Lovie to Install "His Defense"
by Haightminow on Feb 21, 2009 3:40 PM CST
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PrintOne of the reasons Lovie Smith has moved mini-camp up three months early to mid march is so he can get a jump on installing "his defense". according to a recent article in the Sun-Times.
Lovie also said that the Bears aquired the best free agent available on the market in Rod Marinelli. He also believes that Adewale Ogunleye will rebound from an inconsistant '08 season comming into the final year of his contract.
Now that Lovie Smith is taking a personal approach to putting his finger prints on "his defense" I can imagine that the Bears hopes of returning to defensive dominance may come to pass.
Defense has always been Lovies specialty and considered to be one of the best in the business. Will Lovie Smith shine in the spotlight and stake his claim as one of the legends in the long history of Chicago Bear greats or fail to meet the standard set so high by the fans of this storied franchise?
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Stake his claim?
He has to do much more than help his defense rebound to stake his claim in Bears’ history of greats. Anything short of another SB appearance, or possibly a victory in order to cement his place.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Lovie Smith
Lovie Smith pretty much sucks. Then Bears caught lightning in a bottle in 2006 with Devin Hester, who singlehandedly launced them into the Super Bowl. That’s all.
Jerry Angelo said he wasn’t going to make any major splashes in Free Agency saying instead that:
“he’s counting on coaching and attitude making the team better in 2009, specifically the defense.”
That pretty much is an indictment on Last Years coaching and player attitude. What else is there?
Isn’t that Lovie Smith’s job: Coaching and player attitude?
Surely a problem
I agree the responsibility is on the coaches to motivate the players, but that’s why Lovie is taking the reins this season (Babich failed). Marinelli is the best D-line coach in the business, so it’s realistic that the current players can get back to where they were a couple years ago. It’s “they’ve done it before, they can do it again” attitude. If the Bears fail to make the playoffs this year, then no else can take the blame but Smith.
As far as free-agency goes, Angelo is not going to reveal their plans like a good GM should. It’s obvious he won’t try to land the “big-ticket” free agent, but it almost never works out. It’s been proven over and over that teams are successful building through the draft, not free-agency. I believe JA will sign a RT, and possibly a WR in FA. Safety is another need, but he can wait until the draft to fill Brown’s spot.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Marinelli
Marinelli will help and underachieving line. The biggest problem though is Lovie. He’s a Dungy disciple. Dungy, without Peyton maning, wasn’t much. With Manning that team should have won much more. Not all Dungy disciples are that way, however. Mike Tomlin is a motivator.
The HC’s number one job, going back to Lombardi up to guys like Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Ryan & Ditka, is to get the absolute most out of your players, using motivational techniques.
Unfortunately for the Bears, on of their greatest players (Mike Singletary), is doing just that for the rival 49ers.
Lovie doesn’t have it. Period.
Dungy, without Peyton maning, wasn’t much.
Remember the buccaneers? you can’t blame Dungy for manning being a choke-artist. you can’t blame him for having a kicker that runs his mouth one year, and misses a chipshot the next year. dungy almost got tampa bay in the superbowl, were it not the referees absent-mindedness.
Lovie smith got the bears to play. it’s what he’s done to the coaching staff that gets my dander up. if Chico were still here we’d still be contenders
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 22, 2009 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Look
I’m not saying that Dungy is a bad coach. OK. Here’s the deal. He did a good job in Tampa, and yet, according to Sapp (who loves Tony) he had an undisciplined offense, which is why Gruden was brought in.
When Mike Vanderjagt criticized BOTH Peyton and Tony for being too passive, he was right.
You blame EVERYBODY but Dungy. Most people say that Manning is the best or second best QB of this generation (with Brady) and yet you call him a choke artist.
Hey, crownem: Think the Bears would like to have a “choke artist” like that at QB? I sure do.
With all that talent in INDY I’d say BOTH Dungy and Manning have underachieved a little.
I wouldn’t call Dungy a bad coach (he’s a good, NOT GREAT coach) and I wouldn’t call Manning a choke artist (although he definitely has struggled some in his career in the playoffs).
Lovie fails in the main criteria for a HC. He doesn’t get his team to play up to and beyond their capabilities. His failure was never more evident than in the last game of last season, in Houston. When Tillman said that “Houston wanted it more than us” that’s an indictment of Lovie Smith. Period.
actually
When Tillman said that "Houston wanted it more than us" that’s an indictment of Lovie Smith. Period.
that’s more an indictment on professional players. this isn’t high school. nfl coaches should be more strategist than pom pom. lucky for us he fails in both.
RE: Actually
I’m not saying that the players are blameless. But can you imagine a Ditka led team or Parcells led team (and so on ) EVER saying that after a playoff type game?
Please respond back with your HONEST answer.
BTW: Here’s mine: NO F**KING WAY!!
Try yelling and screaming at an adult
See how much you motivate that person (s) and get back to me. Plain and simple it doesn’t work. Professionals need to play like professionals. Anderson, Whale, Harris, and Brown are the ones to blame not Lovie (some blames to Babich as well). I’m not so sure that Chico would’ve faired any better these past two years. It’s not like the Chargers tore it up since he’s been there.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Try yelling . . .
Run, don’t walk to your nearest library an check out “Instant Replay” by Jerry Kramer and Dick Schapp. Read about Lombardi.
Besides, you miss the point. Tom Landry never said TWO words to anybody. And he was as much a “dictator, drill sergeant” as Lombardi was. As were guys like Shula, and Ditka and Ryan and Parcells and Vermeil and so on.
It’s not about “yelling” per se, it’s about discipline and motivation. Lovie ain’t got it. Period. That’s why HIS defense underachieved so badly last year. Lovie’s one of them “player coaches.” They don’t last in the NFL.
Many (not all) players NEED to be motivated in the NFL. That’s the essence of that book. Read it.
RE: Wait
I’m not saying he’ s a bad coach. He’s not. He’s a good coach. Good , however, just doesn’t cut it. Maybe in Cincinnati or Cleveland or Buffalo, but not with the Bears.
I just don’t think he gets the most out of his team. That’s all. I think he sits back, shuts up, and lets the players play. Sometimes that’s not enough. Especially when they get huge contracts and soon thereafter start coasting. He reminds me of Dusty Baker, without the toothpick.
2006. The Bears had/have a lot of quality players on defense. They played well that year. But Devin Hester saved everybody’s ass that year. But for him they don’t sniff the Super Bowl in 2006.
Hester didn't have an impact
in the playoffs. the bears would had been in the superbowl regardless of devin hester. if they would had been 13-3 is a different story.
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 22, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions
RE: Hester
Dude, you’re smarter than this (I hope). Really. Hester singlehandedly (that means by himeself) won games in 2006. Mike Shanahan used thast exact word (singlehandedly) about the Broncos loss to the Bears that year.
Without Hester they probably don’t even make the playoffs.
That said, while he didn’t have any TD’s in the playoff games against Seattle and NO, those team were scared S**TLESS of him which helped give the Bears a big field position advantage in those games.
As we all know, he returned to opening kickoff for a TD in the SB. Rex Grossman threw a TD pass to Muhammad later in the first quarter. The Bears should have been up 14-0 at that point. No team, in the previous 40 Super Bowls, EVER came back from a 14 point deficit. That doesn’t automatically mean the Bears would have won, but it sure wouldn’t hurt.
Unfortunately, sandwiched in between those two TD’s was Daniael Manning’s boneheaded play, whereby he left Reggie Wayne COMPLETELY alone for an easy TD.
But I digress. Being dismissive of Hester in 2006 because he didn’t score a TD in the playoffs (But he most certainly DID have an impact) is really kind of stupid.
The Titans
Erased a 16-0 score in Super Bowl XXXIV to tie the game, which was the biggest comeback in a Super Bowl. But the Rams ended up winning….
Things will get better as they improve...
RE: The Titans
Geauxbears: You’re right. I meant to say that no team has ever come back from a 14 point deficit to win the game.
Actually, they ran a graphic during the past SB. The actual number might even be 13 or even 11.
RE: You're forgetting
I didn’t. I was responding to ifuwannacrownem’s 4:14 post whereby he said that Hester didn’t have an impact in the playoffs. I said that even though he didn’t score against Seattle and New Orleans, he HAD an impact in that their fear of Hester helped the Bears with field position.
The opening SB TD kinda goes without saying.
