Will Hester make "the leap" to elite this year?
Devin Hester's ability to become a legit #1 receiver has been and will continue to be debated until he proves it on the field this year. He's being given every opportunity to become just that, see WCG post here.
He also has an elite QB throwing to him, and a revamped O-line. John St. Clair gave up 9+ sacks last year...Pace only 2. Link here. Beekman (if he stays a starter) and Kreutz are good pass protectors. Chris Williams is supposed to be, so in short, our much better QB should have good pass protection, so our passing game should and will improve. What improvement will we see from Hester? Conventional wisdom (whatever that is) says 3rd year receivers make a leap from mediocre/average to good or great. I won't go into proving whether this is true or not, but lets look at Devin Hester compared to other WR's we all hope Hester becomes.
Hester is entering his 3rd year as a receiver (4th overall, but did not play WR his rookie year). I'm grabbing all my stats from CBSsports fantasy site.
He's listed at 5'11" 190 lbs. Some say that's a little small for a true #1 receiver. For this comparison:
- Steve Smith CAR 5'9" 185
- Wes Welker NE 5'9" 185
- Greg Jennings GB 5'11" 197
- Santana Moss WAS 5'10" 200
- Laveranues Coles CIN 5'11" 193
- Lee Evans BUF 5'10" 197
Last year Hester had 52 receptions for 665 yards, 12.8 average, 3 tds. He was on the field for 631 of 1,012 plays, 62.4 percent. He was targeted 91 times by Bears' QBs.
Steve Smith in year 2 had 54 recpts, 872 yds, 16.1 avg, 3 tds. In year 3: 88, 1110, 12.6, 7.
Wes Welker in year 3 (w/ Miami) had 67, 687, 10.3avg, 1td (targeted 76x). Year 4 (w NE): 112, 1175, 10.5, 8td (targeted 145x). Welker really never saw the field and had no catches in year 1 similar to Hester. His leap comes from switching to a real team with a real QB and some guy named Moss lining up next to him. But I think the comparison is still valid.
Greg Jennings in year 2: 53, 920, 17.4avg, 12tds (85 targets). Year 3: 80 recpts, 1292 yds, 16.1 avg, 9tds, targeted 140x.
Santana Moss in year 2: 30, 433, 14.4avg, 4tds. In year 3: 74 recpts, 1105 yds, 14.9 avg, 10 tds.
Laveranues Coles in year 2: 59, 868, 14.7 avg, 7tds. In year 3: 89 recpts, 1264 yds, 14.2 avg, 5 tds.
Lee Evans in year 2: 48, 743, 15.5 avg, 7tds. In year 3: 82 recpts, 1292 yds, 15.8 avg, 8 tds.
These under 6ft receivers all made significant leaps from their 2nd year at wideout to their 3rd. They averaged 51.8 receptions in year 2 for 754 yards and then jumped to 87.5 receptions for 1206 yds the next year. Lots of factors play a role in this for sure, but there are a lot of indications (to me at least) that Hester can make a similar leap this year.
Jay Cutler being the number 1 reason why.
Thoughts?
1 recs |
55 comments
Comments
Wes Welker is not a number #1
Please look up Moss, Randy.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
False
Teams (like NE) can have two #1 WRs. Plus, Welker had 100+ receptions last year. I think that is #1 WR production
by brands735 on Jun 15, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats =/= talent.
And Welker would not have had those numbers on most teams.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. "Rec" comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
by Dane Noble on Jun 15, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, can I have your crystal ball so I can look up lottery numbers...
how can you possibly know that, he is super fast, runs great routes, creates seperation, and catches almost everything thrown his way. I’m sorry if thats not a#1 WR skillset then what is.
by chase17 on Jun 16, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your post is...well...i'm trying to learn my lesson here
but wes welker is a 3rd wide reciever on arguably the best passing offense in the nfl. please see his 67 rec for 687 yards the year before he got to New England.
