Eric Peterman vs Rashied Davis - WR showdown
by Jacob Hayes on Jun 8, 2009 3:01 PM CDT
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Alright, I figured I'd take the time to do a quick breakdown of what I think should be the true offensive battle in training camp, the battle for the sixth WR spot. Rank the rest of the wide receivers however you please, but of all the news actually coming out of the Bears camp points to the Bears being fairly happy with all of their rookies so far. There is also a lot being made about the older "rookie" Rideau for the first time since he joined the team.
With Hester guaranteed the WR1 position, and Bennett's 2nd year status, combined with his history with Cutler, that leaves three or four WR slots open. Between Rideau/ Igleasis/ Knox who have all received rave reviews so far; that likely takes care of three more slots. To me that leaves us at a battle between the much maligned veteran and the blank slate rookie, and today I'm going to try to let us take a better look at this match up and what I think would be the more beneficial option for our team.
Tale of the Tape: There is a little bit of difficulty here getting a straight across comparison due to the lack of 40 times I've been able to find on Rashied coming out of college. However Peterman's 40 time at his pro day averaged a 4.46 with a three cone time of 6.58, which was one of the best in the draft. Peterman stands at 6-1, and weighs in at a solid 200lb. Rashied measures out at 5-9 and weighs in at a compact 187.
Special Teams Prowess: Both players are capable special teams players, and able to play all four phases to one extent or another. Rashied Davis's stand out ST contribution is usually seen as his above average return skills and usually sure tackling. Peterman is a four tier special teamer out of Northwestern who fielded returns as well, but his best contribution was as a gunner.
Ability at WR: Both players have had success in one form or another prior to joining the Bears. Davis led the AFL champion Sabercats in all purpose yards in '04, and caught 46 passes for 484 yards and 4 TD. Since then, he's been really hit and miss with a few outstanding plays and a lot of dropped balls. Here is his statline since 2006.
2008 CHI 16 35 445 12.7 36 2 1 10.0 2007 CHI 16 17 165 9.7 36 0 12 14.0 2006 CHI 16 22 303 13.8 31 2 32 23.5
Peterman was a productive player for Northwestern since his Freshman year starting on ST, and after some experimentation his sophmore year at DB, he began playing WR fulltime. Over his four years he became seventh on the all time receptions list and TD list, and fourth on the all time yardage list at NU. Ended up as a starting inside WR and ended his college career with 29 straight games with a reception. His stats at WR were as follows.
YEAR REC YDS AVG LNG TD ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST 2005 12 181 15.1 67 2 1 -1 -1.0 0 0 0 0 2006 23 349 15.2 52 1 3 8 2.7 4 0 0 0 2007 66 744 11.3 70 3 13 58 4.5 21 0 0 0 2008 59 737 12.5 53 6 5 4 0.8 15 0 0 0
For Your Viewing Pleasure: Here are a couple of YouTube highlight reels so that everyone can get some Peterman and Davis fresh on their minds before we dig into the Droppapotamus vs The Great Unknown grudge match. Sadly, I know Davis has more highlights than this but even after scouring I couldn't find hardly anything for him. Poor guy.
Conclusion: I'm going to get straight to the point and then explain why. I think Peterman is a much better choice for the final WR spot than Davis. Davis's claim to fame on ST is returns, which we're pretty much set at with Hester and Manning stepping up last year. The rest of his ST game is average to above average, and as most of this board and others agree, his issue with drops at the WR position almost entirely negate some of the clutch catches he has had. I've never seen anything spectacular carry over from his return game, like elusiveness, to the slot position.
I'm not saying that Peterman is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but he does offer some of the same things that Davis does. He's above average to average in all aspects of ST, while excelling as a gunner instead of returns. He has more size and bulk than Rashied making for a bit more powerful receiver, and likely better on the goal line as well. He also doesn't seem to have the same history of drops as Davis in anything I could find. Another small thing to note is that Davis would be making somewhere along the lines of eight times what Peterman would be making for the same backup role.
