Poll: Should Forte Shoulder the Blame?
by Dane Noble on Dec 8, 2009 4:05 PM CST
in Poll
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We've heard a lot of mixed opinions on where to place the blame for the Bears anemic running game this year... sophomore slump for Matt Forte, bad OL play, erroneous playcalling by Ron Turner. But honestly, can you really make an argument that it has anything to do with Forte's efforts?
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Awfulness
all the way around the offense.
My order of how bad everyone has been:
1. O-line- I don’t have enough patience or room to list everything that is beyond awful.
2. Turner- predictability on offense is not a strong-suit. Definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
3. Cutler- if not for his untimely INTs, the Bears would be in the playoff picture.
4. Forte- couldn’t allude a blade of grass, or out-run a hermit crab.
5. Olsen- can you at least try to feign interest in blocking someone? How about breaking a tackle once this season?
We're not scaremongering (nightmare of a season continues), this is really happening (Bears are more than done) - Radiohead
Unfortunately
it is a combination of all three. There is no doubt in my mind that Turners’ playcalling is plain awful. I also realize that our offensive line has had some serious troubles holding their blocks for any length of time. Forte has talent, we saw that last year and have seen glimpses of that this year but I think that at times this year he has looked tentative, almost too patient. I am a big Forte fan and hope that he will be back with an attitude and some decisiveness next year.
"When all is said and done, more is said than done" - Lou Holtz
by vinny numero uno on Dec 8, 2009 4:36 PM CST reply actions
Its a combo of all three.
But mostly the O-Line and Turner.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
No band-wagoner fans allowed, pick a team and stick with em, throughout the good and the bad.
well..
It seems like Forte got a case of the Sean Alexander disease: run 2 yards, fall down. I didn’t play RB, don’t really know the position well, so I can’t postulate as to how much of that is him, and how much is simply bad o-line. I remember when the Bears drafted him there was much hype about his ability to find holes in the line and use them, that he had good ball carrier vision as you might call it in Madden. Supposing thats true about Forte, maybe the lack of O-line support made rendered his BCV useless as it’s quite impossible to find holes to run through when there are none.
Still, my angry side blames this all on Turner.
Give him a year
Last year the packers run blocking was really subpar and as a result Ryan Grant had 3.9 ypc which was only inflated by the lions being awful and other easy games. The run blocking with the addition of QJ the fullback and some new linemen and tight ends blocking better have made him do better even though he may only be average. I think that this is the case with Forte and if he had the holes he could do like he did last year.
I voted for all three, but I agree with the O-line being more of an issue, however...
no one mentions Jason McKie. I just don’t see what the Bears see in this guy. He’s a terrible runner, not a good receiver, and his blocking is average at best just because he’s a reasonably big body, but I can’t recall many really good blocks he’s ever thrown. I find it hard to believe that you couldn’t find a converted Tight End who could play the position better than he does.
The line is about 90% of the problem
Forte has not looked very aggressive this year. Maybe he’s just not finding any holes and is waiting for something to open up. I think they need to keep mixing Bell in to spell Forte and change up the pace. I’m not really sure what they see in McKie either. He’s probably buddies with Lovie, though.
"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon
i agree about mckie
…but I was over ruled by others here when I posted that a while back. I guess I just don’t see it.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
Here's the data and ratings on McKie
from ProFootballFocus. If y’all remember, I posted this website a while back… they track every player on every play of every game, and rate the player’s performance on each play.
They’ve got McKie’s run blocking as pretty average through most of the season, with 3 games being rated poorly.
Link to McKie’s ratings here, and link to how they score here.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
The O line
With a good enough offensive line, even I could run for 1000 yards in the NFL, and the line is also a large part of the problem with Cutler. The problems that Forte is having, and that Cutler is having are symptoms of the disease – the disease itself is a bad offensive line. Bad defined = a combination of old or incompetent players, incompetent coaching, and lack of leadership among the players and coaches. Kreutz used to be a leader, he is not one any longer from what I have seen. Not saying this in a bad way, just that’s how it is.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
Why do you say this?
Kreutz used to be a leader, he is not one any longer from what I have seen.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
hey dane
Leaders lead from the front and by example, and I have not seen anything from Kreutz to indicate he is doing anything to motivate the unit he used to be considered the leader of – the offensive line. Has he called any players only meetings? Has he had a great year on the field? When folks are talking about Beekman replacing him next year, it tells me that I’m not the only one that sees a player in his declining years. If you have seen some examples of his leadership, please let us know what they are and I will keep an open mind about him. I’m singling Kreutz out here because of the discussion of the O line, I realize there is plenty else not going right with the Bears this season.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
I can't give any examples, because I'm not with the team.
