In the Trenches: Ron May Go, But Then What?
by Dane Noble on Nov 16, 2009 10:58 AM CST
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The Chicago Bears offensive struggles this season directly hinge on the poor offensive line play. We know that Ron Turner is likely to be fired, even if it is simply for a "scape goat" reason. So, let's assume that the Bears will have a new offensive coordinator next season.
In order for the new OC to have any bit of success, it will all start in the trenches. We know that our 2010 draft will not likely find a starter for our OL, considering that we don't have a high enough draft pick to land one of the top-notch linemen. After that, it's a crap-shoot whether we will be able to find any one.
Looking at free agency, we will need to find replacements for at least two, if not three or more linemen next year, if we plan on being successful. 2009 was not a good year for FA linemen acquisitions... Angelo did well getting the QB position figured out, but failed miserably in protecting the QB.
So, if we do get a new OC, how are we going to get him the tools to work with on the OL? We will have to go after free agents who are not someone else's cast-offs. We cannot continue to try and pull from the garbage pile.
So, would firing Ron Turner even make any sense? Sure, many of us think that Turner has worn out his welcome, and that it is time to move in a different direction offensively.
But we now need to be "fixated" on getting the guys in the trenches figured out. If not, we'll be in the same boat next season as we are now.
Championship teams know that it all starts in the trenches. And our trench is a problem... a big one that will likely take more than one year to get fixed. In the meantime, I guess we'll blame it on Turner.
And I'll throw this article out there again... it is linked in the Den, but is a really good read on our OC situation.
Olin Kreutz-
2009: $2.33 million
2010: $2.33 million
2011: Free Agent
Roberto Garza-
2009: $745,000
2010: $1.31 million
2011: $1.425 million
2012: Free Agent
Josh Beekman-
2009: $460,000
2010: $550,000
2011: Free Agent
Frank Omiyale-
2009: $620,000 + $3.88 million in bonuses
2010: $1.25 million
2011: $1.6 million
2012: $1.6 million
2013: Free Agent
Chris Williams-
2009: $385,000
2010: $740,000,
2011: $1,095,250
2012: $1 million + $284,750 workout bonus
2013: Free Agent.
Orlando Pace-
2009: $1.35 million + $3.4 million roster bonus
2010: $3.75 million
2011: $4.75 million
2012: Free Agent
Kevin Shaffer-
2009: $750,000 + $1.2 million roster bonus
2010: $1 million
2011: $1.75 million
2012: Free Agent
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Yes, fire turner anyways. it’s another box to check on the long list of “things to fix”
i really fear that the Bears will end up trading away another high draft pick, to get a lineman. i’d prefer they just bite the bullet this year, and get one the year after.
i’ve looked at the FA, and the pickings are slim, but doable.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Nov 16, 2009 11:03 AM CST reply actions
Agreed re Firing Turner
If only cause he can’t seem to coach Cutler how to play smart ball.
Also, I like your view concerning FA – we have to make do until the draft pick situation improves.
Over reaction is understandable at this point, but not helpful.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
by Maelvampyre on Nov 16, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
OK, what decent OC
is going to come here for one year knowing lovie’s going to get fired at the end of the year anyway?
the answer: nobody.
Billick?
He could come in looking at the possibility if lovie is fired he’d have a decent shot at the HC
hmmm...
intriguing. i forgot about billick. he’s done good things with the ravens, who are very similar to the bears (smash mouth D, strong running game), and he’s an offensive mind.
think lovie would take a demotion to DC? As it stands, I don’t even think he’s calling the plays all the time now. I’m pretty sure I saw babich calling plays more than a few times on the sidelines during the san fran game.
Maybe being HC and calling the defensive plays was too much for lovie. That may be why we say babich calling a few plays the other day.
If he can't handle the job
Then he needs to be demoted to the unemployment line – he wrote the check now he can’t cash it? As for Babich, he needed to be gone last year and dumping him this year would not be too soon to take care of that little piece of unfinished business.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
by Maelvampyre on Nov 16, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
You'd be hard-pressed to find
anyone who doesn’t think that Babich has done a good job this year.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
Martz perhaps?
