I Challenge the Bears to take away Lovie's red flag. Please.
by Kev H on Dec 14, 2009 7:00 PM CST
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I'm really starting to dread heading to my local watering hole on Sundays. Not because of the big group of Vikings fans who show up--they're actually pretty decent people. Not really because of the big group of Steelers fans who often show up. (Even though they're sorta a-holes.)
No, it's because of the frustratingly inconsistent product I'm seeing Chicago put out week after week. While I saw some flashes of true awesomeness Sunday (*cough* Cutler to D.A. *cough*), it's hard to explain to my pals who aren't Bears fans why they seem so consistently mismanaged. This game was a shining example, especially when it comes to in-game decisions. The most ridiculous of which involves a red bean bag, and has been discussed to death. But let's look at a little bit of Smith's history with that thin red cloth...
I'm not an expert on all of the rules for replay, especially those establishing a catch. As my good friend Cubman987 from these very comments and I have discussed many times--there seems to be little consistency in what is called a catch in the NFL. I've seen guys catch a ball, turn around, take two steps, dance a little jig, then drop the ball, and it was ruled incomplete. Other times I've watched a guy bobble a ball through the air, barely touching it as he hits the ground, and it's a complete pass. So I realize, there's a lot of personal interpretation going on during these situations.
This being said, I'm not really sure Lovie Smith actually understands how replay works.
Let's take a look at a few stats for Smith and the challenge flag. I'm pulling these stats from a couple of sources, given that I can't seem to find one perfect source for finding challenge info. If there is an error, I apologize profusely in advance.
2009-- 2 plays overturned, 7 plays upheld. Percentage: 22.2%
2008-- 4 plays overturned, 6 plays upheld. Percentage: 40%
Career as head coach-- 17 plays overturned, 35 plays upheld. Percentage: 32.7%
HE GOT WORSE!
Let's consider that number. If you're in school, and you get a 32.7% on a test, that's considered a pretty solid fail. If you're at work, and you do one of the tasks at your job incorrectly 2 out of every 3 times, your boss isn't going to let you keep doing that job. Yet Lovie Smith gets to continue doing just that.
I know, a little bit of this is going to seem like pure venting, and that's understandable. I realize that Smith isn't the only one who has a say-so in these decisions. There are people upstairs that are supposed to be supporting these calls. However, you can't justify a lot of these to me.
The choice that will end up haunting Smith, and quite possibly costing him his job, is that choice to challenge a play that really shouldn't have been challenged. Especially given this particular situation. It's really beginning to show a disconnect between the staff and the game of football.
The team has effectively admitted that they didn't know what they were doing. Says Cutler:
"You can’t second-guess that," Cutler said. "[Coaches] are probably trying to see the TV replay, and I’m trying to get the play. I look up and there’s 10 seconds on third down, so I’m going to burn one. Lovie’s not in my headset talking to me saying, ‘Hey, hold on a second.’ You can’t blame him for that."
Yes. Yes you can.
This is saying that in a drive late in the game, the coaching staff wasn't continually preparing plays for situations that could happen, realizing that time management and field position were crucial. Then you burned a timeout. Then you used the extra time that the timeout allowed to further analyze a play that shouldn't have been challenged, and then decide to go ahead and challenge it anyways, effectively preventing any further ability to manage the clock. Then, when you lost the challenge, you still had not drawn up an effective play to get the yards for the first down.
The cracks are glaringly obvious in this team's foundation, and they're crumbling the team away. Let's hope a true engineer makes it here soon.
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Your sir are now wrecked!!!!!!!!!!
One of the best posts I’ve read all season. At the title alone, LMFAO!
When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!!!
Lovie pisses me off
The part that got me was that Lovie refused to admit that he completely bungled the situation.
In the press conference, he said that decision didn’t affect the outcome of the game, and then he tried to blame Ron Turner for the time out. I guess Ron didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to be the fall guy; he told a journalist that he had already sent out a call before the TO.
