No-Win Situations
by chase17 on Jun 11, 2009 7:22 PM CDT
18 comments
John Mullin over at SI.com composed a list of players and coaches going into no-win situations in the 2009 NFL season. And, Ron Turner makes the list:
Ron Turner, Chicago Bears offensive coordinator
The Bears sent two No. 1's, a No. 3 and Kyle Orton to the Denver Broncos in April. What they got in return was Jay Cutler and a civic case of Mile High that stopped just short of queuing up for Super Bowl tickets, playoff ducats being a foregone conclusion.
After all, the NFL's charter franchise already had a franchise running back in Matt Forte (NFL's No. 3 in total yards) via the 2008 draft and now a franchise quarterback was de-planing at O'Hare. Never mind the questions inherent in no current Bears wide receiver having more than 74 career catches; the answer to all questions is Cutler, so if the Bears win, it's because of Cutler.
"I don't need the credit," Turner said. "Let Jay and the players have it. That's fine with me."
A complicating factor for Turner, and others like Caldwell, is that significant NFL forces are always at play that are beyond the control of the no-win'ers. Turner's 1994 Chicago offense ranked 23rd but the Bears reached the playoffs. The Bears even won a road wild-card game as Turner guided an offense with afterthought Steve Walsh when the marquee QB signing, Erik Kramer, flopped. The following year the Bears again went 9-7, with Turner's offense setting franchise records behind Kramer. But they missed the playoffs when the pass defense collapsed from fifth to 27th during a stretch of eight of nine games allowing no fewer than 24 points.
When Rex Grossman went down in the 2005 preseason, Turner's steady hand kept the offense controlled under Orton in an 11-5 playoff season. The next year the Bears went to the Super Bowl with Grossman. Two years later both Orton and Grossman are gone, the defense ranked 21st in yardage and 16th in points allowed.
Coach Lovie Smith is taking over as the de facto defensive coordinator. But if the Bears miss the postseason for a third straight year, all eyes will turn to Turner.
"That's just the nature of the business," Turner said. "All you can do is focus on what you can control and not worry when they say good things or bad things."
I kind of agree with the opinion that Turner won't get any credit if the offense improves, Jay Cutler will receive it as stated above. Which in someway is deserved.
But my question to you is, if(when) the offense improves will you give all the credit to Cutler for being a beast or will you only give most of the credit to Cutler while leaving some for Turner because he was able to succesfully use the weapons given to him?
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no credit for turner
turner has had some laudable seasons but, his inability to adjust at half time to things that are working or away from things that arent is a mainstay of his I do not foresee the 09 bears being any better at this, I just see us having much better execution.
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Jun 11, 2009 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Give turner some credit..
He made Orton look, to McDaniels, like the second coming of Tom Brady, and turned a 2nd round draft pick into a offensive fear-monger in his first season. His best receiver was a converted cornerback.
We got worked last year because we didn’t pressure the quarterback, which in turn revealed some serious problems with underneath routes in our secondary – and all of this kept our defense on the field too much.
If Turner can be blamed for a couple of things, is that his offensive schemes are overthought, and we weren’t able to execute the dozen or so plays that every offense needs to succeed – like 3rd and 4th and short.. Also included in this are drive-sustaining plays that keep the defense off the field, but without deep-pass threats that inspire more than laughter from opposing defenses, what could he do?
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 11, 2009 11:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And the 6-10 Award goes to...
Turner didn’t make Orton look like the “second coming of Tom Brady.” IF that was the case, then we wouldn’t have had to give up two 1st round picks and a third in addition to him. Also, IF that really was the case, can you tell me why Orton is still battling Chris Simms to be the starter? Maybe McDumbo liked some of Kyle’s intangibles, maybe he just like his winning percentage – but stop with the over-exaggerated comparisons.
Also, Ron Turner overused Forte! Our ‘offensive fearmonger’ was something like 47% of our total offense – as a rookie. Turner had Forte on the field 850 out of a possible 1,012 offensive plays (83.99%). He finished seventh in rushing yards, yet the team finished 24th in the same category (next closest Bear had 109 yards). He had 282 more carries than any other RB on our team – are you kidding me Turner. Not to mention his 63 catches which lead the league for RB’s. I’m not bashing Forte, I love the kid and his ability, I’m just afraid that he would have been out of the league in three years if Turner had kept that up.
