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The Bears Den - 11/17/09

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....where the Chicago MSM are really starting to make my ass weary.

ChicagoBears.com

The Bears are still confident despite their recent losses. They shouldn't be, Larry. 

ChicagoNow

Adewale Ogunleye blogeth! He breaks down the loss last Thursday.

Chicago Sun-Times

Offensive penalties are killing the Bears.

Cutler's nightmarish game isn't as bad as it looked - take a look at this article. 

Mark Potash: The Bears' problems are bigger than Cutler.

Brian Westbrook's status for Sunday's game is uncertain.

Star-divide

Apparently, the Sun-Times staff believes that because Jon Gruden signed a broadcasting contract, he won't be a coach soon.

Did Pace suffer a concussion? He suited up yesterday.

At least Lovie didn't say that the Bears get off the bus running.....

Chicago Tribune

Rex Grossman's dad rips the Bears' handling of Jay Cutler. Hey, Dan, here's my response to you: ,,I,,

Dan Pompei's mailbag. 

Comcast SportsNet Chicago

John Mullin: Momentum is an elusive intangible for the Bears. C- effort, John. 

Daily Herald

Bob LeGere: NFC parity means that the Bears are still in it.

Barry Rozner: Cutler's struggles aren't as scary as Forte's. 

Pace, Afalava, and Bowman all practiced on Monday.

ESPN Chicago

Westbrook's status for Sunday is uncertain. 

Josh Beekman is the starting LG, kids.

Kevin Payne sat out of yesterday's practice.

0 recs  |  Comment 36 comments |

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What about this one saying Lovie should bench Cutler...

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4657757

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.

No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.

by JoeCB1991 on Nov 17, 2009 12:09 AM CST reply actions  

that tribune article

about grossman sr. is right on the money. you can give him the finger but that doesn’t make his valid points go away.

by reefermadness3 on Nov 17, 2009 7:42 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed

However, the last person anyone wanted to hear that from is Rex Grossman’s father.

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 17, 2009 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

lol

ok can’t argue that one, well played.

by reefermadness3 on Nov 17, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

lol!

Huzzah!

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 17, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Bears Problems simple!

THEY CAN NOT RUN THE DAMN BALL!

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Nov 17, 2009 9:45 AM CST reply actions  

I think we need to get cutler

a body language coach. His facial expressions and mannerisms come off as cavalier. I’m not saying he means to come off that way but he does.
Another thing is i think we need to get away from the tom landry player whisperer coach. I’m sorry but between jauron and Lovie i have had enough. It is time to get back to the screamer. I miss Ditka. Maybe Gruden if he doesn’t go back into coaching this year.

by Jhitt81 on Nov 17, 2009 9:58 AM CST reply actions  

Wow

Are you serious with your two points? You’re starting to sound like Rick Morrissey.

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 17, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

I am totally serious

He comes off as petulant with the way he acts. We need someone who will be a leader when things go bad. Not sulk on the sidelines. I’ve watched alot of cutlers games and he has always acted like that. He is now the face of our franchise and he needs to act like it. Like i said before, I don’t know if he means to, but he does come off that way and i’m not alone. Alot of people have noticed and commented on it. He is old enough to realize that how he is percieved by the fans is an important part of playing pro football. This isn’t college he is getting payed literally tens of millions of dollars.

by Jhitt81 on Nov 17, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Does upper management

micro-manage your facial expressions where you work?

-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox

by David Taylor on Nov 17, 2009 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not Payed Millions

of dollars and projected as the face of my organization. If i were then yes i would fully excpect them to have a say in how i carry and present myself. Again this isn’t college or a mechanic shop.

by Jhitt81 on Nov 17, 2009 1:50 PM CST up reply actions  

sure thing, bud.

Go ahead and nit-pick your franchise quarterback to death until he gets fed up and doesn’t want to re-sign. Or possibly forces a trade before hand. Don’t even take into account that he’s being beaten into the ground play after play.

Let’s do it your way and friggin’ worry about making sure he’s all smiles on the sidelines. You know, since he makes more than $8.75 while flippin’ burgers. LMAO.

-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox

by David Taylor on Nov 17, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow

way to come back like a spurned child.
sure thing, bud.

by Jhitt81 on Nov 17, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?

-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox

by David Taylor on Nov 17, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

This more the "professional" look you want in a QB?