I'll bring up three points
1) He was never super vocal. So I don’t get your coasting comment, really. It’s not like we saw a major (or minor, for that matter) emotional swing based on his contract.
2) During the SB year, Lovie was VERY underpaid compared to how he was doing.
3) Devin Hester helped, yes. Did he win us a few games? Yes. But Hester really didn’t do that much in the playoffs. Without our defense, we wouldn’t have made the Super Bowl
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
RE: I'll bring up
Who was never vocal? You misunderstood me. I wasn’t talking about Lovie, i was talking about guys like Tommie Harris, who “conviently” disappear once they hit the jackpot.
As far as Hester and the playoffs, please see the above post of mine. Look at the paragraph starting “That said . . .”
BTW: Hester won a few games (Rams, Broncos) literally by himself. He ignited the comeback win against the Cards with his punt return. But for Hester, we probably never end up seeing Dennis Green’s famous meltdown.
Not exactly
Outsiders wouldn’t really say the Bears have had a lot of talent the past few years. It may be true that they’ve over-achieved this year (SB year as well), going 9-7 is not too shabby for the lack of talent on offense. It seems to me Lovie does get a lot out his players cause the numbers add up in his favor. He’s won a more games than any coach since Ditka. Give him one or two more years to get back to the SB and win it.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Not exactly
I disagree somewhat. On defense Tommie Harris is/was considered one of the best D-tackles in football. Urlacher and Briggs, along with Tillman are another three EXCELLENT, Pro-Bowl type players.
In 2008, the Bears struck GOLD with Forte. Orton IMO, played very well until he busted his ankle.
To me, last year they greatly underachieved on defense. Look no further than the NFC South games (Atlanta, Carolina, and TB). All late game losses that they should have won.
Against Atlanta, Orton drives them to a game leading TD with, what, 11 seconds left, and the defense blows it.
Honestly, I think if you had told people BEFORE the 2008 season that Forte was going to be a stud and that Orton was going to be a steady, consistent, QB, that most people would think that those things, coupled with the Bear defense would pretty much put them in the playoffs.
Injuries
It’s the main reason why Harris isn’t dominant anymore, not Lovie’s coaching. The truth is this defense is getting a little long in the tooth, and a few upgrades are needed to rebound. Everything will look a lot better when the line gets pressure on the QB. Marinelli better light a fire under those guys.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Injuries
They’re a part of the game but I said the same thing about Marinelli. Why? He’s a drill sergeant.
Water seeks it’s level. If you have a coach that isn’t demanding enough, SOME players don’t push themselves enough. It’s really that simple.
The defense really isn't getting old that fast
Because the Bears keep drafting more and more defense every year.
Only problem is: they’ve been whiffing at DE, LB, and S lately.
Done a pretty good job at DT with Harrison and Dvoraceck (who’s underachieving as far as I’m concerned). Done a very good at CB with Graham, and McBride, and I like Bowman too. Throw Manning in there as a nickel and return man.
But, gotta stop whiffing at those key positions. We need safeties NOW. And we need to development replacements at LB and DE.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that.
We know it's the most valuable position on the football team. We've gone through so many scenarios at that position we can write a book, moreso on what not do."
-- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
.
I’m not so sure that Chico would’ve faired any better these past two years. It’s not like the Chargers tore it up since he’s been there.
When riviera took over the Defensive coordinator posistion the chargers defense were significantly better. you probably forgot that he’s just been linebackers coach these past couple seasons
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
ditka won one super bowl
and he only needed the most dominate team in history to do it. So I’m not sure he’s my benchmark for excellence. being loud doesn’t mean you’re a good coach.
more than a couple times players have said they got their asses chewed at half time by lovie.
RE: Ditka
The number of Super Bowls is not the issue.
Ditka came in and cleaned house. Got rid of those players just collecting a paycheck. And than he (along with Ryan) NEVER let up.
As Dan Hampton said, when asked about Ditka “He was a prick . . . but he was OUR prick.”
That kind of coaching works.
Lovie and Dungy are the opposite of guys like Lombardi and Parcells and Ditka.
Lovie and Dungy
Are still good coaches(In Dungy’s case great, HOF). They don’t have to yell or curse their players, and that should warrant as much, if not more respect from players. Grown men getting paid millions of dollars shouldn’t need another man chewin their ass out, to get production out of them.
As for Lovie installing “his defense”, I think it’s a good call. I’m excited to see what exactly he’ll do and how “good” of a coach he really is.
"URLACHER IS GOD"
Lovie and Dungy
Dungy is NOT a great coach. Period. He GREATLY benefitted by having one of the greatest QB’s of his generation. Beyond that, even with that QB, his overall playoff record is kind of weak.
Great coaches don’t need to be replaced (like he was in Tampa) to have the team win the Super Bowl. He’s a good coach. very good. NOT GREAT.
As far as “grown men” shouldn’t need another man chewin their ass out, maybe they shouldn’t, but often they do. It all goes back to Lombardi. Those “grown men” were the laughingstock of the league before Lombardi got there and instilled toughness (both mental & physical) and discipline.
Besides, one thing that escapes most people is this: Even though these guys are HUGE in many ways they are spoiled kids. When these guys come into the league (and beyond) they are in their early 20’s and have spent most of their lives having their ass kissed by everyone telling them how great they are.
They are basically spolied , now rich, kids who need discipline.
I have a friend who played for the Cowboys in the late 90’s. He completey agrees with this assessment.
so?
That kind of coaching works.
lot’s of different coaching works.
RE: So
Make a list of all the SB winning coaches. Virtually all of them were the “hard ass, dictator type.” You won’t find very many “Wade Phillips or Norv Turner’s” on there. Case closed.
RE: Back That Up.
Well, let’g go with some recent ones in this past decade:
Tomlin – Even though he came from the Dungy tree he’s a disciplinarian. That’s why Pittsburgh hired him over their own coaches (Whisenhunt & Grimm).
Coughlin – Hard Ass
Belichick – Hard Ass
Cowher – Hard Ass
Vermeil – Hard Ass
Gruden – Hard Ass
Bilick – He’s like I would catagorize Walsh and Holmgren. All of those guys are offensive coaches who are more like “professors” – Stern taskmasters.
Dungy – Easy going player’s coach (by his own admission). Fortunately for him, he went up against his “mirror image” in SB 41. One of those guys had to win.
There seems to be some confusion regarding “yelling.”
That’s not the point. The clearest and best example of this
is Tom Landry. Both he and Lombardi were assistant coaches with the Giants before getting their own teams. Both were hard ass, dictator types. They just had completely different styles. Lombardi was a screamer and Landry never said two words. But nobody F**KEd with Landry. He ruled with an iron fist. He just did it in a quite way.
The fact is...
no one knows what happens behind closed doors. Just because someone has an “aura” about him (ex. Tomlin), it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a hard ass. On more than one occasion last year Lovie was said to have had chewed the team’s ass out during halftime. Don’t be mislead by people who carry themselves with quiet dignity.
Teddy Roosevelt- “Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far.”
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
It's the quiet ones who are most dangerous.
In my opinion. Yelling at players doesn’t accomplish as much as teaching a player properly.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
What do you mean?
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: It's the
God, this gets tiring. Listen close. It’s not about “Yelling” per se.
Lombardi yelled. Landry didn’t.
If it’s not so much about yelling then, GeoMak, what’s it about?
It’s about things like discipline and accountability and motivation. That’s what. Things that some coaches don’t have/do.
This is a quote from Jerry rice about his HC in Oakland (Norv Turner): “He could not motivate his players. He had no control.”
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Now, the fact of the matter is this: Mosgreat coaches, who COULD motivate and discipline and hols d players accountable, WERE yellers.
It doesn’t mean they had to yell (like Landry).
Get off the “yelling” part of this and try to understand what I am saying here. Please.
Then what are you saying?
You hate Lovie Smith? Why?
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: Then
I don’t HATE Lovie (although I HATE that soft, Tampa 2 defense). In a city that spawned Dick Butkus and the 46 defense, it’s hard to watch that soft defense.
Ona scale from 1-5 where 5 is a great coach, I put Lovie at 3 as a HC.
I just don’t think he has the ability to get his players to play up to and beyond there capabilites, ala all those other coaches I usually mention.
See my 2:15 post “RE Singletary”
That’s what I’m talkin about in getting the best out of your players. I just don’t think much of Lovie and a motivator and disciplinarian.
What?
