NightLink II: Ken Lucas is visiting the Bears
by Chicagosportsfan on Mar 30, 2009 6:40 PM CDT
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Helmet tip: NOR CAL BEAR
Orlando Pace was not the only veteran to visit Halas Hall Monday.
A league source told the Sun-Times that cornerback Ken Lucas also was in for a visit, an interesting development given the situation at right cornerback.
Lucas was cut loose by the Carolina Panthers, who are squeezed for salary-cap room, and could make things very interesting for Nathan Vasher if he is signed. The Panthers released Lucas earlier this month in a move that freed up nearly $2.4 million in cap room. After signing offensive tackle Jordan Gross to a major deal, and with defensive end Julius Peppers counting $16.7 million vs. their cap, Carolina has had to dance around the cap some.
Lucas could start opposite Tillman, or he could be CB depth. If the Bears sign him, I think this would make Vasher expendable, which means Vasher will be traded.
WCG: Lucas would be depth. The Bears are very high on Corey Graham. If Vasher does not get the starting nod or they trade him, Graham would start next to Tillman.
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I said it in the other thread
I said it in the other thread, but this could fix our free safety problem. Just take Tillman, who is actually probably a better fit at FS anyway, and slot Lucas in Peanut’s old role.
Two birds → One stone
Tillman isn't moving
Lovie Smith has come out and said that Charles Tillman is here to be cornerback, period. If the Bears do sign Ken Lucas than it is Nathan Vasher who should be nervous about getting released.
I must say...
that is an awesome picture!
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
Tillman at FS
That talk was dead a long time ago. Lovie Smith said that’s not gonna happen and he doesn’t know where that started.
by Chicagosportsfan on Mar 30, 2009 6:52 PM CDT reply actions
it was started by Dan Hampton as a matter of a fact
Danimal first mentioned making Tillman free safety on his radio show. and several reporters (Mike Mulligan is one if i remember correctly) wrote it up. I also think that move would be dumb. Yeah, coming out of college, Tillman was projected as a corner who could also excel at free safety, bt slide him into that spot, who would be the number 1 corner? if the bears do have another #1, then I’d b all for it
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Mar 30, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually I think then Bears d coordinator
Greg Blanche started that rumor when he was asked what he thought of his 2nd round pick. Blanche said if he couldn’t make it as a corner then he’d still get a great safety. I don’t think that idea should written off so quickly. Lucas/Graham/Vasher battle for 2 corner positions and Tillman moves to safety. Could truly kill 2 birds with one stone.
yeah
thats who Danimal got the idea from. still don’t like the idea. Lucas isn’t even a Bear so we’re thinking way too far ahead
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Mar 30, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Thanks
Thanks HoneyBear, google is my friend. I wanted to find the best picture for this post.
by Chicagosportsfan on Mar 30, 2009 6:53 PM CDT reply actions
Eh
I dunno how I feel about this. Lucas is good but is he better than Vasher? I thought Graham was pushing for the starting spot opposite Tillman. Depth is good but we still have Tillman, Graham, McBride, Vasher, and Manning.
"The phone's for you, I think it's the Devil."
Are we giving up on Vasher too soon?
He sucked last year but he was great in 05 and 06. Could last year’s sucktitude have been related to coaching/scheme? They left the corners alone on a ton of islands last year.
It could have to do with...
The fatty contract he signed before the star tof the season too.
I don’t wantr to give up on #31. I think he can play, he just needs to play better this year or he is gonzo.
yeah
I think Vasher can still be an elite corner. I feel he needs to be given a second chance. he’s clearly one of the better cover corners in the league.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Mar 30, 2009 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
if Vasher wants to be an elite corner
he needs to be healthy. He needs to play on a high level consistently and most importantly, he needs to learn man coverage. He has all the skills, but lacks the desire to be great. That reason alone, tells me that it may be time to move in a different direction. Is Lucas the answer? Hardly.
How do you know that he lacks desire?
