Need vs Best available
by scespy12 on Mar 16, 2009 11:52 AM CDT
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PrintAs many of you already know, picking at 18 is relatively difficult as you have the issue of "Does the team pick need or do the pick the best available?"
In our case the need is considerable; OL, DL, WR, FS are glaring needs. With the addition of Zach Bowman and Josh Bullocks to the FS corps and Frank Omiyale to the O- Line we are beginning to see that the pick at 18 is getting to be a mystery.
Excluding trade, I see the bears taking a WR in the first round but if a player such as Malcolm Jenkins or Rey Malulagaaga (or however you say it) is there are they worth the pick?
This FanPost was written by a Windy City Gridiron member, and does not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of its staff or community.
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Draft
If you’re reaching for a need pick, you’re in trouble. I think the Bears have so many needs that they should just take the best player available at any of the positions of “need”. If I’m the Bears GM, I see OL as the biggest need followed very closely by WR. That said, If Malcolm Jenkins is available, I wouldn’t mind seeing them draft him and put him at FS.
Agree
I think the Bears are in for a long season. I hope they prove me wrong, but I just can’t see how this offseason has brought any improvement to last years team.
McRipper
You’re a smart guy as evidenced by this comment: If you’re reaching for a need pick, you’re in trouble.
Reach is the operative word and that’s the part that many don’t understand.
Case in point: In 2007 the AZ. Cards had the 5th pick in the draft. They got lucky when Adrian Peterson slipped to them at 5. So what did they do? They REACHED to get an OT (Levi Brown). Brown was considered the 10th – 15th best player in the draft.
They REACHED!
End result. Peterson is the best RB in the league. Brown was so underwhelming at LT that he was moved to RT.
The Cards (as usual) made a big mistake and F**KED up the Bears in the process. If they take A.P. then he obviously isn’t a Viking.
You’re first sentence is perfect in this post is PERFECT!
Never thought about that...
The cards and adrian Peterson. They may have won the superbowl if they had picked him then.
If I wore a neckbeard I'd be disappointed too.
Thanks!
I remember during that draft the speculation that the Cardinals were expecting that Joe Thomas would fall to them. Most analysts had Quinn penciled in at the #3 pick. I bet Arizona thought they could sit pretty at #5 and take Thomas because Gaines Adams to the Bucs was an obvious pick as well. When the Browns took Thomas, the Cardinals panicked. They probably thought they had to get a LT. Levi Brown was a good prospect but not Top 5 pick good. They should have traded down a couple spots and took Okoye or Willis.
Peterson wasn’t going to be their pick either. Everybody knew he was an incredible talent on the field and he had the tape to prove it. His 40 at the combine was outstanding. Edgerrin James was the reason they passed on him. They had him on the hook for some big money and I guess the Cardinals couldn’t justify paying huge money to the RB position.
RE: Thanks
You are right about everything you say. Here’s the longer version ( I live in Phoenix). Dennis Green, in the three years he was HC, drafted some great players (four of their best in 2004: Fitzgerald, Dansby, Dockett and Smith). he wasn’t much of a coach he but he drafted well.
However, he unwittingly might have cost them A.P. Yearss before ,the Cards drafted huge OT Leonard Davis high in the 1st round. Over the years it became clear that he was actually better at guard than at tackle. Even so, Green refused to play him at guard reasoning that he was as big as a tackle and was being paid tackle money so that’s where he was going to play. It really didn’t work so Davis left for Dallas in FA.
You’re right. The Cards had Edge and now, with the loss of Davis, needed line help. That said, you’re right: they should have traded down OR, IMO taken Peterson. Edge was nearing the end of his career. The best way to improve your line is by having a beast at the RB position and while there are never any guarantees, Peterson fit that bill.
All I know is that Merril Hoge, on ESPN radio, said weeks before the draft that Peterson, when all was said and done, would be the best player taken in that entire draft.
For the Cards to end up taking Brown when they had the 5th pick just shows why they have been so terrible for almost forever.
Green
Was a great evaluator of talent, no question. He was a good coach. He had the 2006 Bears figured before anyone else. He pretty much created the formula that was the Bears downfall that year: Dink and Dunk on offense, pressure Grossman on defense. You would know more about this since you live in the Phoenix area. Like I said, Brown was a good prospect. They just reached on him. He probably should have been in the 10-15 pick range. Hindsights 20/20, isn’t that the saying?
its kind of nice
to have people actually agreeing with each other and complementing somebody for a change:)
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
RE: Green
Green’s biggest problem in Phoenix is that he was pretty much “hands off” and let his staff run things. Maybe he was bored.
