Cutler deal a great value?
by propheteer on Apr 4, 2009 6:04 PM CDT
121 comments
via www.giftsandfreeadvice.com
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Larry Mayer's chalk talk breaks down the trade between Chicago and Denver in terms of the numeric point system. Looking at the values between Cutler (doesn't include the 5th rounder in return) vs. Orton plus draft picks, clearly show the Bears came out ahead of the Broncos based on Cutler's pro-bowl ability, and seemingly #1 pick overall status. Here's my calculation of the total points for both teams, and quote from Larry showing his seal of approval.
Plus I’d much rather have a proven commodity who still has upside and can get better like Cutler than rely on unknowns in the draft. The money under the salary cap the Bears will save by not paying two first-round picks is also a huge positive moving forward.
Bears - 3000 points (Cutler as the overall #1 pick in this year's draft)
Broncos - 2,340 points. 900 points for this year's 18th pick, 170 for 84th pick overall, and 850 for next year's #1 pick, which I estimated to be the 20th pick overall (Bears making the playoffs as the worst wild card team). As far as Orton, it's difficult to determine where he would go in this months draft. I'd determine he'd be worth at least a middle second round pick. That would give Denver an additional 420 points for Neckbeard.
Thus, through my eyes as well as Mayer's, the Bears got the better of this deal. What does everyone think?
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way too early to tell
if you want reassurance based on points go ahead. But the only way to truly know who got the better deal is to wait 4-5 years and see how Cutler develops and how Bronco’s draft picks develop…
by JohnnyTruant on Apr 4, 2009 6:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, way too early
This can be one of those trades where no one overpaid, but until we not only see what Cutler can do, but what Orton does, there’s no real way to tell. I like the trade in theory but I also would have been happy with Orton finally getting a chance to be the starter from day one. I hope he does well in Denver, he seems like a good guy.
by BearFan611 on Apr 5, 2009 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bears Got this One.....
The Bears got actual value out of this trade due to the fact that Cutler is a proven commodity. Denver now have the opportunity to grab some product players, but until then they with be labeled player with potential. So until this Denver coaching staff turn those picks from the Bears in to quality Pro Bowl players, which will be several years from now. The Bears, immediately are winner of this trade.
by Soloistic on Apr 5, 2009 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I think the point system is a bunch of crap. That being said, based on the amount of first rounders that actually pan out every year. The odds that Angelo actually drafts something that would have made a contribution is prob 2 in 5. For the money that a first rounder is paid I think I will pass on those odds and take Cutler 10 out of 10 times.
"Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. "---George S. Halas
by Halas is God!!!!! on Apr 4, 2009 8:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Point system a bunch of crap?
Don’t tell that to Jimmy Johnson. He built a dynasty with point system he created.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 4, 2009 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its only Accurate
if you make the correct picks. Otherwise point values are worthless.
"Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. "---George S. Halas
by Halas is God!!!!! on Apr 5, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton's Value was less in this Trade.
Actually the value for Kyle Orton was a 5th round draft pick. And for a Pro Bowl QB with 3 yrs of NFL experience and a high ceiling cost the Bears two number ones. For a guy like Cutler, two #1s is the usual going rate for a stud at his position.
However, I take the 3rd round pick as the knock out punch to beat out other bidders for Cutlers. That’s usually how a trade like this happens, you have to throw in another piece to out bid your competition. So the Bears didn’t over pay, especially when just about every team was prepared to give up two 1st round picks. Detroit may been able to have done less with the 1st overall, which has more weight on Jimmy Johnson’s joke of a point scale.
Nevertheless, Orton who still has some ceiling left to be respectable passer in this league was another factor in this trade. Last year, Orton wasn’t preventing teams from staking the box. But, I don’t want to marginalize Orton efforts, because he was someone I’d rather have at the helm when true bona fide Pro Bowl QBs are elusive to this club, like it has been for decades around Halas Hall. Before this trade I was satisfied with Orton possibly taken the next step to get the Bears into the playoffs, but not sure if he was the final answer.
by Soloistic on Apr 5, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the trade was first announced
I thought my god we really gave up a lot. But when you look at who those players were going to be ( maybe Britton, a #22 pick next year and a third rd pick – Garrett Wolfe??) how could we not make this deal? We got a star player out of this and a guy who can lead us to the playoffs every year. We haven’t had that guy in 50 years?? Think how nice it is if you are the Colts/Pats/Steelers. Great Qb and they are in the mix every year. It is a great deal for us. Does anyone remember Brady’s wr in their early superbowls?? Their best wr was Troy Brown? I think we have one of those..
by tfrabotta on Apr 4, 2009 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it’s too early to tell, and that will take years, but I think right now I like what the team did. Also take into consideration that the Bears are bad with first round picks historically and would be paying someone very possibly that would do nothing in terms of the money they receive i.e. Michael Haynes, Cedric Benson, Marco Columbo (need I continue)?
The third rounder to me isn’t much since we just received a compensation pick from the league for losing Berrian last off-season.
by Twins Territory on Apr 4, 2009 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you call into to the Score a few days ago and break out the point system? LOL.
I highlighted the same point system info a couple days ago in this post, based on a caller’s topic on the 670 The Score.
We did come out ahead on point value… and, the only pick we’re really “giving up” is next year’s 1st. With the 18th overall pick in 2009, the Bears selected Jay Cutler. We traded away the 2009 3rd round pick, but we also happen to have a 3rd round comp pick for Berrian. So, we still get to draft somebody in that round… in addition to the 5th round pick the Broncos gave us.
Next year’s 1st round pick is the only one we’ll “miss.”
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 4, 2009 9:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't care what anyone says
when you get a pro bowl QB for an average QB and a bunch of unknowns I think you win.
