Week 8 Preview: Bears (3-3) vs. Browns (1-6)
by Dane Noble on Oct 30, 2009 2:30 PM CDT
in Game Preview
52 comments
After two tough losses on the road, the Chicago Bears will return to Soldier Field this weekend in hopes of getting a much needed win against the hapless Cleveland Browns. On paper, the Bears will surely be the favorite, but after two straight weeks of not being ready to play football, I'd hesitate to call this game a gimme.
Week 7 Recap:
The Browns got flat out dominated by the Green Bay Packers, losing in Cleveland by a score of 31-3. Aaron Rodgers and Ryan Grant had their way with the Browns defense, while the Packers defense had no trouble containing the Cleveland passing or rushing attack.
The Bears played their second road game in as many weeks when they traveled to Cincinnati, and left with their tails tucked between their legs after being pummeled 45-10. The offense wasn't clicking, and the defense allowed Carson Palmer and Company to roll up and down the field without consequence.
Quick Numbers:
- 15.1, 51.0, 36.4: Derek Anderson's last 3 passer ratings.
- 32: Tackles by Nick Roach (3rd best on team).
- 17.6: Average yards per reception for WR Mohamed Massoquoi.
- 91.9: Average Passer Rating against Bears defense this year.
- 5: Passes deflected by SS Al Afalava.
- 115: Number of combined tackles from Browns LBs D'Qwell Jackson and Eric Barton
When the Browns Have the Ball:
Even though the Browns rank 31st in the NFL in total offense, you have to think that they are expecting to move the ball against the recently deflated Bears defense. After starting the season with a good pass rush, the Bears have registered zero sacks over the last two weeks, so Derek Anderson will surely be looking to hookup with rookie WR Mohamed Massoquoi this week. Running backs Jamal Lewis and Jerome Harrison have been largely ineffective this season, with the only rushing TD scored by the Browns coming from Derek Anderson on a QB sneak from the 1 yard line.
Key Matchup: Oh, why not. Adewale Ogunleye vs John St. Clair
St. Clair gave up 10 sacks for the Bears last year, and Ogunleye has to be salivating at the thought of going against the former Bears offensive lineman. Said Ogunleye this week: "I'm just going to say that he tries hard."
X-factor for the Browns: WR Mohamed Massoquoi
The speedy rookie hopes to continue the trend of WRs having huge paydays against the Bears. Leading WRs against the Bears this year are averaging over 100 yards per game, and in just the last two games the Bears have given up 7 TD passes.
When the Bears Have the Ball:
You've gotta pound the rock baby! While the Browns manage to rank 24th in passing defense, their rushing defense is, in the words of Sir Charles Barkley, just turrable. Cleveland gives up over 170 yards rushing per game, allowing almost 5 yards per carry. Even though Adrian Peterson should be back for the Bears this week, expect a heavy dose of Matt Forte.
Key Matchup: Bears OL vs Browns front 7
We expect to see Josh Beekman replacing Frank Omiyale at LG this week, and there is no reason to expect the Bears not to try and appear like a formidable OL this week. If the Bears can't handle the Browns front 7, there will be mutiny in Halas Hall next week.
X-factor for the Bears: Ron Turner
Forget adding plays to the playbook, or getting fancy with the playcalling. Ron Turner will be looking to make a statement this week, and rightly so. The Bears haven't been able to do anything on the ground this year, and Turner should be shooting for the stars against the Browns.
Notes From the NFC North:
In possibly the most anticipated game of the year in the NFC, if not all of the NFL, Brett Favre will return to Lambeau Field for the first time since 2007. The Packers lost in a shoot-out the first time they faced Minnesota this year, and hope to play spoilers to the high-flying Vikings this week
In possibly the most unanticipated game of the year in the NFC, the Lions will play host to the winless Rams Sunday. The Lions hope to see the return of their two offensive stars in QB Matt Stafford and WR Calvin Johnson, who have both been battling injury.
