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Around SBN: Raiders' GM Begins The Purge

The Problem with Jay Cutler - Part Two

 

The QB as Team Leader.  (Not just leader of the offense).

The head coach leads everybody (players, coaches, trainers, etc) with his vision for the team and with his ability to prepare his players and coaches to achieve that vision.

The QB leads the offense and by extension the defense and the special teams. He’s the only player with his hands on ball virtually every play. All players have to have the necessary confidence that he can lead the team to victory for the team to succeed.  The Pittsburgh Steelers had the number one defense in the NFL last season.  James Harrison of the defense made one of the great plays in Super Bowl history with his 100 yard interception return for a TD at the end of the first half.

But their great defense failed to stop Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald and the Cardinals at the end of the game. They were 2:37 away froma a stunning upset.  At that point, all eyes (including those of the Steelers) were on QB Ben Roethlisberger.  Will he or won't he.  And of course, he did.

The object of the game is to score more points than the other team.  I don't care how great your defense is or isn't . . . you have to score to win.  That's why the QB is the leader of the team (or at least should be/better be).

Great teams almost always have great leadership at the QB position. Whether it’s the quiet leadership of a Joe Montana (Joe never said two words. His teammates knew, however, that he would usually make the plays necessary to move the chains) or the much more vocal leadership of a guy like Dan Marino (who had no problem cussing out any of his teammates in the huddle, on the sideline or anywhere else).

Quiet. Or Vocal. Or a combination of both.

Chad Pennington’s  65.61 completion percentage is the highest in NFL history among QB’s who have thrown at least 1,500 passes (Kurt Warner and Steve Young are next in line).

Pennington is almost universally respected in the NFL. Usually quiet and unassuming. But he is a leader.

Herm Edwards: “He always prepared himself to be the guy. And once he was the guy, he took the burden of the team and put it on his shoulders.”

After their 1-15 season in 2007 the Dolphins signed Pennington in 2008 after he was cut loose by the Jets.

(From Dennis Dillon of the Sporting News):  Miami started out 0-2 in 2008. In the first practice before their third game things turned ugly. That’s when the Dolphins saw a different side of Pennington, who chastised the players using language that would have made his mother blush. “I guess he felt us sliding back to the losing culture we had the previous year,” said WR Greg Camarillo “and he wasn’t going to allow it.”

“Weak-Armed” Chad Pennington helped lead the 1-15 Dolphins to an 11-5 record last season.

I don’t know what kind of leader Jay Cutler is or isn’t. Few do. The only ones who do know are the ones that have been a part of the teams he has played on. Not any of us on the outside looking in.

All I know is that unless, at some time, he puts the ‘Team on his Shoulders’ (like Herm Edwards says) and unless he’s willing to get in guys faces as to “Not allow them to slide into a losing culture” (as Greg Camarillo said) then the Bears aren’t going anywhere. They’ll just have a really strong armed QB guiding them into mediocrity.

Jay has stated that he grew up a Bears fan. Perhaps he can revisit Bear history. Say what you will about Jim McMahon. He set more NCAA passing records than any other QB in college football history. He authored one of the greatest college comebacks (the 1980 Holiday Bowl - #4 on ESPN‘s list of Greatest Bowl Games ) when BYU was down 45-25 with less than four minutes remaining against SMU. The highlight of that comeback was when McMahon defied head coach LaVell Edwards by refusing to take his offense of the field to punt the ball away on 4th and two late in the 4th quarter. McMahon went to the sideline and screamed at Edwards not to give up.  That this was Bull S++T, according to McMahon. Edwards relented and McMahon and his offense gained the first down and kept alive the drive and eventually pulled out the stunning upset.  (Edwards:  The guy (McMahon) was upset to no end and so I said "OK, go back in we're going for it").

LaVell Edwards is no slouch.  He's a HOF college head coach.

