Cutler Not Being Coached Up
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 26, 2009 10:00 AM CST
in Notes
82 comments
Listening to former Bears QB Jim Miller on the Comcast post game after the Eagles loss, it became even clearer, the Bears are simply not coaching Cutler up. Miller questioned what's being taught to Cutler, both the mental aspects of the position and his fundamentals. To paraphrase Miller, ‘you can't trade for a good QB and expect him to be good without constant coaching', or something to that extent.
He called into question both Ron Turner and QB coach Pep Hamilton, while reflecting on his time in New England spent under then QB coach (and current Denver Bronco head coach) Josh McDaniels, and then Patriot offensive coordinator (and current Notre Dame head coach) Charlie Weis. Every QB meeting he had in N.E. was spent with these two coaches along with head coach Bill Belicheck. Compare that brain trust to Turner, Hamilton, and Lovie Smith.
I can't honestly say I know that much about Hamilton other than his bio, but I've never seen him described as a "wonder kid", "up and comer", "future head coach material", or stuff like that. He very well could be a burgeoning offensive mastermind, and I hope he is, but looking around the NFL and all the publicity surrounding many young coaches prior to them getting a head job you have to wonder if Hamilton were that good, wouldn't there be someone singing his praises by now? Josh McDaniels, Mike Tomlin, Raheem Morris, Eric Mangini, Todd Haley, and Jim Schwartz were all heralded as hot young coaching commodities before getting their big break. Does anyone have Hamilton on a hot potential coaches list?
Jay Cutler is a 26 year old talent that needs to be coached up to reach his full potential. I feel last year in Denver he merely scratched the surface of what he'll eventually become, but he'll need the right offensive coaches surrounding him.
Getting back to Miller, the particular play that got Miller all riled up was the missed TD on the Greg Olsen overthrow in the second quarter. First off, shouldn't Olsen have dove for the ball? Antonio Gates makes that catch. Tony Gonzalez makes that catch. As does Vernon Davis. If Olsen wants to be an elite tight end then at least give an elite effort. But it wasn't the miss by Olsen that Miller didn't like, it was Cutler not throwing to Jason McKie in the flat. He pointed out that as soon as the Eagles blitzed from the right side his immediate hot route should have been the fullback in the flat. There should have been no back foot throw, there should have been a simple set up and toss to a wide open McKie.
Miller also wondered if when the play call is coming in from Ron Turner, if Turner drops some tidbits of info with the play. For example, after the play call does Turner mention; "OK, it's 2nd and 10, if the play isn't there throw it away" or the occasional, "We're in the Red Zone, don't force anything, we'll take the 3 points!", I guess no one really knows except those with access to the radio feed, but we have to wonder.
If the right coaches aren't surrounding Jay Cutler, and some offensive stability isn't put around him, I fear his play may continue this trend to mediocrity. Get a system in place next year that fits his talents, and stick with it. It's pretty much a given that Turner can't be allowed to come back next year, and with the way the Bears have operated in the past in terms of Lovie Smith and his coaching hires, you have to wonder if the new offensive coordinator is on the current staff. Could Pep Hamilton be promoted? If so I'm all for Jim Miller as the next QB coach.
And by the way... Have a Happy Thanksgiving everybody!!!
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Absolutely on Target!
We have a great asset in Cutler. He needs to be coached-up by the right people. Ron Turner has had his chance as has Pep Hamilton. If Turner goes, then Lovie has to go. Who in their right mind would sign up as an OC if the HC only has a year to go on his contract? Said another way, a new HC will want to bring his own team in & be able to name his own OC. Could you imagine how screwed up Cutler would be with two OC’s in two years? The issue is Lovie-not the OC! If you believe most of the league has caught up with & knows how to attack the Tampa Cover-2 & what Lovie has to offer, then Lovie has got to go-he can go now or at the end of this year or he can go a year from now when his contract ends.How much of Lovie’s remaining $10-$11 million is being paid over a number of future years? I doubt much of it is being paid in large lump sum installments in the next 1-5 years because the taxes would eat you alive.Therefore, the actual cash flow hit may not be as great as we think it is. Fire Lovie soon, pay him off over the years per his contract & get the right HC in & let him pick his staff & coach cutler up.
by nosmo343 on Nov 26, 2009 10:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
"Could you imagine how screwed up Cutler would be with two OC’s in two years? "
You mean 3 in 3 years!!! Fire Ron… Keep Lovie… Bring in Martz (OC)… FIX the O-Line… D will be fine with less injuries & addd talent… if that don’t work.. THEN we shake it up!! IMO
GO BEARS!!!!
by ChiTownSounds on Nov 26, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My Coaching tree would look like this
Mike Holmgren for GM
Bill Cowher for Head Coach
Charlie Weis for OC
Dick LeBeau DC/Assistant Head Coach
Jeremy Bates QB Coach
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 26, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why Weis??
