Why it Should be Angelo on the Chopping Block
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 12:11 PM CST
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Print"But SJS, you've said on these comment boards Lovie should be fired!"
... Yeah. I know, trust me, none of this is mutually exclusive (either JA or Lovie). After this debacle of a season, Lovie should go, but after looking at this some more, Angelo should definitely join him on the street. One of the arguments against this that I've heard is that Jerry needs another year to build around his quarterback, but listening to him, we had everything already in place for a new quarterback to immediately step in. That's the measure that I am judging him on today.
We all are familiar with Jerry's refrain: "We have to get the quarterback position stabilized. We're fixated on that." The belief being that the only thing a squad that's only a couple years removed from a Super Bowl berth (for that matter, a playoff berth) needed only a signal caller and they were back to the Promised Land. The mixture of a serviceable starter in Kyle Orton and a gunslinging train wreck of a quarterback named Rex Grossman wasn't enough for a team that hasn't had a Pro Bowl quarterback (much less a dependable season-to-season starter) in a damn long while. They still had traces of a defense and special teams unit that took control of other teams en route to the Super Bowl and a strong offensive line that powered a very tough running game that would run even when it was the only thing opponents legitimately feared.
But anyone can see that a team that goes from 13-3 to 7-9, to 9-7, to now a probable 6-10 or 7-9, at best, is not a team that has the same parts from the Super Bowl team. While Jerry and Lovie (and much of the public) continued to flip coins with Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton, the wide receiver corps began to fall apart (one could say "What corps?"), the offensive line began to age (a veteran line to begin with), Brian Urlacher's back got bad, Mike Brown turned into glass, Tommie Harris decided to stop playing (or we can blame his leg, whichever), The Interceptor (Nathan Vasher) crash-landed, and the defensive coordinators began to play job roulette (Goodbye Rivera, hello Babich, hello Lovie the Coordinator). Thankfully Robbie Gould still is ice cold blood runnin' through his veins (Thanks Joniak for the funniest sound byte in a while), Mannelly is still MVP, and Maynard can still pin back a team.
... Jerry, the bottom line is this. Listening to you these last few years, the only position that truly mattered was the quarterback. You believed you had every other position sewn up (including your patching up of the Offensive Line - at least you tried.) You didn't bother to at least try to improve the wide receiver corps or the secondary, hanging onto Tillman and Vasher to fully return to form, and leaning on Devin Hester, Earl Bennett and an emerging Johnny Knox to catch passes (everyone at best on their second year of NFL wide receiver). You believed Rod Marinelli would turn around a bunch of underachievers at defensive line, including revitalizing Tommie Harris and Adewale Ogunleye. Poor Danieal Manning still has to hang the "ATH" tag in his resume, still without a solid position, because the secondary is still a mess. But no, you traded away two first round picks and a third rounder and a QB piece for just another QB piece to this puzzle, because you fixated on it. This team needed more than just a QB. This team needed players all over.
You can talk about Lovie's job security all you want, Jerry. Just don't ignore the fact that you shouldn't have any job security yourself.
But if we ever need a spare LB or an underachieving DE, can we still give you a call?
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Misappropriation of team resources
Specifically early round draft picks throughout his entire career in Chicago.
Yes, he has done a good job of finding diamonds in the rough of the later rounds, but how many diamonds in late round does it take to offset a flub/bust in the early rounds???
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
Yeah, but even if you botch draft picks you can usually redeem yourself in free agency.
What got me is that filling that “fixated” hole is like attempting to fill all the holes in a block of swiss cheese by stuffing a single cork in it, and Angelo didn’t see the holes for the cheese.
Oh Ditka help me I made an analogy worthy of a Packer fan.
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
Jerry Angelo needs to go for many reasons:
Mostly free agent busts unless released by other teams: Pace, Omeile, Archuletta, Mohammed, Hutchinson.
Didn’t value the few who were good like Thomas Jones.
Made their biggest asset in Hester useless – passed by Aromashadoo & Bennet as WR and by Manning and Knox as kick returners.
Overpayed when trading, Gaines Adams, possibly Cutler.
The single largest reason is nobody wants Jerry f’n Angelo to be responsible for hiring the best available coach if/when Lovie is fired.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
First off your speling is atrocious
It’s hard to take your argument seriously when you can’t spell Omiyale, Archuleta, and Muhammad.