0 recs |
52 comments
| Add comment
|
Email
Print
Comments
But we have to pass every down
We have Jay Cutler, we need to line-up in a Spread 5 WR set every down and chuck the ball all day. You can’t get “Off the bus running” with Jay Cutler. If Ron Turner and Lovie don’t have Jay throwing 50 times a game we will never win!!!!!!
Where’s Curtis Enis to lead our running attack :P
No really good break down of what we need to do and I can OGun looking forward going after St. Clair, if for no other reason just so he can talk trash to a former team-mate.
All I do know is, if Lovie doesn’t win this one, you can expect the firelovie.com website to have a ton of hits and even more MHR people coming to tell us who we got done by the “THE TRADE”.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Oct 30, 2009 2:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 30, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steelers beat the last week.
Don’t you guys watch the games?
Although the Refs did help the Steelers win, so it is a stolen victory.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
by JoeCB1991 on Oct 30, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Stealers beat the Vikings*
Damn typos….
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
by JoeCB1991 on Oct 30, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
last i checked
it was still one in the loss column for the Vikings
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 30, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry folks.
Thanks for the head’s up… fixerized it.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
by Dane Noble on Oct 30, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steelers beat the vikings..
Also, I want to know how many people are going to that rams/lions game..half priced tickets and probably blacked out? lol
by Pretender85 on Oct 30, 2009 3:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel bad for the Rams...
I liked them when Warner was the Quarterback, and I have been a fan of that guy since the first time I saw him in 1999.
But the Rams suck so much now that the Lions are the favorites to win that game. How bad must a team be if the Lions are expected to beat them?
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
by JoeCB1991 on Oct 31, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's on to something
The motor of a 4-3 defense, that defense, is the three-technique player in the middle … without Tommie Harris, no one is going anywhere. And I don’t think he’s up to challenge. I don’t think he relishes the opportunity to be one of the greats.
Warren Sapp
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Oct 30, 2009 3:52 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
How far the mighty have fallen...
Tommie Harris was supposed to be our Warren Sapp… Now, Harris is getting called out by the future HOF’r.
by rdent4hof on Oct 31, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
IM MAKING THE PREDICTION NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hester WILL FINALLY take one back to the house on a punt after 22 games without one. Why this week you ask??
Well for 1, he going up against Cribbs who is nipping at his coattails to break to the record 1st, he now has 8 to Hesters 11on all time returns. Number 2, It is the 23rd game coming up without a punt return and you know how the number 23 has worked out in the city of Chicago. And Number 3, he will dedicate the return for a TD to his upcoming newborn who is expected at any moment before the weekends out as he has been posting on his twitter account. And finally Number 4, though he didnt get any chances against Cincy on account that they werent punting, they were too busy scoring, but the two games prior he had 4 consecutive punt returns for over 20 yards and one he got caught by the shoelaces or he was housing it against Atlanta, that tells me hes ready.
All 4 of those variables tell me that this will FINALLY be the week. BOOK IT!!!!!!!!!
Make a note of it cause after Sunday I will make a post that will read I CALLED IT!
Phil: " Whose baby is that?
Alan: "Check his collar or something." - The Hangover
by ANYTIME09 on Oct 30, 2009 4:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can dig it.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
by Dane Noble on Oct 30, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so
Speaking of Cribbs, he would have been my choice for X Factor
by TrialsBass on Oct 30, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great minds think alike...
he almost was. But I have a feeling our ST unit got a nice talking-to this week and will come ready to hunker down pretty hard.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
by Dane Noble on Oct 30, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably
But I bet they got one after the Falcons game, and that didn’t do much. Is it me or has the coverage been looking a bit sloppy lately?
by TrialsBass on Oct 30, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sure has.