No one has really mentioned yelling since my original quote. You’re the one bringing up over and over again. Lovie does hold his players accountable. He cut Booker, Lloyd, Manning Jr. last year, let Grossman become a FA, upgraded Roach over Hillenmeyer/Williams, tried to find Manning the best fit on defense and eventually succeeded, fired many coordinators/position coaches, demoted Anderson and promoted Brown. Lovie talks about “accountability” all the time.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: The fact is
Oh please. Come on.
You’ve heard about Tom Coughlin, right? Coughlin? Aura? Please. That’s too funny. Just like Vermeil going into Vermeils third year with the Rams, both Vermeil and Coughlin were told by management to “lighten up” a little or they would probably soon be fired.
They each won the Super Bowl that year.
Read “Instant Replay” about Lombardi. Tell me if that’s “aura” or fact (as related by Jerry Kramer).
I’m not saying that Lovie has never “yelled at a player.”
I AM saying that both he and Dungy are ON record as saying that they do things a different way from guys like Lombardi, Landry, Shula, Ditka, Coughlin,. Parcells, Ryan, vermeil, bekichick and so on.
Fine. So be it. I’ll take those other guys.
Just like I’ll take a Mike Singletary over “Lovie.”
Singletary hasn't even shown that he can coach.
Give him a whole year before we anoint him.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: Singletary
You’re right. the proof is in next years (and the following years) record.
That said, the guy can coach. He almost completely changed the attitude of that team.
Joe Montana said as much.
He did that in his FIRST game. When he threw Vernon Davis off the field after he made a stupid penalty and then acted like “what’s the big deal?”
I’m sure you are familiar with that. I’ve never seen a coach throw a player off the field.? I haven’t. Davis should have been humiliated, right? Should have HATED Singletary.
Not quite. The next week, on MNF in Arizona, Davis made a great TD catch and then hugged Singletary on the sideline. Afterwards, he said that Singletary was the “Best coach he has ever had.”
Mike Singletary knows how to motivate his players and more importantly, hold them accountable for their actions.
Now that Singletary is the permanent HC, you’ll see Davis have a breakout year. Up till now, he’s considered an underachiever with the Niners, almost a bust, considering he was the 6th pick in the draft.
One full year under Singletary will changed all that.
I am pro-Mike Singletary.
He has said that his dream is to coach the Bears. And I anticipate the day but right now we have Lovie and I’m anticipating another trip to the super bowl and a victory with Lovie as our coach.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: I am pro
As I’ve stated before, he made a comment (cause I’ve been closely following him since he became interin HC) that led me to believe that he was less than happy with the Bears organization in regards to his coaching career.
Maybe he eventually will become the Bears HC. If so, they’re going to have to wai a long, long time. i predict that he’ll be in SF for a long, long time.
Doesn't work for everyone
Please don’t assume that throwing a player off the field would work with many players, cause it won’t. A lot observers were criticizing him for that same act the very next day.
“You’re right. the proof is in next years (and the following years) record.”
“That said, the guy can coach. He almost completely changed the attitude of that team. Joe Montana said as much.”
Well you really didn’t wait until next year to decide if he can coach or not by this statement. Montana is not a viable source since he never coached a day in his life.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
I agree.
Although I THINK he will succeed and I hope he does well but the 49ers are one of the Bears most hated foes and I wish him pain and misery when the time comes for us to play. But back to the point, I agree, we cannot call this guy a great coach because he hasn’t done anything yet.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: I agree
No guy who has coached 8 games can be called a great coach. That said, IMHO, he’s got all of the elements necessary for greatness (not goodness or OKness).
Only time will tell.
The number one job of a HC is to get the most out of his players. That goes back to Lombardi. Or to what Bum Phillips use to say about Shula.
Phillps: “He (Shula ) can take his’in and beat your’in or take your’in and beat his’in.”
To translate, he said that Shula could take his players and beat your team or take your players and beat his team.
That’s the hallmark of greatness in the NFL. And not many coaches have it. Lovie doesn’t have.
To me (and I’m allowed my opinion) Singletary has that ability in him.
RE: Doesn't
See I knew you were going to come back with something like this. I’m not (and neither is MS) advocating throwing players off the field.
The people who criticized him? Who cares! You’re talking mainly fans and the media.
Fact is, i was almost laughing when it happened because he was equal parts “Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka” with the episode (kind of like the time Ryan benched Singletary in his first start).
He got his message across LOUD and CLEAR with his “new” team." There’s a new sheriff in town and things are going to be a LOT different going forward.
Look, I can’t keep going on with you. You exhaust me.
Let me explain “Montana.” OK.
Many fans love Singletary in the bay area, and yet many aren’t use to his “style.” Some aren’t sure what to make of him.
Now, since Joe Montana was and still is a local legend in SF and since he’s a HOF’er, I think HIS opinion on the Niners new HC is JUST A LITTLE more important than the “average Joe.” Don’t you think?
After all, we’re not talking Joe the Plumber here.
Were talking Joe Montana, who played most of his career on that exact same field.
While yes, propheteer, he’s not a coach, I think Montana’s opinion is worth SOMETHING (don’t you)?
God, you argue just to argue. It’s EXHAUSTING!
Very exhausting
but you’re being very speculative, while not proving anything by using stats, or whatever. Why not try to back it up with coaches records, championships, etc.? Compare all the “great” coaches numbers and divide them into two groups. One titled soft-spoken coaches, and the other “fiery” coaches. I’m done with this debate!!!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Very Exhausting
This makes even less sense than before.
I DID prove it showing stats . Make a list of all GREAT or SB winning coaches and you will find that MOST of them were in the Lombardi, Shula, Parcells mode than in the Dungy, Lovie, Norv and Wade mode.
You make a list. I can’t do everything for you.
Noll? Yeah, now there was real friendly guy.
Before 9-11, do you remember how so many military phrases were in the football lexicon" “Into battle, the blitz, the bomb and so forth”
Football is the closet most of us will get to watching combat in our lives.
For the most part, you want the guy leading your team to be more of a “military sergeant type” than a that of a “player friendly” type.
That’s just the way it is (and NFL history MORE than backs me up on this)!
so your version of proving it
is writng hard ass next to a guys name. ok.
RE: So your
Look. Don’t be stupid. I’m not so I need you not to be also. In all of sports, most managers/coaches are classified as either SOFT (players coach) or HARD (dictator type).
Often a team will replace one type with the other. The Cubs are a perfect example. They replaced the laid back, toothpick chewing “players manager” in Dusty Baker with the fiery, tempermental Lou Piniella (who, unfortunately for me, isn’t fiery enough . . . but that’s another story).
It’s never easy (or completely fair) to label people either/or, but sometimes that’s what we have to do.
In the annals of the NFL, IN MY OPINION, most of the greatest coaches were the Lombardi, Landry, Ditka, Parcells dictator type of coaches as opposeed to the “Dusty Baker” types.
That’s all. You are free to agree/disagree with me.
Just don’t make a comment that “writing hard ass” proves it.
I can’t PROVE anything. That said, if you don’t think those guys were “hard asses” then you really haven’t been paying much attention.
I’m not so I need you not to be also
debateable. anyway, the point is that
I can’t PROVE anything
you have no idea if vermeil was a hard ass or not, just like you have no idea if lovie smith or dungy are. for all you know both of them deliver new assholes in the locker room.
+1
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
Oh my God.
Are you SERIOUS? Please, you are embarassing yourself.
Look. Here’s what you do, Ever hear of the program “America’s Game” that is shown on NFL network? It profiles all the SB winning teams.
Try to watch the episode about the 1999 SB winning Rams under Vermeil. They run these things over and over again.
Dick was one of the “hardest asses EVER” in the NFL. Before that season, the players threatened to GO ON STRIKE if he didn’t lighten up. Management FORCED Vermeil to ease up on his players.
Honestly, I have EVERY idea that Dick Vermeil was a complete “hard ass, dictator type” of coach.
The fact that you would even question that just shows how little you know about that subject. Really.
BTW: By their OWN admission, Lovie and Tony AREN’t “hard asses.” They have both said that they coach in an almost opposite manner.
When you say that “I don’t know” I sure do!!!!
I’m just going by what they themselves have said!
Statistical data using numbers,
not saying he’s a successful coach because he’s fiery doesn’t cut it.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
It's like saying Abe Lincoln
was the best president ever, without even mentioning the Gettysburg Address or the Emancipation Proclaimation! Jeez….