He hasn’t done anything since NE.
by T.Moore on Nov 26, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you on, Why Weis?
Notre Dame is just as disappointing as it was when he got there. Frankly, I like the Mike Martz experiment better at OC. Who knew Jim Miller was so insightful? Maybe he has some coaching in his future.
by Big Ike on Nov 26, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The issue with Weis and ND is...
as Head Coach at college level he can spend 16 hours a week in practice and he has to split time between crafting the offense and defense along with recuiting. I bet if you took away everything but the Offense and allowed him to coach, train, and mentor properly, he can come back to being a good coach, IMHO.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 26, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's cool and all.
But probably reeeeeeeeeeaaalllly expensive.
"I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule."-Randal Graves
by KDoggers on Nov 27, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are probably correct
For Holmgren you can bet he is going to want Parcells’ money(4 years/$16M), add 25% to that so maybe 4 years $20M-$25M.
Cowher is going to want Tom Coughlin money(4/$21M), so 3 years $21M.
Dick LeBeau will probably cost a 4th rounder and $1.2M
Now Weis will still be getting paid from ND, so can probably get him around $800k a year.
Jeremy Bates will want somewhere around $500k and some type of title like Assistant OC or something similar.
So yeah it is not a cheap, but you hopefully we get what we pay for, hopefully.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 27, 2009 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And come to think of it
Holmgren is going to want to bring in his own guy, while Cowher will want more control, so I don’t think that would work after all.
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 27, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In general I agree with the entire post but there are aspects that we'll never be able to know about
1. Is Cutler getting the coaching and just doesn’t listen?
2. How much actual authority do either Pep Hamilton or Ron Turner have to force Cutler to do certain things?
3. Is Lovie backing them up when they try to coach him up?
4. Is it even Lovie’s call? They possibly mortgaged the future on this deal, so do the people above Lovie prevent any real discipline when it comes to their prized acquisition?
If any or all of the above are true, the problems are never going away. It’s tough with a “nice guy” coach like Lovie to guage what accountability they are holding Jay to in the way of mechanics and poor decisions, but his history would indicate that it’s a pretty good bet that the inmates are running the asylum.
by BearFan611 on Nov 26, 2009 10:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
There is no accountability
in the Bears’ organization. I’m sick of all the pity for Cutler. Wasn’t he supposed to make everyone better, including Turner. Go figure, coaching does matter after all.
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler is not a finished product
This is only his 3rd full season. I’ve been as tough on Cutler as anybody but for him to slowly regress the way he has, shows you that there is a lack of direction and coaching going on. Considering he’s on a new team with guys who weren’t even NFL receivers last year, is a testament to Cutler. So to answer your question, he has made everyone better
by Dils on Nov 26, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Has he really regressed
or is his play just a derivative of the talent surrounding him. A QB will naturally play better when playing with better receivers, a solid OL, and good coaching. I really don’t see how he has made anyone better this year.
Does Cutler has what it takes to develop into a “franchise QB”. It’s quite possible, we are looking at a player who was severely overrated in Denver last year and lacks the skills needed above the pads to develop into an elite QB.
Jeff George ring a bell?
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect example...
Week 2 against Pittsburgh.
Jay Cutler outplayed Ben Rothlisberger and guided his team to victory. People like to compare Jay to Jeff George because George was a malcontent with a great arm. Or because it’s just the fun thing to do. But I think it’s the lazy thing to do and it’s not fair to Jay.