And if Cutler doesn’t play well here then you gave it your best shot and you move on to rebuilding.
Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you.
by SoulEater7 on Apr 4, 2009 9:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Cutler doesn't play well here
Then it is because of one of two reasons. First, we didn’t give him the weapons necessary. Listen, every Bears fan is afraid this could be the situation. We’re thin at wide out and maybe not even Cutler can make up for that. But if we are that weak at wide out then a good GM should have anticipated that BEFORE he made the trade and grabbed a good free agent (Holt anyone) or stock piled draft picks. So if Cutler stinks and wide outs are the reason, FIRE ANGELO, a good GM should know better. Or Cutler doesn’t play well for reason #2. Our system sucks and Turner is a joke. If this is the excuse then Lovie should have saw this coming and HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED. Either way, if this move proves questionable, HEADS NEED TO ROLL!! That said I think this was a good move, but NO MORE EXCUSES!!!
by Just Dave on Apr 4, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see this a little differently
Cutler should be here for the next 10 years and should make the weapons we now have better. Between the draft and FA this year, next year and each year thereafter we can address the need for receivers.
I think the biggest factor here is Hester. He’s an explosive player and now we have a QB that almost can outthrow him.
Cutler’s arm and Hester’s speed will allow the Bears to stretch the field which opens things up for the entire offense.
With a franchise QB in place, this offense should get better and better each season.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can just
see it now. Cutler launching his 70 yard missiles to Hester whos streaking down the sideline past the defenders and the ball drops right in his arms every time. Its a dream sequence i keep imagining and Im gonna drive myself crazy thinking about it till i see it happen on the field.
"Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. "---George S. Halas
by Halas is God!!!!! on Apr 5, 2009 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Turner and Cutler and Hester
can’t figure out how to make that work they should all get their asses kicked.
I mean, there are NO more excuses now. Everybody’s been saying “If we only had a top-flight QB.” Well, they got one now.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turner
is the only problem in that equation. Hes got some time now to rack his brain and figure out how to run a real offense.
"Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. "---George S. Halas
by Halas is God!!!!! on Apr 5, 2009 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday
I wrote a fanpost entitled “Back to the Future . . . Scoring Points in the Cutler Era.”
Basically, the premise was that the 85 Bears led the NFC in scoring with 456 points. The defense and special teams accounted for 48 points which means the offense scored 408 points, or 25.5 points a game.
The Bears offense was run by Mike Ditka and Ed Hughes. Both good coaches but neither one was ever considered a genius (LOL).
Regarding the skill positions, it breaks down like this:
QB: 85 Bears had Pro-Bowler Jim McMahon. 2009 Bears have Pro-Bowler Cutler.
WR: The 95 Bears had burner Willie Gault and the current Bears have Hester.
Possesion Reciever: The 85 Bears had Dennis McKinnon. He was Great. The current Bears need this type of player (Anquan Boldin would KILL here)!
TE’s: The 85 Bears had Moorehead and Wrightman. The current Bears have Clark and Olson.
RB. The stats between the incomparable Walter Payton in 1985 and rookie Matt Forte in 2008 are pretty similar:
Payton: 1,551 yards on 324 carries for a 4.8 avg. & 9 TD’s and a 40 yard long play.
Forte: 1,238 yards on 316 carries for a 3.9 avg. & 8 TD’s and a 50 yard long play.
I’m certainly not making a direct comparison here. Still, the current team (now with Cutler) is far closer to the 85 team than even last years team.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turner is Crap
I’m surprised you didn’t respond with that.
by sirus19x on Apr 5, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really Geo
I think the biggest factor is Actually Greg Olsen. this guy has all the tools that are required to make him the best tight end in the league. he has the best hands on this team, he’s big, strong and fast, and he can one on one with linebackers, cornerbacks, and safeties.
I expect Olsen to be the best tight end in the league next season. I think he’s progressed faster than Devin hester has
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 7:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just silly
I like Greg Olson too. But he has a quite a ways to go to reach the status of some of the best tight ends in the NFL.
by BLou on Apr 5, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's already reached that status
but you misunderstand. I EXPECT Olsen to be the best tight end in the league next season. I could be wrong, but Antonio gates became the best tight end in the league in the span of a year.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Olsen was already in the top-10 in TEs this past year. Now with Cutler, and an improved WR corp, he should take the next step into the top-5.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 5, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
other reasons he could fail
If what we’re hearing about his decision making, especially in the Red Zone, continue and he costs us a couple of games because of that, then he’ll be run out of town by the fans and media. Especially if Orton is doing well. Hopefully, that won’t happen, I’d like to see the kid succeed and I’m looking forward to the season. I do agree, though, that whatever might happen to make the Bears fail to reach the playoffs, Lovie and crew have no more excuses. I’m not sold on our coaching staff top to bottom.
by BearFan611 on Apr 5, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only 25
He’s obviously still developing, and many QBs struggle in the red-zone. One thing is for sure he’ll get his chances running the ball on bootlegs, and possibly options as well.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 5, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's pretty simple
Leaving aside Denver, the Bears gave away Orton (who they didn’t need anymore and had little trade value). They lost a 3rd but they have an extra 3rd, so that’s not a big deal.
JA and really most teams are pretty close to 50/50 in the first round. The 1st round is the utlimate crapshoot. These guys get a lot of money guaranteed and only about half pan out. I think that there’s a correlation there also. I think some guys cash their big paycheck and automatically lose some of their desire to succeed.
It’s human nature. If any of us went to start a new job and they wrote us a huge check before our first day, when might lose some motivation too.
If the Bears are 50/50 on 1st round picks, that means that when you combine 2009 and 2010, we would be expected to draft one impact player and one bust/underachiever.