To GQ for me, but definitely professional.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.

by Just Dave on Nov 17, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

How do you know if he's a leader or not?

Good God. I’ve seen so many people all of a sudden turn into nonverbal communication experts. A lot of people have commented and seen it; most of the people who have commented on it are idiots (see Rick Morrissey). I’ve seen it, and I’d be scratching my damn back too just to make sure it was there after a game.

I don’t give a flying hell as to how he presents himself to me. He’s a damn football player, not a stand-in for Martha Stewart. His job is to go out, do the best he can, and win football games, not stand stoically at a press conference.

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 17, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

How do you know if he is a good leader or not.

Last i checked you didn’t know jay cutler either.
Also it doesn’t take an expert to realize what kind of attitude he presents. If you would actually read my post i didn’t say he actually had that attitude(let alone that he was a good or bad leader) he just comes off that way.
You should care how he represents himself on and off the field because(as demonstrated numerous times) the way a man carries and presents himself is indicitive to the type of person he is. If you don’t understand or believe that you need to grow up.
In referrence to the point about his job being to go out and win football games. Seriously i know you are not that nieve. You know exactly what me and everyone else is talking about. Just pretending like you don’t care won’t make it go away.

by Jhitt81 on Nov 17, 2009 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Unbelievable

I want to help you, but I’ll start bleeding internally again.

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 17, 2009 8:04 PM CST up reply actions  

He's.....a......FOOTBALL PLAYER NOT GAHNDI. Jeez...

I would like Jay to represent himself on the field by throwing touchdowns. I’d like him to do whatever it is he wants to do off the field as long as it’s legal (just like any other american citizen would be expected to act).

Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!

by Ditkavsworld on Nov 17, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions  

This crap

about scrutinizing each and every teeny tiny shifting eyebrow, shoulder lurch, eyelash bat, mouth corner moistening, nose wrinkle, arm repositioning, foot shuffling, nose hair wavering and pupil contraction of Jay Cutler’s—is just pathetic.

It has been my experience that people who actually make an issue out of Jay’s “demeanor” and “body language” and such are by-and-large unoriginal, unthinking SHEEP.

The same people who hear something in the media and re-spew it repeatedly, ad nauseum, as if it’s Holy Gospel and needs to be sung from on high, from each and every mountian top.

Simply put—some twobit pundit or scorned coach/writer/player with an agenda as obvious as thier ignorance says something negative about Jay, and it plants that little seed for people to seek out validation about the accusation.
There’s been a lot Jay-hating in the media, and like everything else the media feeds us, there will be those simpletons who swallow it and echo it, because that’s what they do.

In short, everyone’s told you Jay is “petulant” (Christ, I wonder how many even knew that word before Jay came along?) and a sore-loser and a brat, so at the first sign of adversity for the Bears, everyone and their crippled Grandmother start scrutinizing the poor guy for anything THEY can interpret as justification for all the crap they’ve already swallowed hook, line and sinker.
 
They seek validation for the opinions they’ve mindlessly, willingly adopted after being spoon-fed them by the mainstream media.

My humble advice: look at FACTS, and for think for yourfreakingself.

There’s not a single former coach or team-mate of Jay’s out there who’s uttered a bad word about him and his leadership, is there? .
 
By all acounts of people who would actually KNOW (people who have no agenda to push or axe to grind)), he’s never been anything but a consummate professional and proficient leader.
 
And for the verbal exchanges with refs or Rivers or Ryans or whoever—I chalk that up to being a fiery and passionate competitor and nothing more.

Enough of playing judge, jury and executioner about this man’s talent, attitiude, outlook and moral fiber based solely a few stupid nuanced movements, random gesticulations, or otherwise innocuous expressions.

It’s a bunch of something out of nothing, making a Mt. Everest out of a single pellet of mole poop.

I believe, what you read into Jay’s body language and demeanor ultimately says more about you than it does about him.

Judge the man by what he does on the field. And to a lesser extent by what he actually says.

Everything else is irrelevant malarkey.

by Amishbear on Nov 18, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

So if they come to that conclusion on their own they're still a sheep?

Geez. Settle, settle, have some meds and go lay down for an hour. Maybe some people just love playing amateur psychologist.

