Kiper's Newest Mock Draft
by Adam T on Apr 9, 2009 11:44 AM CDT
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PrintRound 2, Pick 49: Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Georgia
Round 3, Pick 99: Chris Clemons, S, Clemson
Round 4, Pick 119: Christopher Owens, CB, San Jose St.
What do you think?
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Clemons or Patrick Chung?
unless Mel “the Hair” Kiper has Chung going earlier … I’d rather have Chung. Massaqoui is a decent 2nd rounder if he’s there … Robiskie would be a better choice IMO.
I think somebody is going to jump at Robiskie
so if we don’t move up, I don’t think we have a shot unless by some reason guys like Nicks and Britt fall past the early second.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
As much as I despise OSU, as a Badger's fan
I really hope you’re wrong on both accounts.
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Apr 9, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree he's overrated
but I think there’s a good chance he’s there when we pick. GMs don’t get caught up in the hype and concensus-building that takes place among draftniks.
DEJESUS!!!
I'm not a Robiskie fan
I think the Bears have to embrace the philosophy of taking the absolute best available player on their board — between the positions of wide receiver, safety and defensive lineman — at #49. The Bears don’t have the luxury of taking a flyer on a project type with that pick, nor picking a guy who is an overly “safe” pick but whose upside is questionable. I have never liked Robiskie. I don’t see him doing much of anything at the NFL level.
Another Receiver Option...
I really think JA should take a look at the beast of a receiver from Cal-Poly, Ramses Barden. I know Cal-Poly is I-AA so he wasn’t always up against the best competition but he was extremely productive (4 years, 206 catches for 4200 yards and 50 td’s) and the guy looks like he could be a steal in the 4th or 5th. 6’ 6" 225 lbs and runs a pretty decent forty for someone his size (low to mid 4.5), could possibly be the Marques Colston of this draft.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=171216
http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Small%20School%20Football/ramses_barden.htm
(sorry couldn’t get them to show as links for some reason)
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
nevermind
my bad, links worked on their own.
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Barden
is going to be a long term project. He is a very sloppy route runner, and has never had to work hard on his craft because he was always bigger and more talented than his competition. He might not produce, imo, until his second contract.
I don’t like Massaquoi. I don’t think he’s any better of a prospect than people available at the end of the third, so I’d rather take a safety than him in the second.
DEJESUS!!!
Sounds Familiar
The same things were said about Colston coming out of Hofstra… not fast enough, doesn’t go into out/come out of breaks sharp, viewed as a long term project (which is why he was taken late). While I understand that Colston was the exception rather than the rule, I think that with some proper coaching and a little time Barden could be a stud because while you can teach him to be a better route runner, you can’t teach size/strength/speed/jumping ability/competitiveness. If he lasts until the fifth round I think he could provide great value for a team with a new quarterback that is coming over from a system where he had another big, fast receiver to work with in Brandon Marshall.
On another note i agree with you tomas, I’m not really sold on Massaquoi. If the plan is to take a receiver in the second round, I would feel much better taking Robiskie (assuming he’s available).
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Barden
Its a gamble to wait until the 3rd round to get him, but I think he could be a good addition to the Bears. He’s got the size and jump ball ability the Bears need. With that according to NFL.com: His long strides give him deceptive downfield speed. They also say he is a good blocker, which will help the running game. Which I like the sounds of. They didn’t say anything about his very sloppy route running, probably because that isn’t a very important factor. I’d rather draft an athlete who can run, jump, and catch over a guy who can run crisp routes, running routes are a lot easier to teach/learn then everything else.
with respect to tomas21
I apologize if I came off as cracking on your comment, I didn’t mean for it to come off like that. Route running is an important factor, no question, but I was trying to say that route running is something that can be taught, as opposed to natural size and ability. But, he is right… he would be a project, but I don’t think he would need that long to be turned around.