We simply packaged those two picks and got us a guaranteed impact player. Not only that, but we don’t have to pay two #1’s a lot of guaranteed money before we even know if they can play.
If the Bears had kept those two #1’s, they might have ended up with two studs, two busts, or one stud and one bust.
They took the safe route and got one guaranteed stud, who happens to play the most important position on the field.
This would have made no sense if Cutler was an aging player. As it is, Denver took all the risk in 2006 and then, had Cutler learn under Mike Shanahan for three years before giving him to us.
Thank you.
It’s a no-brainer. Really.
by GeoMak on Apr 4, 2009 10:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah
Bears win this no matter what. It’s a shot in the arm and they look better PR wise. They still have 8 picks.
Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you.
by SoulEater7 on Apr 4, 2009 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Bears gave up too much
since all that all it took to get Cassel was a second. But in the end it’s gonna help us anyway. I’m tempted to say that the Broncos got the better end of the deal with Orton thrown in, but I can’t make that assessment until I see how the draft picks shape out. theirs and the Bears.
If we get a player that (WR) that has the same value as a 1st, then Bears definitely.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 4, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You really can't compare the Cassel situation.
He had a huge cap number (14 Mil) and the Patriots didn’t want a top 10 pick or even a first rounder. They were happy with a high second because it cost them less money and they draft well enough throughout the draft.
It really doesn’’ matter what Denver does. Even if they turn the two Bear picks into Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus, who knows who the Bears would have drafted with those same picks.
Leave guys like Manning and Brady and McNabb out of the equation. Those guys are all (approximately) ten year vets. We got one of the best young QB’s in the league.
These #1 picks are somewhat overrated. In 1988 the Bears let their best player, Wilber Marshall go to the Redskins for two #1’s. Marshall was a stud who helped Washington win a SB. We ended up with Wendell Davis and Donnell Woolford. Two good players.
I’d rather have one great player than two good ones.
by GeoMak on Apr 4, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm saying is
anyone that picked up Cutler gave up too much. but, if we get a WR with the picks that we have and he turns out to be a good pick, then it’s a moot point. our first round pick would have undoubtedly been a WR, as long as he is a good pick, I care not.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the cassel deal
was made between friends too. I mean Pioli got a bargain basement deal for cassel from his buddys back in New England who didnt need him anyways. The two deals arent comparable.
"Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. "---George S. Halas
by Halas is God!!!!! on Apr 5, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In semi-related news...
I’ve discovered that Cutler’s agent, Bus Cook, also represents Ken Lucas.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Also... the Bears hosted 4 prospects at Halas Hall this week.
Anthony Scirrotto, S, Penn State
Aaron Brown, RB, Texas Christian
Ellis Lankster, CB, West Virginia
Jason Chery, WR/KR, Louisiana-Lafayette
All four of these guys are likely to go undrafted.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 4, 2009 10:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think trades are like drafts
you can’t accurately score who won or lost for a few years.
However, I see this as a win for the Bears. Sometimes, in order to get what you really want and need you have to overpay the market value. Somethings are just worth more.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 4, 2009 10:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you want something you've never got
you need to do something you’ve never done.
by Just Dave on Apr 4, 2009 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what I was going for
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Apr 4, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they overpaid
The essence of this trade was the two #1’s. Look at it this way. If they wanted a "franchise type of QB, they probably would have had to spend a #1 (like Denver did in 2006).
Vince Young and Matt einart were both drafted before Cutler.
Would you throw in an extra #1 to ensure that your #1 pick could actually play and even make the Pro-Bowl? I sure would.
I’d rather spend two #1’s and get a young, Pro-Bowler than spend one #1 and have a guy that’s glued to the bench (like Young and Leinart).
Any team that has drafted Cedric Benson, Michael Haynes, David Terrell, Marc Columbo, Cade McNown and Curtis Enis in the 1st round shouldn’t lose any sleep over sending two of those picks for a young stud at the most important position in the game, a position sorely lacking in Chicago since Jim McMahon.
by GeoMak on Apr 4, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cost their new team
A #1, a #3, a #6 and was given a $45 million dollar contract for 5 years?
Roy Williams going from Detroit to Dallas
And what did Dallas get for that?
19 catches in 10 games. 198 yards and 1 TD!
That’s pathetic. Yeah he’ll do more this year without TO, but still? A 1,3 and 6?
Compared to Jerry Jones, JA looks like Albert Einstein.
.
by GeoMak on Apr 4, 2009 11:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor Chicago
After next years stats when Orton throws for 3800 yards, 24 td’s and 11 picks, and Cutler throws for 2700 yards 16 td’s and 18 picks….will Chicago be willing to give us 3 more draft picks and Cutler back? lol(we’ll give them Orton).
Plummer came to Denver and went from horrible to one of the higher yardage qb’s in the league. Portis was heading to be the next Barry sanders here, went to Washington and has been slightly above average….it has a lot to do with the system folks. Cutler has a very very strong arm, beyond that he’s not much more than a whiny punk, and his decision making wasnt all that great when he had 20 minutes in the pocket to survey everything, imagine the boneheaded mistakes he’s going to make with that Chi line that lets someone thru every down, and Pace is beyond injury prone, and getting older(bad combo).
He’s being crowned the best Chi QB since McMahon( maybe ever) and he hasn’t even put on a uniform yet? ROFL. NFC…AFC….night and day….KC’s defense and Raiders, even SD….thats cotton candy compared to what Little baby Jay’s going to see in the black and blue NFC…enjoy the hype, enjoy the rocket passes in mini camp, enjoy the buzz Chitown, when you guys wake up…sometime in October or November and your record is 4-5, and your “leader” is crying, and or asking to be traded, please stop talking about this nonsense that Cutler is anything more than an average QB, with poor poor decision making skills, and above all a cry baby.
by Nugs09 on Apr 5, 2009 2:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
childish and bitter?