I don’t know what goes on in the lockerroom or on the practice field or in meetings.
But I do know that Olin is still a team captain, and has always been known as a leader of the Chicago Bears offense. I can’t imagine that that has suddenly changed.
Sure, his play is not what it used to be… maybe that is what you are talking about. But I haven’t heard anything from anyone about him no longer being a leader on the team.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
follow up
He has the title of team captain, but that and a $3 will buy you a cup of coffee, and I don’t dispute that he has been known as a leader of the offense in the PAST. The title doesn’t mean jack. I don’t have locker room access and I don’t access the meetings or the practice field either, but from what I have seen and read, he has not actually stepped up to try to lead the weak O line to improve itself. Where is the evidence? Winning against the Rams does not indicate an improvement in the O line. I’m talking about all aspects of his team involvement. He’s talked the talk, but he hasn’t walked it this year.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
follow up redux
…from what I have seen and read, he has not actually stepped up to try to lead the weak O line to improve itself.
What do you mean? We know the OL sucks, but what are you talking about him not trying lead the OL to improve itself? He can’t make our players more talented.
You’ve read things that suggest he hasn’t been a leader this year? Link it up…
And what do mean talked the talk but not walked the walk?
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
further
My point has nothing to do with making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear a.k.a. making players more talented, it’s about being a leader and motivating them.
In the past Kreutz has basked in the glory of being crowned the leader of the offense, so I’m saying act like one and I’ve asked you to show me evidence of that if you want, but no need to.
Absent that, then my opinion is as valid as any other.
You are mistaking the intangible of leadership for improved physical performance and that is not my meaning.
As for linking up things to suggest he “hasn’t” been a leader, that would be attempting to prove a negative.
A negative cannot be proved.
In conclusion, by talking the talk but not walking the walk, I am referring to Kreutz where he has mouthed off in the past, and noting how he has been quiet this year in that I have not read any news accounts of him saying or doing anything contructive to help his O line improve.
I would suggest if you need citations, to go look for them yourself as I am not out to convince you or anyone else that I am right – just expressing my opinion, and leaving the door open to evidence that will show me that I am mistaken.
Absent that, I rest my case.
Go Bears!
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
farther
Look homie, my questions all revolve around you stating that something has changed with Kreutz’s leadership. You said that from what you have seen and read, he’s no longer stepping up. If you’ve really read something like that, I was just wondering where that was.
I’m not trying to say your opinion is invalid… I’m just saying that we don’t see the meetings, we don’t see the lockerroom, we don’t hear what players say on the sidelines or in the huddle…
Kreutz has always been touted as a leader, so I’m just wondering what you could have seen or heard that makes you feel differently.
You are all gentlemen (and ladies) and good judges of cheap whiskey.
Maybe...
Kreutz should knock Omiyale upside the head with a dumbbell
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2009 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
I think all of Forte's problems come from bad O-Line play
The guy is obviously sick of having 6 guys in his face in the backfield. He just seems to go down too easily.
And his fumbles seem to come when he has 2 guys tackling him and someone trying to strip him. I don’t blame him for fumbles when that happens. Maybe if the offensive line could block, guys wouldn’t be able to strip and hold him.
I just hope this doesn’t ruin him, and that once we fix the line he’ll go back to hitting the hold hard and making that guy in the secondary miss.
i think so too
its kinda like i think of cutler. They are both not playing well, but both have been beaten up all year. Cutler’s short clock, and forte just running softly into the back of his own lineman. So while they aren’t playing as well as they should, much of the problem is an extension of the poor o-line play
I think Forte will still be a good back
I have faith. It’s just a sophomore slump; with a fresh playcaller and some improved o-line and maybe some coaching help he’ll get back to where he was.
I was just wondering
Does anyone know how often the Bears run without a FB this year? They use a lot more two TE sets to keep Olsen on the field but with his blocking being suspect, I am just curious if maybe by not having McKie blocking for Forte has hurt the run game.
I’m going with bad OL and poor OCing. Forte’s not the second coming of Sweetness or Sayers, but he’s shown flashes of what he can every now and then when the OL manages to open a hole for him. Unfortunately he’s not Barry Sanders either and can’t make something out of absolutely nothing, but players who can are once in a generation.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
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