Jay Cutler is the goods. The last couple of weeks are the product of a QB being too careful. Brett Farve said it best. Jay just needs to keep flinging it. Im not a stat guy but go look up Farve’s first 70 games and look up Cutler’s. I don’t see Jeff George, I see Brett Farve.
by Dils on Nov 26, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett
was just talking up the competition and doing Bus Cook a favor. Imo, Cutler is at best very inconsistent. Right now he closer to very bad than good. The stats(for all nine games) confirm my assessment of him. George would be an upgrade at this point. He’s only in his fourth season and time will tell. He’ll play better only if the franchise gets their sh#t together. That’s a big if with the clowns who occupy Halas Hall. There are many personnel/coaching upgrades that are needed, as you are well aware of. As I’ve said many times, Cutler has some serious issues between his ears. The next Brett Favre? Come on Dils!
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be
ten games. Time to go eat some turkey. Have a great Thanksgiving kid and don’t miss Orton vs Manning tonight!
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh good did we watch Orton on Thanksgiving?
Not bad huh. Maybe hes not as bad as what alot of bears fans thought. The saying dont know what ya got till its gone kinda rings a bell here!!!!
by broncosorbust on Nov 28, 2009 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about this...
We trade Coach’s and O-Lines too?
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
by gaclaudy on Nov 28, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Farve had great WRs and talent around him as well as more experience.And good Coaches
Cutler has none of those things around him.You are going to evalutate him with bad coaching,inexperienced WRs who never finish their routes,and the WORST O-line and lack of running game because of it?Thats not much of an evaluation C’mon man. Also happy thanksgiving
by T.Moore on Nov 26, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll go along
So tell me..how did JA evaluate Orton? He played under the same conditions.
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not entirely true.
"I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule."-Randal Graves
by KDoggers on Nov 27, 2009 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gyarr,
That is, not entirely true. Jay has been sacked 20 times in 10 games. Kyle was sacked 27 in 15. This points to an offensive line for Kyle that’s superior to Jay’s. Given that Kyle is, generally speaking, less mobile than Jay, it shows that there’s a drain in talent at important positions.
Remember, Omiyale and Pace were signed because we lost people in that area of the field.
"I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule."-Randal Graves
by KDoggers on Nov 27, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes instead of taking the
sack or throwing it away, Cutler just throws it to the other team. Good point! The line in 2008, was just about the same as the current one. The 2009 receivers are better than the 2008 group. Let’s face it, Bears management does a horrible job of supporting our QBs. Although he wasn’t nearly as talented as Orton or Cutler, Grossman had some of the same issues.
by rocko1 on Nov 27, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Go check those numbers
and get back to me. There really isn’t that much of a difference. But hey you’re the one who started the comarisons. You want to compare him to Jeff George right? Jeff George best season ever is barely comparable to Cutler’s 2nd full season! So who has the unfair comparison? Come on Rocko!
by Dils on Nov 26, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know one guy who had
great Thanksgiving…..my man….Kyle Orton. Now that is how you play QB. Leadership baby! you see him get in the face of the DE. Time for a victory martini and cigar! I love my adopted team in Denver. Just why did we trade KO?
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question,
Were you saying that while he was in the process of losing 4 in a row? Just wondering.
Leadership is nice when your o-line gives him 5 seconds to throw a ball and he can throw a ball 2 feet over Brandon Marshall’s head and it can result in a first down. Cutler throws a pass like that and Olsen can’t make the play for a TD and Cutler catches the hell for it. It’s the little things.
by Dils on Nov 27, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, let's get the facts straight
Ravens…check..Kyle wasn’t good enough.
Steelers…check..Kyle was awful.
Skins…2 TDs then left game with injury and lead.
Chargers..entered game with 4 minutes left in 1st half..down 13-0 and playing hurt.
Give KO some credit Dils. the Broncos played pretty good tonight. Those were two amazing catches by BM! It’s karma baby! Why in the world would Cutler want a ticket out of Denver, with receivers like that?
by rocko1 on Nov 27, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one is taking credit away from Orton
The problem is that SOME people want to make him an elite QB and I’m just not having that. I’ve watched him play this year and he’s had a good year. But he is who he is. A good QB. He’s not a franchise QB. He isn’t a difference maker at the position.
I tell you what, instead of waiting until Orton to has a decent game before you start gloating again and calling the guy the second coming of Tom Brady, wait and make sure that Denver is actually going to PAY him. Because trust me, a top 10 QB is someone you definitely would’ve locked up by now.
by Dils on Nov 27, 2009 9:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lol!
