The 10 Most Important Bears in 2009 - #10
by wiltfongjr on Jun 30, 2009 11:00 AM CDT
37 comments
In this ongoing series, I'll look at which Bears I think will need to contribute the most in 2009 for them to have a successful season. Some things I thought about when compiling this list were: what potential impact they may have, how much the team will look to the individual for guidance or leadership, how badly the team would suffer if they lost the player to injury, and other intangible attributes. Hopefully this series will spark some good off-season Bears discussion!
#10 - Nathan Vasher - Cornerback
Nate Vasher is a good fit in the Cover 2. He's not the fastest or the the most physical, but he has real good ball skills and he has good route recognition. I'm not buying the hype over him being "The Interceptor" (I think Charles Tillman is the best corner on the roster), but I can't deny his impact when he's in the lineup.
The CB depth took a hit with Corey Graham being moved to safety. I though Graham was a nice fit last year at corner, and I do think he will end up eventually starting at FS. If Vasher falters, the Bears will have to turn to Trumaine McBride, untested Zackary Bowman, or rookie D.J. Moore.
I thought McBride played OK in his limited starts the last 2 years (9 in '06 & 1 in '07), I was high on Bowman out of Nebraska last year, and I think Moore will develop into a player the Bears can count on, but the Bears don't need any more unknowns in their secondary in 2009. I'm sure Graham is at safety for good now, especially after seeing how the position switching stunted the development of Danieal Manning (see: DMS), so the days of Graham at corner are over.
The Bears need Nate Vasher to stay healthy (he hasn't played all 16 games since 2005) and play a solid corner. It was only a few years ago the Bears were thought to have one of the better corner tandems in the league.
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just taking a stab in the dark but I'm guessing cutler is gonna be number 1
what are the intervals between posts gonna be?
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Jun 30, 2009 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ll post these every Tuesday and Thursday… so you’ll have to wait 5 weeks to see #1!
p.s. Here’s a hint… it won’t be Josh Bullocks!
by wiltfongjr on Jun 30, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing...
Tommie Harris at 1, if he plays like his old self, then I believe are defense returns to being dominant, if he doesn’t then the D is going to be average/weak.
by chase17 on Jun 30, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TH- #2 and Sizzle at #1
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jul 1, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll wait
Nice job on the post and upcoming ones, but I think Vasher should be higher on this list. If he can get back to his stellar play then it will only have a trickle down effect to the rest of the defensive secondary.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I’ve seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!" - Homer
by propheteer on Jun 30, 2009 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm with you.
It could be argued he’s top five.
I eagerly await the rest wiltfongjr!
by rdent4hof on Jun 30, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the list should provide some good back and forth til training camp starts!
by wiltfongjr on Jun 30, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i immediately placed him at #5 when i started reading...
i think the only thing that pushes him back is:
how badly the team would suffer if they lost the player to injury
as stated, we have a little(not alot) of depth at CB, but i’m not sold that, even with depth, that he’s only #10 on the list, that spot would’ve been reserved for bennett on my list… interesting to see the other 9
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jul 1, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so true
when vasher is healthy and at his best hes a savage ballhawk that we really need if hes healthy this year that alone well provide HUGE boost in the secondary
by Bear Lovin 21 on Jun 30, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the cutting of Brown
is a statement by Bears managment to come to the season in shape and play through your injurys!
by luckie815 on Jun 30, 2009 12:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That might be part of it
but I think it mostly was because they just couldn’t count on him and it affects their planning. Also, as long as he was on the roster, the younger guys might not have been taken as seriously as they need to be to develop properly. The whole team relied so much on Brown that I think he needed to go just so we could move forward. It’s a shame, because he was a very good player and I’d love to see him come back in a coaching capacity.
by BearFan611 on Jun 30, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brown has the intensity
and heart to be a great coach!
by luckie815 on Jun 30, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
but theres more to coaching than fire.
You need to be a teacher.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
by Allie on Jun 30, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think where luckie815 and I are both going with this is
players and coaches alike have always referred to Mike Brown as a “coach on the field”. He seemed to be the one who showed everyone in the secondary where they were supposed to be and what their assignments were. With that in mind, we’re making the assumption that those abilities would carryover to a full time coaching position. My guess is that he is very similar to Singletary in that respect.
by BearFan611 on Jun 30, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being a player leader and being a coach
are world’s apart.