He is by no means a #1 on any team in the NFL. He’s so weak that he would still be #2 to Devin Hester on the Bears.
Also, 3 touchdowns last year. YOu really think he creates separation? no, he does not. he does a nice job of finding open spaces of the field while the defense focuses on the best wider receiver in all of football
by tempchad on Jun 16, 2009 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for that matter, look at his production in his entire career before NE.
Wes Welker is okay. He is a decent WR who has very good hands, and is a very hard worker. He is intelligent, and runs good routes. All that aside…
He is nowhere near a #1 WR in the NFL. And the true #1s are not hard to find.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. "Rec" comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
by Dane Noble on Jun 16, 2009 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the real issue is the "DEFINITION" of a #1 receiver...
just cuz your name is at the top of the depth chart , it doesn’t make you a #1 receiver
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Hester
I predict over 1000 yards with around 70 receptions
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jun 15, 2009 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Great post.
Good research. The Welker, Jennings, Moss, Smith, Evans analogies make some sense for sure.
I would question using the word “elite” but I would argue that 1200 yard #1 receivers is darn good.
I think Hester can get there for sure. And, if he doesn’t, I don’t believe it will be because he has played poorly but rather because we’ll have a much more diversified offense than some of these other guys played in.
I think the best comparisons are to Coles and Moss although they were like the only thing going for a limp armed Pennington back in the early part of this decade. That team just got on the Curtis Martin train most of the time and let Pennington throw dump off passes to those two speedsters who would then turn on the after burners.
Jennings, Smith and Welker maybe similar in stature but not necessarily with the same kinds of talents. Also, all three of those guy benefited greatly in their third year by playing opposite high quality possession receivers. If Olson turns into that guy for the Bears then I think that you can make some connections there.
by The Kaiser on Jun 15, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
how does the welker comparison make sense? is randy moss on the bears now?
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't comment on that...
I saw a sign up recently, it said:
DNFTT
by The Kaiser on Jun 15, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let us have real discussion here
how is welker on that list?
you do realize that he is not a number 1 nor has he ever been. and wouldn’t be on probably any team in the nfl.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough...
yes, you’re right, he’s a slot receiver, not a 1, or even a 2… and do you believe are the patriots THAT GOOD OF A TEAM, that “system” alone allows this guy to scratch 1200yds for 2 years in a row?!?! so, yes, in real discussion, how do you justify this comment?
and wouldn’t be on probably any team in the nfl.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think welker is a replaceable but decent nfl wr
he happens to play for a team where the qb will find him. and he is often open as the #1 on that team requires too much attention. I think welker would put up those numbers on Indy and Arizona as well. Perhaps New Orleans.
But he is not a number 1 on any roster in the nfl.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so welker would thrive anywhere where there's a QB who can go through his reads???
cuz if that’s what you’re saying, i could add a couple more teams to that list…
eagles
chargers
packers
broncos(last yr)
any team that has garcia on the roster that year
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no. he would thrive playing with the best qbs who can hit a third receiver as well
as have the offense that will call for it.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so then, he's a system player???
not real big on the “SYSTEM” argument… although, i guess there’s something to be said about the broncos being able to plug in RBs at will..
and the patriots??? well… at any position, i guess…
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude.
All of your exclaimation points and question marks…
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. "Rec" comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
by Dane Noble on Jun 15, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's just my thing... been doin that since birth...
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude, c'mon. you are telling me that you think wes welker would
be as good on the bear’s last year?
i’ll give you a better one. You think he’d be as good on the steelers?
no. some teams are better at passing the ball. some are better at running.
The colts, pats, cards and saints are by far the best at it. why? first it’s talent. second, it’s an offensive system that is designed around the talent.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i admit, those numbers are inflated for a slot receiver...
nate washington is a stud and he has about half the numbers… all good examples of pass happy offenses, we all know how “third” receivers did in their offenses… so, as much as it pains me to say this… point made.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whether Welker is a #1 or not...