Second, how was Hutchinson a free agent bust? We got him for close to the NFL minimum, and he was signed to be the 3rd string QB. And he actually wasn’t completely horrible for 5 games in ’04. If you wanna call Jonathan Quinn a bust (which he was), that makes sense, but Hutchinson was actually a pretty good signing.
Hmmm, "First off your speling ..."
If you are going to go after someone for their spelling make sure you know how to spell first or look like a fool.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 24, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Second off, they haven't passed Hester (yet) through ability.
Aromashodu took a bigger role because Hester got hurt, not because he outperformed him.
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you think these three have passed Hester in ability as a WR?
I realize they haven’t passed him on a depth chart, but really?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Hard to say. Hester's not sitting healthy on the bench.
Also, after missing two games he’s still leading the team (and all Bears receivers) in receptions and yards (Knox is the only receiver beating him in TDs). I know this is his second year at WR, but he’s still got the most production on the team.
I will give you this though – other guys on the team that were actually drafted as a wide receiver (Knox, Bennett) can and are making this tough on Hester.
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 23, 2009 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Youy had me with the title alone
Firing Lovie would be a good start but until JA goes, it probably will not accomplish much. Any good HC will want some control over personel and drafting input (at least). A big time coach will want full staff control. JA will never give this up as it is his only hobby/job security.
Having the Bears managed/owned by an accountant will definitely hinder both of them going if not outright outrule it. JA will stay around and the Bears will be band-aided once again.
Angelo should already be gone
Why would any name coach want to come here with that assclown running the show? No skill at judging talent, no idea where the positions of weakness are.
In Lovie’s defense, if a team spotted him a 35-point lead at home, he wouldn’t lose it.
Oy, what a week.
Is Jerry Angelo fired yet?
So sure, are we?
In Lovie’s defense, if a team spotted him a 35-point lead at home, he wouldn’t lose it.
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
If Lovie could even GET that 35 point lead to blow it in the first place.
… But wouldn’t that be like losing to the Lions anyway?
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Lovie isn't the one
throwing the ball to the other team in the RZ. Turner blows big-time, along with Pep “I can’t teach jack to any QB” Hamilton, and the rest of the offensive staff. The slate will be cleaned on that side of the ball, and rightfully so.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Perhaps things will change
Maybe if the Bears have the balls to bring in a guy like Shanahan or Cowher or even a “lesser” coach like Grimm, maybe the higher ups say yes under the condition that they be involved in the draft process. If Angelo is given that ultimatum what can he do? If he doesn’t like it he can quit, thus forfeiting his salary. All it takes is someone to have guts enough to pull the trigger. I don’t see that happen but I smell desperation in the organization. The team has given up, fans have given up and they turned their star QB into a pathetic waste. Maybe things will change. I can hope can’t I haha?
Maybe JA wouldn't commit to Lovie's future
because he doesn’t know if his own jorb is secure for 2010…
“I won’t do this again. The next autopsy will be my own.”
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
Well...
To tell you the truth, when he said that it sounded to me like he was linking his fate and Lovie’s together with this team, and saying “Go ahead and hold me accountable – if Lovie screws this up, I screwed it up for hiring him.” This is JA being held accountable, and after the three sub-par seasons since the Super Bowl, I’d say they screwed it up. My guess is he knew he was on the hot seat prior to the year and made the trade for Cutler in a last ditch effort for both him and his coach, to get the one piece they thought was so desperately needed, when really they kinda let everything just falter.
But of course I ramble again. >_< Long-winded way of saying “Probably.”
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
Why JA should be fired??? how quickly they forget....
“Rex Grossman is the quarterback of our future”
Honestly that still pisses me off more than the way he has systematically fu*ked this team up over the last several years. IMHO Orton plays in the Super Bowl and we win…. so I have never understood why JA gets to use the Super Bowl trip in 05-06 as a feather in his cap.
The problem is that he has done exactly what he was paid to do… turn us into the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Does KO help us start off that year 7-0?
If the defense plays like it did most of the year (before the playoffs, when it seemed to falter a bit), do we have a better chance?