And Cribbs has as good of a chance to score for Cleveland than anyone else, so you can bet that good ol’ Dave Toub has been busting some chops this week to get ready for him.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
by Dane Noble on Oct 30, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The browns defense is not great, but...
they can be pesky and they play hard. If the offensive stupidity of Turner attempting to outsmart himself can be corrected, the Bears could maybe get a rhythm going. The Bears will need to sustain long drives that chew up clock; what is classic Bears slow-ball at 3-4 yards per play. Don’t care if they are runs or passes, but 3rd down efficiency will be key in this game. Not worried about Cribbs per se, but ST need to maintain their effectiveness. On defense, if Harris doesn’t play lights out, this will be a long game of little scoring. The Browns offense is not great at running, but a few Vasheresque coverage lapses and the Bears will be scrambling to escape with a victory. In the end, the Bears probably win this one going away, or at least should, perhaps 24-13. I think this team is destined for 8-8 this season, but that could slip to 7-9. Just as last week wasn’t the end of the season, this game is a validation of the coaches ability to motivate the players. If the team plays OK and wins, it’s not enough to start saying they are going to the playoffs or they are on the right path. Only a truly dominant performance will demonstrate this team is anything other than mediocre. The Browns whole franchise is simply awful and the Bears need to show how much unlike the Browns they are. So, Lovie and co., prove me wrong; make me believe that you can guide this team to something better than 9-7 missing the playoffs again!
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
by LostInSTL on Oct 30, 2009 7:01 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
If we lose this game
Can we start getting realistic calls for Lovie’s dismissal?
by dkguy55 on Oct 30, 2009 7:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A truly awful game
This game will prove a big fat NOTHING. Cleveland is horrible and is already showing signs of quitting on the season. So what if the Bears beat Cleveland by 20 points? What does that prove?
Bears are a mess.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
by BLou on Oct 30, 2009 7:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't always pay attention to the score...
what I am looking for is individual performances and overall team effort. If the Bears offense only scores 24 points, but obviously dominates the LOS and the running game is respectable then the coaches/players are improving. If the defense can cover and get pressure on the QB and generally force the game inside for easy gang tackling, then they are playing to the strength of the Tampa-2. You are right, the game probably proves nothing when it’s against the Browns, but a win would be nice to start with. To me, I would like to see some reason to believe the Bears coaches/players (hell the whole team) just get better each week. The incremental improvement means that the season could be salvaged, but the inconsistent and disorganized play makes a clear statement that the team is headed in the wrong direction.
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
by LostInSTL on Oct 30, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I subscribe to the theory that what primarily ails the Bears is lack of talent on both sides of the ball
That is the crisis point for this team.
You look at the offensive line and it is just awful. Orlando Pace retired in St. Louis, but somebody forgot to tell Jerry Angelo. Frank Omiyale is awful. Olin Kreutz has fallen off the face of a cliff. Chris Williams continues to struggle and look like yet another 1st round bust.
Running back is a mess. What is wrong with Forte? And there is zero depth behind him.
Greg Olson is the most ridiculously overrated overhyped pile of something. He has done NOTHING to remotely equate to the attention he gets.
The defensive line is a total mess. The best d-line man is a 30 year old plugger type in Alex Brown. Harris is finished. Ogunleye is insanely overrated and gone at the end of the season. Adams and Idonije are strictly serviceable. Harrison has done a big fat nothing.
The secondary is God-awful once you get past the rapidly falling apart Peanut Tillman and the intriguing Al Alfalfa.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
by BLou on Oct 30, 2009 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I generally agree with you...
maybe i am not as harshly negative, but i see your points. But I am hoping to see some of the players you mention either grow into their potential and have success or fail miserably so they can be cut, traded, or demoted.
The problem is one of practicality. The Bears simply cannot throw out the whole team and start over. Thus, I want to see the coaches actually earn their money and get the best out these players, mediocre as they may be. If it takes scrapping the Cover-Who next season and/or more likely adding some wrinkles, then do it. If it takes eating maybe one bad contract, say Urlacher or Harris, then do it. But i would just like to see some measure of improvement in the play of this team and the strategy of the coaches.
To improve this team will take some talent upgrade no doubt, but with few draft picks, and tightwad ownership, the chances are slim. My thought is 2 o-linemen, one FA and one drafted. One FA short yardage back. One giant, fast, angry 325lb. anchor for the defense to replace Harris(biggest need), FA or draft. One cover corner to pair with Tillman, gotta be the “big” FA signing this offseason. Draft a real FS. G Adams to be that pass rushing nightmare. A Brown to take over Wale’s spot. That, paired with an entirely new offensive coaching staff would put the Bears on track to be a consistent playoff team for about 2-3 years. I think these moves are realistic, but they would require bold leadership from Phillips and JA.
