This has been the plan all along.
by No It All on Nov 20, 2009 6:05 PM CST
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PrintThe worst thing about the Bears' current woes is that I am no longer able to feign surprise. Jerry Angelo was brought in specifically because of his success with Tampa Bay. He has done what he was paid to do. The Bears are now remarkably similar to Angelo's Buccaneers team(s). That success came in spite of possibly one of the worst offenses ever for a Super Bowl victor. Hiring him was a validation of the philosophy that success in the NFL can be had without investing in the offensive side of the ball. Angelo was so validated that he did not even bother to bring in an offensive mind as good as or better than Gruden this time around, no need to open the door to possible dissent from offensive minded coaches. The ineptitude of the offense in the wake of JC's arrival and the defenses' inability to stop anybody anymore illustrates how detrimental Angelo's master plan has been to the Bears.
So basically, Jerry Angelo is exactly who everybody knew him to be and the Bears are exactly what he designed them to be. [can also read : Congratulations! We are now the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.]
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2001 was Tony Dungy's last season in Tampa Bay
The offense was ranked 15th. The defense #8.
In Jon Gruden’s first three seasons in Tampa (including their Super Bowl in 2002) they were ranked 18th, 18th and 23rd on offense.
The offense went backwards under Gruden.
In Dungy’s last season the defense was ranked #8. Grudens first three defenses were ranked #1, #4 and #10.
The defense got better under Jon Gruden. Not the offense.
Not exactly what most people think.
Why did the defense get better under Gruden? After all, longtime DC Monte Kiffin was still in charge there. Mostly the same players.
One (read one) reason may be this: Little Chuckie got in the faces of his defenders. He lit a fire under their asses. He challenged them to score more by saying that “if you’re such a great defense you should score more than you do” and he mocked them in practice, telling them that his offense was going to kick their asses all day long.
(In Dungy’s last season the defense scored twice. In Gruden’s first season they scored nine times).
This is well documented by some of their best players on defense. Guys like Sapp and Lynch. They have talked about getting so mad at Gruden that they went out and played their asses off . . . just to show their head coach that they much better than he was giving them credit for.
It’s called getting more out of your players than the other coach did.
Few know that he did that on the defensive side of the ball and not the offensive side of the ball early on in Tampa Bay.
LOL!
Nice, so Jerry Angelo is who we thought he was! I hate to say it but I can’t argue any of the points you made. Perhaps this is why he has struggled in the Draft on the Offensive side of the ball as well.
I posted earlier this week (Cutler, Brees and Warner)
about how all the teams with the best records in 2008 (11-5 to 13-3) all had defenses in the top 12.
Tennesse is a perfect example. Aging QB.. No receivers. #2 defense. 13-3 record.
If you play excellent/great defense your odds of making the playoffs are huge, no matter what your offense does.
The Bears have struggled on offense for decades. Their problem under Lovie is this. In his two playoff seasons (2005 -2006) they were ranked #1 & #3 on defense. In their two nonplayoff seasons (2007 – 2008) they were ranked #16 on defense.
Currently they are ranked #19.
Last season, 10 of the 12 playoff teams had a defense ranked in the top 12.
What I Think You Fail To Recognize
Is the days of running the ball and playing good Defense does not win Superbowls anymore. Did the Indianapolis Colts beat us in 2006 because they had a better Defense? Hell no, it was Peyton Manning and his high powered Offense. The Patriots, how many Superbowl rings Tom Brady have? 3? And he’s still in his twenties I believe. Arizona getting to the Superbowl last Year. Kurt Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin. How did they lose last Year’s Superbowl? Ben Roethlistberger, Santonio Holmes and Hines Ward on the final play of the game. The NFL has evolved into a passing Offense game.
Didn't say anything about running the football
You must have misread me.
I was strictly talking about defense. Reread my post and show me where I said anything about running the football.
I Read Your Post axhelm.
What it stated was regular season records and Defensive rankings. What was left out was the Run Arizona made when the got to the Playoffs as NFC Champions. And what that tells me is if you have a DECENT Defense and a prolific passing game, you can go all the way in this league. The new NFL has left Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith stuck back in time.
The Cards were 9-7 in the regular season.
My post concerned the regular season only.