I think (read: THINK) that some people, after seeing their QB throw a pick, happen to want their QB to check pictures, talk with coaches, talk with WRs, do anything to ensure that said pick doesn’t happen later in the game. We haven’t necessarily seen that often when the camera is on him on the sidelines – of course, what happens when the camera is away, we don’t know.

Here’s what I’m looking at. He’s thrown 17 damn interceptions at one game over the halfway point. On him, on Hester, on the O-Line not giving him enough time, on Turner for bad calls, I don’t care. They are picks. I would LOVE to see my QB doing something to ensure those 17 interceptions don’t happen again. Talk with the WR, make sure he knows the route, ask him how the turf is when he’s running. Watch what the D is doing in coverage when you’re on the field, look at the pics. Talk with your coach/coordinator, make sure that you know your job on that play. Talk with your backup even, see if he’s noticing something you aren’t. Not all the camera angles of Jay on the sideline are showing this type of work. I assume he’s doing some, but I’d like to actually “see” it a little more. If Rex was “Eff it I’m going deep” Jay is “Eff it I got that pinhole.”

Ever think if there’s some media “hate” or criticism, that it might be deserved given the high price we paid for him? Just because of that everything is naturally scrutinized. As far as I’m concerned, regardless of price, 17 picks is 17 damn picks and the whole offense is to blame.

You know what, I’m happy Jay is being criticized a little bit – I have no sacred cows (like some want Jay to be) on this team. I don’t read body language, but I know what picks tell me. Blame them on whoever you want. They indicate that something in the passing game is NOT working, and if the QB is the hypothetical leader of the offense, you want him working on that with everyone.

Or would you rather all the media say “Jay is good, Jay is great, these 17 interceptions mean nothing, let’s not talk about this at all” and NOT provide what could be a legit discussion point? If the media discovered it, I’m sure other, SELF-THINKING fans, have thought about it too.

by SJS_illini on Nov 18, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

No no

It was more content-related.

Look, my only thing is that I don’t want us Bears fans to continually nitpick. Once we do that, Cutler will throw us a giant middle finger and take him and his talents elsewhere.

I like Jay and I want him to win just as bad as you do. However, I’m not going to get on him for how he acts at a damn press conference. I’ll admit when he makes mistakes, but I’m sure as hell going to point out when it wasn’t his fault either. Does that make me a Cutler sycophant? No. Makes me realistic.

And yes, I have thought about why we aren’t better. Our OL is bad, our receivers are iffy, and sometimes Jay has to make split-second decisions that are the wrong ones. That’s why.

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 18, 2009 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

We're on the same page - I don't understand why I'm getting railed.

It’s one thing to nitpick, but it’s another to lay the lumber where it’s due, and with the picks still coming like they are, Jay deserves his. It isn’t just Jay. It’s the group of human turnstiles, the receivers, the plays, the lack of running game, Jay, everything. I never once said “BLAME JAY IT IS ALL HIS FAULT” – he needs to be looked at with just as sharp an eye as everyone else gets.

I’m not at all getting on him for how he acts at a press conference or anything like that. I just want to see him and this offense stop turning the ball over. We agree some of those picks aren’t his fault.

I got the impression from Amish that those who criticize Cutler are only meatballs who believe everything a talking head says, which was the main point I was challenging. If that wasn’t his intent I apologize.

Look, I was mildly pleased to see Jay come to town – I was happy that he’s a better QB than Orton, but I didn’t think the improvement was enough to warrant the holes we could have filled with the higher draft picks. And Angelo tried patching the O-Line holes with old lineman, but now half our line is probably going to RETIRE at the end of the year and we’re going to be worse off unless we strike major oil (you know, cause of all the digging we’ll have to do) in the draft or someone performs majorly over their head. The decline was there to see last year, there was no way we were going to plug in a better QB with more talent and treat that like our magic wand to awesomeness.

For the price we paid, he does deserve a sharp look, but I understand, have understood, and know that not all of it is his fault.

by SJS_illini on Nov 18, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Then I misread you and I apologize.

I'M A MAN! I'M 23!

by ChiFan13 on Nov 18, 2009 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Your impression

is completely wrong—it’s a dramatic oversimplification (and mis-read) about what I said.

I thought my points were pretty obvious. (but I do appreciate the pre-emptive apology…) :-)

Judge the man by what he does on the field. And to a lesser extent by what he actually says.

Everything else is irrelevant malarkey.