When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!!!
by LostInSTL on Oct 30, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
nice
reading this view makes you wonder how did da team luck into winning 3 games? bears have issues but you are one enormously negative nancy.
by reefermadness3 on Oct 30, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this what you mean by negative Nancy?...
When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!!!
by LostInSTL on Oct 30, 2009 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well now that you mention it
i was going to say no but would like to change that answer to yes based on the potential hotness of that nancy. if there is a mr. winky hiding there i would rather not know about it.
your ideas aren’t bad about fixering up the team either. although, in the alternate world where i get to be bears gm, i would spend the next offseason focusing almost solely on the o and d lines. there are enough (gulp) ok players outside of these two groups where they can continue to do ok w/out draft or FA additions. offense is going to continue to spin wheels until the o line gets out of its own way
although, a quality FS would be nice to see. shame the bears passed up on darren sharper, he’s having quite a good year so far.
by reefermadness3 on Oct 30, 2009 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree about the lines...
I remember watching the Aikman era Cowboys line and just noting how dominant they were. Emmett Smith was a durable, above-average RB, but his success was due to that O-line. It broke my heart to see him get the career yardage title, but thankfully he’s a decent guy. Look at how much success Urlacher had when he had Mt. Washington and Traylor in front of him. Many an average “skill” player look much better working behind a solid line.
When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!!!
by LostInSTL on Oct 30, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right
And Bill Walsh’s 49ers dominated football too. I believe that in all that time, one guy (Harris Barton) was their only #1 draft pick.
The MVP of that line was their coach, Bobb McKittrick, one of the best O-Line coaches in NFL history.
And the Cowboys were also led by one of the great HC’s in NFL history, Jimmy Johnson.
Great talent with lesser coaching suffers.
Average talent with great coaching rises higher.
It’s all in the coaching.
The Denver Broncos have an excellent O-Line. They went 8-8 last season. Already they are 6-0.
It’s the coaching.
by GeoMak on Oct 30, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly, the Cowboys O-line coach during their first Super Bowl run,
of the Jimmy Johnson era, was Tony Wise, who came to the Bears with Wanny. During his time here, Ron Turner’s offense (on his first time with the Bears) set many of the team passing records with Erik Kramer. I brought this up several weeks ago when I saw the Bears vs. Steelers from that time on NFL Network in one of their all-time great games. That offense looked tremendous with the same OC we have now and a lesser talent at QB and Rashaan Salaam at RB. Harry Heistand’s head will roll either during this season, if they get worse in the running game and pass protection, or definitely after the season if they remain status quo.
by BearFan611 on Oct 30, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Yes the Cowboys had great players cause JJ drafted them, but they had excellent coaches, starting at the top.
by GeoMak on Oct 30, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think
Jimmy J is one of the great HC in NFL history?
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
by Dane Noble on Oct 31, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He took a dying franchise
and with his drafting ability and coaching ability built one of the great teams of all times.
If his owner wasn’t an idiot, JJ might have won four consecutive SB’s in Dallas, instead of just two.
by GeoMak on Oct 31, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just searched for a "negative Nancy" and this came up...
the name just made me laugh, so I had to find a good image to share!
When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!!!
by LostInSTL on Oct 30, 2009 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greg Olsen is being schemed differently.
That as much as anything explains his situation: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-30-bears-greg-olsen-oct30,0,322228.story?track=rss
It’s an old cliche: The talent level is spread pretty evenly across the NFL (with the exception of QB, where the Bears have one of the better ones).
The Arizona Cards lost two of their first three games at home to SF & Indy and their O-Line was ripped to shreds by the locals. This was the same line that helped put them in last years SB.
Last week, they went into NY and beat the Giants, one of the better rushing teams in the NFL. By all accounts their line played very well that night.
Go figure.
The GB Packers have given up 25 sacks . . . the Bears? 11.