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Lincoln
Now, you are making NO sense.
What’s this got to do with anything.
Tell you what, though. You and Mike B, make your OWN list of all the SB winning coaches.
And then YOU guys label them as I said in my 1:33 post entitled " RE: so your."
It’s pretty simple, really. Guys are either no nonsense, hard ass coaches or else “nice guy, player coaches.”
I’m pretty sure that you’ll soon see that the NFL landscape, when it comes to winning, successful coaches, is littered with guys who would easily be described as “hard ass coaches.”
Period.
It's your boastful claim, not ours.
BTW- it’s called an analogy that makes perfect sense. I claim something is true by backing it up with statistical data or factual events. You didn’t show anything to prove your point. All you did was say these coaches were successful because of their “in-your-face-attitude.” Get it?!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
huh?
So the number of Super Bowls is not the issue, but you bash Dungy for not winning enough?
Interesting…
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Feb 23, 2009 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
RE: Huh?
Where did I bash Dungy? I just don’t drink the koolaid there. He’s not a GREAT coach. Period. He had just as good a QB as Belichick did and routinely got his ass kicked by BIll in the playoffs. Belichick is a great coach, Dungy a (very) good coach.
Dungy’s playoff record is very mediocre. I’m not bashing him there. I’m just stating a fact. Playoff losses like losing 44-0 to the Jets, for example, don’t look very good on a resume’.
The poster at 9:25 bashed Ditka because he only won one SB.
Here are the facts: Dungy took over a good team from Jim Mora that just happened to have a HOF’er at QB. Ditka took over a mess.
No “nice” guy was going to turn the Bears around in that situation. What was need there was exactly what Ditka (and Ryan) brought to the table: “drill sergeant, dictator” type coaching.
Anybody that doesn’t know/understand this doesn’t know/understand Bear history.
The same can be said of BB.
Anyone can argue that BB has benefited greatly because of Brady. Did you know that Peyton only had a 70.5 passer rating the year they won the SB? That’s not exactly riding the shirt-tails of a great QB.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
During the playoffs that is...
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: The same
Come on, are you saying that Manning isn’t a great QB? That’s stupid. Don’t pull out one set of numbers for his career. That year they had the worst rushing defense in NFL (regular season) history. I’m sure that affected Manning and the offense.
Manning’s a first ballot HOF’er.
Yeah, Belichick has Brady. That sure helps Bill. There is a little difference. Manning was the first pick in the draft, Brady a sixth rounder. Brady became who he was through his hard work and the work by one of Belichicks coaches (the QB coach who I believe passed away a few years ago).
Dungy inherited Manning in I think manning’s third season. By then he was pretty much a Pro-Bowl QB.
Belichick and his staff had more to do with “Brady being Brady” than Dungy and his staff had to do with “Manning being Manning.”
Just a small point.
Belichick and his HOF QB consistently has beaten Dungy and his HOF QB.
I didn't say he wasn't great
What I said was PM had a terrible postseason (Rex having a better rating says it all) en route to Dungy’s only championship. You were arguing that that was the main reason for the Colts winning, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The fact is the Colts defense won every playoff game including the SB.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Zero relevance
Where Brady was taken means absolutely nothing. It’s his impact on winning SBs. It’s much greater than Manning’s impact on the Colts winning against the Bears.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Zero
Again you twist. When Dungy inherited Manning he was already considered to be one of the NFL’s “Next Great QB’s.”
Nobody ever said anything like that when Belichick drafted Brady.
That’s all I’m saying there.
Belichick and company had a lot more work to do in getting Brady to the level he eventually got to.
It doesn't matter!
Brady was the single most important reason/asset/player for the Pats while winning 3 SBs. We’re talking about the “impact” of these two QBs in winning championships, not who taught them what. Jim Sorgi could’ve dumped it off to Rhodes and Addai all day long just like PM, or find a wide-open Wayne after a blown coverage.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Brady
Dude, you’re kind of stupid. Really. Brady was the "single most important reason . . "
Over Belichick and the front office? Please. I’m not taking anything away from Brady . . . he’s great.
Did you watch the NFL last year? Brady goes down in thre 1st quarter of the first game and a guy, who hadn’t started a game since HIGH SCHOOL, does pretty well with Brady’s team. Came up “just short” of the playoffs.
Brady’s great and important to the team. Belichick’s a cut above as far as that’s concerned.
Last year proved it. they took a 7th round draft choice who sat on the bench at USC and NE and went 11-5.
Case closed.
BTW: This WHOLE discussion was about coaches and the roles they have played with their teams. If you want to make a straight up comparison between those QB’s, well that’s another story.
No need to call people names.
This back and forth argument is quite amusing… but keep it respectful.
Things will get better as they improve...
RE: No
You’re right. Sometimes I get frustrated. Some people like to argue, just for the sake of arguing, and it gets exhausting.
I Never argue
i have heated debates
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Watch out! It's the cops!
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
I will never slay one of my own.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
That would be an abomination.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
Yes
He’s way more important than those guys cause he actually plays the game! Every coach will tell you it’s on the players to make plays. A coach can’t run a pattern, throw a pass, make a tackle, make a defender miss, etc.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Moss and Welker
Two of the best WRs in the league….that’s why. He’s a system QB, and you’ll see that when he goes to another team. How many teams do you see lining up to trade the house for him? Put him on the Bears and you get another Orton. Look at the numbers, they’re pretty darn similar.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Moss and Welker
Dude. WAKE UP!! You make No sense!!!!!!!
A) Didn’t Brady have Moss and Welker on his offense too?
Answer: YESSSSSSSS
B) The system? Who’s system is it? That’s right. It’s not Brady’s. It’s BELICHICKS!
You make my point for me. Thank you!
Except
Brady hasn’t won a SB with them, but he did with no-name, rag-tag, below average receivers. Thus, his greatness as a QB; Brady would be great in any system. You don’t teach talent like his, so don’t give anything about BB and his system being the reason he’s the best. Here’s a link to actually show you that it’s not BB’s system. Read it and weep Geo.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/New-England-Patriots-strategy
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Except
Brady’s a great player.
BB’s a great coach.
If I had to choose, I’ll take the great coach.
Beyond that, when you say about Brady that “You don’t teach talent like that” actually you’re somewhat wrong.
Brady himself, along with the Pats old QB coach, worked HARD to teach him how to be a better QB.
Beyond that, you said that Cassell was a “system QB.”
Really. According to who? YOU.
There are really only a handful of people who could accurately say how much of Cassell’s season was him or the system or a combination
thereof.
Those would be people like BB and Josh McDaniels. Not you. Sorry
One QB coach helped make Brady?
You proved my point that he didn’t need much tutelege at all to become an elite QB. I’m sure Brady took a ton of reps with the 1st team offense before Bledsoe got hurt (sarcasm). It sure didn’t take him long to figure it out. There’s not much teaching to it when QBs come out of the gates playing well at highest level.
Actually most NFL analysts have said Cassel is indeed a system QB, and teams should be wary about what he’s capable of on a team with less talent.
It’s ludicrous to think those coaches you named were successful because of their fiery demeanor. It had nothing to do with their knowledge of Xs and Os, or based on their experience. It was the stare that motivated them to be champions.
That’s pretty retarded of you to pick a great coach over a great QB. Tell me, when does a coach get on the field? A great QB will make even the most incompetent coach look good, while a bad QB will almost always make a great coach look pathetic.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Yes I call Manning a "choke artist"
When you dominate in the regular season every years and then stink in the playoffs, you are officially a choke artist. Even the year they won the Super Bowl it was because Joseph Addai more then Manning. I like Peyton, he is funny in his commercials, but in my opinion he is by far the second best in the league to Brady, just look at the rings.
Grossman
had a better passer rating in the playoffs the year they went to the SB.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Two separate links
Here’s Grossman’s (73.5)-
http://www.nfl.com/teams/chicagobears/statistics?season=2006&team=CHI&seasonType=POST
Mannings’s (70.5)-
http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/gamelogs?id=MAN515097&season=2006
Sorry, I couldn’t find the same exact page for PM.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Wow...
PM really got hammered in the post-season didn’t he?
Things will get better as they improve...
Yeah
It pretty much debunks any theory about Dungy relying on PM to win his only SB.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Yeah
Dude. You really TWIST things around. I never said that Dungy relied on PM to win his SB. I am very much on record as saying that Manning, at least against the Bears in the SB, didn’t have to do all that much (at least physically).