I’d say you’re jealous.
Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you.
by SoulEater7 on Apr 5, 2009 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice try...
First, you’re making this argument based on a system you don’t run anymore. Shanahan’s gone. Second, we actually have a running game and a defense that Denver couldn’t touch in that last few years. More options, better field position, less pressure on QB. And third, if that’s what you think of the NFC North, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. You better hope that McDiapers is the second coming of Bill Walsh ‘cause it looks to me like the guy just blew up your franchise before even coaching his first practice. I’m sure he’ll work wonders with the defense though. Enjoy being the doomats of the AFC West!
by waywest on Apr 5, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure the rest of Denver feels as relieved as you do.
by Spongie on Apr 5, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck
with Orton and that rediculously difficult schedule next year. Cutler won’t be overused in Chicago like in Denver cause we actually have great special teams, and a good running game.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 5, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plummer
wasn’t horrible. He led the downtrodden AZ. Cardinals, not only to the playoffs, but to a playoff beatdown in Dallas against the Cowboys in 1998.
I live in Phoenix. I know all about Jake (the good, the bad and the ugly).
I stopped reading when you made that idiotic claim (Plummer went to Denver and went from horrible . . . )
Your problem is that you really don’t know what you are talking about!
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 2:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
And his comment on Portis being “slightly above average” with the Redskins. Portis set the Redskins franchise record for rushing yards in a single season in 2005, with over 1,500 yards, and went to the Pro-Bowl last year with 1,487 yards.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 5, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness, though
Perhaps setting a franchise record for rushing yardage in a single season and being a Pro Bowler is only “slightly above average” in his books. He is, after all, speaking from the perspective of the run-heavy Broncos.
Ahem.
by Spongie on Apr 5, 2009 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With all due respect...
I’m glad you guys got Cutler. I was really hoping the Vikings would get him… but I’m glad they didn’t based on what you guys gave up for him. I think Cutler with the Bears makes your team a potential playoff team. Cutler with the Vikes would’ve been a superbowl caliber team. The Bears still have quite a few holes. But Cutler should be your QB for the next 10 years, and that is one thing you won’t have to worry about. And Forte is a stud. Not as good as Peterson (the real Peterson, not the wanna be!:) But you guys have no receivers, and a suspect line. Pace was a good pick up, but how long will he last? Rams cut him for a reason. And he is too slow to stop Jared Allen. If you guys pick up Holt, your offense will be pretty good. I might even go so far as to say scary. But your defense is not what it was when you made the superbowl. The way I see it is you have quite a few holes to fill in the next few years, and no good draft picks to do it with. Like I said, I’m jealous you guys got Cutler. But in all due respect, we are still the NFC North champs, and will be until de-throned. I honestly hope the Vikings don’t go too far into the playoffs this year. Childress will be fired, and either Cowher or Shanahan will come in and they will add a QB. A new coach and a good QB and the Vikings will be one of the best teams in the league, bet on that.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 5, 2009 3:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
vikings won one more game
and have been a non factor for their entire existence.
by mike b on Apr 5, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you're assuming that you'll be able to keep your core team together.
Your star players contracts will expire, and you’ve been a big FA player with huge salaries against your cap. Your house of cards will come tumbling down unless you can win a Super Bowl before Adrian Peterson cashes in as a free agent when his rookie contract expires and you have no money to pay him without cutting some key players.
by BigGeorgeTX on Apr 5, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
with one of the best front offices in the league...
All of the Vikings big contracts are front loaded, so they don’t count very much against the cap the following years. Stay off of Madden when trying to talk football.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 5, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AP
Why does every Viking fan have to say AP is better than Forte? Of course he is, everyone in their right mind knows this. Please leave your insecurities at the Daily Norseman if you’re going to come to WCG and make elementary observations. The Bears may have a few holes, but the Vikings have one BIG hole at QB.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 5, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See
this is what kills me. "no good draft picks?’ That’s ridiculous.
Devin Hester – 2nd round
Lance Briggs – 3rd round
Matt Forte – 2nd round
And on and on.
Respectfully, you are like a lot of people. You make it sound like the Bears giving away two #1’s has crippled this franchise. That’s absurd.
The 1st round is the most overrated thing in sports. It really is. At best, it’s 50/50!
Here are some of your recent 1st rounders:
Kenechi Udeze
Troy Williamson
Erasmus James
Chad Greenway
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see any HOF’ers in that group.
BTW: Forevemore, give thanks to the stupidity of the Arizona Cardinals. They had Peterson fall into their laps in 2007 at #5, only to reach and take underachieving OT Levi Brown.
No receivers? Watch Hester this year. For a guy who’s only played the position one year, he didn’t do too badly last year. Watch him this coming season with maybe the strongest armed QB in the NFL.
BTW: The Bears four top receivers last year were two TE’s, a RB and a WR. I think they averaged 9 something yards a reception.
The Bronco’s? Their four top receivers were mostly Wideouts. And yet, they only averaged something like 12 yards a reception.
The point. For all the talk about the great WR’s of the Broncos, they only did slightly better than the Bears collection of Hester and TE’s and RB’s!
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 3:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You just made an excellent point
Cutler with much better receivers didn’t do that much better than Orton with below average WR’s.
Let me put it this way. If you use Cutler’s stats and multiply them with the number of times Orton threw the ball, Cutler’s stats would look like this:
3417 yards. ( 445 more yards)
19TD’s ( 1 more TD)
13 INT’s ( 1 more INT)
All I’m sayin is that I didn’t think Orton was that bad for you guys last year. I really didn’t see a need to trade away your future for a QB who is a little better.
