of old lady McCaskey. We have coaches like Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan and Mike Holmgren just sitting there waiting and Bears braintrust is gonna let it slip away as usual. It’s disappointing because when they do fire Lovie Smith at the end of his deal, which is almost certain because Lovie doesn’t have the smarts to turn this thing around, we’ll end up with some position coach with no head coaching experience as the head coach of the Bears. It’s sad but true.
the lovie bandwagon...
im not jumping off quite yet. the man has brought us many memorable moments. especially against the packers. i know, i know…he also has given us some nightmares but im still not jumping off…yet.
He has given us some great memories like the Overtime win against NO last year. But there have been just as many fails in his time with the team. I will admit that he has done some good things for this team since the Dick Jaroun era.
it's like the qb situation...
we kept looking for the next great coach and lovie came around. he brought high hopes and, personally, i think he produced. the bad part now is that…we haven’t gotten better. we seem to be the same team year in and year out with the ocassional glimmer of greatness. also…chicago is not used to his style of coaching and when you’re losing…that quiet (but deadly) style can get annoying and frustrating. SHOW SOME EMOTION!!
The only great memory I have of the Lovie Era is going to the Super Bowl. Then we lost and a lot of the reason why we lost that game is because of bad coaching. By no means am i letting the players off the hook because they played like garbage in that game. Sure, we can sit here all day and say things like “that OT win against Arizona in 2006 was thrilling” or this game and that game etc. It doesn’t matter. The Bears haven’t come close to winning the Super Bowl under Lovie Smith and they won’t win the Super Bowl as long as Lovie Smith is the head coach because of his stubbornness, his refusal to make weekly and in game adjustments. He gives players starting roles without earning them. His playcalling abilities are highly questionable as the Bears seem absolutely confused with him calling the defensive plays this year.
I know I’m really ragging on the guy but I’ve never been a fan of him since he was hired here, I know he turned around a very bad defense in St. Louis but he only made them average and I don’t think the work he did in St. Louis was enough at the time to put him in a position to be hired as a head coach for any NFL team. Just my two cents.
I personally felt like
the 05 defense was way more aggressive and fearsome, than the 2006 defense. we just had a little bit more offense and special teams to help boost us in 06.
that should have been the SB run, IMO. but yes, the first sign of Cover-2 failure, those plays where steve smith burned our corners, granted one of em fell down on one play, but the 10 yard off the LOS thing, will never work
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The defense
was fines in 06, until Mike Brown went down.
If and only If
If the we can somehow pull of the next three wins and get back to a decent 6-3 record I am pretty sure that the Bears will be a contender again. Smith’s job should be in turmoil right now. Last week was the most embarrassing loss that I have witnessed as a Bears fan. The Browns game should be a good pickup game but you never know what will happen in the NFL. We need this game and if we don’t get it changes need to be made. The hurry up has confused our offense and the play calling is ridiculous. Our D gets confused when they other teams do the Hurry up drills. We should be practicing this during the week. Get our schemes right. Teach the younger players the ropes and get them familiar with this. Drop the Tampa-2. Go back to “smash-mouth football”. Get the Running game going. Let Forte have 20 carries. A whole lot needs to be done though.
5 wins
let’s say 5 wins
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Re-evaluate
this is a must win SEASON for Love… just going over some old threads, and found one from Wiltfongjr about coaches pay, Lovie is the highest paid coach in the NFL??? and like top 5 in all sports? un real, and a must win season, not just game
Linky pop
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
"No offense intended" does not jive with posting in the heat of the moment.
by BearNecessities on Oct 28, 2009 4:42 PM CDT reply actions
Honestly
i still have faith in Cutler, and I think the team can still turn it around. But if they can’t beat Cleveland, forget the rest of the Season. If you lose to “2 out of 17” Derek Anderson, its over.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
Well..
Even Angelo’s time has to be ticking at least a little..he bought himself some with cutler and great late round draft finds..but our 1st rounders have blown pretty hard in recent years. Anyway, I respect lovie and what he does..if they had lost to the Bengals by say…7, I would have shrugged it off and said this this and this happened…but to lose THAT hard is inexcusable..period. so I would say yes, if they lose this game we may be seeing a new HC at the end of the year.
What i thought was interesting..
Was the chicagobears.com article with Jerry Angelo. He said he was surprised they were not able to make any adjustments the whole game. Now i didn’t hear his tone and i don’t claim to be a mind reader but just reading that sentence alone makes me think he was just as sick with that game as we were, more than likely a lot more. Is this a must win game for Lovie?