Manning:
A) Mentally – Called a great game, using runs and short passes to “dink and dunk” the Bears to death.
B) Physically – he pretty much just handed off and threw 5 yards passes. You or I could have thrown those passes.
He (and Tom Moore) “sliced and diced” the Bears to victory in that SB. And the Bears weren’t smart enough to force them to do otherwise.
Now, listen close. You’re just talking about the SB, Im talking about the CAREER. Big difference!
How many HC’s would like to inherit a sure fire, first ballot HOF’er as their first (and turns out ONLY ) QB in their new city?
How many? Answer: Every single HC in th NFL.
Dungy hit the jackpot when he took over the Colts. They had Manning, who had already gone through his first years growing pains, as his QB.
Not only that, but Manning was NEVER injured.
If you’re a HC on a new team, it doesn’t get any better than that! Hopefully, you can follow what I’m saying here.
Same can be said of Gruden and the Bucs
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
He inherited the Bucs, a team that Dungy built.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: He inherited.
Yes, Gruden inherited a good team with the Bucs that Tony had a lot to do with. That’s not what I’m talking about.
I am simply saying that Dungy was extremely lucky to inherit a future HOF’er at the most important position in football.
That sure helped Dungy’s cause in INDY.
Dungy HIMSELF would agree with that assessment.
It's the same thing
So you’re saying one player helped Dungy win a lot in Indy, but he also built that entire team which went on to win a SB in Tampa. I guess Lombardi was lucky to have Starr, Landry was lucky to have Staubach, BB was lucky to have Brady, Knoll was lucky to have a defense of studs, blah blah blah. It comes down to good, solid coaching, and drafting to fit your system.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: It's
I like people that argue things to DEATH. I bet Tony Dungy HIMSELF would be the first to say that having #1 draft pick Peyton Manning was kind of lucky for him.
Starr was a 17th round draft choice. Lombardi helped make him who he was. Brady, 6th round.
It’s a simple comment. Dungy inherited Manning. Lovie inherited Grossman. Who was the lucky one there?
As you know, they say that the QB position is the most important position in the NFL. Most teams are dying for a franchise, 10 year QB.
Tony Dungy inherited one of the best. To say he got “lucky” there is simply a statement of fact.
To say that haviing a franchise, Pro-Bowl type of QB was a big advantage for Dungy, is kind of obvious.
Check mate
You just gave me a ton of ammo by saying Lovie had Grossman, and Dungy had PM. Do you realize you just conceded this argument? This entire debate was about Lovie not being a good enough coach and/or motivator. Well then, how exactly did the Bears get to the SB? Oh yeah, they “caught fire in a bottle with Hester.” Sure he made some great plays and won some games for Lovie, but couldn’t you say the same thing or even more so of Peyton Manning or any great QB? Lovie is at a disadvantage like most NFL coaches, except…he led his team to a SB despite not having an average QB. 40 wins in four years, all without ever having an offense in the top half of the league (1 year in the top-20). Lovie is proven to be a good coach based on concrete, factual, statistical data. That’s something you failed to do in all your rediculous posts. Case closed.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
just like Gruden knew how to counter Oaklands offense
Dungy knew how to counter the Bears defense in that game.
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
RE: Yes
It’s a little more complicated than that. It goes to coaching as much as anything else. Year after year, the Colts struggled consistently with the 3-4 defenses in the playoffs of San Diego, Pittsburgh and New England. It’s hard sometimes as a QB when you are under almost constant pressure.
Saying that Manning is the second best QB in the league and then a choke artist is somewhat of a contradiction.
Manning runs that entire offense. In the SB against the Bears he threw two long passes the entire game; one an interception on his first pass and the TD pass to a wide open Reggie Wayne when Daniale Manning blew the coverage.
The rest of the game either he called running plays and or else “dinked and dunked” the ball down the field. He IS the guy calling the plays, unlike most all other QB’s. You have to take that into account.
That what I'm talkin' bout.
Get us back to the big dance, and bring us a three-peat. You gotta think big here. A dynasty in the making. Rise Chicago, rise!
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
We need the right personnel
I hope lovie plans on getting a playmaking safety otherwise the cover 2 can not be dominant. We have to allow peanut and vasher to mug the line coupled with a pass rush to be successfull. If lovie is allowed to aquire secondary help i believe he can be a very effective shot caller in chicago
That's right Wavy!
I’m feeling good about Cory Graham also. And you are very,very correct about the Safety situation. we gotta get a play maker at that position.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
I call B.S.
Are we to really believe that Babich had complete control of the defense last year? This is Lovie’s defense. If he’s so adamant about putting his touch on the D, why didn’t he do it early last year when they were blowing leads late in games and getting shredded by opposing QBs?
Better late than never Ripper.
Have some faith my man, some faith.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
I wish I had
your optimism. I’m a realist. I look at the Bears and just don’t see a team right now that is a contender. Now, they have free agency and the draft to fill some holes and show us the fans that they are really serious about contending. Unless they are turning a new leaf, they never use free agency well and they can’t draft offense. I just don’t see them being able to fill all the holes on this team with their frugal free agency approach and their inability to get quality offensive talent.
They can't draft offense?
Well…Olsen, Forte, and Beekman are pretty darn good starts, plus Williams should be the real deal if he’s healthy. Although, JA and Lovie didn’t have a good track record until they picked these guys.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
No they can't
Olsen and Forte are the only guys that have the potential to be pretty damn good. .Beekman is not very good and Williams hasn’t even played yet. So you agree they didn’t have a good track record before that? They have laid dozens of eggs with their offensive picks and because they draft 2 guys since 2000 worth a damn that makes them good evaluators of offensive talent?
williams...
… doesn’t have the potential to be pretty damn good?
really?
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Feb 22, 2009 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe
but he’s already not worth the 14th pick by virtue of being out a season, and having back problems is probably the worst injury an OT could have. He is a big question mark. Potential, sure, but a great pick—nope.
DEJESUS!!!
perhaps...
… but that isn’t what McRipper said.
McRipper said that “Olsen and Forte are the only guys that have the potential to be pretty damn good.”
If people think that Williams doesn’t have the potential to be “pretty damn good” simply because he was hurt lsat year, that is pretty funny.
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Feb 22, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
One year is one year
If he becomes a Pro-bowler are you ready to eat your words? I can almost guarantee you he’ll become an impact player this year. I don’t buy that BS about JA drafting him with a “pre-existing” condition. What GM in their right mind would risk that?
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Umm
Come on bro, it happened. You need to buy into that story, because Jerry admitted it. Everyone and their mom knew that C-Will had a pre-existing injury prior to the draft.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
When did he admit it?
I recall JA and others on the staff that he didn’t have one. Do you have an article on it?
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Here you go
Angelo didn’t admit it; the head of the Bears medical staff did.
The last sentence of the block quote.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
Here's what I read...
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2008/08/gm_jerry_angelo_on_chris_willi.html
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
I remember this now...
Here’s the other article on JA’s response. He called it a “stable herniation and normal wear and tear.”
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/chris-williams/2008/08/
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Yeah
do you really believe him when he says that? It was a weird vibe I got….especially when he had the head of the medical staff there. As the article states, that’s weird. And then Jerry was obviously very hostile towards reporters.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
I pushed it deep into my subconscious
I convinced myself that we don’t have a liar of a GM at that time. I would like to know what other players had a similar condition without having surgery. Hopefully, Williams will prove JA right even after his apparent indiscretion.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Exactly
Even though Angelo isn’t trustworthy, I hope that C-Will turns out. I mean, if he doesn’t work out, we’re really screwed on the OL.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
Yep, pretty much
He’s got the talent. It’s going to come down to him staying healthy.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
are you...
… replying to me? I am the one who said he DID have the potential to be “pretty damn good.”
Bringing moderation to a place I don't moderate.
visit the mindful mission
by big_lowitzki on Feb 22, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry, no the other guy
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
You can't evaluate a draft until year three...
Beekman is very young and started, so he’s got to be good enough.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
I don't know how he can run this defense without quality safeties.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that.
We know it's the most valuable position on the football team. We've gone through so many scenarios at that position we can write a book, moreso on what not do."
-- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
.