36 TD catches in two seasons
doesn’t sound like a project player to me. don’t try to rely to much on draft analysis you have to look at both sides of the spectrum
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I had
6 receiving TDs in one game last year on my flag fooball team. Should I be a 3rd round pick?
DEJESUS!!!
by tomas21 on Apr 9, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
no, you shall be slapped with my equation, however
Football+Flags=Football-balls
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
just wondering
what was your forty time? if you ran 4.4 well take you!!
by Bear Lovin 21 on Apr 12, 2009 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
Living in Phoenix I like to tell the story of Steve Breaston who was a 5th round draft choice in 2007 and was used mostly as a kick returner in his rookie season.
After that season, WR Bryant Johnson left in FA. Breaston said that he wanted Bryant’s job (3rd WR behind Boldin & Fitzgerald) and Breaston said he worked harder in that off-season than he had ever worked before in his life.
He won the job and went over 1,000 yards last year. Yeah, it helps having Kurt Warner, as well as Boldin & Fitzgerald in the offense.
And I’m not making any direct comparison between Breaston and any other WR’s coming out of college.
I’m just saying that hard work apparently goes a long way towards improving your game. Shocking!
For every Colston
there are 50 players taken higher who aren’t good route runners, or are unpolished, or haven’t had real competition that bust out of the league. You can’t cite the one example of a player like that who succeeded and figure Barden will take the same path. Every GM in football was wrong about Colston 6 times, and they know football a lot better than we do.
Marcus Monk is just as tall and fast (Barden ran just under a 4.6 at the combine) and unpolished as Barden, and he couldn’t make our roster. I seem to recall many here being excited about Monk, saying “he’s 6’6”, he’ll be unstoppable in the red zone". That doesn’t mean Barden won’t succeed, but I think most here would agree the Bears need someone who can make an immediate impact, and I am pretty certain Barden is not that guy.
And you are right, you can teach someone to be a better route runner. It just takes a long time, which is why I said he’s a long-term project.
DEJESUS!!!
Exactly
And if I remember correctly, he was the first of those 7th rounders to be cut and I was sold he would be a stud at 6’6. Don’t get me wrong, I want some size in the receiving core, but reaching for Barden (or any receiver) could kill this draft (whats left of it).
by Hurricanes becoming Bears on Apr 9, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That's why
I think taking him any higher than the 5th round would be a reach. There are a lot of mixed reviews and some think he’ll last that long and others don’t, I’m just saying he could be a steal if he’s around when we pick in the 5th.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't have
issue with him as a 5th or 6th round pick. But you don’t take a WR in the 5th or 6th and expect him to be a starter.
DEJESUS!!!
Monk
Monk was shorter by a couple inches (makes a difference), slower, not as productive in college, and came into the league already having had knee problems. Also, Monk appeared to be more interested in pursuing a basketball career. ESPN analyst Chris Mortensen said (about Monk), “He got drafted by the Bears and he just wasn’t healthy,” Mortensen said. "And playing basketball was big for him).
Tomas not trying to constantly argue with you, and while I agree with some of the points you make I still think you are being very close-minded about this kid and his potential to help our team with a great quarterback, and up and coming running back and tight end, and a major speed threat lined up on the other side of the field.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
the kid is solid. watch his highlight video sometime. mater fact i’ll just give yall the link
Here’s another. he seems like a character guy. just the kind of guy Lovie and jerry like.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
something else to ponder
Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. I looked at their draft analysis. both were labled bad route runners. Marshall was labeled as slow and came from a conference USA school UCF.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm interesting...
Barden & Hester = Marshall & Royal ??? (potentially in a few years)
and you can even through Bennett into the slot just for good measure, and that way everyone is happy :-)
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
yessir
actually Royal was Denvers answer to Hester. I can definitely see that trio on the field
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Your logic
is ridiculous. By that logic, anyone who is a bad route runner will be a star in the NFL.
DEJESUS!!!