And the Packers have played the Rams, Lions & Browns. Not exactly dominating defenses.
The Packers were being criticized everywhere after they had given up 20 sacks in their first four games. That’s right. After four games GB was averaging 5 sacks given up per game; the Bears two sacks. People said “How bad is this line in GB?”
Their record? 4-2. The Bears? 3-3.
It’s not the talent, per se. It’s the COACHING!
The sooner people understand this . . . the better off they’ll be.
by GeoMak on Oct 30, 2009 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The last line of the Greg Olsen article says it all...
the great ones find a way to beat the defenses set up to stop them. Succumbing to other teams schemes to keep you bottled up is a sure reason, in my opinion, to NOT consider Greg to be a great player.
Gale Sayers, Dick Butkus, and most of Walter Payton’s careers were with some of the worst teams in the Bears’ history, and the opposing teams were completly set up to stop them, yet, all 3 are in the HOF. That’s what makes you great.
by BearFan611 on Oct 30, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
coaching
even walter wanted coaching. the running back coach was interviewed a while back and said no 34 allways pestered him to be coached, even though he didnt need it. i have to agree with the comments that have been posted. we are badly coached, and it has been highlited by the state of play this season. properly coached we could be in a much better position to make the play-offs. i feel really ley down by the staff behind the team. the only coach that seems to be making a difference, and i am sorry to have to say this is marinneli
by stepeo on Oct 31, 2009 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are "these people" that
you always say need to understand this?
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
by Dane Noble on Oct 31, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The people that make excuses for Lovie and his staff
In 2006 the Bears went to the SB. The Falcons were 7-9.
Since then both teams are 19-19.
Of course, in that time, the Falcons had their starting QB go to jail and their HC quit during the season.
That doesn’t make the Bears look very good by comparison.
by GeoMak on Oct 31, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the 19-19 Falcons went to the playoffs
The 19-19 Bears didn’t.
by GeoMak on Oct 31, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who dares dissent, of course.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Nov 1, 2009 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dissent away
it would be a nice change of pace, however, if the ‘dissent’ was followed by something intelligent to back it up.
by GeoMak on Nov 1, 2009 4:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, yeah, we get it. You’re OLD enough to remember Stalin, and about as understanding of anyone who DISAGREES.
It’s getting boring, gramps.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Nov 1, 2009 5:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
you insult but can’t come up with anything intelligent with which to disagree.
Try this: Find a comment of mine (I’ve made hundred’s) and if you disagree, give an INTELLIGENT reason as to why you disagree.
by GeoMak on Nov 1, 2009 5:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you can write another essay in which you regurgitate the same things OVER and over AGAIN? That would be FOOLISH. I’ve read books by people who have PLAYED in the NFL and I taught HALAS everything he knew.
…
Gaah… I’m channeling the ’Mak. Time to get out.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Nov 1, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Niners O - Line was also one of the dirtiest in history
They were forever doing cut – back blocks on almost any D – Line player that was a threat to Montana; their notoriety on that score was one of the primary reasons why the NFL created the penalty you see so called so often these days. That line ruined more Defensive player’s knees than any other team that I can remember.
by Waylon on Oct 31, 2009 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know fantasy stats mean nothing
but the ESPN guys are forcasting 24 pts for Forte. Do they know something we don’t, or will the Browns run D really be that bad? I’m hoping for the later.
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
*This tagline is copyrighted by smudgers, inc. for the private use of the WCG audience. Any use of this tagline or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts without smudgers, inc. consent is prohibited.
by Ditkavsworld on Oct 31, 2009 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Vegas line is what has me baffled...
Bears (-13.5)
by rdent4hof on Nov 1, 2009 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
That’s one helluva line. Don’t know what to do with that. Seems like a trap.
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
*This tagline is copyrighted by smudgers, inc. for the private use of the WCG audience. Any use of this tagline or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts without smudgers, inc. consent is prohibited.
by Ditkavsworld on Nov 1, 2009 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing...
Going into the game, my thought was (-8) or (-9)…
by rdent4hof on Nov 1, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Join the community and dive in!
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