Maybe he has one on his radar.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
There are a few
who recently became available. Gibril Wilson, Jermaine Phillips, Jim Leonhard, and Sean Jones would all be upgrades. Most of them are more SS than FS, but either way they are better than what we have now.
DEJESUS!!!
I believe they'll address FS in FA
They have to cause there’s no sure thing in draft.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Rashad Johnson
From Alabama wouldn’t be a bad pick in the 3rd or 4th rd. I’ve seen alot of him livin in Bama and it seems like he’s always making plays. He’s not huge or a tremendous hitter but he’s a pretty solid tackler, he’s athletic, and he’s a playmaker.
"URLACHER IS GOD"
I hear ya.
I’m really hoping we can make some serious moves if free agency which we rarely do. But I agree it is a long shot that we can fix everything necessary to be a serious contender. This is Lovies year to make ti happen and I think he is very aware of that. Therefore I am hopeful.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
i guess we're supposed to believe
that now that lovie has all of his cronies in place on his defensive coaching staff, he can run “his defense” cause non of the guys from the tampa 2 fraternity is going to disagree with him
2009 is going to be a nightmare season
Lovie will be gone after next season. There are too many holes on this team to think they can seriously get to anything beyond 5 or 6 wins in 2009.
That's what everyone said last year.
Give them a chance to sign a player or two in free-agency, and go through the draft before deciding their fate.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Lawyer Milloy
is gonna be a FA. He’s got some yrs on him but he’s a veteran leader that could benefit the team. Worth a look dependin on the price
"URLACHER IS GOD"
I don't see them makign a move like that.
Why would they sign an aging veteran, who’s not a prototypical Cover 2 guy, and have to give him at least the league minimum of over $875,000 or so…. when they can just re-sign their own veteran, Mike Brown, for 1 year?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that.
We know it's the most valuable position on the football team. We've gone through so many scenarios at that position we can write a book, moreso on what not do."
-- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
.
What's in the trib? What I said... or what he said?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that.
We know it's the most valuable position on the football team. We've gone through so many scenarios at that position we can write a book, moreso on what not do."
-- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
.
The Lawyer Milloy story
And actually, what you both said is in there (no joke, check out the front-page post).
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
LOL. Just saw it on the other post.
But it didn’t have anything about my league minimum #s :)
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that.
We know it's the most valuable position on the football team. We've gone through so many scenarios at that position we can write a book, moreso on what not do."
-- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
.
Living in denial about the holes and shortcomings of this team won't get you far
A lot of people like to rationalize that the Bears should have won more games than they did in 2008. Whatever. But I don’t know how any objective student of the game could ignore the gaping holes this team has on offense and defense. There simply are too many question marks to address in one offseason, especially with a threadbare free agent pool.
We are actually getting excited about re-signing journeyman John St. Clair to be starting right tackle. That speaks volumes as to the issues facing this team right now.
St.Clair is solid.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
Anything less than
1 playoff win, regardless of record, and Lovie is out. I wonder who our next HC will be…
Things will get better as they improve...
Easy answer
The McCasket family and Ted Phillips love to hire “up and coming” defensive assistants who pass the integrity test and they can sign to a low contract. They will never again hire a "bigger than life’ head coach in the image of a Mike Ditka because it exposed the ownership and the team president. There are striking similarities between Dave Wannstedt, Dick Jauron and Lovie Smith. The next head coach will follow the same pattern.
It boggles my mind......
how some of you can say that Lovie Smith is such a terrible coach. Really, look at our QB situation since he has been the coach. We have yet to have a proven field general. And we have still managed to have some pretty good seasons. Lovie is right, we are close. Last year we were 9-7, one game away from the play offs with a make shift o-line, garbage wide receivers, a rookie running back, an inconsistent underachieving defense and a quarter back competition in training camp. Lovie Smith is damn good coach. Top 10 in the league, easy.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
It depends if you're half-full or half-empty.
Half-full is we almost made the playoffs with crappy players.
Half-empty is we still missed the playoffs, Angelo’s our GM, Babich and Turner are still employed on the Bears, and our supposed great defensive players got paid and didn’t do jack.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
My top 10 coaches: (no particular order)
Jack Del Rio
Bill Belichick
Tom Coughlin
Andy Reid
Mike Tomlin
Ken Whisenhunt
Jeff Fisher
Mike Smith
Tony Sparano
Sean Payton
And there are a few guys who would be on this list if they were current coaches:
Shannahan, Gruden, Cowher
Things will get better as they improve...
Consider this:
Sean Payton has Drew Brees, MVP. Tony Sparano has Bill Parcels orchestrating his team. Mike Smith has Matt Ryan, rookie of the year. Jeff Fisher has Kerry Colins. Ken Whisenhunt has Kurt Warner. Mike Tomlin has Big Ben. Andy Reid has McNabb. Tom Coughlin has Eli Manning. Bill Belichick has Brady and Cassel. And Jack Del Rio doesn’t belong on that list.
Give the Bears one of those QB’s or Bill Parcels. Lovie Smith is on my list easy, working with what he has. Come on.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
by Haightminow on Feb 23, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
payton should not be on this list
the saints defense has top ten talent and sill can’t get it done. i still can’t figure out how the bears have beaten them 3 years in a row(not to mention ’05)
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Beause the Bears are a tougher team that the Saints.
And I agree, Payton does not belong on that list.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
by Haightminow on Feb 23, 2009 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Considering what Lovie has done with what he has had speaks very loud.
About the coach that he is.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
Hey fellas,
great job on the post. We’re already at 122….think we can make it 200?
Argue away :)
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
I don't think
it matters whether you yell or don’t yell. . If people respect you and want to play well for you, it won’t matter whether you yell or not, you’ll get everything out of the guy. If the guy is not a yeller but is a good coach, players will bust their ass because they don’t want to disappoint the coach or make them look bad. If they yell and the player respect them, they’ll bust their ass because they don’t want to get yelled at.
I think Dungy is less than a hall of famer, but it has nothing to do with whether he yelled or not, it has to do with the fact that his game plans in the playoffs didn’t work. He got routinely outsmarted by Bellichek at all. If he yelled til his head fell off and still didn’t come up with the way to adjust his game plan he wouldn’t have any more rings. With as well as they did in the regular season every year he should’ve done better in the playoffs.
Lovie has never been one to get in player’s faces, but when he came here his players respected him and busted their tails. Player were flying all over the field trying to make plays. But something has changed.
People are wondering if he’s too passive now, but it’s only because his approach is no longer working. I fear he has lost the trust and respect of the players. It seemed to happen around the time he ran Rivera out, but I don’t know if that’s coincidence or not
DEJESUS!!!
This is a very competetive league.
Evey team can’t be great every year. The game changes every year with schemes and faster and stronger and smarter players, coaches with new game plans. So coaches have to adapt every year. Lovie will get it together again.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
Amen brother!
Worst to first happens all the time, and the Bears weren’t even close to worst!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Lovie Smith has won 40 games in 4 years
without a competent offense. the only other teams to match that success in that time is Dallas and the Giants who have no questions on offense. Lovie deserves more credit than he has received.
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 2:57 PM CST reply actions
Thats what I'm trying to say.
A couple weapons, serious weapons and we win some super bowls.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
Exactly!
Tell GeoMak this already. I’m tired of hearing his claims without backing anything up without citing statistical data. 40 wins basically says he’s dead wrong!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Exactly
Dude. I’ll say this for the last time. You’re counting the number of wins. It’s just a little more complicated than that. Icould coach a team of HOF’ers. The best coach in the NFL can’t do much with a team full of dogs.
It’s a player’s league. As Dan Hampton (among others) says; If you don’t have the horses, you can’t win the race.
The Bears have had some horses in the recent past. Devin Hester alone, whether anybody wants to admit it or not, was HUGE in 2006 (and not too shabby thereafter).
He did for the Bears in 2006 what Larry Fitzgerald did for the Cards in the 2008 postseason. No way the Bears make Miami in 2006 without Hester. He singlehandedly won two games (Rams & Broncos) and played a big part in others (like the famous Cards game)
Listen Close. I’m not saying that Lovie Smith isn’t a good caoch. He is. To me, however, he’s best suited as a DC, not as a HC.
When guys like Tommie Harris and Brian Urlacher fade out, AFTER signing a big contract, it goes to my central point. Just like when Tillman said that “Houston wanted the game more than us.”
Lovie Smith isn’t capable of getting HIS team to play up to and beyond their capabilities. Period. That’s the hallmark of great coaching. It goes all the way back to Lombardi.