…is really not relevant to this post. Moreover, Muletrain makes it very clear that Welker is a slightly different story in that his jump in production came in his fourth season and that was with Brady and Moss at his side.
The point that is relevant is that all of these under 6 footers (most of whom also became #1 receivers) had a big jump in their production in their third year playing receiver and that with Cutler and the reinvigorated Bears’ offense, we might be able to expect the same from Hester.
by The Kaiser on Jun 15, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Kaiser
That was my point. Circumstances did allow Welker to become one of the most productive receivers in the NFL over the last 2 years. But his talent gets credit too. He does get open and catch the ball. Will Hester make a similar leap to 80 catches for 1100yards? I don’t know, but I’m optimistic about it.
by MuleTrain on Jun 15, 2009 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you or i would catch 50 passes if we where tom brady or peyton mannings 3rd option
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I wouldn't, neither would you
Wes Welker isn’t a bum. 224 receptions in 2 years. Inflated because of the system and other factors…yes. Jabar Gafney, Kelley Washington, Donte Stallworth, Troy Brown, etc didn’t get to 50 receptions the last 3 seasons. His production over the best 2 years is some of the best in football. Period. I don’t care what you want to label it or him. But the results are awesome. Is Hester going to make a leap to 112 receptions, no, and I never argue that. Welker is one data point of smaller guys who made a huge leap in production from 2nd year at wideout to 3rd. Hester is in this position now. He has a new, stud QB to get him the ball. What will his leap be? Nobody knows, but I’m optimistic that he’ll get to 80 receptions.
by MuleTrain on Jun 15, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you took my 50 receptions thing too litteraly
point is that using wes welker is not an apples to apples comparison. there are to GIGANTIC differences in that comparison. the others are apt.
but you cannot compare welker to other #1’s as he doesn’t get treated like other number 1s. that means that he will not have the best defender covering him or will get get double teamed. so, he thrived under a completely different set of circumstances.
as well, he went from being some average to mediocre wr to being a fantasy football stud when he upgraded to playing with tom brady (07) and Randy Moss. And playing for a team taht doesn’t run the ball.
his situation is 100% different than ever other wide receiver listed.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. it is relevant as #1s get double teamed more often than slot receivers
Welkers jump in prodcution came after jumping to a team with the best wide receiver and the best qb in hte league.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok i'll bite
not because my last post in the anti-attack thread was banned (oh the irony) … but because tempchad has a point here. Welker is not a No. 1 WR – not on the Patriots and not on any other NFL team – except maybe this one were he to play here. While the post is well thought and statistically sourced – you cannot compare Welker’s numbers to other true No. 1’s because he is not the same caliber receiver.
That said, you could compare Welker’s numbers to Hester’s because Hester should be a No. 2 — and on any other team except the Bears, he would be. Welker gets a lot of touches due to double-teams on Moss and because Brady has the ability to use everyone on the field. Hester can make a leap in catches, yards, TDs … but it’s going to be because other receivers are contributing at a higher rate, which they should given Cutler’s presence.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
by junkhorse on Jun 15, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welker
is a great guy to have on your team, if you have a real #1 WR to run with him. Welker is excellent at taking advantage of the openings created by the real #1 receiver. Could Welker recreate his recent numbers on the Bears? Doubtful as the Bears have no one even remotely like a #1 WR.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 16, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally a sane post from someone other than me
thank you sir
by tempchad on Jun 16, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd settle for a true #1 level performance
To me the “elite” receivers in this league are guys like Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, etc. and while it would be great if he ever reached that level, I’d settle for a solid #1 type of season. The only problem, and it has nothing to do with your research, with comparing him to the guys listed is that almost all of them have or had really good complimentary receivers that takes some pressure off of them. I’m not convinced that Hester is a true #1, but I’m not convinced he couldn’t be either. If one or more of the younger guys comes in and have good years, Devin has no excuses. This is the year he needs to prove he’s the guy or that needs to be the priority for next off-season.