That said, the Cardinals have much better talent on the defensive side of the ball than their 28nd ranking in 2008 would show.
By virtue of drafting in the top ten almost every year, they have aqcuired some excellent young talent like Darnell Dockett, Karlos Dansby, Antrel Rolle and Dominique Rogers Cromartie to go along with one of the best safeties in the game, Adrian Wilson.
This is the main reason that after their Super Bowl appearance, head coach Ken Whisenhunt fired their DC. With basically the same players as last season (even accounting for the fact that they lost one of their best D-Linemen to Free Agency – Antonio Smith) they are now currently 14th, a big improvement over 28th.
Passing is great. I’m in favor of it. Still, it’s pretty clear. Almost always, unless you have a top ranked defense, you’re not going very far. They are always exceptions to every rule . . . but that’s just what they are. Exceptions.
I'm all for a great defense...
No doubt a good defense is fundamental. It sets the tone of the entire team. Cliches like “defense wins championships” are nice and all, but the relationship between O and D can’t be mutually exclusive. [side note: I think the decline of the defense is more responsible for the absence of explosive returns on special teams than Hester playing WR].
It is a functional offense that allows a team with a solid defense to take the next step win a Super Bowl. So we got Cutler! And wow was Matt Forte great as a rookie. But not so fast. Low and behold there are no serviceable receivers or offensive linemen on this NFL franchise nor will they signed any free agents when they become available.
Your account of Gruden’s in practice routine is insightful, but everybody knew that that the defense on that team was far superior to the offense regardless of Chucky’s rhetoric. I feel as though with Kiffin there and years under Dungy’s system the D needed very little from Gruden, allowing him to yell at them while coaching Trent Dilfer and Joe Jurevicius to Super Bowl Championships. It simply baffles me that a company worth more than $1 Billion refuses to pay the going rate (?) for an offensive coordinator who has already established himself on the NFL level.
Regardless of their ranking, the Cardinals defense played awesome at the end of last year. The first Cardinals defender to reach the ball carrier would bring him down. When that happens week after week you have a chance.
The mental side of the game is all too often ignored
Both Sapp & Lynch stood before the cameras and talked about how much Gruden motivated them to play even better defense in 2002. Those are their words. Not mine. To see and hear these comments watch America’s Game – the 2002 Tampa Bay Buccanners.
Yes, everybody knows that their defense was superior to their offense. That’s not the point. Gruden mocked them. Told them that if they’re so great they should score more on defense. The end result is that they jumped from #8 to #1. The scored twice on defense in Dungy’s last season. Nine times in Chuckie’s first. Those increases are significant.
Regarding the Cardinals it’s pretty self evident. When that team plays as the favorite they usually struggle. That helps to account for their many losses at home this season (2-3). When they play as the underdog, they tend to play better. That helps to account for their many road wins this season (4-0).
Essentialy they play better when they are being thought of as the underdog or lesser team.
When Cris Collingsworth called them the worst playoff team in history last year, it lit a fire under their asses that last the entire playoff run. Darnell Dockett often talked about how disrespected they felt as a team and they fed off that disrespect.
Tell the Cards how good they are and they often come out lethargic.
Tell them they suck and they come out ready to play from the opening kickoff.
It’s all mental.
I don't question your account of what occurred on the Tampa teams
I just want to point out that while motivation is nice and was eventually able to put the Bucs over the top, you need fundamentals, talent and a scheme before motivation alone will make a difference. It is as if Gruden was able to instill fundamentals and a scheme on offense, because they had none, and only had to motivate the defense because they had been coached and loaded with talent at the direction of JA.
Gruden took the same
talent (players) whho had been taught the same fundamentals (position coaches) and played the same scheme (Monte Kiffin).
It was all the same. Gruden, as I stated earlier helped light a fire under their asses. That’s what Sapp & Lynch said.
The ability to motivate your team is more than nice. It’s often the difference betwen winning and losing in the NFL.
Vernon Davis was drafted #6 overall by the 49ers in 2006. He has long been considered a massive underachiever by 49er fans. In his first game under new head coach Mike Singletary he was blasted by the new coach and sent to the showers.
Since that time he has ascended to team captain and is now finally starting to justify his lofty draft status. In his first 40 games he had 9 TD passes. In 9 games this season he has 7. He credits Singletary’s special brand of motivation for the difference in his play.