Jim McMahon arrived at Halas Hall after being drafted with a beer in one hand and a cocky, arrogant attitude in the other. And then promptly backed it up. He hung out with the offensive line and they loved him for it (MIke Ditka:  "Those guys would've done anything for Jim"). He played the game (again quoting Mike Ditka) with “reckless abandon.” His teammates couldn’t help but respect that. He went ’toe to toe’ with Mike Ditka when need be. Who on Earth yells at “Iron Mike?” Jim McMahon did. Usually it happened (according to RT Keith Van Horne) after Ditka would send in a play and McMahon would say: “F==K that, we’re not going to run that. We’re going to run this.” And McMahon’s play would work.

Jim McMahon: “He wanted to be in charge of everything and it times it wasn’t the right way I felt.”

Did McMahon do that to be disrespectful? Not at all.  He just wanted to win. (Mike Ditka, from his book 'In Life, First You Kick Ass'):  "McMahon, I think what you have to understand about him -whether you love him or hate him-is that he is one of the most competitive people on the planet."

Leadership. It’s a beautiful thing. He defied his college coach when he wanted to punt the ball away and essentially surrender the game. That act of defiance led to one of the greatest Bowl games ever. He often defied his head coach in Chicago cause he knew more about the offense that Iron Mike did.

Which then leads to quotes like this:

Mike Ditka

"I don’t care how great Walter Payton was. I don’t care how good our defense was.
We don’t win the Super Bowl without McMahon. Period!” (ESPN SportsCentury).

And I don’t care how much talent a QB does or does not have.  How strong his arm is or isn't. Without the ability to execute; to lead and inspire and motivate his troops, his team probably isn’t going very far.

 

 

 



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We are 30th in red zone defense.

That is a fact. The anti-Jay sentiment is speculative emotional masturbation. Dude is one of the most talented QBs in the league. The problem is the Bears, not Jay Cutler.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 9:41 AM CST reply actions  

and reflecting on last week

the big joke is that even if Cutler had thrown perfect passes on the 3 plays to olsen, hester and knox they would have dropped the passes anyway.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

good response to ax's newest rant

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Nov 29, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree No It All

The Broncos had two horrible defenses when Jay was there. 28th & 30th.
The Bears aren’t a whole lot better this season.

This post wasn’t anti-Jay, per say.

I clearly (in bold letters) said that:

I don’t know what kind of leader Jay Cutler is or isn’t. Few do. The only ones who do know are the ones that have been a part of the teams he has played on. Not any of us on the outside looking in.

All I was saying is that all the physical skill in the world at the QB position isn’t enough without the ability to lead the team.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

how is it not Anti-Jay?

when your writing a series titled “The Problem with Jay Cutler”?

by GtM on Nov 29, 2009 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I clearly said

that I don’t know what kind of leader Jay is. Why is that confusing for you?

I didn’t say he wasn’t a good/excellent/great leader.

All I was saying is that if he’s not, the Bears probably aren’t going to do very much with him under center.

QB’s who have all the physical talent in the world and who have no leadership skills (like a Jeff George) usually are not held in high regard in NFL circles.

The ‘problem’ with Jay Cutler is this: If he doesn’t understand that he needs to put his team on his shoulders . . . then he doesn’t understand what’s needed from him for the team to succeed.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

why

do you think he throws picks instead of throwing it away and taking the FG in the redzone? I think thats the biggest indicator of whether he has the team on his shoulders or not. If he didn’t think that he had to do it all. he would be taking better care of the ball, throwing it away and taking the FG. I dunno.. like you said that you said you don’t know. I only see reasons that he has put the team on the shoulder, so i guess i don’t understand why you post this one.. its on me,, ill leave ya to it

by GtM on Nov 29, 2009 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Look I'll clear this up for you

That first quarter, red zone pick in SF has been called by many in the media as one of the worst they have ever seen.

I agree. They were playing the SF 49ers. The 49ers are an above average defense with a below average offense. They scored a whole ten points (after taking the ball away five times) on an average (at best) Bears defense.

In a game like that, against a struggling offense like the 49ers have, THREE points is a lot of points.

Take the easy three Jay. It’s simple (and smart0.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Take it easy?

Say What?

Who said anything about ‘taking it easy?’

Not me. Playing it SMART? Now that’s a different story.

Big, big difference between the two there.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Putting the team on your shoulders

doesn’t mean making stupid throws cause you think you need to score TD’s all the time.