What if KO doesn’t get benched in the Atlanta game of his rookie year, and finishes out the season into the playoffs? Is that a Super Bowl win behind that thar defense? Does KO start ‘06-’07? Do the Bears blast their way to a division crown and Super Bowl berth relying solely on KO?
Dude, you’re playing an awfully insipid game of What If here – the only reason that team benched Orton against Atlanta in the ‘05-’06 season was because of how terrible the offense looked – Rex gave that team the best chance to put up an offense. Throw out all your “But he was a winner!” quotes, points-wise that defense was a concrete antimatter wall with archer towers firing laser guided intercepting missiles in the regular season and you know it. And you can’t say Orton would have made a difference in the playoffs, the defense had its one bad game and that’s all it takes.
Say what you will about Rex but the one thing he added was the threat of a deep ball, and the way that ‘05-’06 team operated at the start of the year, you had to respect “F—- it I’m Going Deep.”
Don’t get me wrong, Orton got a horrible shake here in Chicago, but in no way does he magically turn playoff losses into Super Bowl victories. Is he a better quarterback than Rex? History’s saying “Hell Yeah!” But he’s a different TYPE of quarterback than Rex – a shorter skillset not as dependent on the deep ball and after seeing that offense operate all of the prior year, I don’t think anybody wanted him on the field.
Angelo probably should have lost his job before this (I credit that SB appearance more to Rivera, but Harris and Ogunleye were added on his watch and both had good years — Harris a Pro Bowler IIRC? — Then also Vasher and Tillman were at the top of their games, and don’t forget Briggs. He did supply a fair number of players on that defense and Hester), but this was the ultimate litmus test for him – you got the piece you claimed you needed, now you have one shot to not screw this up and you can’t use “We don’t have a QB” as an excuse.
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 22, 2009 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
F it I'm going deep is nice and all...
but if you can’t handle the center qb exchange it doesnt matter and not only do you not belong starting in the NFL, but especially not in a Super Bowl. Grossman couldn’t even handle that… 2 Fumbles, 1 lost and 2 interceptions… that is why we lost the game. Sure once those turnovers happened it would have been nice if our stellar D could have stopped Peyton, but failing to do so does not put the loss on the D.
Say what you want about Kyle and skill sets… but time proved that Orton was the better QB over Grossman as Orton was eventually (too late) named the starter…. Orton could not and still can’t make a lot of throws, but the one thing he is good at is ball control. Considering Hester started the Super Bowl with a TD and our D was awesome all we needed was ball control, instead we got Rex Grossman.
The reason Rex was forced on us for so long…? because JA picked him in the first round and refused to acknowledge that Rex and the pick were huge mistakes, so he forced Grossman into the starting lineup…. Regardless of what these morons thought or sai at the time Rex did not give us the best chance to win… time has proven that fact.
...
Our D WASN’T stellar in those playoffs. They hung their hat on stopping points. Indy just outperformed us on every level except stopping Devin Hester.
Yes, Orton has proved to be the better QB. Did I stutter?
I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but that ball hardly moved in ‘05-’06. He grew since then. Most players do.
Kyle got shafted in ‘05-’06 though, why change things up when you were winning that way and hanging your playoff hopes on a guy fresh off injury? That much I agree with and that’s on Lovie.
Rex was a first round pick (despite what actual NFL performance would have you believe) and prior to that year hadn’t come close to starting a full season thanks to all those injuries. You’d rather not see what you drafted in the first round?
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 23, 2009 8:39 AM CST up reply actions
He grew since then
“Orton’s 15 starts and 10 victories are both rookie records for Bears quarterbacks, and the 10 victories are the third most in the NFL since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970, behind only Ben Roethlisberger’s 14 victories in 2004, and 11 victories by Joe Flacco in 2008.” according to Wikipedia….
maybe he has grown since then, but to answer your question, NO i did not want Grossman to start just because he was a 1st round pick.
Why change things up when you are winning is exactly my point… and for the only answer to be that the other guy was drafted earlier is pathetic.
...
KO was NOT responsible for those wins, that defense was insane. Here’s some other numbers to look at besides ten wins.
Margin of Victory that year was 3.6 points. Regular season points per game was 16.25 (260 points on the year over 16 games and 26th in the NFL). We weren’t exactly blowing folks out of the water here, and I remember from watching those games, most of them were spent on pins and needles wondering how many times the defense could hold up. Here’s a few scores: vs Detroit, 38-6. vs Minny, 28-3. Every other game was 7-9, 10-6, 13-10, 10-6 again. A couple outliers if you want to look it up yourself, but those were close games that clearly our defense was the MVP.
