The Bears Den - 11/16/09
by ChiFan13 on Nov 16, 2009 12:00 AM CST
in The Bears Den
30 comments
....where we're still laughing about the Broncos losing to the Redskins.
The offense is focused on eliminating errors. Thanks, Larry.
The Bears are beginning to prepare for the Eagles. Thanks, Larry.
The Vikings can clinch the North in two weeks.
Brad Biggs: Lovie needs to lose patience with the offense.
David Haugh: Jay Cutler needs to show restraint and be less cocky. Meatball Fever is running rampant.
Dan Pompei: Cutler is jittery, and it's easy to see why.
The Bears are facing a difficult home stretch.
The play of the 49ers game in slow-mo.
Comcast SportsNet Chicago
John Mullin: Does Cutler compare with Grossman? And to think, I was hoping to interview him at some point.
Daily Herald
How are Cutler's woes Turner's fault? So many answers.....
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wow.. I was so excited that week before the Packers game..
I still can’t believe how bad this team has played. Oh well. I mean this team had it’s chances.
Does anyone else
get annoyed by what a tool Larry mayer is?
Why be annoyed?
He is an extension of the PR arm of the Bears organization. Its his job to right the crap he does. Wouldn’t you write puff pieces about the points that the PR execs told you, if the Bears handed you a nice paycheck, access to the locker room, and press box tickets to every Bears game?
I actually like Larry Mayer
I mean, he has been covering the bears since what? 1979? I mean if anyone is a true bears fan it’s him. If you don’t like his articles then don’t read them. I must admit though, i do read Chalk Talk more than his articles for one because most of them i admit are fluff pieces. Amidst all the doom and gloom lately though it sometimes helps to read a fluff piece once in a while i think.
by Chitownproduct on Nov 16, 2009 6:03 AM CST up reply actions
He is like the opposite of Rick Morrissey though
while rick is all bad douche… Larry is all good douche… it’s hard to find a happy medium
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Nov 16, 2009 6:15 AM CST up reply actions
lol
Larry IS a “good douche.”
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
That's the only reason I like him..
he is the polar opposite of guys like morissey
I still think Mariotti is the biggest douche of all
Probably because he is on Around the horn so much and all of America can see our caliber of Sports Writers lol.
by Chitownproduct on Nov 16, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
I took Haugh's article differently
I felt it was as much an indictment on Lovie and the coaching staff not doing their job and, once again, letting their more popular players off without any accountability. Cutler’s ego is an issue when it comes to forcing the ball, but you also knew that was what you were buying, when you made the trade. If we had a competent coaching staff, they would be letting him know the rate he’s making these mistakes is unacceptable and there’s a consequence if it continues. It will never happen with this group.
On the other side of the coin, it’s not only troubling that he’s throwing picks in the redzone, but how bad those decisions are. If they were interceptions that were happening because it was a tight window and he was losing the “game of inches” it would be one thing, but most of these have been situations where he had no business even attempting the throw. Also, if you look at Jay’s body of work for the entire season, how many completions has he had where the ball has been right on the money? Not enough for a QB with his talent and reputation. I’m not just talking about redzone, I mean anywhere on the field. I know the line has been very bad and he hasn’t had a lot of time, but even when he sets his feet, a lot of the catches are made because the receivers have made some very good plays. He’s also been off on a lot of the downfield attempts which are supposed to be his strong point. I’m sure some of it is being gunshy from being hit, but too much of it is happening when there’s no reason for it, which shouldn’t be the case for a “franchise QB”.
I’m not writing him off, just saying that we can’t be too blinded by the pre-season hype surrounding Cutler and maybe some of the questions that we wrote off as sour grapes are more legitimate than we want them to be.
I beg to differ
Jay is on the money more often than not. What you fail to realize is that jay leads receivers to daylight but when you have dumb ass converted cbs for receivers they stop on routes and dont know how to break tackles.
Hitting a receiver between the numbers are only good on some routes sometimes its better to hit the back shoulder, knee level catches, and their hip pocket. Its my opinion that jay cutler often relies on the receiver to uncover and work without the ball like basketball. Jump ball guys like brandon marshall and T.O.