It’s means knowing when to take a sack or throw the ball away (and still perhaps get your FG) rather thn trying to make a play everytime.

Sometimes it’s better to punt the ball away rather than force something that isn’t there.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

having acknowledged that you don't know what kind of leader Jay is...

you continue to say what kind of leader Jay is and should be. That is logically inconsistent.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Where did I say what kind of leader Jay is?

I NEVER said that. That’s you putting words in my mouth.

I did give some examples of the type of leader I think he should be.
That’s my perogative. It’s America. I have the right to my opinion.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually that right is neither enumerated or implied.

“All I know is that unless, at some time, he puts the ‘Team on his Shoulders’ (like Herm Edwards says) and unless he’s willing to get in guys faces as to "Not allow them to slide into a losing culture" (as Greg Camarillo said) then the Bears aren’t going anywhere.”
   
sure, but as you yourself acknowledge you just don’t know if he is or is not already doing those thins.

“And I don’t care how much talent a QB does or does not have. How strong his arm is or isn’t. Without the ability to execute; to lead and inspire and motivate his troops, his team probably isn’t going very far.”

translation: in your admittedly ignorant opinion you don’t think Cutler has the ability to lead and inspire and motivate his troops, and that the Bears aren’t going very far.

I’m not trying to bash you or deprive you of your imaginary right to your opinion just don’t try to tell me something is something that is obviously is not.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Right No It All

When you say:

sure, but as you yourself acknowledge you just don’t know if he is or is not already doing those thins.

EXACTLY. I don’t know. Why do I have to keep saying this? I’ve said it over and over.

My guess is, however, that he’s coming up a little short in this department. That would be my best guess. Since I don’t know, I acknowledge I could be wrong. Again (for the hard of hearing) since I don’t know, I acknowledge I could be wrong.

"

And I don’t care how much talent a QB does or does not have. How strong his arm is or isn’t. Without the ability to execute; to lead and inspire and motivate his troops, his team probably isn’t going very far."

translation: in your admittedly ignorant opinion you don’t think Cutler has the ability to lead and inspire and motivate his troops, and that the Bears aren’t going very far.

Never said or even implied that Cutler doesn’t have the ability to lead and inspire. Never said or implied that at all. His body language, however, oftens speaks differently than that to me.

I just stated a fact. All the physical talent in the world doesn’t get you very far at the QB position.

Jeff George had more physical talent in one finger than a guy like Chad Pennington had in his entire body. Check out the differing careers of those two.

I really don’t mind you arguing with me and calling me names. However, it’s clear that you simply fail to understand what was said in this post.

Congratulations!

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you Axthelm.

It’s does take more than physical skills to be a successful QB. But leadership doesn’t just happen, it is earned and it has to come from a grown respect from those who would be led. He has done the right thing when he came in by shutting his mouth and just going to work everyday. The offense had an established leader in Olin. Can you imagine if Jay, all of 26 years old, came in and immediately started trying to be the leader? There would be locker room chaos. The point is, it takes time to gain respect and be a leader. We will see which type Jay turns out to be. Good post, these are important questions to ask about the most talented and invested-in player in our offense.

by ChiLobo#23 on Nov 29, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

The TRUE leader of the Bears team

is Olin Kreutz period. Everyone knows this. Problem is Kreutz is lacking in his playing ability (as well as the rest of the O-line) We need a new center that can snap off a shotgun formation with the ball arriving above Jay’s waist. You run shotgun so that your QB can see the field the entire time, too many times Jay has to look at his feet to get the snap only to look up and have a defender bearing down on him. New center = opporotunity for Jay to assume the now vacant leadership role. There is no way he is going to take that from Olin.
Current coaching staff has to lead by example. Coaches have to inspire the team to play above and beyond their cumulative talents and come together as a team. EPIC FAIL so far. I don’t believe that Lovie and Co. can fire this teams engine anymore. We need leaders in the FO and coaching staff. Problem is that the owners make hiring decisions based on financial numbers. Lovie = cheap if you factor in his original contract with his extension he is bottom dollar. Bringing in a top level HC would = lots of money that they will not spend. Winning does not mean more money to be made, just more money spent.
Personally I want Marty Shottenheimer as GM and Shannahan as HC. Cowher (who I really really want) is going to end up in NC after they fire John Fox.
Leaders inspire others to step up and follow suit. We have soft spoken Lovie who just pussy foots around the issues and gives his standard speeches… ______ is our guy, and we will stick with ______. How about calling someone out and pissing them off so that they will step up and perform? Where’s the fire from ’05? What happened to the never say die attitude from the Monday Night Miracle?
BTW we did have an ’85 Bears player that did understand this and did light a fire under the asses of the team, and Lovie ran him out of town as fast as he could to promote his buddy Bob Babich. Ron Rivera is blatantly sorely missed.
Sorry for the rant.