I would say of course, but the next 5 games i think will define his stones as a top paid coach. If he can “prepare” the Bears to be in a good position after this next 5 game stretch than he will not go anywhere for sure. now if they finish this 5 game stretch below 500…it;s curtains. No the McCaskeys wont fire him prolly, but after his next 2 years are up, unless he can win a Super Bowl he is gone.
Remember Tom Coughlin…before they won the Super Bowl a couple years ago he had one foot and half his right thigh out the door, he was gonna be gone in New York, He won a Super Bowl and that bought him 10 more years easy. Same situation as Lovie imo.
name one time he's ever prepared anything
when have the bears under lovie ever come out strong to start a game or to begin the second half (other than kick returns which have nothing to do with him)?
I feel you man
That’s why i hope this past week was a serious wake up call for him and the team in general. I’m tired of this 30 mins crap and getting told “We’re a second half team”, screw that, the game is 60 minutes long. They should watch tape of Troy Polumonu and see what it’s like to play hard for 60 minutes.
by Chitownproduct on Oct 30, 2009 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions
"I like Lovie Smith, I've supported Lovie Smith, I even like the concepts of his defensive philosophy"
wilt, please explain this statement. i am doumbfounded by this. it was plain to see even in ’06 that this man had no clue. he was only saved by miraculous performances by devin hester and mike brown, we could have easily been 9-7 that season and/or lost both of those playoff games. nothing but a fluke.
OK... I'll explain...
“I like Lovie Smith” - um… I like him… he’s a likeable guy…
“I’ve supported Lovie Smith” – ’I’ve supported’ is in the past tense, meaning in the past I’ve supported him, his overall record during his time in Chicago is good and in comparision with coaches in that same time frame he’s near the top. It’s all about the wins. But after the last two games I think he needs to show something.
“I even like the concepts of his defensive philosophy” – I like the Tampa 2 defense. If you have the right players to run the D it can be a successful. The D did go to a Super Bowl, only to lose to another Tampa 2 team. Right now the D is missing the best MLB for the D, the 3 Technique DT is playing hurt, and there is no playmaker saftey on the roster. He needs to mix things up a bit when he doesn’t have the horses.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 29, 2009 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
wilt
couple of questions. I too along with genetic was ‘dumbfounded’ by your comments.
I accept your answers to parts one & two (though I don’t necessarily agree with the second0.
That said:
A) Don’t the Chicago Bears, deserve a GREAT HC, and not just a good HC?
Why should we have a second rate HC (and that’s exactly what Lovie is. He might be ‘one of the best’ second rate HC’s, but he’s NOT a ‘first rate HC.’
B) Regarding the Tampa 2, as I posted elsewhere, three of the four teams last Championship Sunday (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia) play an agressive, blitizing defense, not a passive defense like the ‘Cover 2.’ The other team (Arizona) fired their DC to bring in a DC from the Dick LeBeau school of coaching.
That tells me something.
Yes, the Bears lost to another ‘Tampa 2’ in the SuperBowl, but that’s mainly because that team had one of the greatest QB’s in NFL history, not because they played the ‘Tampa 2.’
Hell, with Peyton Manning running the offense, ANY defense will suffice.
And genetic echos what I have always said . . . no Devin Hester, NO SB in 2006.
Geo
Wilt had a really nice article around June about the Tampa/Cover/Bear-2 and the skill set that goes with it.
and while i really like the idea of switching to the ever popular 3-4, if our defense was executing like it had in 05 – 06, none of us would be having this conversation.
TH, Urlahcer, and the vacancy Mike Brown have left, are the main reasons our Defense is struggling. when those three were on the field together and playing un-hurt, we were nye unstoppable.
Far as i know, Arizona still runs a 4-3? but they are way more aggressive, and don’t they lead the league for rushing D?
Hester definitely IMO was the difference maker on the superbowl
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 29, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
BN
Right.
If you’re winning, nobody cares what you run. If you’re not, however . . .
Last season AZ ran a 4/3 – 3/4 hybrid. Their biggest problem was inconsistency. The radio guys here talked endlessly about how the DC drove them crazy with comments like this: “EXCEPT for that 64 yard TD pass, our defense played really well.”
Or: “We played great the whole game . . EXCEPT for a few plays” (the plays that got them beat).