I’m not saying he can’t do it… just that its different.
Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. -George Halas
by Allie on Jun 30, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right it is different, but we'll never know unless he gets the chance
and I’d rather that be with the Bears than with another team. Again, the Singletary reference.
by BearFan611 on Jun 30, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Number One is....
Tommie Harris hands down…..
by tfrabotta on Jun 30, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I agree that Tommie Harris is probably #1. I also think that THE ENTIRE D-LINE will have to step it up or dudes like Vash and Peanut will be in a tough bind. Let’s not forget that alot of time has been invested in Anderson and I believe this is a contract year for him and Wale. It has always amazed me what a crapshoot the draft is! Not unlike gambling (ummm…not that I condone that), you see just enough flashes of brilliance and bank on the jackpot (ie… consistent play!) With Vasher, its all about his health. Hopefully he’ll stay healthy and these younger guys can continue to learn.
Getcha Beernuts Ready!
by Fly1965 on Jul 1, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vash
He has to prove he is healthy. When he is he is a huge part of the d.
Howie
by howie360 on Jun 30, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If we're extending this beyond players then I think Lovie is #1
The defense has to rebound or Cutler is just window dressing and now Lovie is the D-coordinator, so he has to be the most important.
by BearFan611 on Jun 30, 2009 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There may be a coach or two along the way…
tune in Thursday for #9!
by wiltfongjr on Jun 30, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overrated
Good post – they’re doing this on Buffalo’s board as well — I find it as a way to break up the offseason monotony.
Vasher is overrated … the Bears have paid too much for too little production. He can’t tackle and can’t intercept anything unless it’s thrown directly to him. Lovie keeps hoping he’ll be a decent CB, but he keeps getting nicked up and honestly, at this point, I could careless if the Bears cut or ship his ass out of town. He got paid and that’s all he wanted.
I’d rather have Bowman or D.J. Moore start opposite Peanut this year.
Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
by junkhorse on Jun 30, 2009 2:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
personally I’ve never been a big fan of Vasher, but he does make plays… Bowman and Moore are such unknowns right now… I think the drafting of Moore will light a fire under Vasher, and reports were he looked good in OTA’s (for what ever thats worth)
by wiltfongjr on Jun 30, 2009 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vasher is a big key, but...
I think we’ve got enough depth behind him now, that we should be okay if he goes down again. He’s become another guy like Mike Brown and Dusty Dvoracek – don’t hold your breath and count on him playing a full season. But if he does stay healthy, that will be a big plus for the defense…
by JimmyMack on Jun 30, 2009 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
way underrated
Tommie Harris should be number 1 along with urlacher and you can make a case for forte
by bears rock on Jun 30, 2009 2:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think with all of the question marks being our WR, you could make a case that Hester is in top 3
If you live in Chicago you are a bears fan, if you move from chicago you stay a bears fan, if you move to chicago you will be a bears fan.
by chi-town on Jun 30, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta disagree...
Love the post, your thought into this, and the idea!
However, the idea that Vasher is the 10th most important thing in 2009 when the PASS DEFENSE was the most deplorable thing in the 2008 season (even worse than the WRs) is just wrong.
I pass by this board quite often and love reading what you guys at WCG have on the thread for the day. I think your writers are very passionate and creative. However, we’ve discussed in depth NUMEROUS times how bad the pass defense was and placed the blame on everyone from Tommie Harris to Bob Babich.
The loss of Nathan Vasher for most of the 2008 season was a HUGE obstacle for this team and should be much higher on your priority list.
Its higher than Cutler (the Beas went 9-7 with Orton and an anemic passing game), higher than WRs (see Cutler comment), and its higher than the pass rush we can get from Tommie Harris ALONE (the DTs combined effort last season still were able to get to the QB 10+ times last season; on average with what they have done in the past two seasons).
Having a healthy and FOCUSED Nathan Vasher is imperative to the Cover 2.
BTW— Charles Tillman is NOT the best corenr on this team. This has been proven TIME AND TIME again since 2006. He is constantly targeted by QBs regardless of the side of the field he is on. He doesn’t have good recognition skills, nor does he have good recovery speed. He is a sure tackler and creates turnovers. I have championed for YEARS for him to be moved to FS, but the money is at CB (so he stays put).