by Berserker333 on Nov 29, 2009 10:14 AM CST reply actions  

I would like Cowher too.

Of all the big names i think he would fit the bill the most. I still remember how the steelers were dominant in the 90’s.

by Jhitt81 on Nov 29, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

If the true leader of the team

is your center, you’re F++KED.

Nothing wrong with your center (or anyone else) being a leader on the team.

But if your QB isn’t . . . you got problems.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Good write up

I don’t know if Cutler does have the intangibles, but his team mates seemed to have confidence in him – at least early on in training camp. It seems like Jay’s the type of guy who needs a mentor. Maybe McMahon would make a good QB coach, if he’s interested in getting back into the game – with his old team.

"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon

by JimmyMack on Nov 29, 2009 12:00 PM CST reply actions  

Right JimmyMack

Like I said, I don’t know about his leadership skills and I agree with you. His teammates seem to have confidence in him. I wasn’t saying anything negative about Jay.

I would, personally, like to see some of your namesakes leadership skills in Jay’s game.

That’s why when some people question Cutler’s answers to the media I just laugh. Who cares? Personallly I don’t care if he hates the media, kids and puppy dogs.

All I care about is, going forward (not this wasted season) can he eventually put the team on his shoulders and carry them to a Super Bowl victory.

Your namesake did just that.

His teammates and coaches (whether they liked him or not) did just that. They knew he’d make the plays necessary to win when needed.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I wanna stop hearing crap on cutler..

I’f you dont have good coaches and the rite players around u… No team is good its a team effort..we need to stop brining in coaches we think might be good and bring guys that are good.Cutler had a good line and recievers in denver he dosent have it here bottom line.Tuner is calling plays for 2 yrd passes recievers running wrong routs and not coming back to the ball.Hesters not a starting reciever hes too dumb to run routs.Play the other guys keep him at kickoff returner.

by tazz34 on Nov 29, 2009 1:55 PM CST reply actions  

I like Cutler

I really do. But he had an excellent O-Line in Denver. An excellent WR in Brandon Marshall and one of the best offensive minds in the game (Mike Shanahan).

He also had the second most INT’s in the league last season and the most Red-Zone INT’s also.

There’s room for improvement with Jay. He can’t blame everyting on his O-Line, his receivers and his coaches.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

But he was not any better in Denver with good coaches...

He played well against cellar dwelling teams and was HORRENDOUS against good to great teams.
The problem you have is that he is now in a better division than the AFC West, and you are seeing the results. He is in the perfect situation in Chicago…..the coaches, players and as evident by the comments, the fans dont hold him accountable at all.
The same was true at Vandy where he did what he wanted……he was the only star and all his faults were glossed over as failure of a bad team, and never as clear faults in mechanics and decision making.
He came in with Denver being 7-4 for Jake Plummer who was the most winningest QB in Denver history and choked away the chances at the play offs. It was once again explained away as being a rookie. Same in 2007, and then in 2008 he choked down the straight as well.
I have many Bears fans that were so stoked when they got Cutler, and I said then “Just beware fans…hes going to break your heart.” Now, they are saying they wish they would have believed what Denver fans were saying.
I am just imploring you guys to not buy into this Jay Cutler BS.
I like the Bears, I like their fans….I have never had anything but good interactions with guys like Smudgers, Traboffa and many others and I am not hating.
I really am bummed that you have an idiot like Angelo that mortaged your whole franchise on a guy that has proved to be nothing but a guy with a big arm, who masquerades as a JUGS interception machine and who rarely admits to his own faults.
Research the kid guys….look at his history and you will understand more what you have.
Good luck with it…..the Bears and their fans deserve more than what you have, and the blame lies out the feet of Jerry Angelo who must have been studying form the Matt Millen book of how to run a team.
Peace.