He and Lovie worked at St Louis together
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
Here is the key to the O-Line for 2010!!!
You have to find out what you have this year.
Pace isn’t the answer at LT. But is Williams? Get him to LT as soon as possible. He was drafted to be the future at LT, but is he capable? Then at RT you give Omiyale a chance. As a guard he wasn’t technically sound, but at RT he may be a good fit.
If both of these players seem able to play their positions then you only are looking at LG. Beekman is better than last year, but is that good enough? Let him play out the string this year to decide. RG will be Garza next year and C will be Kruetz until he retires. He isn’t a pro bowler any more, but he’s better than the alternative.
Until you know for sure what you have in house, there is no point in looking at free agents.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 16, 2009 11:55 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I concur. Enough of the now (we know we suck now), let's see what we have for the foreseeable future.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
based on the contracts
the foreseeable future looks bad and mildly expensive. Angelo sunk too much money into some of these no-talent assclowns to really improve the line this year or over the next 2. not to mention, we don’t have any high-round picks to get someone who could make a difference in the next few years.
i agree with assessing talent … but we’re only as good as the people assessing that talent. if Angelo thought Pace, Omiyale, and Shaffer were good additions, well i beg to differ. Williams is unproven, Garza is overrated, Kruetz is about finished and Beekman is too small. yet, Angelo and Lovie are exactly the guys who pieced this puzzle together and now we have to trust them that they’ll blow it up and improve it? — yeah, right.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
LMAO!
i agree with assessing talent … but we’re only as good as the people assessing that talent. if Angelo thought Pace, Omiyale, and Shaffer were good additions, well i beg to differ.
That’s funny, especially coming from someone who said this in March…
PASS I don’t care anymore and it’s not going to happen. Cutler doesn’t fit here anyway and I’d be much happier if JA tried to get Pace on the cheap and keep building through the draft.
and this in April…
I think it’s a decent move because Pace was at one point an elite tackle, but I agree that this is a band-aid move.
So you agreed that it was a good move back then, but now you “beg to differ,” funny how that works out for you.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 16, 2009 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
and we've assessed you don't do much for a living
and i said it was a band-aid move – which of course it is and it sucked. so thank you smudgers for going through my comments and re-posting them. rah-tard.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
Hilarious...
you get called out for being ironic and you resort to name calling and insults, that’s classic.
And since you called out Angelo for signing Pace and the others, I wanted to see where you originally stood on the Pace signing. To see if you had this same stance all along. Or to see if you were just the stereotypical armchair GM who clamors for a player that eventually gets signed, and when that player doesn’t work out, you make comments like the one you typed earlier.
And just for the record, all I had to do was type Pace under your profile to view all four of the comments where you’ve mentioned Pace. Extremely daunting task.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 16, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
No problem.
I find it pretty useful too, but I “don’t do much for a living” apparently.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 16, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
why can’t you get a “real” job and stop playing on the internet all day. Come on cartoon boy you’re better than this. :)
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
by Ditkavsworld on Nov 16, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions
Get a job,
where I can’t play on the internet. Check. I’m right on that.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 17, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Good, I'm glad we're on the same page.
Now I’m off to google something because I’m at work and I don’t feel like working.
Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!
by Ditkavsworld on Nov 17, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
glad to contribute
and make you laugh pal. here’s the thing, if i’m an armchair GM, what does that make you? last i checked, you weren’t running this team, unless of course, you are JA reading over comments and picking the one you like to least to criticize.
we’re pretty much all armchair GMs here and i think a fair amount of us change our minds. sure hindsight is 20/20 and right now, i think some of the moves JA made were not good for the future of this ballclub. at the time i was content with the team we had – nevermind that back in March and April this team hadn’t even stepped foot on the field.
so, now that i think that Pace was a bad move – you decide to play the role of assbag and go and pull up past comments that i made about the deal to show me that i was a fan of the deal 9 months ago. good for you smudgers – you’ve succeeded in that. people on this blog change their minds all the time – some even in less than 24 hours.
so no, i don’t stand by some of the moves he made, and nor would i have come back here and given everyone an i told you so. you can slam me and my opinions all you want, and go and dig up past posts to show that i changed my mind about a signing after the product on the field doesn’t produce. in the NFL they just trade or cut the guy – here, the fan gets blasted for changing his tune.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
To be honest, at the time I thought the move (getting Pace) was an upgrade.