Anybody, that debates this point WITHOUT having read the book “Instant Replay” has no business debating this with me or anyone else.
Instant Replay was written and told from the players perspective (Jerry Kramer). How Lombardi came into GB ( the laughingstock of the league) and through his “force of will” turned a sad sack group of players into the most dominate team of their decade.
Lombardi did this by making almost every one of his players play UP TO, AND THEN A LITTLE BEYOND, their perceived capabilities. That’s what great coaches do.
That’s it. The essence of “The Great HC.” Anyone who debates me or anyone else on HC’ing WITHOUT having read that book, is foolish.
It’s the BIBLE of HC’ing. The beauty of it is that it was written by one of his players, not by a writer or Lombardi himself. A player that (like most of his teammates) HATED Lombardi, until they began to see that there was a “method to his madness.”
Most of the great HC’s, since then, are spiritual disciples of Lombardi. Most. Not all. Most. Like Bill Parcells, for example.
An NFL teams chances of having great success are greatly increased by having such a HC.
Lovie Smith is a good coach. For the Bears to win consistently, they need a GREAT HC.
That’s not Lovie.
BTW: Talking about the merits of NFL HC’s WITHOUT having read that book is kind of senseless. That’s like discussing religion without having read the Bible, or at least having learned about it’s contents.
Your basing everything your saying on one persons opinion.
Jerry Krammer. How is anything you are saying supposed to be such definite absolute based on a book about how one person feels? Your wasting your breath. Your are so adamant that Lovie Smith can’t coach and I hate to say this over and over again but it speaks for itself, he took us to a super bowl 2 years ago and was coach of the year! But he can’t coach?
Lombardi is Lombardi. There was only one. And there will never be another one. Get over it.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: Your
Tell you what. Why don’t you just READ the book. OK. This might shock you, but you actually might LEARN something. Really!
You are using an idiotic line of reasoning . . .what one person thinks or feels.
Albert Einstein and his theory of relativity? Hey, that’s just one mans opinion LOL.
Besides, if you actually read the book you will hear the voices from many players, as well as Lombardi.
BTW: You are putting words in my mouth. I never said “HE CAN’T COACH.” OK. Show me where I said that. What I DID say, is this: “He’s not able to get the MOST out of his collective players.” Period.
But hey, It’s only VINCE F’ING LOMBARDI, who is considered the “father of all modern day coaches.”
Why learn anything about him or how his players thought about him?
Read the book. THEN open your mouth
Lombardi
Ignorant people disparage things without knowing what they are trashing.
Instant replay tells the story of how an unknown NY Giant assistant coach becomes the HC of the worst team in the NFL (the Packers).
How he transforms a bunch of losers into a dynasty.
This is the same guy who, years later, they put his name on the Super Bowl trophy.
The same guy who ALL modern coaches who have achieved a measure of greatness (such as Bill Belichick), are compared to.
The same guy who MOST modern day coaches speak of in reverential tones.
And yet you dismiss him and his players account of how he turned a bunch of dogs into the best team in football.
Smart.
I never dismissed Lombardi!
I said there is only one Lombardi and there will never be another one. I have a ton of respect for Lombardi. Talk about putting words in someones mouth. Your out of control.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: I never
Boy, you kids make it tough. That’s exactly the point, my little friend. Whie it’s true that there was only ONE Lombardi, many of the greatest coaches in NFL history cite Lombardi as a MAJOR influence in their coaching careers.
That’s the whole point.
Beyond that, you disparage the book by making it out to be one players opinion on Lombardi. It’s not. It’s basically a diary of their first year under him. A “behind the scenes” look at how their world was turned upside down by now having Lombardi as their HC.
And how, he then brought them to greatness.. And how those SAME methods work, even today.
Yo Geo,
I have an idea. Because I am trying to do all of the cross-thread keeping up… you should find a link to the book you are talking about so much, and make a fanShot about it.
Sounds like a good read… but give the run down about it in a fanShot
Things will get better as they improve...
RE: Yo Geo
I’d do that, but I’m too stupid. Really. This is a link to the Book at Random House.
It’s a classic book, wriiten by Kramer and Dick Schapp. I read it almost 40 years ago.
To me, it defines the essence of Pro-Football. Any true NFL fan, I think, would like it.
http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl/9780385517454.html
Hey GeoMak, send me a copy and I'll read it. Hows that sound?
But still, by saying that a coach isn’t that good of a coach because he isn’t as good as Lombardi isn’t saying much. Why? because there may never be a coach as good as he.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: Hey GeoMak
I’m not saying he should be as good as Lombardi. Just work the players like dogs, that’s all. Besides, back then, those guys made so little they had to have jobs in the offseason.
Now, even the crappy players are millionaires.
Lombardi is in a class of his own.
Because of him you hardly ever here of Halas anymore unless your a Bear fan. It just seems like your stuck on judging every coach as compared to Lombardi, which is very unfair. How can a coach compare to Lombardi?
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: Lombardi:
The point, to me, is the “Methods” used by Lombardi. All coaches can use those types of methods (if it’s in their personality). I’m not saying coaches today can or should be as great as Lombardi (thoush some like Belichick are close).
Lombardi’s basic premise was that he was going to work his players to death, so that in the fourth quarter, when the other team was getting tired, HIS team wouldn’t. That gave him and his team a huge edge.
One of his favorite sayings was “Fatigue makes cowards of us all.”
His team might lose, but they would defintely be in better shape than the other team.
That and his other methods of motivation (and intimidation) were the hallmarks of Lombardi’s coaching style.
those things won't work on today's players
i see you’re an old school kind of guy which is cool, but come on. there are a lot more prima donnas these days who are out there just for the money. you’re right about Coughlin. he was a tough guy. but you’re wrong about that getting the giants over the hump.
if you remember, Coughlin had to tone down his attitude and how the team practiced in order for his players to respond even when he was a hard ass, it didn’t work on Plax, nor Barber, nor Shockey. Even belichik had to tone down his actions after the Ted Johnson Fiasco. the fact is grown men want to be treated like grown men, not animals.
After all these over-practice related deaths, it would not be a good time to practice such methods. Did you hear about Ereck Plancher? What about Korey Stringer? a lot of those guy’s from that Lombardi era are either dead or just Breathing but not alive.
times change. That book was written before the free agency era. It was written before the revelations of football related deaths. It’s not a bible, It’s a chronicle.
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
RE those things . . .
I never said that Coughlin got the Giants over the hump. Also, I specifically said that management forced him to “lighten up” a little (just like Ram management did with Vermeil). Both those coaches won the SB the year (third) that they “toned it down a little.”
Now, those methods still work. Lombardi never killed a player. Besides, you guys miss the point. It’s not about who yells the most or who makes his team work the hardest .
It’s about discipline and accountability and about motivation. The EXACT things that are missing in places like Dallas, with coaches like Wade Phillips.
As to “does it still work today?” Yes. Why? Cause players, at least any ones WORTH having, want to be pushed hard, both physically and mentally, to be the best player they can be.
Why? So they will win. And go to places like the Pro-Bowl and Super Bowl. To make as much money as they can.
Players WANT to get better. That’s what ex-Buc John Lynch always says: Make me better coach.
You baby these players too much.
i don't baby anyone...
you mention dallas. Can you honestly put the bears in that category? Discipline, accountability, motivation are things that you easily can see they lack. You look at the amount of talent on that team and can see why they were picked by virtually every sports outlet to be superbowl contenders.
yet you say Lovie lacks those intangibles as well, but look at the talent the bears had. last offseason, they had more questions than this offseason: quarterback, runningback, wideout, o-line injured secondary aging linebacker. The fact that the Bears were even in a position to make a run at the playoffs is not just amazing, it showed they were a well motivated team.
Lovie could had just kept everything intact but he didn’t. he took over defensive play-calling like a real leader would do. he never once put the blame on Babich, but himself like a real leader would do. He got rid of the inexperienced position coaches and replaced them with top tier guys. Lovie Smith has put the fortunes of the 2009 Bears team squarely on his shoulders whether good or bad. That, in my world is true leadership quality.
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
RE: I don't baby
I’m certainly not putting Lovie in the class of Wade and Dallas.
I’m not saying Lovie has NO discipline, accountability or motivation.
Just not enough.
Like I said. Lovie’s a good coach. The Bears need a GREAT coach. This is Chicago. The Bears. I’m sick of these underachieving coaches and players.