Those that cant coach, compete!
Failing to plan is planning to fail.
All I want is 53 Rod Smiths. Is that asking too much????
"Peyton Hillis didn’t rip the sleeves off his jersey, they flew off out of fear."
Calijoefornia.

by boydy2669 on Nov 29, 2009 8:39 PM CST up reply actions  

of note

“I don’t care how great your defense is or isn’t . . . you have to score to win. That’s why the QB is the leader of the team (or at least should be/better be).”

My belief is that you cannot win without a good defense.
Defensive units score also, if they are doing their job.
Thinking of the Baltimore Ravens when they won a SB with a dominant defense and a QB who was essentially a journeyman.
There are many paths to paydirt, grasshopper.

"I am not an animal!" - Merrick

by Maelvampyre on Nov 29, 2009 1:58 PM CST reply actions  

I agree.

The teams with the best defenses usually have the best records.

That said, most of those teams ALSO have excellent QB’s/Offenses.

Most. Not all. But most.

The Ravens of 2000 were an anomaly:

Noun
S: (n) anomaly, anomalousness (deviation from the normal or common order or form or rule)

In essence, they were the exception to the rule.

You can argue this all day long. Unless a team has a dominating defense (and most don’t come close), you better be able to move the ball and score if you want to win.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

There are many paths.

However, there is one consistent, well-travelled path to the dirt. Offense.

If you’re ever able to count on a defense for consistent points, and we are not playing fantasy football here, get back to me. I’d love to see our defense score two touchdowns per week.

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 2:06 PM CST up reply actions  

30th in red zone defense!!!!

doesn’t matter how good your offense is or what path you are on when your team is ranked 30th in red zone defense.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes it does matter No It All

For the record, the Bears are 18th in overall defense. 5th in Passing defense and 22nd in Rushing defense.

Nobody is saying that the Bears should be 10-0 with Cutler. However, he has to take SOME responsibility for his play.

You can’t lay the blame for Cutler’s mistakes at the feet of the defense.
What does his defense have to do with his league leadering interceptions?

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

cereally??

if a team is unable to prevent the other team from scoring, then the only chance for them to win is to score more points. If a team cannot prevent the other team from scoring and the only way this team can score points is Jay Cutler throwing, then Jay Cutler is going to throw interceptions.

30th in red zone D = Jay must take more chances = league leading interceptions

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You can harp "30th in Red Zone Defense" all you want, and seriously, can you find that source for me (can't find)?

But in all seriousness, you just said it all yourself.

“if a team is unable to prevent the other team from scoring, then the only chance for them to win is to score more points.”

The game very much hinges on the offense scoring more points than the other offense – Defensive and special teams TDs are very much outliers that you can’t rely on.

How about… The Bears defense has, regardless of Red Zone or not, allowed 27 TDs. 21st in the league. Still bottom half.

The Bears offense has, regardless of Red Zone or not, scored 21 TDs. 21st in the league. Still bottom half.

(Stats NFL.com)

Just the fact the Bears give up more than they score means Jay has more work to do.

No one’s arguing that you don’t need defense in the game – regardless of where they are on the field. But if possible… I’d like to see the numbers for Jay’s first-half interceptions, what he’s doing with the ball when it isn’t late/desperation/chance-taking time in the game.

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

as i said the problem stems from not being able to stop other teams from scoring

30th in red zone defense came from vaughn mcclure’s article “Chicago Bears defense wants its play to prove Bernard Berrian wrong”. Thats all i know about the stat, i did not verify it, but as you can tell i love it and plan on screaming it from the roof tops for anyone who will listen

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

All it means is you can't stop them when your back is to the wall.