You’re a funny guy. The Broncos are going to follow Angelo’s strategy and wait until Orton leads the NFL in picks, before they extend his contract.
by rocko1 on Nov 27, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would they
Take a chance in an uncapped year of letting the great Kyle Orton go into free agency? Why take the chance of losing him? Because McDaniels believes that a high school QB can run his system, that’s why.
Trust me, depending on how things go for the rest of the season, the Broncos may be looking to upgrade that position. Especially if they lose Brandon Marshall.
by Dils on Nov 27, 2009 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The world of football
according to Dils. A big Grossman supporter….constantly over at MHR earlier in the year to bash Orton…thinks Cutler is the second coming of Brett Favre of all QBs. Your track record speaks for itself. It’s been fun!
by rocko1 on Nov 27, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well to my credit
I didn’t run over to MHR when they were getting their brains bashed in by the Ravens..or Pittsburgh..or..The Redskins…or San Diego. And people in Denver wanted Orton’s head on a platter. You win 1 game in the last 4 weeks and here you are singing the praises of Kyle Orton and gloating again.
I said Farve and Cutler careers at this point in Cutlers career are comparable and I was right. I’ll stand by my stance on Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler and the trade as well.
by Dils on Nov 27, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Favre won the MVP in
his fourth year and had a career 38-26 record. Not even close Dils.
by rocko1 on Nov 27, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you have to keep in mind.
He wanted Matt Cassel. If he had his way, he has Matt Cassel. Nobody has a jonesing for Kyle Orton.
"I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule."-Randal Graves
by KDoggers on Nov 27, 2009 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except women who crave neckbeards
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
by ThorCo on Nov 27, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, if you put Manning on this team,The O-line would make sure that he wouldn't last the season PERIOD.
A QB doesn’t make the line better.Wrs yes but when you have Shawn FREAKIN Rodgers sitting on you there is nothing that a QB can do.Jay can only do so much.But since the team didn’t surround him with at least a decent O-line.And experience on WRs.Then this crap wouldn’t happen.As soon at the Colts drafted Manning.They surrounded a fortress of talent around him.Marvin harrison,Edgerin James (now Addai),Reggie Wayne,Dallas Clark.And they have one of the BEST O-lines in the NFL.They built around their guy even in his 1st 4 years he threw 81 picks did they give up on him? NO! they surrounded him with as much help on personnel and T.Moore who is a great offensive mastermind.And a great Coach in Dungy.
The Bears organisation did the exact opposite.They surrounded him without an O-line.Without a legit WR and a incompetent WR coach.a HORRIBLE OC.All the coaches we have would take 9 freakin weeks to adjust to our problems.And a GM who thinks that it’s ok not to surround him with an EXPERIENCED WR and Coaches who would put a RT on the LG spot and think that they would do well.Cutler made his share of mistakes.But when you put a QB around not just bad talent.But HORRIBLE and PREDICTABLE coaching+Worst O-line EVER+WRs who NEVER finish their routes+and a IDIOT GM=the mistakes Jay makes.
I dare you to name ONE Elite QB who has NO experiened WRs,a Crap O-line,NO running game i mean non existant running game zero nada, and IDIOT GMs and ad predictable COACHING all on their same offense,And has produced at an elite level.Answer is NONE.Jay has proven that with a good coach and nice supporitng cast that he will play at a high level.Problem is NOT Jay.the problem is the Coaching (for years) GM and cheap owners.THATS the problem.
by T.Moore on Nov 26, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
Cutler’s mobility. Manning would be a sitting duck..
by GtM on Nov 26, 2009 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with everything you said, but
tell me..why did we give up on Kyle Orton so soon? In 2008, he played under the same crappy conditions that cutler is dealing with now. Look at how the dude is kicking ass in Denver. I can’t stand Angelo because he doesn’t have a clue when it comes down to the position of QB. News flash….Orton will be a top 10 QB within the next two years.