You wanna talk about draft picks that’s fine… but leave Udeze out of it bro. He has cancer. Sorry he couldn’t play last year. Guess when you have cancer, that makes you a bust?
And I’m watchin Hester. He has shown glimpses of greatness. So has Tarvaris Jackson. Does that mean Jackson is a top-flight QB? Nope. Does that mean Hester is a top-flight WR? Nope.
I love the Cardinals for passing on AD. Just as much as I love the other 5 teams who passed.
Don’t mean to burst your bubble bro. Just pointing out facts/stats.
But I guess Cutler has what it takes to win the big games when in really counts…
Like a playoff game ( O wait, he hasn’t won one of those yet huh)
Of a bowl game in college? ( Damn, that’s right, he hasn’t won one of those either.)
What about a game that if you win, you are automatically in the playoffs? (couldn’t rally his team, and they got embarrassed.)
P.S. Don’t mean to be a dick, this guy just pissed me off when he started talking about Udeze.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 5, 2009 5:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orton
played very well before he got hurt. I like him. His one weakness is the deep ball and unfortunately, that’s kind of a big problem. What did Mike Shanahan say when Cutler replaced Jake Plummer: “I can use the whole playbook (like I did with Elway now).”
In the NFL you can’t teach speed and you can’t teach a rocket arm. It doesn’t mean that players with speed and rocket arms are going to be great, it just means that those guys have an edge.
Stats mean almost nothing to me. You have to watch the games. Really. A guy can have 5 interceptions in one came because he hit 5 receivers right in the hands right between the numbers and the ball bounced off the receivers hands for an interception. Conversly, a guy can have a bunch of completitions even though he threw terrible passes only to be saved by a receiver’s great catches.
I watched Orton all last year and on too many occasions he missed a wide open Hester for a homerun. The deep ball is his weakness.
Nobody said Hester’s a top flight receiver. Factor this in. How long has Tavaris Jackson been playing QB? I’m guessing since Pop Warner. Hester’s been playing WR ONE YEAR. ONE! Last year was his first. He started picking it up mid-season. Now with Cutler, he will thrive in the new Bear offense.
The Cardinals? Detroit got Calvin Johnson. Stud. Cleveland? Joe Thomas. Stud. Levi Brown (who should have been picked 10-15) is so good that they almost immediately had to move him to RT (LOL). You don’t take RT’s or guards with the #5 pick. BTW: The Cards passed on Cutler in 2006 to take “party boy” Matt Leinart.
Cutler’s record is STUPID. Don’t blame him cause of their record or lack of playoff games. The Broncos have fielded one of the worst defenses in the NFL in recent years. What, should Cutler be making tackles too? That’s an ignorant argument. Really. Shanahan got fired casue he had no D, not because of Cutler.
Regarding UdezeI didn’t realize he had cancer, OK. I simply listed a few recent draft picks and didn’t think I saw any HOF’ers in there.
In short, Cutler is considered one of the best young QB’s in the game and is considered to have mayber the strongest arm in the NFL. That’s why there was so much interest in him. If Kyle Orton went on the open market, there would have been little or no interest.
Talking about stats and wins is meaningless. You can’t compare the two based on that. You have to watch the games. When I see Cutler roll out to his right and throw and completed pass 30 yards on a rope downfield to his left to a doubled covered WR, I see something I never saw with Orton.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comment: Udeze is an excellent combination of size, strength and athleticism. He is a better run-defender than pass-rusher with outstanding power to hold the point. He has improved his hand use and ability to lock out and extend to shed effectively. He has a powerful first step and works with a good base to leverage blockers effectively. He has good initial quickness as an edge pass-rusher, but his mindset and the philosophy of the defensive scheme is to stop the run first. Udeze has expanded his pass-rush package with inside counters and a variety of initial moves. He plays with a non-stop motor and shows good range to make plays from the backside and down field. He appears to be an instinctive athlete because he reacts well to basic blocking schemes as well as misdirection plays. Udeze is a good football player on one of the better defenses in the league and should continue to improve.
That is Scout Inc.‘s take on Udeze. Not my biased opinion. Not your Biased opinion. Could he have done better? Sure. He still had 5 sacks his rookie season and in 2007. His other 2 seasons he was injured. Then he got diagnosed with cancer. I wouldn’t claim he is a “bust,” but he is not a HOFer. That much is true.
I can and will talk about stats. Stats and wins are what this game is all about. It’s not like it was when you played in little league. The teams don’t get together after the game and go out for ice cream and pizza. It’s all about stats and wins. And how can I not compare two players based on stats? Should I just use a crystal ball? Call Ms. Cleo?
Greenway is an excellent LBer. He will make it to at least one probowl in his career. He is worthy of a 1st round pick to me and anyone else who knows anything about football.
Wanna talk about holes on the Vikings D? We can talk about the best front 4 in the league. We can talk about EJ Henderson and Chad Greenway, two dominant linebackers who should and will make it to the probowl. We can talk about Winfield, who is perfect for the Vikings tampa 2 style D. Same with Griffin. Our starting FS is Tyrell Johnson, the Viking’s first pick last year. Jury is out on him yet, although he played pretty well when filling in last year. Our SS is Madieu Williams, a highly touted safety last year in free agency. I don’t see and “holes” in our D. I wouldn’t mind it if Brian Cushing fell to 22 so he could replace Leber. If that happens, best front 7 in the league. No doubt about it.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 5, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wins yes
Stats no. Not in and of themselves. Stats are often misleading.
If a QB has 5 interceptions, and all 5 passes hit his receiver right in his hands, between the numbers, only to bounce out and into the defenders hands for an easy INT, it’s kind of hard to blame the QB.