Besides the fact that the play shouldn’t have been challenged in the first play, why didn’t anyone tell Jay that the play was probably going to be challenged and let him run the clock down more before calling the TO? Why did it take so long anyway? Home team gets first look and the replay angle was really good.
Also, it’s a BS excuse to say that the timeout didn’t matter. It probably would have, if the Bears didn’t commit so many penalties.
did he say that for real?
That timeout was Huge because on the Bears last drive after the 2 minutes warning, Cutler got sacked and the next play threw the ball over the middle and the last play was a 4th down play that the clock didn’t stop once.
So the timeout didnt affect the outcome of the game? Is this dumbass Serious?!!!
by Chitownproduct on Dec 15, 2009 3:02 AM CST up reply actions
Take it away and his job being taken away may also help
Another thing, you should be able to challenge penalties too
what is the average percentage of overturned plays?
I mean, in baseball getting a hit 30% of the time is good. So waht is the good percentage for this?
bird law in this country is not ruled by reason
the league average is something like 40%, so Lovie isn't that much worse.
by Rhymenoceros on Dec 14, 2009 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
sox's point is still relevant. Is a baseball player a failure for only hitting a ball in play 30% of the time (.300 BA)?
no. You have to look at the big picture. You cant expect 100% if it isn’t possible/plausible
by Rhymenoceros on Dec 14, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
percentage overturned isn't the issue
I think the real issue here is how and when Smith uses the red flag – meaning the situation in which he challenges, as what happened in this game. We are all aware of what stupid is when we see it, even if we aren’t pro coaches.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
by Maelvampyre on Dec 14, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
no argument from me on that one
Lovie seems to always use the flag at the innappropriate time, but the statistics in this article doesn’t prove the point. Looking at individual cases of him making mistakes is a lot better than a sample size of two years and calling it trend. The numbers have small sample size written all over it and knowing where other coaches are in relation to Lovie make it easier to judge the numbers.
That being said, I’m all for Lovie being gone at the end of this season.
bird law in this country is not ruled by reason
by soxshenanigans on Dec 15, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
there are no place for facts in this withchunt
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Dec 14, 2009 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
witchhunt
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
Hey fellers. How ’bout tankin this Sunday and helping my on again/off again Ravens into a WC spot?
We have been a hard luck case this year with at least 3 4th quarter red zome disasters. I feel your pain with clock management and reviews. We have screwed a bunch of those up BUT have been getting better. It makes one wonder who the hell looks at the play in the booth for our teams. Most of us can tell the right call upon first review at home within 10 seconds. I think we give coaches too much credit for having common sense.
Well, Bruce will be over later this week to start a pre-game question answer. I am just here early to beg a little for gimme game. I see that Hester is hurt. That’s a plus. Anyone else limping around or giving up? Do you expect your team to put up a fight for 4 quarters or play 1-2 and then mail it in. Any youngsters getting junk time this week?
My feeling is that your still the Bears and stillplay with pride and, ufortunately, will put up a heck of a battle. We need to run our asses off Sunday. Ray Rice is a gift from Heaven. He alone can keep us above .500 for the mext 5-6 years. Take it easy.
I don't think
you’ll have to worry about the Bears tanking it vs. your Ravens. They’ll lose the game without any help from Vegas or anyone else.
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
I wouldn't count on any youngsters
Lovie’s going all Herm “You play to win the game!” Edwards on us. Except neither of them can actually win a game.
I hope the Ravens win out. Maybe take a wildcard spot from Denver. Those asses have been annoying.