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
by Haightminow on Mar 31, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
when an overrated corner gets paid big money
and winds up hurt … all. the. time. It seems like he lacks desire IMO. Granted opinions are like a$$holes and everyone has one, but to me Vasher needs to get healthy and stay healthy. right now, he has all the durability of a graham cracker.
Why does he need to learn man coverage...
we play the Tampa 2 and that has zone coverage?
21% of the time
the Bears ran the cover-2 last year. He definitely needs to be able to play man effectively.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
where did you get that?
i love that type of data.
i have always heard them say they only run the 2 about 30%, that was a couple years ago.
also, as i have always understood and played in the cover-2, the hard requirement was the corners on the line to jam, is the tampa-2 different in that sense? I have never heard that it is but I have seen it described by “experts” several different ways. that would jive with what we saw since tillman was seemingly always off the line, so they were barely running the 2.
of course, if they are running a tampa-2 but putting CBs off the line to make up for LBs blitzing I guess they may still call it cover 2, but to me, its not unless the CBs are jamming. I’ve never looked deep enough into how the coordinators distinguish things to know for sure.
What is everyone else seeing
in Corey Graham that I am not seeing? Every time I see him, he’s giving up 15 on 3rd and 9.
Insert clever and witty remark slash pun here!
UMD 8/04 - 5/08: Go Terps!
It always seemed like
The opposing QB’s read went like this:
1. Find Corey Graham
2. Throw
(stolen shamelessly from footballoutsiders)
Insert clever and witty remark slash pun here!
UMD 8/04 - 5/08: Go Terps!
That's funny and I recall seeing the same damn thing.
There’s such thing as a cushion and then there’s what I like to call a California King. I think Vasher can redeem himself this year and for the love of God, maybe our DL will sack-up and knock the opposing QB’s on their asses.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Mar 30, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
if you can't generate a great pass rush
(and i don’t know that we can – even if marinelli is great, i just don’t see our front 4 wreaking havoc), you cover the hell out of the other team. tillman is good. vasher certainly was good before the injuries. graham…i dunno, wasn’t THAT impressed. lucas was certainly a very good DB, though. if we bring him in, my guess is graham might move over to FS (i recall many saying that might be a good position for him before), and tillman, vasher, and lucas battle it out. maybe those will be our 3 main DBs, with manning as the nickel. maybe more 5 DB sets next year. i mean, we’re great against the run, but get shredded in the passing game, so why not get really good in the secondary? and given our history, you know somebody’s gonna get hurt, anyway.
I think we're gonna see
a significant drop in sacks from the entire league this season due to the Brady rule. i might be wrong though
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Mar 30, 2009 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think it will
Defenders won’t be concerned about getting a penalty; they’ll still play with reckless abandon and without a care.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Unless Vasher...
is used in a trade to get Cutler, I think we need to letrthe guy play for his spot. He has game, just needs to stop spending his $$$ and play some Bears D.
he might have game
but he can’t stay healthy. that and whenever he is healthy, he has to deal with a defensive scheme that has him playing 10 yards off every receiver.
by guy incognito on Mar 30, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
That's scheme problems...
even if we had Nmandi Asomugha as our corner, so you can’t blame Vasher. Hopefully Lovie does better in that regard, well he sure can’t do worse.
scheme
I do think that it was 1/2 about the scheme and 1/2 about players not playing up to their potential. The Tampa 2 defense is crap. that’s why everyone is getting out of playing it except the bears. Tommie Harris is not what he used to be since the injury, and Urlacher is getting old. you have to have significant pass rush from the front 4 Tampa 2 is going to work. A good quarterback will find the holes in the cover 2 anyway, and that’s what you will find in the playoffs. We need another scheme, because with the players we have Tampa 2 won’t work.
by Bears-Bullsfan on Mar 30, 2009 10:29 PM CDT reply actions
scheme and a stubborn coach
I agree about the scheme, but the bigger problem is Lovie’s stubborn attitude. He will not admit that the scheme doesn’t fit his roster anymore and that the rest of the league has caught on to it. He is a terrible game coach and not creative at all. Sticking with any scheme for this long and not making significant changes will make any roster look worse each year they use it. He took this idea from Dungy, who at least made some changes to it in Indy, but doesn’t seem to come with any new wrinkles on his own. I’ll be glad when he finally goes the way of Wanny and Jauron.