by BearFan611 on Jun 15, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Big Difference
A pocket passer plays differently from a Qb that will run if everyone is covered, linebackers become wary and have to pick their poison cover the rb/te or play run support and get burned, either way its a good situation for Hester since he’s our homerun in the bottom of the ninth he has the speed to get behind the safety double him up Knox is on the other side…….. Damn can’t wait to see my boys take the trophy this year!!!!!
by payton#34 on Jun 15, 2009 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
will never be a true #1
He doesn’t have it upstairs if you know what I mean. I don’t think him and Cutler wil have that connection that great QB-WR combos have. He will do okay but will never be more than a number 2.
by tfrabotta on Jun 15, 2009 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not upstairs...
Have you ever listened to Smith, Moss, and OchoCinco talk. I’ve had more inspired conversations with walls.
by chase17 on Jun 15, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
football smart is not the same are book smarts
lots of real dumb athletes have a great understanding of the game.
by tempchad on Jun 15, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, if only amazingly smart people were successful in the NFL
Craig Krenzel would still be our starter…
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
by ThorCo on Jun 15, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Love This Post
The comparison of Steve Smith to Devin Hester is one Ive been making to my friends since Devin was drafted. If you look at how they came into the league, each were considered explosive kick returners their rookie years and as Mule Train points out each had similar records in their 1st and 2nd years at Wide Receiver (even though Hester played three years, hes only played two at wide receiver). But the most telling comparison of Steve Smiths jump from year 2 to year 3 at Wide receiver, where he absolutely exploded was the change at a certain position and that was at Quarterback (from Rodney Peete to Jake Delhomme) so just like Smith, Hester will enjoy an upgrade at Quarterback as well. Hopefully he can put up the same numbers Smith started to put up.
by ANYTIME09 on Jun 15, 2009 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
HE'S THE COMPARISON I'VE USED SINCE THE BEGINNING TOO...
but the only problem with that is… he’s the only one you CAN compare him to… no other KR specialist has ever been able to make that leap to elite WR… every other experiment basically failed.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Point
No doubt Hester still has alot to learn. I mean people forget that he didnt even play Wide Receiver in college. So to learn the most basic nuances of the position in the NFL must have been tough on him. But considering he wasnt supposed to be the #1 receiver going into last year I thought he did a good job. Not to mention all the double teams he got. But one thing that separates Smith from Hester that you cant teach is how Smith goes up and fights for the ball. Hes one of the most physical “little guys” Ive ever seen. Hester needs to learn to do that if he wants to be ELITE so to speak. But just think how good he could be if we had Plax taking those double teams. Im not ruling out the POSSIBILITY of one of these young guys stepping up and becoming a threat. It would just be alot easier if we had a guy of Plaxs mold (on the field not off)
by ANYTIME09 on Jun 15, 2009 2:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Devin Hester has to make the leap to being "good" first
Some of you get WAY carried away in your assessment of Devin Hester. His greatest feature as a wide receiver in 2008 was drawing the yellow flag. Yet there are some of you that want to suggest he is on the cusp of being “elite”?
Good grief.
You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little messed up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?
by BLou on Jun 15, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
His greatest feature as a wide receiver in 2008 was drawing the yellow flag
With Cutler’s arm strength and ability to extend the play, and an improved pass pocket, he’ll be able to draw yellow flags for much longer gains this year!
"They tried to take out the quarterback, and if they managed that, they tried to take out the backup." - Bears SB20 TE Emery Moorehead, on the mentality of *that* defense
by Spongie on Jun 15, 2009 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually,
since Hester can’t outrun Jay’s gun, they’ll be receptions instead of flags…
hey man, you got a j? No? You'd be a lot cooler if you did...
by ChiTown2ShineIn'09 on Jun 15, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there are some of us who want to suggest he is on the cusp of being elite...