Someone in another post mentioned the Bears front office. Hiring ex-DC’s like Wannstedt, Jauron and Lovie. Always on the cheap.
Wannstedt was garbage. Personally I actually like Jauron and even Lovie. I just think they need more of a “whip cracking” leader.
Sorry, but that’s my favorite kind of coach. And it’s painful to see one of our own (Mike Singletary) and one of those kinds of coaches, working for another team.
Hopefully, when Lovie’s gone , they will bring in someone who can do more with the players than Lovie could.
Speculation again
You’re throwing these words around without being able to back them up. When did you interview part of the Bears coaching staff and players? Wouldn’t you have to based on your comments of….“not enough motivation, or discipline, and accountibility?” You’re making this stuff up with no qualms. It’s quite infantile, and you should look at yourself in the mirror about lying all the time, especially to yourself. Singletary hasn’t proven anything and you’re comparing him to Lombardi. The latter obviously was the best coach in history, but stop comparing him to current ones. It’s not fair cause you’re comparing apples to oranges. Different times, different people. Half of his “tough love” tactics wouldn’t work on today’s players.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: Speculation
Dude, what’s your problem. This is all my opinion.
It’s my opinion that the Bears are cheap when it comes to hiring HC’s.
It’s my opinion that Wannstedt was garbage (as HC).
It’s my opinion that Lovie doesn’t do enough, when it comes to things like motivation.
It’s my opinion, based of following his NFL career since day one and from CLOSELY following him in SF since he became interim HC, that MS has the essential “Lombardi” like qualities to POSSIBLY be a GREAT HC in the FUTURE.
Unless something can be reduced to indisputable fact here, it’s ALL OPINION here.
Now, as to this comment from you:
Half of his "tough love" tactics wouldn’t work on today’s players.
That’s YOUR opinion. Mine is this. Some players supply their own motivation. These are the exception. That leaves two other kinds: Those that respond to external motivation and those that don’t.
Those that don’t aren’t worth having on your team anyway, so it really doesn’t matter.
Even HOF players like Mike Singletary credit a coach like Buddy ryan for supplying the motivation and discipline necessary to help make him the great player that he was.
Have you ever been to Bears training camp?
Have you ever visited a Bears practice? Have you ever coached at any level of football?
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
by Haightminow on Feb 24, 2009 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Good point Mak
You’re right on with classification of motivation, but I don’t like how you preach on here as if it was scripture….that’s all. Of course there has to be accountibility and discipline to be a successful HC, but not everyone fits the same mold.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Sorry
That’s just the way I am. I respect other peoples opinions but I speak my mind.
I know I piss some people off but what can I say. I don’t try to do that but it happens.
I feel strongly in my beliefs and don’t mind sharing them.
Since Singletary was named interim HC I’ve been following the Niners closely.
I’ve REALLY pissed off some of those people. Especially when they make idiotic comments like “Jerry Rice is the greatest player EVER in the NFL.” Not receiver, but Player!
I know I’m talking to someone clueless when I hear that.
Greater than Walyer Payton? That’s a joke.
Great as he was, Rice benefitted greatly by playing with two HOF QB’s and in Walsh’s innovative WCO.
Payton took a pounding for 13 years.
Rice played in space and suffered little contact compared to Payton. All plays run by Walsh were designed to get Rice open and get the ball in his hands where he could run after the catch.
Payton, especially before the arrival of McMahon, was a marked man: Everybody on the defense (and in the stands) KNEW he was going to get the ball.
You should have seen me arguing this topic with some Niner fans in the past. It was pretty ugly.
Good debate
No problem at all. I can see both sides on Rice and Payton being the top-2 best overall players of all-time, but I’d have to side with Sweetness cause he did it all on mostly bad Bear teams.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Payton
Payton played 13 seasons. His first Pro-Bowl lineman was Jim Covert who was drafted in 1983, and didn’t make the pro-Bowl (I think) until the 85 season.
Payton played almost his entire career without running behind a Pro-Bowl lineman.
That’s why I laugh when people say that Emmitt Smith was better than Payton. That’s beyond STUPID.
Emmitt played with a HOF QB and WR, behind one of the best O-lInes in football, manned by mutiple Pro-Bowlers.
AMEN!!
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 25, 2009 5:31 AM CST up reply actions
honestly
i have never heard anyone bring smith’s name in greatest RB of all time disscusions. To me, it comes down to either Payton or Barry Sanders.
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 25, 2009 5:35 AM CST up reply actions
Walter Payton of course.
But my opinion is biased. Jim Brown could have been one of the best, but he refused to block.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
by Haightminow on Feb 25, 2009 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Easy Turbo, easy. You want to be a tough guy?
I’ve kept this very civil with you which is something I’ve been working on, part of my therapy. You should try and relax a little bit, calm down, count to ten and take some deep breaths. Don’t get me wrong I enjoy doing battle and I am very good at it, I’m undefeated. But I’ve been saving it for my sworn enemies, so I will spare you because you are a fellow Bear fan. But check yourself tough guy. Calling me an idiot could send me over the edge, Bear fan or not, especially since I said nothing to warrant it.
So now Jerry Krammer is Albert Einstein? If you were an Eskimo I’d sell you ice water.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: Easy Turbo
WHAT? I never called you an idiot. That said you (as usual) completely missed the point regarding Kramer/Einstein.
You basically said “how can anything be definitive based on one person’s opinion.”
My point, regarding Einstein, is that often we are left to believe (or not) one person’s opinion.
That’s all.
BTW
If Lovie (a defensive coach) is SO GREAT, then why’d he have to bring in a REAL drill sergeant (Marinelli) to help with his underachieving line? Why’d he have to take playcalling away from Babich? Why all the changes on defense, when that’s his area of expertise?
Phil Simms LOVES Kyle Orton, who played VERY well until the anke injury. The struck gold with Forte. The Bears UNDERACHIEVED on defense last year, moreso than offense.
Then look at the Falcon game. Orton produces a game leading TD drive that SHOULD have won the game (with about 11 seconds left). And then Lovie calls for a squib kick that almost guaranteed Atlanta great field position. And then his “soft’ defense” allowed Matt ryan and easy sideline pass that set up the falcons for a game winnng TD.
They win that game, they are in the playoffs. Except Lovie called for a squib kick. STUPID!
the bears always wanted to bring in marinelli
tampa blocked it from happening
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
Atlanta
I heard or read somewhere that that’s only the THIRD time in NFL history that a team lost when having the lead with around 11 seconds left.
Not good.
We didn't deserve that game.
To little to late.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
I don't buy that
They stayed in the game, battled back, and took the lead with their last drive. They lost because of a poor call, poor squib, and poor coverage on the second to last play. You could say the same things about the Carolina and Tampa game too. They really didn’t deserve to win those games either….the Bears gave them the king.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
RE: We didn't . . .
What the HELL does that mean? We didn’t “deserve” that game. It was almost impossible to lose. What does that mean?
To little to late.
We put together one good drive and expect to win. No. We got beat all over the field, all day, and then we let them get in field goal range with 11 seconds. We didn’t deserve that game.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE:To little to late
Again, you are wrong. No matter HOW you got there, when you have the lead with 11 seonds left you SHOULD win. I’d say so, considering you are only one of three teams to cblow a lead like that in NFL history.
You proving my point on your own!
Exactly, you have the lead with 11 seconds to go you should win, we didn’t. Therefore, we did not deserve to win that game.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
RE: You proving
That’s funny. It really is. Can you imagine if Papa Bear still owned the team, and he got into Lovie’s face and said “What the Hell just happened out there?”
I’m pretty sure Lovie wouldn’t say “We really didn’t deserve to win that game!”
Hey GeoMakAttack, your losing you mind bro.
Listen, I’ve seen this before, it almost happened to me. You need to reverse the cycle of madness that has taken hold of your brain. But don’t trip, this is common with Bear fans. But it is all up to you what will happen from this point. You will either stay in an eternal hating state of mind if you continue hating or you can chose to stop hating and start taking back control of your mind.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
As long as
he remembers that there is no spoon, right?
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 25, 2009 5:36 AM CST up reply actions
BREAK OUT THE RED BULL!!!!
OH! STEWIE!! GET OUT THE WAY BOY! GET OUT THE WAY!
-Stacey King
by ifuwannacrownem on Feb 23, 2009 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
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