by rocko1 on Nov 26, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rocko WOW
if you really honestly think orton will be a top 10 qb EVER u have officially proven u dont know 1 thing about football…. orton was mediocre at best and is and will always be considered a game manager mediocre at best….orton has proved NOTHING at denver besides that u cant put the game on his shoulders and he willw in it…..only reasont he broncos were undefeated for that period of time was cuz of pure luck and mainly cuz of their defense… what is it with these long time bears fans where they just REFUSE to want to ever get a good QB or jus a GOOD OFFENSE in general?!?!!?… typcial bears fans never could see a winner on their team even if hes actually on THE TEAM LOL… and like the other guy posted earlier its not cutlers fault why hes playin like this if u put peyton or brady on this team with no O line NO recievers and clowns that u would call coaches (especially turner he wouldnt be able to draw up a successful drive against a high school team with his vanilla predictive play callin, seems like he forgets he doesnt have grossman or orton on his team anymore he should start callin plays thata re more then 5-10 yrds lol anywayy) sorry u jus boiled my blood with that stupid comment about orton bein good… orton isnt good! anyone can look good when ur throwin 5-10 yrds passin screen passes etc…. any qb would have the least amount of int’s witht hat kinda play callin so let me finsih up finally i hope u understand and get this thru ur head orton NEVER will be a good qb EVER and as long as denver has him on their team their are goin nowhere and if by some miracle they would make it int he playoffs only thing they will get is a 1st round exit i GARANTEE IT remember what i said ;)
by purews6muscle on Nov 27, 2009 4:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said before
Orton played with a much better O-line…and he’s not exactly “kicking ass” this year.
The Cincinnati game he got flat out lucky, basically throwing a game ending pick and having it magically bounce into Brandon Stokely’s hands.
The large portion of the rest of the time he’s getting bailed out by a talented wide receiver that I think they’ll tag to keep around, though Marshall probably wants out.
"I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule."-Randal Graves
by KDoggers on Nov 27, 2009 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You just said it.
“Talented wide receiver.”
Did the Bears have any of those in Orton’s tenure here?
Goes to show what a good WR can do for ya.
by SJS_illini on Nov 27, 2009 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Orton will be a top 10 QB within the next two years.
Dude, lay off the wacky baccy. It’s messing with your brain.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Nov 27, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my opinion
Spongie. That’s where I believe Orton’s upside is. It’s ironic That we’re within a post that leans on Jim Miller’s expertise. He’s right about alot of his observations regarding the Bears’ coaching staff and Cutler. He also has stated on several occassions(Sirius Radio show), that he believes Orton can be a top 10 QB.
by rocko1 on Nov 27, 2009 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I refer the right honourable gentleman to m’colleague T.Moore’s opinion below.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Nov 27, 2009 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow just wow
no disrespect though.Orton is a game manager,nothing more.hes good but wont be great.
by T.Moore on Nov 27, 2009 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is a difficult task to pull off.
They surrounded him without an O-line.
I agree with many of your points, but Cutler has made some really poor decisions that had nothing to do with the lack of talent around him (now you’ve got me doing it).
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
by Just Dave on Nov 27, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hot route
Nice write-up! Not sure why Jay would pass to McKie if Olsen is wide open on that play. I understand if everyone is covered, then he’s the guy to target as a “dump-off” pass. Olsen is the correct read because it’s for a TD if he comes up with a fairly routine catch. Also, there was absolutely no need for him to dive for the ball- if you look at the replay, Greg never extended his arms/elbows. Even without doing this he still gets both hands on the football!
"Those guys were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked" - Homer defines the Bears '09 season in less than 12 words.
by propheteer on Nov 26, 2009 11:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
MIllers point was...
a throw to the hot route (FB) would have been an easier throw, his throw to Olsen was a more difficult throw. It should have been caught, however
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 26, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true about the coaching
Definitely true, but I would say the entire team is lacking of the motivation and direction that a good coaching staff needs to provide, and I’ve said before this is not a new development for the Bears, unfortunately. Whatever the reason for the above, we can only speculate.
By the way, I agree with propheteer – why would Cutler pass to McKie if Olsen is wide open. I said in another post that Olsen didn’t make a real effort to catch that ball and I was shocked that he didn’t given the press he’s gotten. Somebody needs to give him a coaching kick in the ass too, it seems.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
by Maelvampyre on Nov 26, 2009 12:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Joe Montana
is commonly considered to be one of , if not the best QB in NFL history.