Davis is a much better player not because of any changes in talent, fundamentals and scheme. It’s because of Singletary’s coaching.
offence +defence
where are the great minds when you need them.when the game evolves and teams adopt plays that work, where are the inovators that come up with play formations that nullifies offenses and defenses.would a 4-6 defense stop a cardinals or new england offense or new orleans play making.or would an old fashioned power i with fullback blocking keep a defense on the field for more than 40 minutes on the field,thereby when its down to the last two possesions in the final half the offense would have its way with the opposition and practically score at will. MONSTERS OF THE MIDWAY nickname wasnt given to them it was earned. and when you berate your defense as was described by axthelm about grudem, he was only getting out of them what was already there and would require the co-operation of the rest of the staff.
Offense + Defense. = The 2009 Baltamore Ravens.
That Team is scary and does have both. Other than the usual suspects on Defense, they have QB Joe Flaco, RB Ray Rice, WR Derrick Mason. The 2 Teams I can think of that have slightly above average Defenses and Hi Octane Offenses are Indianapolis and New England. Arizone also has a nice combination of these two. The Bears you say? Ahhhhhhhh, not so much.
Ah the Ravens
Philosophically I feel like the Ravens are who we long to be right now. Great defensive team and last year the addition of a decent QB, Flacco, put them over the top, allowing them to get them to the AFC championship. This Formula worked for Bmore because their ability to maintain their defensive identity and intensity set Flacco up for success. Not only have the Bears failed to improve on defense they have declined, sharply. The decline of the Bears defense no longer means the D compensates for historical deficiencies on offense. The team has not given JC the magic solution/x factor he otherwise might have been. A healthy Urlacher might have made the D good enough for the formula to work… but i take little solace from that as one persons absence should not expose this many weaknesses in a team..
Well Said!
That’s a nice breakdown and an excellent comparison. We will play the Raven’s later this Year.
Thank You.
That’s what I’ve been saying all along about the Bears defense. The biggest problem with this team is ranking 16th, 16th and now 19th in the past 2 1/2 seasons on defense.
Since 2000 this is how Baltimore has ranked defensively:
1,4,19,6,6,10,1,22,3. They’ve been out of the top 10 twice in 9 seasons. (22%).
This is how the Bears have ranked since 2000:
20,1,25,22,13,1,3,16,16. They’ve been out of the top 10 six times in 9 seasons. (66%).
People talk about windows for victory in sports
referring to a small amount of time before a certain team/roster can succeed. Part of my frustration is the organization has hung its hat on the seasons when they were ranked 1 and 3 while acting oblivious to the last 2 seasons at 16. As if it wasn’t happening, complete denial, well they did bring in Rod Marinelli.
The secondary has been the achilles heal of the Bears D as long as I can remember. I’m not sure what the stats are for the Ravens secondary, but thats where they are light years better. Ed Reed is awesome and their secondary always seems to play well, and if not they still take pride in making people pay for having the audacity to catch the ball. The Bears don’t even have that fire anymore, even though they are giving Costas a wicked cold shoulder this weekend.
And We Left Out Cincinnatti.
Another example of a Team with a High Octane Offense. They addressed the defensive side of the ball via free agency and the Draft in the offseason. They are an excellent example of a Team that has a G.M that can identify their weaknesses and takes the corrective action needed to make them a contender.
The biggest change on the defensive
side of the ball for the Bengals has been DC Mike Zimmer.
That Is True.................
But Rookie Rey Maualuga, strong side Linebacker and second Year player, Keith Rivers, weak side Linebacker are making a difference on this team. These two players have 45 solo tacles, 28 assist, 3 forced fumbles combined. Rey Maualaluga looks like he was a steal at number 6 in the second round of the 2009 draft out of USC.
You can't have one without the other
Regardless of what they are ranked both the offense and the defense need to contribute. Neither are doing their job for the Bears right now.
Cinci has been playing hard and with heart for awhile. When you can do that defensive success is inevitable. Once you get that an offense with Carson Palmer and 85 is gonna put up some points.
So the answer to the Bears woes is to hire Jon Gruden?
I’d be fine with that.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
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