Maybe I phrased it or said it wrong.

I meant the Broncos as a team, struggled to win it all without a great RB until they got TD. They were way too dependent on Elway.

I completely agree with your assessment of Elway.

To me, John Elway was the greatest QB I ever saw play, largely because of what you wrote in your first paragraph.

I hope this clears up the confusion.

I also tend to agree with your assessment about Bowlen. he did, however, give Mike Shanahan too much power for too long and honestly, Shanahan pretty much has underachieved since Elway left.

Bowlen should be credited with not being a meddling owner, but he should have done a better job in setting up his front office.

Not too many HC’s made good GM’s at the same time. Shanahan didn’t.

I (hopefully) cleared up the misunderstanding regarding #2 with my comment above. I should have said that the Broncos have struggled (and not Elway).

As far as the defense goes:

A). I never said that he never had a good defense there. I said this:

who couldn’t put together the players and/or coaches necessary to have a complimentary defense for his offense.

Look at your stats: In the three years with Jay Cutler the defense ranked:

2006 – 14th
2007 – 19th
2008 – 29th

That’s what I meant. That’s the very definition of not having a complimentary defense.
When he had his best QB after Elway he had a defense ranked from the middle on down.

B). Defensive rankings (like offensive rankings) are based on yardage and points. Both important to be sure, but they don’t explain ‘situational’ football like 3rd downs and takeaways.

In 1992 the Houston Oilers were ranked 9th in team defense. In 1993 4th.
Both top ten finishes. And here’s the difference.

In 1992 the Oilers blew a 32 point lead against the Bills in the playoffs. No team has ever choked worse than that in the playoffs. They fired their DC after that and Buddy Ryan came aboard the next year.

After starting out slowly in 1993 (1-4…..Buddy’s defenses usually started out slowly) they won their last 11 games to make the playoffs.

Under Buddy Ryan in 1993 (as compared to the team in 1992) the Oilers gave up 20 LESS points but 663 MORE yards.

Kind of meaningless to me: They gave up 41 more yards per game and a little over 1 point per game less.

Buddy always said that things like stopping a team on 3rd down and taking the ball away were much more important than a few yards here and a few points there, which is what the rankings are based on.

And also what’s important is this: Protecting the lead at the end of the game (witness Bear losses last year against Atlanta, TB & Carolina).

Just looking at the rankings really doesn’t even begin to tell the whole story.

For the most part, the defense under Shanahan has been his teams weak link. Not his offense.

As I always say, in the first quarter Hester had his TD and Grossman hit Muhammad for a TD. That’s 14 points. The Bears are only one of, I think, four teams to score 14 first quarter points in the SB (The 85 Bears scored 13).

No team in the history of the SB has come back from a 14 point deficit. The Colts would have had to do something that had never been done in SB history.

Only problem? The Bears never had a 14 point lead, due to Manning’s boneheaded play which gave them Reggie Wayne’s easy TD. Instead of 14-0 it was 14-6 (due to the missed PAT).

I blame Manning’s stupid play and a Bear defense that gave up almost 200 yards of rushing for that loss. More so than Rex and the offense.

Did your mom help you pick that out. you probably still live with her. You can’t be over 25 that’s a given. I havn’t seen one gram of substance that has come off your keyboard since I started posting. Not one! Anytime you are ready, please proceed. You are nothing more than a child with some very deep issues. I know it and so do you.

Because my buddy Rocko loves Orton and is always over there explaining how Orton will be great for Denver. I was over there because I am curious how a fan base whose team gave away a young probowl QB is coping. Unfortunately Rocko is over there selling dreams to those fans making Orton out to be the next Ben Rothlisberger and I just couldn’t have that so we started sparring over Orton and his talent. Because fans there are curious who this Orton guy is and I can’t let them walk away thinking they robbed the Bears in that trade.

Forte was the only receiver open. Maybe Orton took what he could get before he was sacked. It’s a complicated question and the answer would depend on the breakdown of each play. Given the pourous nature of the line and the fact that Orton was working with the worst group of wide receivers in the league, it probably was a combination of both.
I have lived in Chi-town a long time and love the Bears. We have won one frigin championship in the Super Bowl era. We’ve had only one dominating team which is the 85 Bears(83 through 88?). That simply is not good enough! I have an extremely low opinion of ownership, Angelo, and the current coaching staff. I love the players and the trade is what it is. The trade is done and I will embrace Jay Cutler. I will also continue to bitch until changes are made at Halas Hall.
As a Purdue grad, I am a fan of Kyle Orton. That’s why I’ve been over a Mile High. i like the site and the discussion is very good. I will be cheering the Broncos and Orton on while he plays for the team.

Orton’s last year at Purdue: 31 tds and 5 ints(He missed a month due to injuries)
Grossman’s last year at Florida: 22 tds and 17 ints.
I’ll let the stats do the talking. Orton was the leading candidate for the Heisman until he was injured.
Dils, I didn’t see Grossman play in college. Looked like he had a pretty good career at Florida and bypassed his final year of eligibility.. I watched many of Purdue’s games and was very impressed with Orton. I was suprised that the Bears selected him because our offensive scheme was completely different that the spread offense Orton played in under Tiller. I was also shocked, that he wasn’t drafted earlier than the 4th round. 31 tds and 5 ints his senior year and missed a month!
I bring up his career at Purdue because I know what he’s capable of.
When I evaluate Orton and compare him to any other QB, I have to look beyond the raw stats. Coaching, offensive scheme/OC, quality of receivers and offensive line, and the teams running game. Imo, and it is just my opinion, Kyle Orton has the potential to become a top 10 QB in the NFL. Jim Miller, for what it’s worth, feels the same way. Based upon my evaluation of Orton, I believe the Bears gave up way too much to acquire Cutler. Nothing I have seen, tells me Jay Cutler will end up being a better QB in the NFL. I don’t care if his arm is the strongest in the NFL. That doesn’t win any games. With the QB it comes down to what’s between the ears and to be honest, that is what worries me about Jay Cutler.