Without the direct coaching of Bill Walsh (both as his QB coach – working on technique and fundamentals) and as his OC (with Walsh’s innovative West Coast Offense) without those two coaching aspects, the only people in the US who would know who Joe Montana is would be his family and friends.
Certainly not NFL fans.
Coaching matters. Especially at that position.
by axthelm on Nov 26, 2009 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Anyone watching the Lions Packers game?
Lions have some fire. They seem to play with more pride than the Bears are this year.
by Daseabeez on Nov 26, 2009 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's because their
head coach, Jim Schwartz, spent a decade coaching under Jeff Fisher.
Fisher was coached by Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka.
Any coach that has a connection to a coach from the early ’80’s Bears will have a motivated bunch of players.
It’s really too bad that the Bears themselves don’t have any coaches with a connection the the ’85 Bears.
Makes no sense.
But hey, nobody ever accused the McCaskey’s of making sense.
by axthelm on Nov 26, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they might soon.
If they finally realize that they spent 50 mil on a QB that needs a good coaching staff and GM behind him to make good moves to make them a winner.
by Daseabeez on Nov 26, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
They are playing motivated.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
by Maelvampyre on Nov 26, 2009 1:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thats a team with fire but
little talent.
by Daseabeez on Nov 26, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cutler controls the outcome.....
I still strongly believe that Cutler zones in on Olsen way too much, the better Qbs in this league have options that they go to and if my primary reciever is covered I look to my secondary and third option even Forte will be an option. True this needs to be done pretty quickly but the options are there take what the defense gives you is my philosophy dont force it until you and the recievers know each other well enough to know where to go in different situations. Another thing that I see that he doesnt do like the Peyton Mannings is warm up on routes before the game starts and pass it to the area of the end zone where you and your reciever are on the same page so once the game commences the Defense doesnt have a prayer in covering the plays.
by payton#34 on Nov 26, 2009 2:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You're right
The reason Kurt Warner is starting over Matt Leinart in Arizona is not because he has a stronger arm or is more athletic than Leinart. He doesn’t and isn’t.
The reason is this (according to some of the players last season): Warner knows quicker who should be the open receiver on any given play and is faster at getting the ball out to that player.
He’s quicker and faster mentally. That’s it.
That however, doesn’t happen overnight. That’s a QB who has a great grasp of opposing defenses and is on the exact same page with his receivers.
by axthelm on Nov 26, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Warner was also a Leauge MVP.And superbowl champ.I would say thats enough
by T.Moore on Nov 26, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Ken Whisenhunt (in his infinite stupidity)
twice named Matt Leinart (not Kurt Warner) the starter (going into 2007 & 2008).
You would think a former SB winning OC and current head coach would know better. But he didn’t.
But the fact remains that the reason Warner is starting and not Leinart has nothing to do with physical skills. It has everything to do with the mental side of the game.
by axthelm on Nov 26, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Whisenhunt is a great offensive mind.He knew eventually.But i thought dennt green wanted Leinart over Warner.
by T.Moore on Nov 26, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dennis Green did.
Leinart was his #1 draft pick. The QB of the future.
And when Whisenhunt took over in 2007 he too named Leinart the starter. After five games Leinart was injured and Warner started the last eleven.
Totals in 2007?
Leinart: (2 TD’s. 4 INT’s) Warner: (27 TD’s. 17 INT’s).
QB rating? Warner 89.8 L:einart: 61.9.
Completion : Warner: 62.3. Leinart: 53.6%
So what dores Whisenhunt do after the 2007 season? He names Matt Leinart the starter for 2008, not Kurt Warner.
Hello!
by axthelm on Nov 26, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When you draft a QB in the first round
You start him hoping he will be the future, not a 30+ year old QB, especially after Warner hadn’t done so well in NY. Most QB’s don’ play well after they hit that age. Some defy time, but most hit a wall.
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
by ThorCo on Nov 27, 2009 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Warners did have a bunch of hand injuries during his bad years.
It wasn’t until he started wearing gloves on both of his hands during the last game of the 06 season until he started playing like his is now.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
by JoeCB1991 on Nov 28, 2009 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You start hoping?
Warner didn’t do so well in NY cause:
A). He was injured.
B). They didn’t play to his strengths (they were a run-first offense)
C). They wanted to play Eli.