No way we beat the Ravens Sunday
Unless Joe Flacco throws 5 int, Ray Rice fumbles 4 times, and the Ravens D gives up 500 yards total offense. Then maybe it will be close in the 4th Q.
by Chitownproduct on Dec 15, 2009 3:06 AM CST up reply actions
That was a good challenge. Most of Lovie’s challenges have been obvious wastes. However, USE THE F***ING CHALLENGE BEFORE THE F***ING TIMEOUT!!!! If you lose the challenge, it’s the same effect as a regular timeout. Even the announcers were making fun of that. I don’t buy the miscommunication between Cutler and Turner and Lovie and whoever other tard involved. Actually, considering the situation, unless you were100% that the call was going to be overturned, maybe just let it go there. Regardless, I thrilled with the loss and hope they lose out. Fire all of them. Turner shouldn’t ever be allowed to even watch a football game again. Lovie can take his “cool” demeanor back to a francise like the Rams, and Angelo needs to go as well.
To the Ravens fan
I’m all the for the inenivitable Bears tank job. Wins at this point can do nothing but hurt the fans’ cause. If Lovie has to hang around for another year for contractual reasons, whatever…just as long as the rest of those idiots get fired ASAP. I mean, enough was enough over a month ago for most of them and several years ago for Turner. I hope Santa Claus crashes his sleigh into his f***ing head.
I'd give Lovie an extension
Let’s extend Lovie until 2020. he is the greatest NFL coach of all time. Jim McCaskey
Pretty Good Read..
I can only imagine what was going through Lovie’s head when he challenged the play.
I have a general idea.
“alright alright alright. we’ll get this overturned here, and then we’ll go ahead and beat the packers and I’ll be able to keep this cush job for one more season. Heck, this team doesn’t even care if I win or not.”
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
I'm just waiting....
for him to throw a challenge flag, lose the challenge, and then throw the flag again to challenge that he ever threw the first flag…..if they don’t get him throwing the flag on camera he might win by default!
I believe this is actually a word for word quote from me:
“I’ve seen guys catch a ball, turn around, take two steps, dance a little jig, then drop the ball, and it was ruled incomplete. Other times I’ve watched a guy bobble a ball through the air, barely touching it as he hits the ground, and it’s a complete pass”
Give it up
Maybe Pittsburgh should get rid of Mike Tomlin as well. Look at Bill Belichick in Cleveland, he was a nobody the whole time he was there. Everyone knows him now, with the PATRIOTS. It starts with the owners, plain and simple and the stupid arguments about it being the head coach just pisses me off. The owners won’t let Lovie or any other coach they have had spend the money. Even the 1985 Bears had a backup qb playing the whole season. Lovie has wanted numerous good players, I guarantee it. Look at Darren Sharper, breakout season as free safety, what has Bullochs done? Nothing! They passed on Sharper because they knew he commanded more money and these owners refuse to spend money on decent talent. That’s the reason Rivera left after the Super Bowl, not because Lovie didn’t like his defensive schemes. Jones left because the owners didn’t want to spend money on a good player. Chris Williams came in because Clady, Long and Otah were too good and would cost too much. Why do you think they trade down every year? Why do you think they pick lousy free agents. Lovie is trying to make something good out of something horrible. The overall talent of the players on this team is abysmal. I think Forte and Bell could be a really good running combo with a good offensive line in place. Similar to the running game in Tennessee or the Giants when they had Earth Wind and Fire in place. Cowher did well because he could pick his team and coordinators, same with Belichick, Dungy, etc. Their owners were good owners that allowed their coaches to make the right decisions in order for their team to win. These owners are cheap and until they are out of town I don’t care if God himself comes here to coach, they will never be decent.
Seriously?