Surely it was because of our turnover differential, right? For the year the Bears were a +6 (34-28, 11th in the league – 6th in takeaways, 17th in giveaways. That’s right, BOTTOM HALF OF THE LEAGUE). Not like we really protected the ball a whole lot better, that’s an extra takeaway only about every 3 games.
Other numbers, how about 29th in offensive yardage, 31st in passing yardage? 30th in net yards per attempt?
Surely a display of offensive firepower that will never again be duplicated. THOSE numbers are why the switch was made (even though I didn’t like the timing, it kinda had to be done).
No matter what, Orton wasn’t going to lead the offense the next year and probably shouldn’t have, even though people like myself were thinking he should. We went to Rex to see if it could be better. We found out, especially in the second half of the year, it wasn’t.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2005.htm
I wouldn’t have switched out Orton that year on the “Ride the horse that brought you” principle. I am agreeing with you. But I don’t pin the Grossman switch on Angelo (which is why this post is here) – far as I’m concerned that’s with Lovie. Why I mention the Orton/Grossman “competition” and stuff in the post is because while all the focus is being dragged to that position, every other position is being pretty well neglected.
(For the record, I would have let Orton continue the ‘05-’06 season (despite a potential fan revolt, that Soldier Field crowd was relentless on every failed drive vs Atlanta), but I would have penciled in Grossman for the following year, because those offensive numbers are flat out atrocious. And what if Orton is on the field against Carolina and they got beat like they did? You’d have people wanting Grossman next year anyway.
But in all seriousness, Grossman had very few starts heading into that ‘06-’07 season, and at some point you need to find out what you have on the field in your first rounder – he was damn Pro Bowlish in that hot start.
… All I can say, I am very glad that I wasn’t in charge of making that decision.)
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 23, 2009 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
What about Griese?
Even he could’ve guided one scoring drive in the second half to help the Bears win. Lovie is to blame for not making a switch at halftime (or even late in the game).
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
My impression is that it was JA's way (Grossman) or nothing, even if Lovie wanted to make a switch
nice sig… that finale… wow…. Dexter got sloppy (just like Harry predicted)… at least thats what i say instead of this “fate” nonsense, unfortunately one of my favorite things about the show was that dexter never got sloppy….
I agree completely
I thought the season was very, very good with an amazing finale. Dexter losing his edge and serial killer common sense was disheartening, but inevitable cause he’s always craved a human connection. The great thing about the show though is that he’s stayed constant in his pursuit of “guidance” from someone similar to him (Brother, Lila, Miguel, and Arthur). Unlike previous seasons, it had an adverse effect on his future.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
JA: "We like the roster. We have a good nucleus of young players. So pretty much our roster will be intact next year. But I look at that as a positive, not a negative."
Our roster has these players picked by JA. Game winners?…or hardly playing…
1.Gaines Adams: worth a second round pick?..didn’t realize he was playing for us.
2.Jay Cutler: "I don’t worry about anybody’s observations except for the people in this building (Halas Hall),"…the WRs should fight for the ball wherever its thrown (I can do no wrong!)
3.Zackary Bowman: If you were an opposing QB, which CB would you target?
4.Josh Bullocks: the Saints seem lighter & quicker without him
5.Kevin Jones: what can we say…another injury
6.Jarron Gilbert: looks good on “you Tube” …POOLside
7.Frank Omiyale: big man, bad plan
8.Orlando Pace: “future hall of famer” visits Da Bears for some “tea”?
9.Nathan Vasher: “where art thou?”…?masking injury
10.Craig Steltz: “as good as his locks?”
11.Joaquin Iglesias: “like we need more recievers”…more the merrier!…quantity over quality!
12.Lance Louis: paid to be benched
13.D.J.Moore: hope lasts the pre-season in the NFL
14.Matt Toeaina: practice only please
15.Adrian Peterson: once the starting RB, now…identity crisis
16.Henry Melton: another wanna be return specialist?…or a replacement for Mark Anderson next year?
Thats more than 25% of the rooster…will not bother to mention ALL the active players here!
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