QB’s don’t ‘shrivel up’ after 30. Look at Favre. Dan Marino. And so on. And so on.
RB’s do. Cause of the tremendous pounding they take.
You have this confused.
And you miss the point here entirely.
Beyond the physical element, the most important element for QB play is the mental one: Reading defenses. Finding the open receiver. Etc.
It’s really kind of foolish to think that a rookie in the NFL (like Leinart) is going to do that anywhere near as well as a former league and Super Bowl MVP (Kurt Warner) in regards to that.
Kurt Warner has seen every defense imaginable in the NFL. A rookie like Matt Leinart hasn’t seen any.
The facts are the facts. Warner has blown away Leinart in Arizona.
That answers the question.
Trying to ‘force-feed’ a first rounder isn’t the answer.
The Bears might’ve won the Super Bowl in 2006, but Lovie and JA were willing sign FA Kurt Warner, but not willing to let him compete for the starters job.
Stupid.
by axthelm on Nov 28, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All these amazing QB's after age thirty and you name 2... you've never heard of Mark Brunell, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson?
Sure looks like Kerry Collins did fantastic this year too…no you don’t have to force feed a rookie, but you can’t hold on to an aging QB because you have to be aware that he isn’t the future, maybe Leinart isn’t either, but they had to find out.
I don’t have this confused, when the body plays a physical sport for as long as these guys do, after that many years it is natural for the body to deteriorate..everyone’s does it how it works.
And yes the mental element is important for a QB, but if you don’t have the body, talent, skill for it then all the mental strength in the world isn’t going to make you a good QB.
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
by ThorCo on Nov 29, 2009 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I should have phrased that differently
QB’s tend to slow down around their mid 30’s
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
by ThorCo on Nov 29, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed with Axthelm
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
by JoeCB1991 on Nov 27, 2009 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the last sentence from wilt is my favorite
if he is interested in starting his coaching career with the bears they really should give him a call.
by reefermadness3 on Nov 26, 2009 2:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I know this may be late...
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I hope all of you have the chance to celebrate Turkey Day with those you love.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Nov 26, 2009 5:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
In order for Cutler to reach his full potential the McCaskeys are going to have to get a whole new coaching staff...
That’s build for him to succeed. The McCaskeys can’t just comeback with this same coach and just a new offensive staff and think everything is going to be fine. This offense will be taking a step back if they don’t do a complete overhaul as far as the coaching staff is concern. If they just get a new offensive cordinator and bring back Lovie Smith, you run the risk of Cutler having to learn his 3rd offensive system in 3 years if they replace Smith after next season. The perfect guy to bring Cutler to that next level is Mike Holmgren.
by NiqueBears on Nov 27, 2009 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think that if Todd Haley wasn't a head coach now he could help Cutler a lot.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
by JoeCB1991 on Nov 27, 2009 12:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I would love to see Jim Miller as QB coach. I always liked him as a player. I think he would make a great QB coach.
by Bears Fan Chad on Nov 27, 2009 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
+1
i think he’d be a great fit for the team
by reefermadness3 on Nov 27, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Before week 11 Denver Offense has already had more 3 and outs than they did all of 2008.
2008 Denver Defense gave up 30 points or more 9 times last year in 16 games.
2009 Denver Defense has given up 30 points or more 2 times in 11 games this year.
2008 Denver Defense gave up 20 points or more 12 times last year in 16 games.
2009 Denver defense has given up 20 points or more in 5 games this year.
2008 Denver Defense held the opposing Offense to 10 points or less ZERO TIMES
2009 Denver has held the opposing team to 10 points or less 5 times in 11 games this year
Denver current defense needs to give up 50 points the rest of the season to match 2008.
Denver 2009 defense has 8 new starters.
Denver 2008 defense did not havve Brian Dawkins.
Denver 2009 defense has Brian Dawkins who lead the team in tackles.
Denver 2008 defense had a Champ Bailey on the IR for a huge chunk of the year.
Denver 2009 defense has healthy Champ Bailey
Denver 2008 defense had Dumervil with 17 tackles and 5 sacks through 16 games.
Denver 2009 defense has Dumervil with 31 tackles and 14 sacks through 11 Games.