There’s more than just one window to throw too per route and jay often relies on the second window. Because we have inferior coaching staff i dont believe our wide receivers are aware of the second and rarely third window. Jays pics look riddiculous to the naked eye but i bet coaches like shannahan, Fassel, Marriucchi, Gruden are biting at the bit to teach this young stud patience and guide him to greatness. Someting pep hamilton can not do
In closing i would like to say i have not seen one chicago receiver make a play on a bad cutler ball and dumbass ron turner never call down the field plays. But when he do the receivers arent open enough for jay to fit it in.
Yes and no
The receivers have definately been the cause of a few of Jay’s interceptions this year. But didn’t he lead the league last year in Denver, with 17 picks? Other than that, he had a phenomenal year, with 25 TDs and over 4500 yards.
But this year, he’s already got 17 and we’ve got a long ways to go. He’s on track to throw 30 interceptions this year, and I can’t blame that on the receivers. Cutler has a huge upside, but he’s got to learn to either throw the ball away or take the sack – when there’s no where to go with the football. He’s got to try to settle down a little bit (and I know that’s hard to do when your protection sucks). But that’s what he has to try to do.
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
I figure he'll be in the neighborhood
4,300 yds
20-25 TDS
23-25 INTs
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Nov 16, 2009 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry
but if Cutler threw the ball and took the sack everybody would be complaining that he needs to take chances downfield!!!! If he did that, he would be sacked more times than Rodgers and his completion percentage would be about 15%!! I’ll take the pics because he throws TDs as well. I don’t care how many pics he throws as long as he has more TDs.
Through 9 games, Cutler has more INTs than TDs, right now
17 Pics
14 TDs
And his rating is down to 76.
Now, Aaron Rodgers is also playing behind a crap O-line and he leads the league in sacks. But here’s Rodgers’ line:
5 Pics
17 TDs
QB Rating: 101
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Jay Cutler fan, but I think Jays’ coaches need to start looking for some answers, here – and figure out how to help our QB take better care of the ball.
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
But Rodgers has taken many more sacks!
If Jay takes the sacks, it may lead to fumbles, and it will lead to longer distances needed for first downs thus putting more pressure on Cutler to throw the ball, and giving the opposing D’s more of a chance to key on the pass play’s on 3rd and forever…
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Nov 16, 2009 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
If you haven't seen a receiver make a play on a a bad pass then you haven't been watching
I’m not talking about the receivers and their route running, I’m strictly talking about the accuracy of his passes even when he has time. It has not been what we would expect from someone with his reputation.
When Grossman and Orton threw those back shoulder, knee level catches, and their hip pocket, we complained that they couldn’t throw accurately but with Cutler they’re great decisions?
The main reason that you have a quarterbacks coach
Is that he is supposed to closely observe the mechanics and tendencies of the quarterback and help him with things that the quarterback himself might not able to see or even be aware of. Like his throwing technique, decisions in certain situations and plays, etc. The goal is to help the quarterback improve what he’s doing so that he doesn’t make the same mistakes over and over again.
I wonder if anyone is helping Jay if he is indeed struggling with his mechanics or decision making?
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
what is… no
otherwise he wouldn’t be the number 1 INT thrower
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Nov 16, 2009 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
You're exactly right, which is why I've never been comfortable with Pep Hamilton
I don’t see him being a coach that a guy like Cutler will respect and listen to. We’ve talked about it for a few days, that someone needs to sit Jay down and give him some tough love about improving his areas of weakness and I just don’t see that coming from this staff.
Like you, I’m a fan of Cutler and I don’t want to see his talent wasted by letting him continue with his bad habits and tendancies. There are a ton of reasons we’re in the situation we’re in and I think Jay is one of the few reasons that has the potential to be fixed.
….where we’re still laughing about the Broncos losing to the Redskins.
Umm…the Bears couldn’t the Redskins.
by boondock_saint812 on Nov 16, 2009 9:21 AM CST reply actions
why can't that still amusing to some though
it’d be like laughing that the Colts beat the Pats… so what
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Nov 16, 2009 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Isn't Cutler's passer rating
above 100 when he throws out of the pocket?
Tell me if I’m wrong, but I can’t seem to remember a single pass on Thursday night that came while Jay was rolling out—either by design or improvised.
Why not?
It’s not like the line has been doing an excellent job creating a traditional pocket for him….
I don't think he sucks, but...
He needs to break away from fun 1st run 2nd and pass on 3rd and long pattern that he loves to use especially in the 1st half of games…it seams as the games progress he moves away from being so predictable, but early in the game you can almost predict the playcalls more accurately than Miss Cleo.