Considering how little a third string WR is going to see the field, having a good sized four phase STer in that position would be a huge boon allowing us to develop him while contributing. On the flip side of this argument, it doesn't help us much having Davis sitting around playing nothing but ST if the entire point is for him to be teaching our young players. Speaking of that, I'm not so sure I want him teaching them much of anything. I really fear his level of the dropsies is contagious. However, there was already a nice long Davis bashing article that was very informative a few days ago.
So what does everyone else think? Is Peterman the right call, or should we stick with the guy we know in Davis?
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Hmmmm....
The way I see it, there are 3 locks for only 5 spots (the Bears typical roster allocation):
1. Hester
2. Bennett
3. Iglesias
So, you’ll have Davis, Knox, Rideau, Peterson, Kinder, and the possibility of a newly signed veteran vying for two spots. If the Bears want to keep 6, they’re going to sacrifice depth somewhere else on the roster, and it’s likely not going to come from the defensive side of the ball. So, you’re looking at dropping a TE (they’ll likely stick with 3), a RB (Peterson or Wolfe), or going with only 2 QBs.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Just a small side note...
The were carrying 6 WR at the beginning of last year, so it’s not unfathomable that they keep a 6th this year if he’s good STer.
True... they had 6 to start the season, until they cut Bradley.
When they cut him, they added a DB (Marcus Hamilton). But… for the most part they’ve been going with 5.
With the safety and CB situation the way it is… I don’t picture them going with less DBs. Competition at LB is very strong and will be a numbers game there to get down to their usual 6 or 7. And on the D-line… well, half their off-season focus is to get a pass rush out of a strong rotation, so there’s no skimping that part of the roster either.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
6 WRs
They’ve been carrying 6 WRs for many years now.
"I'm not so mean. I wouldn't ever go out to hurt anybody deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." - Dick Butkus
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
1 will likely make the practice squad so, 6-7 if you count that spot.
Kick it to me... I'm open!
by #23 on Jun 8, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
It would have to be a monumentally bad preseason
for Bennet to be cut.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
My 6 (if they go with 6 instaed of 5)
WR1: Hester
WR2: Bennett
Slot: Davis/ Iglesias
Depth: Rideau/ Knox (Only Rideau if they keep 5)
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
+1, it sounds like he has out performed everyone so far at WR, well except Hester
Kick it to me... I'm open!
by #23 on Jun 8, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
From what I hear...
It will be Hester, Bennett, Davis, Iglesias, Knox, and Kinder.
Look for Derek Kinder to be a stud
BEAR DOWN!
Who told you that? Wanny? LOL.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
My baseless prediction:
Kinder ends up on the PUP list because of his “knee” issue. They like him, but he’s not going to beat out Iglesias, Knox, or Ridueau, so the “red shirt” him.
That would be good..
because I think Kinder could be one of the surprises of this draft in the future.
Kinder will be like donald driver
because he was supposed to be a first rounder until that huge knee injury jacked him up. I think he will be on the pup for a year and then on the practic squad for 2 years.
I'd rather have Peterman from Seinfeld than Rashied
by BearFan611 on Jun 8, 2009 3:45 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
You may know it as Myanmar
but it will always be Burma to me
If God had wanted man to play soccer, he wouldn't have given us arms.- Mike Ditka
by Hurricanes becoming Bears on Jun 8, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice!!!
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jun 10, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Kinder...
Will be nice to have on the practice squad.
I hope it is Hester/Bennett/Knox/Inglasis/Rideau and then PLAX!
lmao
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
i go to the high school peterman went to sacred heart-griffin. so my vote is obvious but i would like to say peterman is a great story. he used to puke before high school games and would be sonervous/excited for the game. he also played qb at shg. wildcat? peterman is younger and a better pick
i know, im just saying, half serious of course, hester would be our wildcat qb. but peterman is bigger and more athletic than davis. davis has proven himself by droppin balls and doing nothing but being a mediocre WR at best.