And so on. As I stated elsewhere, Whisenhunt was so incensed about how Roethlisberger drove the Steelers downfield for the winning TD in the SB, and the corresponding breakdowns on defense during that drive (among others) that he fired his DC and made Bill Davis his new DC.
Yes they are #1 against the run and as I also stated elsewhere I caught Davis on the radio this offseason where he said that HIS defense was going to dictate to the offense, and not vice versa. they were going to be agressive, agressive and agressive.
That said, because the Cards SUCKED for so long, they usually drafted very high and have a lot of good young players on defense (Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, Cromartie, etc).
I’m just a believer in agressive defense.
Remember that playoff game in 2005 against Carolina when Steve Smith ran wild against us? Somebody brought that up recently.
That never would’ve happened against a guy like Buddy Ryan. Ryan would’ve had one or two guys take Smith out at the LOS and rushed eveybody else, if necessary.
They might’ve lost the game under Ryan but not because a little WR (great as he was) had 12 catches for 218 yards and two TD’s against them.
Everything becomes open to question when you’re defense plays as horribly as they did last Sunday – Scheme, coaching, pleyers etc.
I don’t wanna defend the Carolina game, but on both of those plays, didnt the CB fall down, or get tangled up with footwork?
Jamming the line probably would have nullified the need to turn and cover Smith, but we’ll never know.
so IMO, it wasn’t the coverage as much as a rookie(i think) getting caught up in the playoffs, and more than that, catching a bad patch of grass. (see: soldier field’s turf) pretty sure they were at home
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 29, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I was telling my friend on the phone
(he’s a 50+ year Bear fan and we would stay on the phone long distance for the entire game) that I’d put TWO guys on Smith (after awhile).
If that didn’t work I’d put three. After awhile (when a guy is having a HOF game against you) double or triple cover him and make somebody else beat you.
I mean, sometimes football is a pretty simple game. The best player for Carolina was Steve Smith. I’m gonna take him out of the game and make someone else beat me (if possible).
Certainly midway when he’s making my defense look STOOPID!
agreed
i think we grew over confident, in that we beat them earlier in the year
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 29, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
After awhile of that BS I was hoping for a "Tonya Harding.'
Somebody go out there and whack him in the knees with a club.
Something, ANYTHING . . . just stop this guy. We’re going to put him in the HOF with this game alone.
Don't agree with the second, ok, but...
It’s fact. Put his record up against head coaches in the same time frame he’s coached and he’s near the top.
I like the Tampa 2 D, with the right players it can be a success, and whan called at the right times. You don’t sit in it 100% of the time. Personally I’d mix in some 3-4 zone blitz schemes into the D. With athletic DE’s it could be done. But I’m not an NFL DC.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 30, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions
It is...But..it isnt
because people like the McCaskey clan have no football sense, only dollars and cents. These are very rich, thick skinned pencil necks, well I guess it was all given to Virginia and shes to old to care about the winning side of it all, if she/they ever did after the grand ol’ man died(GSH of course). As long as they own,Chicago will continue to groan my friends….
"most football players are temperamental, thats 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental" Doug Plank
Nice…
These are very rich, thick skinned pencil necks
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Oct 29, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't entirely agree
I think Virginia has a very deep, very profound love for the Bears, and wants them to win week in, week out to do right by her old man.
Watch her at a game, she’s at all the home events. She’s sitting right up by the glass with her Dr. Pepper watching the events on the field. Yhea, she’s old, yhea maybe she’s a little whacked out, but she’s always watching the game. You’ll see other owners spinning around and yukking it up (Mr. Jones in his new stadium) and it seems like the game is an afterthought…but there’s Virginia, watching every play.
Now to wait for some azzhat to say “duuuur she’s just too old to move duuuuuuurrrr”
I’m telling you, if Virginia had known anything about the business world, she’d be trying a lot harder to make papa proud than people give her credit for.
I agree with you.
I wrote earlier that I think the McCaskey’s are dedicated to winning, they’re just not very good at it. Virginia McCaskey is her father’s daughter and I can’t imagine that she is ever satisfied with the Bears just getting by financially.
Points Well Taken
Virto and BearFan, when you put some of the frustration aside, I’d sure like to think “Ol Ginny” does or did have some of dads what for…thanks for shedding some light..sounds like I missed something somewhere
"most football players are temperamental, thats 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental" Doug Plank
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