WHAT FRIGGIN LOGIC?!?!?!?
I only stated facts! I used two receivers that Jay Cutler(our Quarterback in case you didn’t know) played with. It pisses me off everytime you throw that word around like you’re Sid the Science Kid and shit.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
At least according
to wiki, monk is 6’6", same as barden. Monk ran a 4.57 40, which is roughly the same as Barden. Monk played much tougher competition than barden.
I don’t think Barden is terrible or anything. All I said is he is very raw and will take a long time to become productive. Bennett was a much more polished wr and they couldn’t get him on the field last year—do you think the same coaching staff will turn barden, who needs much more help, into an instant starter?
DEJESUS!!!
Your logic
is ridiculous. By that logic, anyone who is the same build and 40 time as Marcus Monk will be a bust in the NFL.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 9, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
You really struggle with logic
I was responding to grid assasin’s claim that barden is taller and faster than monk. It wasn’t a logic problem. You are going to struggle on the SAT in a couple years if you don’t get a handle on logic problems.
DEJESUS!!!
1) not funny
2) shut up
3) Monk was projected a first round pick before he blew out both his knees.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 10, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
This is an absurd argument....
Two bloggers trying to predict the future of low round NFL prospects, based on scouting reports that you friggin read on the internet. LOL.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Wow Sack,
You’re a day late for the festivities :)
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 11, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Not productive...
didn’t Monk break pretty much every Arkansas career receiving record. that sounds productive to me.
I'm in agreement
I think route-running ability is one of the biggest things you’ve got to look for. It seems like every year several WR’s get drafted based on size and/or speed that have bad routes, and they almost all bust out within a few seasons. That’s why I was so against the idea of taking Heyward-Bey (when we still had a 1st). Obviously it can be taught, but that’s something you’re supposed to at least have a solid grasp on coming into the league. If not, it probably means one of three things: 1) you were poorly coached, 2) you relied on your ability and never put in the work, or 3) you just don’t get it. None of those are particularly good traits.
"Well, we didn't block real good but we made up for it by not tackling."
- John McKay
by JerBear50 on Apr 10, 2009 4:44 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Barden is too much of a project
He could turn out to be quite good, but I don’t think you risk a 2nd round pick on a guy like that if you are the Bears.
Almost any WR we get in the 2nd
will be a project. But thats good for the future. I’m sure JA is trying to hammer out a contract with Holt or another FA.
Barden
A big receiver who knows how to use his body, Barden is more quick than fast (4.55). But, Barden has a knack for getting open behind defenders, being able to gain yards after the catch. He is a physical wide out who is not afraid to block. However, he is not a fluid athlete, his route running needs much work and he needs to control his weight. He has become “lazy” on the field, so his level of competition is a major concern as are his suspect hands.
Barden is somewhat viewed as a sleeper. He does have some good traits, but he is far from a finished product. He needs better conditioning and his route running needs tons of work. Barden will also drop some balls, which is always a concern. Some Draft boards have Barden going on the first day, but I think he is a reach even in the fifth round.
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1728
DEJESUS!!!
Barden again
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=23814
And for those without ESPN Insider, The scouts Inc. Player Evaluation of him grades him high on production (even with taking into account the level of competition), character (“Shows great worth ethic both on and off the field.”), ball skills, durability, competitiveness and toughness (“Not afraid to go over the middle, throws weight around and fights for the ball when isn’t able to separate from coverage. Adequate stalk blocker. Could work harder to sustain blocks but he does a better-than-adequate job of getting into position and shielding defenders off.”). The main (cited) issues with him are that he is “Likely to have problems getting a clean release working against press coverage” (which can be taught and will come as he gets stronger), “Doesn’t show a second gear when tracking the ball downfield and can’t stretch the field when gets slowed down at the line of scrimmage” (but also goes on to say, “However, steadily builds speed and tracks the ball well so more of a vertical threat the timed speed suggests”).