The funny thing is that during the SB Rod Graves and the Cards were being applauded for their drafting. That’s ludicrous. Firts, they’ve been drafting in the top 10 for about 100 years now. You should hit on a few under those conditions.
That said, they passed on Urlacher to draft Thomas Jones. TJ, due to having a horrible line and not very good coaching, was a bust in Phoenix and we all know how that one ends.
Years later, with the 6th pick, they could have had local stud Terrell Suggs, who played at ASU and actually wanted to be a Cardinal. Of course, that would be too easy. They traded down with NO and got two first round picks, which they used on Calvin pace (who some thought was a second rounder) and Bryant Johnson.
Pace couldn’t crack the stating line-up at D-Line. They eventually moved him to LB, where he had one good year before departing for the Jets and 20 million in guaranteed money. Even that came back to haunt them cause their best LB (Karlos Dansby) is saying “If Pace got 20 Mil upfront I should get at least as much, cause I’m a better player.” He’s right. Too funny.
Bryant Johnson was a classic underachiever. Instead of having perennial Pro-Bowler Suggs, they took two guys who are no longer even with the team. They did however, do well in the second round when (thanks to Dave Wannstedt’s stupidity), they got Anquan Boldin.
Of couse Suggs and Boldin as a one/two punch would have been a great draft. Alas, it was not to be.
And then Brown over A.P. Like YOU stated, they reached and got burned. They should have traded down or taken the BPA (or the second BPA). Not the 5th or 10th BPA.
My thinking is this.
Our 2 biggest needs are OL and WR. I think we use our 1st round pick for an OLineman, and our 2nd for WR. Reason being, it all starts up front with our big men in the trenches. An immediate starter on the OL instantly improves multi-facets of the offense. An immediate starter at WR only improves the WR position.
If Chris Williams can got his season, and we draft an immdeiate starting OLineman, then we can pick up a 2nd round WR and see what Hester, Bennett, and company can do. This way, if Orton tanks it (which we know he is capable of), or if our WR corp is still weak, we can go after QB or WR in 2010 in the first round.
Hester had decent numbers for a 1st year KR turned WR, and I have to hope that he will be better next season…
Ryan Perilloux in 2010!!
You are right but....
The O-lineman that are worthy of the 18 pick are all left tackles. can you honestly imagine us taking max unger or phil loadholt in the first, but if maclin or DHB or nicks is available at 18 are they worth it and chancing on a Tackle with the second.
If I wore a neckbeard I'd be disappointed too.
Where did you find....
Les Miles with a Bears cap on?
Seriously…..
If I wore a neckbeard I'd be disappointed too.
Lol...
I actually don’t remember where I first saw it, but you can find it on a GIS.
Pretty cool, huh? There are a few different ones floating around out there…
Ryan Perilloux in 2010!!
I don't know
that the Bears are so strong at any position that they can’t take best available and fill a need. Maybe they could skip TE, and they probably don’t need a first day RB or LB. Other than that, is there a position they could take that you’d be like "Oh my God, why did they take a _______ (fill in QB/WR/OT/OG/DE/DT/CB/S.
This team has a LOT of big holes. I don’t think they should be turning their nose down at any position if someone falls to them.
DEJESUS!!!
I'd be pretty pissed off if they took a guard at 18
Considering the first ones will go around the middle second.
If I wore a neckbeard I'd be disappointed too.
I think you have to look at both and more
But Using the pretext of excluding trades and a need to compete this year: Need is really the driving factor.
In reality: you should use a tier-system and take the biggest need of similarly ranked players. If the last 5star player available is a LT and you have a good LT, take him anyway and make a trade.
Trading down
Is what JA loves to do. Now that St. Clair has signed with the Browns, it puts even more pressure on him to “hit” on his picks. If four OTs have been picked, and Maclin is off the board, I think he’ll definitely trade down late in the first, or very early in the 2nd.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
I could see us trading
It the giants our first for thier first and second (they have two seconds) so they pick DHB and we get Nicks and loadholt.
"I am Kyles mom , I support him but I don't believe in him"- GeauxBears
G-men might be a good trading partner
cause they’re in need of a WR as much as the Bears.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
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