If you need an example of how poor he is, look at the first quarter play summary of the Falcons game last year.
by ChicagoMarine on Jun 30, 2009 3:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It all depends what value you place on each positions in the Bears version of the Cover 2 in regards to pass defense… Lovie will get the team back to that, Babbich blitzed way to much and subsequently didn’t run the Cover 2 that much, he had the corners playing off even when in man to man
I think Moore will be able to step in and be OK if Vasher is hurt again, I just don’t know for sure
great feedback thanks!
by wiltfongjr on Jun 30, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1st Quarter
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5359/falcons1.png
Very interesting the “best CB” is being targeted on all of these passes when a regular starter in Vasher is out with an injury and they don’t attack the inexperienced CB’s, but instead go after Tillman. 6 of 9 passes went Tillman’s way, all 6 going for completions amassing an eye-popping 86 yards. Good stuff ChicagoMarine.
by Bear_Down on Jun 30, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a box score and numbers really only tell part of the story…
Were they in the Mug look thus exposing them to the slant, were they in cover 3 and the underneath help was late, were they in cover 2 and the safety didn’t help over the top quick enough, did Babbich have the corners playing 10 yards off the ball all year…
The coaching staff, to a man, say Tillman is their best corner… if he’s not who is? And please don’t come with Bowman or Moore until we have a chance to see them play.
by wiltfongjr on Jul 1, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Tillman isn't the Best Cornerback on the Bears....
Wasn’t it Hamilton who gave up that last pass? If Tillman isn’t the Best Cornerback on the team, who is? Per Scout.com, Tillman ranked #16 in Passes Defended with a total of 17. http://sdg.scout.com/a.z?s=102&p=3&blipid=13716
I don’t seem remember Tillman him being thrown at all of the time. But I do remember a ton of blitzes. And not all of them were from the LBs. Do all of the other game stats bear the same conclusion?
Getcha Beernuts Ready!
by Fly1965 on Jul 1, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Fly1965 & wiltfongjr
Please understand that I am not putting Tillman down as a defender. I think he a solid secondary guy who has a knack for creating turnovers and making sure tackles when in the open field.
What I am challenging you all to come to terms with is something that I have noted for years: His coverage skills.
They are poor and have been since 2005.
For whatever reason, Tillman just does not put himself in a position to make plays on the ball once its in the air. He resorts to two methods to compensate for his lack of coverage:
1.) He plays 5-7 yds off the ball— As we have seen in most cases. This is not something that Bobo Babich installed last year, but this has been his trend since 2006. Tillman will play “too” far off the ball, giving good receivers the opportunity to double-fake or run 5 yd hooks and eat up yds in chunks as Bear_Down has shown in his table above.
2.) He plays bump coverage— Really depending on getting a good push on the receiver and help coming over the top. Now, many of the BIG PLAYS that have hurt the Bears from him playing like this is not entirely his fault (See Bears-Colts 2006 Superbowl; Reggie Wayne TD), but there is a common theme of Peanut Tillman getting burned quite often when he tries to bump the receiver and him being burned up top (i.e.— Steve Smith playoff game).
Again, I’m not saying that there aren’t other factors in this equation (DL pressure, Cover Two vs Spread, Bob Babich), but if you look at the history of opposing offenses against the Bears defense… and you look at their pass direction… you’ll see a common theme of aiming throws at Peanut Tillman on BOTH sides of the field. Take it back to 2006 if you have to. In fact, I believe footballoutsiders.com wrote a piece on the tandem and this trend several years ago.
He just doesn’t anticipate what the receiver is trying to do and how to get to where the QB is throwing. Nathan Vasher is solid at providing that type of coverage. His lack of size has been his downfall.
by ChicagoMarine on Jul 1, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that Tillman’s coverage skills (looked at in isolation) are mediocre, at best.
Not that it excuses it, but just to point out that he always gets the top dog WR to cover, too.
Re: Bowman—camp reports had him playing lights out through OTAs (for whatever that’s worth).
The feeling is, he has the potential to be a BIG time playmaker. We’ll see what he does in pre-teasin’. (typo intentional)
Bear down.
by Amishbear on Jul 2, 2009 10:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amishbear!
Good to see you over here from time to time
by wiltfongjr on Jul 2, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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