I think ALL of us want to suggest he is on the cusp of being elite.
Now, whether or not we’re living in la-la land when we make that suggestion is another story.
The point is: As Bears fans, this seems like a great year for Hester to break out and the precedent for similarly styled wide outs to do that has already been set— many times over.
With regards to your suggestion that Hester is “Not good.” If you look at his production with a fairly lame offense in the last six games (the period when the coaches say things started clicking for him) he was really quite good. I posted that earlier and don’t want to go redo my calculations but the point was those numbers extrapolated over a 16 game season would have given him nearly 1K yards and 70 rec. Bump that up by 10% with a Cutler out there and you’re looking at an 1100 yard 80 catch season. That’s good.
by The Kaiser on Jun 15, 2009 3:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The pressure sure is there
If the fans and coaching staff aren’t putting enough pressure on Devin, I am sure he is putting it on himself. I think/hope he will put up 1,000 yard this year on about 80 receptions. A lot depends on how Olsen, Bennett, Iglesias, etc play. If they can spread the defense out, there will be more room for Devin to work.
We all WANT him to do well and BELIEVE he can, but he needs to run crisper routes and eventually will need to go over the middle because teams will just cover the outside on him if he doesn’t.
by brands735 on Jun 15, 2009 4:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
as long as cutler leads him, he'll split safeties all day!!!
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 15, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hester already is figuring it out.
Check out last year’s game log
Week… 12.. 13.. 14.. 15.. 16.. 17.. 6-gm 16g season
Rec’s… 5… 3… 5…. 4… 2… 6… 25….. 67
Yrds… 57.. 67.. 80.. 46.. 12.. 85.. 347…. 925
yd/r… 11.4. 22.3 16 11.5 6. 14.2. 13.9….. xx
*Sorry about the sucky formatting — coudn’t figure out how to do a table
This is last year.. with Orton as QB, who was injured and getting sacked a bunch. It even includes that really bad week 16 against GB so you can’t say it’s just a lucky string of games. BTW, that’s better than Marshall’s rd/rec of 12.2 (11.3 in the last 6 games), Denver’s #1 receiver, with Cutler at QB (his total yards was 462 yards on 41 completions).
Folks, I think the kid’s ready.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jun 15, 2009 7:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hester definitely got better
as the season went along. he was much crisper on routes and seemed to know what he was doing. give him a stud QB and an improved o-line, i think you’ll get a pretty good receiver this year. i don’t know if he’s going to be a “#1” this season, but my guess is he’ll have at least 70-80 receptions for over 1,000 yards.
by guy incognito on Jun 16, 2009 12:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hester = Gault
For my money, Hester is like Willie Gault was twenty years ago, not a great receiver, definitely not a #1 WR, but a very dangerous one that defenses have to account for whenever he is on the field.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 16, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree with your overall sentiment here but i'd take willie gault over devin hester any day.
by tempchad on Jun 16, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thus far, so would I in a heart beat.
Gault didn’t take as much time to come into his own at wideout, but he had someone who was actually acurate down the field.
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jun 16, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
granted he did spend his whole life playing that position
so there was no transformation to be had. however, he played wr his whole life because coaches saw that he had the necessary skill set.
I was told that I ruined this house with my anger
by tempchad on Jun 16, 2009 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really want to see Hester and Knox at the same time.
Cutler will hit one as long as they can both get off the line in decent shape.
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jun 16, 2009 6:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hester will silence his critics
I think Devin will become the next Steve Smith, they both started as return guys, are built the same, although there are some differences. Smith was in a system were they threw more than they ran, and had a Qb with ability to get him the ball, Delhomme is a helluva lot better QB than Rex or Kyle. Now Devin has Cutler who is a helluva lot better than Delhomme, and Devin is faster than Smith. I see Devin with 87 catches, 1143 yards, and 11 TD’s.
by touchdown bears on Jun 16, 2009 7:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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