Denver 2008 defense was a 3-4 and the DC was not Nolan.
Denver 2009 defense is a 3-4 scheme being run by some guy named Nolan
Denver 2009 offense coming into week 11 was more than a minute behind the Bears 2009 offense in time of possession.
Denver 2009 offense needs to score 30+ points a game the rest of the year to match the 2008 Denver offense.
In 2008 Brandon Marshall had 104 receptions for 1265 yds
In 2009 Brandon Marshall has 58 receptions for 714 yds in 10 games
In 2008 Eddie Royal had 91 receptions for 980 yds
In 2009 Eddie Royal has 31 receptions for 282 yds in 10 games
In 2008 Stokley had 49 receptions for 528 yds
In 2009 Stokley has 12 receptions for 217 yds in 10 games
In 2008 Scheffler had 40 receptions for 645 yds
In 2009 Scheffler has 27 receptions for 323 yds in 10 games
In 2009 the Bears have a better % on 3rd and 4th down than the Bronco’s do.
Bears have converted 53 out of 172 attempts on 3rd down while the Bronco’s after 11 games have completed just 52 out of 200 attempts on 3rd down. Maybe this is part of the reason the Bears defense has spent less time on the field coming into week 11 than the Bronco’s defense has. Yet too many of you Kyle Orton is the game manager ???
The Bears through 10 games have 68 penalties for 573 yds
Denver through 11 games has 63 penalties for 499 yds
2008 Bears had 22 INT for 312 yds
2009 Bears have 10 INT for 100 yds through 10 games
2008 Bronco’s had 6 INT for 63 yds
2009 Broncos have 8 INT for 86 yds through 10 games.
2008 Bears ran for 1673 yds and 15 TD
2008 Bears have run for 893 yds and 5 TD through 10 games
In 2008 Forte had 1238 yds rushing with a 3.9 AVG and 1 Fumble.
In 2009 Forte has 516 yds rushing with a 3.3 AVG and 3 Fumbles in 10games
In 2008 Forte had 477 yds receiving with a 7.6 AVG with a long pass of 19 yds.
In 2009 Forte has 399 yds receiving with a 9.5 AVG with a long pass of 37 yds in 10 games
In 2008 Earl Bennett had a grand total of ZERO completions and ZERO yards Receiving.
In 2009 Earl Bennett has a total of 40 receptions for 511 yds in 10 games
In 2008 Hester had 51 completions for 665 yds
In 2009 Hester has 52 completions for 614 yds in 10 games
In 2008 the Bears defense scored almost 60 points and had 22 Interceptions.
In 2009 the Bears defense has scored 16 points and has 10 Interceptions in 10 games.
In 2008 the Bears had some Urlacher guy healthy.
In 2009 the same Urlacher guy was injured in the beginning of the first game of the year and hasn’t played since.
In 2009 3/5 of the Bears offensive line has been replaced and anyone saying that last year Oline was just as bad, needs to get new glasses.
Moral of the story, blaming Cutler for the 2007-2008 Denver Defense being bottom couple in the league is just mind boggling to anyone who knows football.
Giving Orton credit for the 2009 Bronco’s defense being one of the top teams in football is probably even more of a stretch.
Quick hint the Broncos defense is better because its not even remotely close to the same defense from last year. New Defensive coach, new defensive scheme and 8 new starters.
Anyone who thinks that Denver couldn’t be at least 7-4 with Cutler as QB is crazy.
I watched all of Denver games last year and Cutler is not the reason that team only won 8 games. He threw 18 INT but also threw for 25 TD and threw for 4526 yds with a much less experienced WR unit albeit a very good unit.
Also anyone thinking that Orton if he survived being on the IR this far into the season would have the Bears better than 4-6, I would remind you that last year this team started off 4-6 and it surely didnt wind up winning 5 of the last 6 games due to his 8 TD—8 INT and 177 yard passing AVG over the last 6 games.
by 34hadclass on Nov 28, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Denver current defense needs to give up 50 points the rest of the season to match 2008.
Thats 50 pts a game.
by 34hadclass on Nov 28, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Denver 2008 defense was a 3-4 and the DC was not Nolan.
Its 4-3 defense…sucks you cant edit these posts..guess I will need to use the preview next time
by 34hadclass on Nov 28, 2009 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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