Seemed like the veteran should have had something left in the tank and it wasn’t like he was replacing a probowler. I’m not sure how many people saw Pace being THIS bad coming.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I liked the move in the beginning as well.
and am also disappointed in how it turned out. My problem is with people acting like they know better than an NFL GM/Coach when they themselves were calling for that same player a few months ago.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 16, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
You definitely make me laugh.
It’s not about you “changing your tune.” It’s about you calling for Angelo to sign the guy and then criticizing him for doing so.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 16, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
wilts plan
Makes the most sense out of a bad situation.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
by Maelvampyre on Nov 16, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Which is why
It won’t happen.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
Agreed
That is what I mentioned earlier, letting some of these guys go back to their normal positions and allowing some second and third stringers some playing time.
See what develops or possibly raise some trade stock. Heck even if neither of these happen, maybe a message will be sent to these overpaid starters, this is not OK and we will bench/trade your @ss.
Agreed
We are not going to the playoffs unless seven miracles happen (even then we will need help from other teams). Nothing good can come from leaving the online as is…the status quo is not working…so lets fix it.
We need to make these moves to see how they perform in REAL game situations not preseason or minicamp. If they look good then we can use them in the transition, if not the door is that way -————→ []
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Nov 16, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
That's true
Williams and Omiyal are probably our best tackles, and they need to get playing time at those positions. But then Angelo would look like a fool for throwing all of that money at Pace.
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
I really thought...
…that the Pace injury on Thursday was going to be one of those face-saving things they do to bench a guy they don’t want to be seen benching. Apparently he’s expected to play on Sunday, though, so I guess I read it wrong.
—d
he also threw money at omiyale
and everyone assumed pace’s contract was really only for this season, anyway
by guy incognito on Nov 16, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
Fire the entire offensive staff
It’s the responsibility of the OC to develop what JA brought in, whether mediocre or not. Secondly, Turner has done a terrible job playing to Cutler’s strengths as a QB- no rollouts, bootlegs, etc. Pip has helped develop zero QBs since being in Chicago (I guess a paper-thin case can be made for Orton), and the O-line coach has regressed since doing fairly well in the beginning of his tenure.
How about offering Jim Harbaugh a job as OC? I mean he just gashed USC with inferior talent.
"Those guys were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked" - Homer defines the Bears '09 season in less than 12 words.
Isn't
Cutler’s QB rating above 100 when he throws from outside of the pocket?
Yet I can’t seem to recall a single boot/roll out (either by design or improvised) on Thursday night?
Am I just not mis-un-non-il-remembering?
Definitely not vs. the Niners
I think I saw it a couple of times early in the season, but that’s about it. Cutler excels when the field is cut in half.
"Those guys were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked" - Homer defines the Bears '09 season in less than 12 words.
you're delusional
bootlegs and roll outs would be smart play calls. a ron turner offense is, if nothing else, not smart.
by guy incognito on Nov 16, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Wow... I been catching hell from a couple people on here for saying this same thing......
bout time I heard it somewhere else!
GO BEARS!!!!
If turner was a bit more inventive..
and gunned the ball downfield and actually used our speed WR group to its potential..with a mix of olsen up the middle(who was for the most part single covered that entire 49ers game)..id respect him..but i think we need a new OC. Hopefully the CBA gets worked out, we might be able to put together some competent talent off the FA market of guys finishing their rookie contracts..or hope Tommie keeps playing like he did thursday and we can eke a 2nd rounder out of someone for him, put williams back at LT and draft a RT..hope kreutz/garza/beekman can hold the middle.