One of Two
If one of two things hapen at CB we’ll be ok.
1.) Vasher has the injury bug behind him and he’s back to form
or
2.) Graham shows that he can develope some FBI and knows where he should be on any given play.
Signing Lucas would be an embarassment of riches and be a great insurance policy for whoever will inevitably get banged up as the season progresses.
The injury bug isn't Vasher problem.
It’s that quarterbacks aren’t throwing balls directly to him anymore. Go back and look at his interceptions. I’d say that at least 75% of them are balls thrown directly to him.
There was an incident a few years ago. The Bulls were killing the Knicks, scrubs were playing out the clock, and the fans were screaming at them to score 100 points for free Big Macs. They took a ton of shots, Knicks took offense and they tried to fight some Bulls players.
by Ozzie Montana on Feb 19, 2009 5:25 PM EST
i dunno about that
vasher was a pretty damn good coverage guy. yeah, the interceptions were nice, but at the very least (until times this past season), whenever he played, his man was going to have to work really hard to have a good game. this past season (when healthy), not so much, though i think the cover-2 made everyone look horrific this year since our d-line couldn’t create any pressure.
by guy incognito on Mar 30, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Lucas played well for the Seahawks
Living in the Pacific NW I got to see a lot of Lucas when he was withe the Seahacks and I like what I saw – he would be a fine addition to the Bears.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
if we sign him...
…let the best man win- at this point what can it hurt Interceptor needs to get his game back and avoid the bug, Lucas just provides competition and proven depth.
Hello?
to jbasic89:
Unless they don’t have print media on your home planet you could have easily read the weekly injury reports, ie: Vasher was out for multiple games for the past two years. He was not malingering or faking but dealing with a whole plethora of injury problems. What? Did they bench him for hanging dirty pictures in the Locker room? Was he kept out of all those games because it was revealed he was moonlighting as a Beer Vendor during Half Time? If you had any insight into the coaching changes you might notice that Hokie will not send players out on the field that shouldn’t even have been suited up in the first place! To make a statement like “Injuries where not Vashers problems” might lead people to believe that your not smoking “store bought”.
And Please! … don’t start conjuring up numbers and statistics to promote your opinion.
Touche' to you Pete
Everybody has their own opinions, but to say 75% of a player’s INT’s were passes thrown directy to him is ingnorant. You’re pretty much saying that the player got to the NFL, and was successful based on luck and minimal skills. I strongly disagree w/ that. Another thing I disagree w/ is people saying that since Urlacher, Harris, Vasher, and others got their “pay day”, they’ve pretty much given up playing to their fullest abilities. I think if that were the case, if these players were SO infatuated w/ money and only money, none would be doing all the charity work they do. Just my opinion, like I said everyone has their own.
"The phone's for you, I think it's the Devil."
Right place at the right time
I agree, it’s called being in the right position and knowing your assignment.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
knowing your assigment
is/was probably one of the biggest problems last year in the secondary. Knowing where you’re supposed to be on the field and who you’re responsible for is clearly the key to success there. Too many times corners and safeties were beat and had that “I thought you had him” look on their face.
If Lucas signs, then Vasher is cut
That’s got to be how this unfolds.
If thats the case
try to pawn off Vasher for a draft pick somewhere.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
well, if teams know he's gonna be released
why give up a pick for him?
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
I think
there are still 2 or 3 other threads here where you haven’t said this.
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Mar 31, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
No one will take Vasher in a trade
He’s got a huge salary and has underperformed the past 2 seasons. Why would a team want to trade picks for a big contract of an underachiever?
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