Only by watching the games can a person tell.
If a QB hit on 75% of his passes (mostly dump-offs) and overthrew a wide open WR three times in the end zone (and his team lost) his stats would look pretty good.
A 75% completition percentage is GREAT! MIssing three wide open, easy TD’s isn’t.
And those “missed TD’s” wouldn’t show up in the stats.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got an idea
How about we throw out all stats and stop keeping records. Stats are there for a reason. They don’t just look at completion percentage. There is also ypa, pass attempts, and many others that tell the whole story.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't wait to see Jarde Allen try to get around Orlando Pace...
Not nearly as easy of a task, as facing John friggin St Clair.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Apr 5, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN's take
Here’s a quote from ESPN on their analysis of Pace. “Quick leverage rushers can give him trouble late in games. When DEs convert speed to power he can stay in front, but will give ground.”
Here’s a quote from ESPN on their analysis of Allen. “He plays big and uses his long arms to keep blockers off his body. He rarely gives offensive linemen a solid shot at his frame. He wears out opponents by simply coming at them, continually, with seemingly boundless energy. He goes all-out until the whistle on every play. He excels at locating the level of the ball while warding off blockers.”
IMO, with Pace’s size, age, and history of injury, he will get worn out pretty quickly by Jared Allen.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it will be fun to see
how all of this plays out.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
by Dane Noble on Apr 6, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please remember
that you’re using ESPN.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Apr 6, 2009 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Allen
Jared will over-power, out-work, and wear out most LTs. The Bears ace in the hole is Jay Cutler, and his ability to pass accurately on the run.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 6, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is very true.
Cutler is very good at throwing on the run. Bears Vikings games should be very fun to watch this year.
by PurplePeopleEaters09 on Apr 6, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh plese! you're the one being a dick!
Nobody brought up the fact that Udeze has Leukemia except you! Yes it is unfortunate and I hope he gets better, but the guy was a bust, plain and simple. He was picked in ‘05, and hasn’t done shit since.
Don’t use cancer as a means of excuse. The guy is garbage.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another nice try
The Broncos not making the playoffs had nothing to do with the defense giving up 112 points in the last three games.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 5, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greenway
ia pretty damn good so I would take him out of that group but the point is well taken. Purple you can’t be happy that we have Cutler, you guys would kill for him. All the perrenial playoff team have one thing, a great qb and we have one know. Do we still have holes absolutely, but who doesn’t? How about the vikes? Great DLine, one good lb and you have some weakness at the safety position (sound familiar)/ New center, but RT? and your wr are average at best (and we know about about Berrian, he runs two patterns the slant and the fly pattern..). The thing is a great qb helps to overcome the defieiencies that exist on the team. And this year we may be smart enough to have out TE or RB chip on Allen to neutralize him..
by tfrabotta on Apr 5, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Greenway
I’m nat saying he’s not good. It’s just that some people are making it sound like every 1st round pick is a HOF’er or a Pro-Bowler. As you know, that’s just ignorant. Half are either busts or complete underachievers worthy of a much later pick.
The whole idea of #1 picks is to convert them into great players. The Bears did just that! Good job Chicago! You converted your #1 picks into ONE great player.
Everybody in the WHOLE world says you (almost always) have to have a great QB to win in the NFL. I don’t know about you, but I’ve heard that a million times.
The Bears simply converted two #1’s into just such a guy. Those same two #1’s probably would have produced ONE excellent player, just not at the QB position (where they need it most).
To me, it’s a no-brainer.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't say I didn't agree
but the greenway thing is incorrect. I would not be surprised if he went to the probowl next year for them.
by tfrabotta on Apr 5, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GET HIM GEO!!
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was an outstanding trade
The Bears had to pay a premium to get a franchise caliber quarterback. So what. Cutler is a transformational addition to a football team that has struggled with the quarterback position for decades. Two first round picks, a third round pick and Kyle Orton is what it took to get the deal done. I’m perfectly fine with that.
Or in other terms, it was like trading —
- Chris Williams (1st round pick in 08 and a bust in the making)
- Greg Olson (1st round pick in 07, a lower pick like the one envisioned to be going to Denver next year)
- Garrett Wolff (3rd round pick, and no great shakes by any stretch)
- Kyle Orton (a classic defined backup QB type)
Chalks up to a wonderful trade for Chicago.
by BLou on Apr 5, 2009 7:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wolfe
might be one of our best special teams players. He is almost always one of the first guys on the tackle and last year he saved two TDs with his speed. He also could be a great change of pace back if he ever got playing time.
by patagonia on Apr 5, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO
I’m a Northern Illinois alum who had the benefit of seeing three years worth of Wolfe’s games in DeKalb. He was exceptional at the collegiate level but WAY too undersized to ever have an impact in a NFL backfield. And no, he cannot be compared to Sproles in San Diego because Sproles was a proven return man and of distinctly greater physical bulk than Wolfe. Wolfe is slight of build and has never been used in the return game, not at NIU or with the Bears.
Fact is Wolfe was a bad reach in the 3rd round. His draft value was more like that of a 6th round pick.
by BLou on Apr 5, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
complete bust
and waste of a third rd pick limited on everything he can do because of his size. Can’t break a tackle, can’t block, and is easliy blocked. Wish he was 2 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier. He is wasting a roster space right now. He is living off of th fake punt run for a td he did untouched. Pretty good in space but how often is that. He is not even really fast, more quick than anything.
by tfrabotta on Apr 5, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's still on the team
and he was just a third round pick with low expectations, so I wouldn’t call him a bust. I mean, look at all the guys that were drafted in the 3rd round that year that aren’t on the same team or even playing in the NFL anymore. at least he’s made an impact on special teams.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
by thecoolest on Apr 5, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angelos Draft History
“The money under the salary cap the Bears will save by not paying two first-round picks is also a huge positive moving forward.”