So my response was clearly about the critics of Cutler’s demeanor/perceived attitude/facial expressions/body language, who (whether they realize it or not) take their cue from the media.

It was NOT about criticizing his play on the field.

In that regard, he’s FAIR GAME. How could he not be?

Which also means right now he shoulders a big ugly chunk of responsibility.

Sure, WR blunders, woefully inept oh-no!-line play, and unimaginative and ineffective play-calling have all contributed to his struggles, but a good portion of those picks land squarely on his shoulders.

Unequivocably. Absolutely. Jay is to blame. I never for a second said anything BUT that.

(However, I think to say anything critical to the extent of:
—he’s a total bust
—we clearly got robbed in the trade
—he will never amount to anything, blah blah blah

at THIS point is simply being prematurely over-reactive/overly dramatic and overly-judgmental…don’t you?)

Point is—let’s focus on the PICKS, on the PLAY, his mechanics and/or decision-making and what’s going wrong there

NOT on the fact that his eyes move slightly down and to the left whenever he answers questions at a press conference, or that his smile seems awkward and out of place, or that his hair is dishevelled on the sideline and he crosses his arms and wrinkles his nose when the wind blows easterly after 8 p.m. on even numbered days of the month, et cetera.

It’s just plain silly to do so
(and ultimately self-defeating to the fanbase—as others have said, you risk pushing Jay away and screwing up his relationship with the city/team/fanbase.media with all that irrelevant nitpickery)

I thought the distinction I had made there was pretty clear, but maybe not. Perhaps it needs a re-reading?

Anyway,
Bear Down.

by Amishbear on Nov 19, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Meh.

I had an answer typed up, read it, deleted it, rewrote it, read it again, deleted it again, then decided I’m too tired and just don’t care to properly respond to this base allegation that I can’t read, so I’ll just say “I read your post, I didn’t misread it based on how you wrote it, we agree at the core of the matter so why the hell are we fighting” and bid you good night. If you want more, email me or something. (shrugs)

by SJS_illini on Nov 19, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

We ARE

in agreement. and I’d say And we are definitely not fighting. I’d say we just had a miscommunication.
 
(Fighting is what I used to do outside of bars, or currently do with my wife…haha).

And I do subscribe to your point that Jay should be doing everything in his power to correct his/and other mistakes. Absolutley. (or else we’re gonna have .500 QB for the rest of his time in Chi!)

Maybe he can do more. Or maybe he doesn’t want to belabor what is already an obvious mistake with obvious reasons for the pick.

(For example: If I drive too fast on ice and wreck, I’d rather not go back and measure the thickness of the ice to prevent it next time—I know what I did wrong, and I’ll be more cautious next time…)

I honestly think this might be how Jay works/thinks/feels.

But I honestly don’t know.

No excuses, but If he’s really getting his blood checked 15 times a game on the sideline, that might be a factor, too.

I am all for holding him accountable, but I am against the feeding frenzy (blood in the water!) media and the people who would parrot it.

I have no sacred cows, either (In fact, tend to believe the best hamburger comes from sacred cows). :-)

Anyway, I wasn’t trying to be condescending or imply that you were comprehensionally-challenged, and I apologize if my tone came off that way.

We’re all good.
Our football team might not be, but we are. ;-)

by Amishbear on Nov 20, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

'Sall good.

And I apologize for being a grade-A asshat and (okay I’ll admit it) slightly misinterpreting.

by SJS_illini on Nov 23, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Face of the Franchise.

Ditka Avenger and Original WCG Power Poster!!!!

by Ditkavsworld on Nov 17, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

He looks determined to me!

"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton

by HoneyBear on Nov 17, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

How about Ditka or Butkus for Body Language Coach?

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

by phastphil on Nov 17, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Holy living crap

I just wish everyone would stop questioning Jay Cutler. He’s a stud quarterback. He has the same skill set that he had months ago when we got him. He’s learning. He’s young. He’s thrown some INTs when he shouldn’t, but just let him develop. It has become commonplace to overreact every week after the game. If we win, Jay looks like he’s getting it together and if we lose, we have Gene Wachwhatshisname saying Lovie should bench him. Let’s just get someone who can channel Jay’s frustration (which is rightly due) into something positive.

by ClawsClawsClaws on Nov 17, 2009 10:28 AM CST reply actions  

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