Why not come out and throw a bomb on the 1st play of the game…Just because sexy rexy couldn’t hit the open reciever doesn’t mean Jay can’t.
Also with our line being so inept, why not run Forte off Tackle so he actually gets a chance to get positive yardage.
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Nov 16, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Saying he sucks might be a little strong but, for this season, at least,
he hasn’t come up with a scheme to speak to the strengths of his QB. There has been a lack of creativity inside the 5 yard line as well, which has certainly lent to some of the issues that Jay has had in the redzone.
My (layman's) advice for Turner...
I’m just a guy sitting on his couch, drinking beer and watching football, but here’s what I see that Turner needs to do to get this offense mvoing again.
The o-line is turrble (barkley) , which means the game plan has to adjust accordingly. Not playing to the strengths of the personnel and predictability are two of Turner’s biggest issues.
I was happy to finally see Forte used wisely in the screen game. I think we need A LOT more of that. Get Forte the ball in space. We lack the ability to run and execute a power run game plan, so to compensate for the lack fo power running, we should CONTINUE to use Matt Forte as a receiver, frequently. Don’t be afraid to put him out wide, either. Maybe confuse the oppsoing defense by sticking Wolfe in the backfield at the same time.
(Foret and Wolfe should not always be an either/or proposition).
And for all the craptastic suckitude of Thursday night, our o-line did a very nice job in getting out to block for Forte on short dumps and screens.
It’s not as good as a legit power running game, but it’s the next best thing.
And add into a Cutler scramble once every couple series, and it helps keep defenses honest.
That’s ONE thing Turner can do to improve/make the most of what we have.
Next, as I alluded to—one of Cutler’s strengths is his mobility, and his ability to throw/and or make a play while on the run. Couple that with our urine-poor o-line play, and the answer’s OBVIOUS:
Roll Cutler out more, move the pocket, bootlegs, options, etc. (AGAIN—ISN’T THIS MAN ABOVE 100 IN PASSER RATING WHENEVER HE THROWS ON THE MOVE?!?!?!)
Also, aside from the botched Mannelly fake thing (due to the misperception of too many men on the field or whatever IT WAS) in week one at GB, have the Bears pulled single fake all year?
nOPE. Not on offense, or special teams, that I can recall.
The strength of our offense lies in its speed: Cutler, Knox, Hester, Wolfe….and then Manning and Maynard & Gould & Mannelly and co. are ALL athletic enough—so why not a fake now and then? Are we saving them all for the remaining divisional games?
With the lack of strength and size on the o-line, and the speed and elusiveness of some of our backs and WRs, why not more misdirection plays, slants, spreads, and end-around now and then?
(Screw the Wildcat—it only works if you have a solid power run game to begin with, and every D has practiced/prepared for it by now anyway).
Yep, Turner’s been woefully predictable.
Down in the road zone, what happened to all our tried and true plays that worked with Orton? Leaking/sneaking the fullback out as a receiver? Using Dez Clark as the receiver?
It seems all we’ve seen is Forte getting stuffed in the middle, or crossing routes at the back of the end zone…
How about a Cutler bootleg/option to Forte? Or a corner fade to Kellen Davis?
(I wouldn’t mind seeing Davis experimented with as a lead blocker, either…although, now that I think about it, I’ve also just about had my fill of Angelovie’s cross-positional “experiments”, too)
Anyone else notice how when the Bears attack the deep middle of the field with the TEs it’s almost ALWAYS a completion?
Use the TEs more to attack the middle of the field. Keep Dez in to block, split Olsen out wide…
And for God’s sake never ever run Wolfe up the middle again, unless it’s an unexpected draw and the defense is already spread out well.
So that’s my 3 cents on what Turner might be able to do to get the O rolling. Hell, it’s time for some dramatic change, at least when it comes to red zone play-calling.
I think the key words in your post were (as far as Turner's weaknesses):
Not playing to the strengths of the personnel and predictability
In other words if you know the left side of the line is your weak-link, don’t try to run behind Omiyale 2 plays in a row when you’re on the 1 yard line (against Atlanta). Or, if you know the pocket has a tendency to collapse, try rolling out and moving the protection around a little bit – versus dropping back and getting suffocated. Don’t keep putting your players in situations where there’s a high probability of failure.
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
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