I’m not saying that he is going to be a pro bowl lock, 100 catches and 1400 yards every year. And I’m also not trying to suggest that we take him in the second (or even third) round as some above me have mentioned. All I am saying is that he is an intriguing prospect and if he available when we pick in the 5th that JA should give him a long, hard look because he has the potential to be very, very good.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I will agree that Mr. Barden is intriguing
However, his poor route running as mentioned in previous comments, is worse than bad, it is simply atrocious.
I have 2 game tapes of him playing, one this year and the other last. Some comments from these tapes:
1. There was little difference, could mean he had a bad game. I personally feel that he isn’t that interested in working hard in the offseason. His interviews have been subpar and a few GMs have mentioned that he was way too relaxed during them.
2. The press coverage trouble mentioned was dead on. This is something taught to HS freshmen. His technique made me laugh to myself, it was atrocious.
3. A majority of his catches were on fade routes where a receiver takes an outside release and streaks vertically. His size made this easy for him in 1-AA. NFL corners shut that down better. His vertical isn’t all that impressive.
I agree that there is a possibility that he could become a good player in the NFL. But I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Even if
we take a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd, if Barden’s there in the 5th, he’ld be a steal.
by Hurricanes becoming Bears on Apr 9, 2009 3:56 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you
Wrecked
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
CB in the 4th?
I don’t think JA will draft one that early; DE makes more sense to me.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
D-Line
The defense line could definitely use some help and I agree that the 4th round would be the right time to pick up an end. However I think the bears are counting on Marinelli to fix our current line (because we really do still have some good young talent there) and bring it back to the super bowl year level of production. I hope that is not the case and JA takes DE because i don’t know if I completely trust Ogunleye.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Apr 9, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't forget
that Anderson and Whale are both are FAs at the end of the season.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
Most likely.......
I dont see the Bears using a pick on a wr unless its round 5-7, I think between cutler talking about making our receivers better and the stellar scouting on wrs in the draft in recent years for the bears either we pick up a start via FA or welcome your starting WRs Hester and Bennet and slot man Davis. depth will come via draft all the talk of wr in rounds 2 thru 4 will become alot of defensive players namely at least one lineman, LB, and DB—— just take it to the bank. its JA 101
I heard.........
Bears are looking to trade up in the second so they can grab Robiskie.
by Hubstorm22Xxx23 on Apr 10, 2009 9:42 PM CDT reply actions
Did I just read this on another thread?
Or have I had a couple drinks too many? Got a link? If so, make a fanpost!
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
If you heard it
then it probably isn’t true. The Bears aren’t going to tell anyone that they are thinking of moving up, and they most definitely aren’t going to tell anyone who they are moving up to get.
DEJESUS!!!
If you want immediate help at WR , by using the 2nd round pick...
Then you could always decide to offer Lance Moore (RFA) or Malcom Floyd (RFA) a contract. They are both tendered with a 2nd round price tag, so if the Saints or Chargers don’t match the offer in 10 days, you give up your 2nd round pick for them.
Right now, the Jets are considering the same move with Dallas’ Miles Austin.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Wow..
I thought Dallas had already wrapped him up. I don’t think there is any way they let Austin walk… but if the Jets get him for a 2nd, good on them.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious. (Vince Lombardi)
Floyd is 6-5 225
If I were the Bears, I’d be asking Cutler what he thinks of him… he’s seen him twice a year.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Yeah, I've always liked Floyd
But would we have to give up a second round pick to get him? his production hasn’t convinced me he can be a number 1. but who knows.
Think With Your Dipstick Jimmy!
by ifuwannacrownem on Apr 11, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
how about?
Turner, Patrick WR 6’5" 223 Southern Cal?
I like Owens
some scouts like him more than the guy he played across from and is getting more attention, Coye Francies.
I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad
I really like this Massaquoi.
He appears to have the goods.
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
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