It’s bad, yes. So what? We have a hard time stopping other offenses no matter where they are! How about some other things, like opponent third down conversion rate against us? Length of drives against us? How about all the other touchdowns against us? DeSean Jackson’s sure wasn’t in the Red Zone. The defense gives up points, period. I like my stats better; all yours means is that we can’t stop them within 20 yards. Bad defense, period, makes the offense work harder.

For your Red Zone defense, what’s OUR Red Zone offense, which they kept making a deal out of last Sunday? I don’t think it’s good either.

And I still want to find something that tells me how many of Jay’s interceptions are first half… I don’t think it’s all in crunch-time, chance-taking spots.

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

we give up touchdowns in the red zone

while the opposing D keeps us to field goals if we are lucky. Both are very bad omens. Our offense not being able to score is nothing new though, so i simply can’t get riled up against jay Jay Cutler. But the D… man the D is much worse than it has been and should be. While the offense is taking more time to gel than hoped for, the Defense is coming apart at the seams.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

...

We give up touchdowns and points no matter where we are on the field. NOT JUST the Red Zone.

I don’t give a crap about the Red Zone Defense stat, to be honest. Seriously, all that it means is that within 20 yards of the end zone you execute or don’t. You know what worries me more? When a fast receiver like DeSean Jackson burns your single-coverage CB and there’s no safety help over the top. When you can’t get off the freaking field on 3rd and 12. When you allow RB tandems to run over you effectively. So no, I don’t care that we give up points around the Red Zone, rather give them up there than let teams get away with those types of things.

I’m not getting riled against Jay… yet. But if I find that stat, we’ll see.

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah but...

we are 30th in red zone defense!!!

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

No It All

Seriously dude. You’re embarassing yourself here.

You apparently only see ‘half the picture.’

The Bears might be 30th in Red Zone Defense.
Jay Cutler is #1 in Red Zone INT’s the past two seasons.

That’s a deadly combination.
Tell the whole story. Not just half.

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

you are seriously

it is sad because I hate troy aikman, but he is basically arguing my side pretty effectively right now. Lovie: “Turnovers are killing us.” Troy: “when your defense gives up more than 300 yards in the first half there is more wrong with your club than turnovers on the offensive side.”

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Umm, no
30th in red zone D = Jay must take more chances = league leading interceptions

You completely miss them point (what a SHOCK)!

Te Bears are 18th in scoring defense NO IT ALL!

18th! That’s just a little bit less than average (average would be 16th)!

Ge it? Rougly they give up an AVERAGE number of points every Sunday.

That does NOT entitle jay Cutler to make STUPID Red Zone INTS!

You really just don’t get it. Do you?

by axthelm on Nov 29, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

18th in scoring is simply a total of points allowed by the D, if you can't see thr problems wit hthat I cant help you.

for the sake of argument though even if that was a relevant stat and our d is 18ish , Considering our offense 18 is not nearly good enough.

Eliminating Jay’s Red zone picks would not automatically mean we get a touchdown for every pick he threw nor would it take opposing teams points off the board. So had he not thrown the picks maybe we kick a field goal, maybe we turn it over on downs, maybe we punt, regardless the story and our record would be the same. The only hope this team has had for victory was Jay Cutler taking chances. Had it worked maybe we might have won, but the fact that it did not work does not mean we lost the game because of those interceptions because frankly we would not have won anyway.

by No It All on Nov 29, 2009 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Either way

They could be points, you never know – but any plus is better than a minus. And a pick not thrown is another chance given. Another chance is a definite plus, as opposed to the ball automatically in the other team’s hands at that spot. Even a punt is better, it’s deeper than an INT.

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Did I assume? No.

Plusses aren’t limited to points; there’s field position, the extra chance to convert another down, the extra chance at points…

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, you need to stop them from scoring, I get that.

But then there’s something else called… Hmm… We ourselves need to score?

I’m talking about getting points, not about the half responsible for stopping them.

by Steven Schweickert on Nov 29, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I am going to start a fan post called,

The problem with Lovie and Ron Turner because that is where the problem lies. Cutler is just an extension of these horrible coaches right now. Lets hope they dont ruin his career!!!

Watch me pull a hat outta this rabbit.

by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Nov 29, 2009 8:07 PM CST reply actions  

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