The Bears are much better off without the first round draft choices!
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
by phastphil on Apr 5, 2009 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
That’s an additional bonus. Think of all the money they will save by not giving it to guys like Cedric Benson!
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bears got the better of the deal... Hands Down!!
I have to be honest, I’m still pinching myself over this trade. I was watching the NFL network last night and they had on a Broncos game from last year versus the Chargers. There had to be two posessions in a row where the Broncos didn’t run the ball at all. He’s out there scrambling and creating plays with his feet, lead blocking on screen plays. This kid made throws in a 2-minute drill before the half that Orton has never made in his career. I almost had a freaking orgasm. LOL! It’s really sinking in guys, Angelo pulled off one of the biggest coos in NFL history! You gave up draft picks and Orton…..Kyle freaking Orton for a 25 yr. old QB who hasn’t reached his prime yet. I don’t think Broncos or even Bears fans truely realize how rare and unbelievable this trade really was.
by Dils on Apr 5, 2009 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched it too.
I’m with you. I didn’t need my viagra after watching that game!
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vikings fans
u do know that the williams wall is facing a possible 4 game suspension which they appealed last season n if they dont win the appeal theyll be suspended for the 1st 4 games n with that ull fall behind the division n will have a tough time climbing back
So i see the bears n the packers fighting for the division with the bears coming up on top at the end
by BEARSFAN19 on Apr 5, 2009 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
actually...
It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Bears, Pack, and Vikings all battling it out most of the season for the division. In fact them ending the regular season in a 3-way tie is not at all unrealistic. Each of the three teams has some real strengths. Each of the three has some real weaknesses. In the end, it’s going to come down to which team is going to be able to best take advantage of what they are good at and minimize the hurt from the areas they are weak. That comes down to coaching, more than anything else. And I don’t think any of the three teams are being coached by an Einstein.
Should make for an interesting year, at the very least.
by JohnPaul on Apr 5, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Cutler will make our defense better
we now have the chance to convert 3rd n 10 with cutler as our QB because he can throw the ball accurately farther than 10 yrs unlike Orton which if we convert those into 1st downs will lwt our Defense rest on the sidelines longer instead of constant 3 n outs
by BEARSFAN19 on Apr 5, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
disagree here
I like the trade, but for the most part, I don’t think you can put the majority of blame on Orton for the missed 3rd down conversions as much as you can blame the receivers who dropped numerous 3rd down passes and the questionable play calling by Turner at times. I think you’re going back more toward the Grossman lead Bears where he couldn’t hit the water from a boat on 3rd down. Bottom line is that Cutler has the ability to do the job, now we just have to hope there is an upgrade to his receiving corp or it won’t matter.
by BearFan611 on Apr 5, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From Rosenbloom
Rashied Davis. This will be the most talented quarterback for whom he’s ever had the chance to drop passes.
Freakin HILarious
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll settle for converting 3rd and short consistently!
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
by propheteer on Apr 5, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way.
If the Bears keep those two picks, we’re likely to see one good pick (Tommie Harris) and one wasted pick (Cedric Benson). That’s JA’s track record, like it or not. Actually, that’s not even accurate because both of those guys went higher than #18.
Nevertheless, we’re probably going to get one great player (and one wasted draft pick) if we keep those two draft choices.
Who would you rather have in the next 5 – 10 years? Another Tommie Harris (or Urlacher) or Cutler. As much as I would like to see another Tommie Harris or Brian Urlacher, I’ll take Jay Cutler over that all day long.
What do they say about almost every team that wins the SB? Great QB play. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Big Ben, Kurt Warner, even Eli Manning and so on.
They don’t talk about a dominating DT as the biggest reason they won!
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well. Reggie White
but even he had Favre so moot point on my part
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
about the great Reggie White.
The odds on JA drafting the next Reggie White (cause he almost a once-in—lifetime player) is next to nil.
But you made a good point.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Big ben had a horrid line. but he kept plays alive with his feet. something Cutler can do.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That’s kind of lost in the shuffle here. I think Cutler makes everybody on offense (Line, RB and receivers) better.
The line for what you said.
RB cause they will be less likely to stack the box.
receivers cause he can makes ALL the throws, not just some of them.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
along those same lines
I think that this is also a very important year for Tommie Harris. If he has another year like the last one, I don’t know if we can really even say he would fall into the “good” category as far as high first round picks go. I know we’ve seen flashes and he seems to do well on MNF but overall, I think he’s somewhat overrated. Definitely has talent but seems to be injury prone the last couple of seasons and I’m not convinced of his motor. I am curious as to whether Marinelli is as good as his reputation as D-Line coach.
by BearFan611 on Apr 5, 2009 2:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right
And I think Marinelli can do it. He’s a drill sergeant and that’s just what that underachieving line needs.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you also have T Harris and urlacher as well as vasher coming into training camp this year
without having had off season surgeries.
factor in that our number one pick from last year will finally get a chance to show us his skills in the front line and our number 3 pick receiver get some work with whoever else the bears pick up during the draft as well as from free agency and your looking at a fresh new team with some healthy veteran defensive players under an upgraded defensive coaching staff.
by gman2849 on Apr 5, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely one of the most positive posts I've seen for a while
I like it and agree w/ you.
"The phone's for you, I think it's the Devil."
by Acreman20 on Apr 5, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tommie Harris
for Boldin staright up…done.
by tfrabotta on Apr 5, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boldin
Along with Cutler, Hester, Olson and Forte would make the Bears an offensive powerhouse.