On the few occasions this season
that the OL has given Cutler decent protection, we’ve called some deep pass plays. Unfortunately, Cutler typically don’t even have time to set his feet on a 3-step drop… so it’s hard to even look downfield.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
Charlie Weis is going to need a job
just saying…
I was told that I ruined this house with my anger
Job as a OC, or as a LG?
I’d take him at either spot.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
We definately over-paid Pace
And Omiyale, too. Seems like the contracts should’ve been shorter, too. We should’ve signed them to 1-2 year deals & waited to see how they worked out, and then decided whether or not to offer them an extension.
I think there might’ve been another team that was interested in Pace, but was anyone else throwing multi-year/million dollar deals at our stud LG during the “Omilyale Sweepstakes?”
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
I don't argue Omiyale,
but I really thought the Pace signing was a decent move. Hindsight being what it is and all…
I’ve never understood the Frank signing either. At least the financial side of it never made a whole lot of sense. How does someone pay a career backup $14 million? And I don’t know about dollar figures, but it was said that ten teams were interested in Omiyale, for what that’s worth.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Nov 16, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
i wonder
how many of them would have put him at guard..
by GtM on Nov 16, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i wonder
how many of them would have put him at guard..
I admit, i laughed out loud to that one, some of my co-workers were looking at me crazy.
gonna wreck that one because the answer to that question is 0 teams but the Bears for some reason make a career out of it.
by Chitownproduct on Nov 17, 2009 4:23 AM CST up reply actions
Classic Bears
under the Angelovie regime…
I call it “cross-positional experimentation”. They’re addicted to it.
I was wrong, wrong, wrong
I thought Pace was a good signing. I thought the concept of signing a guy like Omiyale was generally a good one (I didn’t know a thing about him as a player), And with Shaffer in the mix, I figured our depth on the OL was going to be better, too.
When they looked shaky against the Packers, I wrote it off as the unit still working out the little things that make a good line.
Wrong.
Not only have the new guys not played well, but the guys who were here last year haven’t done anything of note either. We can’t run left, we can’t run right, and we can’t run up the middle.
This Bears team is in trouble. It’s not well coached, it isn’t showing much heart, and it’s not as if we’ve got a bunch of young talent waiting in the wings.
On the bright side, as I’ve proven in the past, I could be wrong.
And the prevailing wind happens to be blowing from Vichy.
I think
this the exact same way about 90% of us felt…
We all liked the Pace “upgrade”, didn’t know much about Omi-Omy-you-suck, but were pleased inasmuch as a move was made (and—dumb us—we gave JA the benefit of the doubt), and we liked Shaffer for depth and as an upgrade to St. Eclair (who, coincidentally, I watched getting embarrassed last night)
Then, the line play at GB was exactly what you said: temporary, the line just taking time to “gel”
Yup, it summed it up well—we all felt/thought/believed the same way.
That’s what makes it all so frustrating…expectaions were built up so high, but the higher the clib, the harder the fall.
Omiyale At Right Tackle?
I already thought that the Bears worked Omiyale at Right Tackle & then quickly plugged him in at guard. This is what a lot of teams do if the player doesn’t have the quicks & finese to play Tackle. There’s less space to deal with at guard. You don’t have to be as quick & fluid. For other than one last stab at wishful thinking what’s this going to do for us?
Omiyale has been a tackle his whole career,
until this season. He played tackle in college and with Atlanta (drafted him in the 5th round in 2005), and with Carolina. He started 1 game at left tackle last season for them. He should be inserted at right tackle and Williams moved to left to see if we have anything for next year. It’s the guy’s natural position, it’s the Bears’ only hope I think to fix the line. Then they can go out and target a guard in FA and the draft and see what happens.
by Mike Mueller on Nov 17, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Omiyale At Right Tackle/Williams At Left
It may be worth a shot or, said another way, what have we got to lose? Why not do it now that Pace has been dinged & Beekman’s taken over at guard?
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