Ron Turner, you are ridunkulous!
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Jun 12, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say I thought Orton was the second coming..
I said that McDaniels thought that. Nevertheless, if turner can’t do something with this offense in 2009 (and I truly believe he’ll have Plax to work with, but that’s just a hunch), then, not only will 2009 be his swan song, but I will agree with his dismissal.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 12, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you read the rest of my post beyone the first sentence...
you will see that I never thought you did. I was simply showing you that McD doesn’t think he is the second coming of Brady – if he had… re-read my post for rest of explanation.
If Turner can’t do anything with this years players and we miss the playoffs, I would probably agree with you that it will be his last year, but then again… I have been thinking it was his last year every season.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Jun 12, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that pic of turner...
Duhhhhh- uhhhhh
When I played I was a triple threat.... Stumble.... Fumble.....Grumble....
by scespy12 on Jun 12, 2009 12:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
look at the money spent on defense
and the money spent of offense. then post your coaching credentials, along with how many hours of bears film you study a week. and then be able to tell us every play called and what was supossed to happen. then defend how anyone on this site can actually think they know what they are talking about.
by mike b on Jun 12, 2009 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If you are going to play that game
Then why be on here at all? None of us know what we are talking about because we are not on the organization’s payroll, and obviously we are not experts. Why bother even reading what we have to type? If you can’t understand the point of this blog then don’t criticize people for doing nothing but having an opinion. You and BLou should start your own blog where you don’t start any threads because you do not have insider information and it is therefore pointless to discuss possibilites.
!
by Qgee on Jun 12, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good thing the worls isn't all or nothing
like you tend to beieve. the average fan can talk about whatever they want. what they can talk about intelligibly is different and usually less.
hard to crticize the coaching staff when you don’t have half the clue they do on why they did things in certain situations with certain personel or what was even supossed to happen. especially when you consider most of the time you can’t even see the downfield action.
kind of like the guys that bitch after a game that the bears didn’t run double tight enough, but if you look at the game they were in it over 80% of time.
by mike b on Jun 12, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you can certainly take issue with the overall (lack of) results
and pro sports centers around the concept of “what have you done for me lately”, so if someone is getting paid to call offensive plays and the offensive can’t score/move the ball consistently then they have to go.
"One time I went to a social gathering, I brought a bottle of Tanqueray and a shotgun and showed those motherf&#@ers the best time they ever had!"- Kenny Powers (Eastbound and Down)
"Why give 100% when 35 can still get you paid and laid."- Kenny Powers
by gridiron_assassin on Jun 12, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If I am reading what you are typing correctly you are saying that unless we have all the details of everything the team/coaching staff was doing there is no point to criticize the staff. If that is the case no one should criticize them for anything. That is stupid.
!
by Qgee on Jun 12, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The media and fans have set up a perfect storm...
For Cutler. If the offense is successful, Cutler gets the credit. for any improvement If it fails to improve over previous years, Turner and Smith will get the blame.
It really is a no win situation for Turner.
"Now we have them where we want them"
-Kieth Bishop - On the Denver 2 yard line, Cleveland Ohio, 1987
by AlanC on Jun 12, 2009 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyway,
I think it depends on how people perceive Turner’s playcalling. If the offense does well how can you say he does not deserve any credit? Are the player’s going to do well and generate yards and points despite his calling the incorrect plays? He and the offense are linked (obviously) and he will have to share at least some of the success if they do well.
!
by Qgee on Jun 12, 2009 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
I already give Turner credit, cause he’s dealt with some of the worst offensive talent in the league the past few years. I’m also his quickest critic when he calls a FB dive on fourth and one against the toughest run defense on the goaline.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!"
by propheteer on Jun 12, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I liked seeing Turner try to exploit mismatches (notably lining Olsen up all over the place).
by reefermadness3 on Jun 13, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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