Plus, Boldin is definitely the toughest offensive player in Phoenix, and one of the toughest players overall on that team.
The Bears could use some of his toughness as well as his playmaking skills.
Getting Boldin would be a dream come true, but unfortunately, that’s probably all it is . . . a dream.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think
he’d work in that 3-4/4-3 hybrid, so I don’t think they’d take him, but I would def. do that deal.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
by thecoolest on Apr 5, 2009 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know dude, but I think harris would be great
DT in the 4-3 then DE in the 3-4
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I'd like Boldin on the team..
I wouldn’t make this move. Sure the Offense would be ALOT better, but by trading Harris away our defense loses arguably it’s best player, when healthy. He’s 25, and aside from Urlacher is the most important piece to the Tampa 2 we run. Add in the fact we brought Marinelli here to work his magic on Harris, the trade would be bad IMO.
"The phone's for you, I think it's the Devil."
by Acreman20 on Apr 5, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Acreman
I respect your opinion. Let me ask you this. How much worse would our defense have been last year without Harris?
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 6:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I gotta go with acreman on this one
Tommie Harris may not be the best player on defense, but he is the most important because he’s a three technique lineman for the cover two scheme. you can’t just stick anybody in there and expect them to perform at the level he did the years he was healthy.
and the praise he got from Warren Sapp makes me believe Marinelli will be the Anne Sullivan to Tommie’s Helen Keller.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 5, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about coaching
is this. Anybody can coach great players, #1 picks, etc.
Everybody talks about how great the 85 Bears O-Line was. And, as time went on, they were. They had two #1 Tackles (Covert and VanHorne) an undrafted center (Hilgenberg) and one guard (Thayer) who was a 4th round pick and the other (Bortz) who I believe was an eighth round pick who was a Defensive Lineman who was converted to guard.
On defense they had Dent who was an eighth round pick and McMichael who was cut by NE (along with first rounders William Perry and the incomparable Dan Hampton).
I’m not advocating getting rid of Harris. I will say this: to me, it’s kind of sad to even talk about Harris underachieving and needing Marinelli to light a fire under him.
Guys like Hampton and Boldin have NEVER, EVER been accused of underachieving. Ever. That stuff makes me sick. It really does.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 7:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you do know there is a "reply" button right?
When you don’t reply to someone’s post, it makes it very hard to understand who you are replying to.
http://www.southsidesox.com/2009/4/2/819786/cactus-league-finale-white-sox-vs#13641879
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 5, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You haven't been around much have you?
Geo and the reply button have a love-hate relationship. :)
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Dude, for serious? 1986 was 23 years ago.
Can we drop it?
-halfblindcubbiegirl
by Dane Noble on Apr 5, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on man
You’re killing me! I’m on my other computer so that took care of most of the problem.
However, when I’m responding to the very last post (as in this case), I sometimes forget to use the reply button (as there is nothing below the post I’m replying to).
That’s something I have to keep an eye on.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give it to ya tho
You have been doing a better job recently.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Apr 5, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks ChiFan
I’ll sleep better tonight knowing that.
The Jay Cutler era.
A). I’m still shocked that JA pulled it off.
B). The deal’s worth it just not to have to hear about “the QB question” for the next 10 years.
C). This is such a great deal that even I’m optimistic going into 2009 and beyond.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
…as long as Jerry gets a decent WR in the draft. We’re sittin a lot prettier than we were last week at this time.
I'M A MAN! I'M 22!
by ChiFan13 on Apr 5, 2009 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If not this year
then next (hopefully this year).
I look at it this way. Cutler, Hester, Olson and Forte all have three years or less in the league. THAT’S a beautiful thing.
Really. No aging veterans there.
Besides, I’m a big believer in the Steve Breaston theory.
Breaston was drafted in the 5th round by the Cardinals in 2007, mainly as a return man (and WR). In 2007 he played almost exclusively on returns.
After the 2007 season, underachieving WR Bryant Johnson left for SF in FA.
Breaston said that he worked harder in that offseason that he had ever worked before in his life, because he wanted the 3rd WR job behind Boldin and Fitz.
He won the job and had a great season.
Hard work really does play off. Imagine that!
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I keep reminding myself Geo
Cutler, Hester, Olsen, Forte, and Chris Williams are all 26 or younger. The future is very bright for the offense if we can stay healthy.
"The phone's for you, I think it's the Devil."
by Acreman20 on Apr 6, 2009 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice Geo...
I can see who you are replying to now ;D
http://www.southsidesox.com/2009/4/2/819786/cactus-league-finale-white-sox-vs#13641879
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 6, 2009 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting article for those that think the Bears paid too much
On Halloween Day 1987, the then Los Angeles Rams traded franchise running back Eric Dickerson to the Indianapolis Colts in a three-team deal that included the Buffalo Bills.
When the football world was done shaking its head and bulging its eyes at each new detail, the Rams ultimately came away with running backs Greg Bell and Owen Gill and six draft choices over the next two years: three in the first round and three more in the second.
It was considered an incredible haul at the time, but we now know the Rams wound up with little more than fool’s gold.
I’ll take a young, Pro-Bowl QB for a couple of number # 1’s ALL DAY LONG. It’s a complete no-brainer.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 10:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you could use that trade comparison
or you could use the Herschel Walker trade. There are two sides to that coin.
I’m not saying your wrong or anything. I’m ecstatic about the trade, but who knows about those picks. They could turn out like those in the Dickerson trade (nothing special) or like the ones in the Walker trade (important pieces on great teams)
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
by thecoolest on Apr 5, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but, to me
Neither JA or the Broncos draft as well as Jimmy Johnson. I know JA doesn’t. Especially in the first round.
by GeoMak on Apr 5, 2009 11:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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