Mate while I agree with your blame towards the McCaskey’s and Angelo, you can in no way excuse Lovie Smith. Yes he may not have gotten the guys he wanted but that’s no excuse for not properly coaching his players to their potential. He and his staff have failed to bring the best out of his players on a consistent basis. Another issue with him is that he has failed to sustain the high level of play from his stars. Once they got paid, their play went downhill. Lovie is way too lenient with his team. It seems he’d rather be a player’s coach than being someone who isn’t afraid to crack some skulls. Even Tony Dungy benched or reprimanded players who crossed the line. The fault lies with all these guys. But to allude to leniency towards Lovie is kind of ridiculous.
by frenchbears113 on Dec 15, 2009 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
Also
good head coaches do what they can despite setbacks. Sparano, Norv Turner, Jeff Fisher, Rex Ryan and Singletary are examples of what good head coaching is. All these guys have gone through rough times and yet their teams are either playoff contenders or soon to be playoff contenders. Turner has coached Rivers into a brilliant QB, Sparano lost Pennington and Brown and yet the Dolphins are still contenders, Ryan has a great D with a rookie QB at the helm and his team is in the playoff hunt, SIngletary has a bunch of kids and yet the 49ers are going to be a contender next year, they’ve already looked great at times this year and have fought to the death with better teams, and Fisher made sure his guys stayed together after an 0-6 start and since then they’ve looked like a great team. All these guys are what Lovie isn’t, a great coach. With a better coach the Bears would be at .500 at least. A good coach would bench underachievers and keep his guys in line to make sure they bring it every Sunday.
by frenchbears113 on Dec 15, 2009 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
I could accept it if it was just the challenge
The catch looked close to me the when it happened.
But the TO used leading up to it was just plain lack of awareness. Lovie wasn’t paying attention to the play clock. No notice that the team was still milling about with 10 second left. No thought that maybe if he didn’t challenge soon then Jay would have to call a TO to save a penalty. No thought that “Gee, maybe I should challenge even if I haven’t heard from upstairs because we need a TO anyway”. I don’t know if Jay called the TO early and Lovie was planning on challenging at the last second, don’t know if Lovie could have decided immediately after the TO to make it a challenge instead, not sure of the rule on that. Either way, still a lack of communication. A hallmark of Lovie coaching. It’s not like you can read any non-verbal clues from his facial expressions. “Like a doll’s eyes, when he comes at ya, doesn’t seem to be living… until he bites ya”
The decision to challenge after the TO is all on Lovie’s booth team, who I assume used the TO to take an extended look at the replays.
What's worse?
A. Sunday’s game vs the Packers, when Lovie called a TO to study the replay, then challenges the play… thus losing the challenge and a second TO?
B. The opening game of the year vs the Packers, when we were punting and the Pack momentarily had 12 men on the field. Our friggin long snapper audibled to a fake punt, well after the 12rh man ran off the field, because he thought he could take advantage of a free play. We end up failing and turning it over on downs inside our 30… and then Lovie wastes a challenge on that play, thinking the Pack still had the 12th man on the field?
C. Explaining to the press that his team was unprepared for Atlanta’s no-huddle offense, even though Atlanta had just run the no-huddle in their previous game with New England, and the Bears were coming off a bye week with two weeks to prepare?
D. Calling a TO with 2 seconds left in regulation of a tied (24-24) NFC Divisional playoff game vs Seattle… giving the Seahawks one more snap on 4th down from their own 46 yard line to try and draw a pass interference and set up the winning FG?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
I would have to say A.
That wastes a timeout. And, as the game went on, it became clear the Bears could have used that lost timeout. Teams are only given three timeouts per half, so they should not be thrown away too quickly. More than once, I have seen a coach want to challenge a play, and then get told he could not challenge because his team does not have any more timeouts.
I agree with you, Lovie Smith has made some questionable challenges. But that one against us on Sunday was among the worst coaching gaffes I have ever seen. That sort of timeout mismanagement should get him fired.
Bound for New York City: January 6-9! Can't wait!
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Dec 15, 2009 1:03 AM CST up reply actions
Or what about
the TD by White where the Falcons had a 3 vs. 2 advantage on the right side? Why was a timeout not used? It just drives me insane at how indifferently Lovie burns timeouts with desperate challenges and pointless breaks, but when it is actually time to pause the action, take a breath, and talk strategy, he’s either staring off into space, or quite simply, they don’t have any because he already carelessly burned them all….
by GriggsBriggs on Dec 16, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
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