Love the caps. :)
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
REALLY!!!
Who caught the last TD against the Falcons? Who got about 100 yards in 1 game this year that was on the bears? Im sure Peterman didnt. Peterman 90% of the time caught screens and mini passes which is BULLSHIT to make the NFL. The best that crappy Peterman will do is be a good ST, THATS IT!!!
funny
I used to puke to keep my weight down. I guess Peterman and I have something in common. :)
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
underwear model
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
by Ditkavsworld on Jun 9, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just spit pop all over my screen, thanks for that
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
Davis is way better than peterman
Davis is more experienced, a decent slot(look at his receptions and TDs instead of the drops because Peterman would drop way more passes[peterman wont ever make a good or decent WR, only a sucker at it]), and they both are good at ST but Davis has proved himself already. Davis IS better.
This is where I am going to diagree somewhat...
You’re entitled to your opinion, but WAY better is definately a stretch. I’d hope he was better in some way, shape, or form considering he has over five years of experience on Peterman, including NFL game experience.
As far as the evidence backing up your opinion goes, 4 td over 3 years isn’t exactly outstanding. Also, he had a ton of drops compared to how many times he was targeted. A slot WR that drops the ball isn’t worth much.
Davis is way better than.....???
"The cup is not half empty and neither is the cup half full. The cup's just too damn big." -George Carlton
Davis vs. Peterman
If Davis beats out Peterman it is more of an indictment of Peterman’s ability than an endorsement of Davis’s. Davis is a marginal player. His best contribution to the team has been special teams play, not receiving. Hester, Bennett, and Iglesias are locks. Knox, Rideau, Davis, Peterman and Kinder fight it out for the 4th and 5th spots. As has been said by others here, Kinder would seem likely to be “redshirted” this year. Finally, no one should be surprised if they acquire a veteran WR.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 9, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
He is not very talented
but at least he knows the playbook. Sorry, but I’d rather not have 4 rookie WRs on the roster. Look how little Bennett was able to accomplish as a rookie last year. Davis is a sure thing; he won’t be good, but he can be a half-decent 3rd guy.
If Davis is the 5th WR on the roster
it is not a disaster. But let’s be honest, Davis just is not that good.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
He's not
But he is a sure thing. He will at least give some production, which can’t be said out of any rookie (case and point-Earl Bennett last year).
Let's not even pretend that Davis and Marshall should be compared.
TO has a lot of drops as well, but unless Davis growns 18" becomes a threat to score on every play, becomes an amazing red zone target or something, that stat will never matter.
That said, I would rather have Davis, a guy that knows the offense and has experience playing this year instead of Peterman. If we have an injury or two at WR, I feel better about Davis. Plus he played much better in the slot in the previous years than on the outside last season. He was out of position and he suffered. Finally Davis is also a good special teams contributor. Maybe not better than Peterman, but no slouch.
I predict Davis his experience to be more valuable to the team and thus he will make the team.
Kick it to me... I'm open!
by #23 on Jun 8, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
c'mon dude
Marshall got targetted a ton more times than Davis too. I bet Marshall got thrown to twice as much as Davis and only had 4 more drops. Just look at the discrepancy in receptions. Quit bringing up irrelevant comparisons. Davis is not good, never was, never will be. He was a “hole-filler” for a long time because we didn’t have a good QB so what point would having good WRs be? Now we have a Pro-Bowl QB and we need size and talent. While talent between Peterman and Davis can be debated, size can’t. Regardless, I predict the Bears go with Hester, Bennett, Iglesias, Knox, Rideau, and unfortunatley Davis (Lovie is a homer).
How many balls
were thrown at each? If you are trying to equate Davis with Marshall, you need to pay more attention.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 9, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
A couple of things...
The reply button really isn’t that hard to use, try clicking it at some point.
Secondly, Marshall was on a team with no RB and no defense and was the go to target for his QB. Have you even started to think that those 11 drops were on a large amount more targetted attempts than Davis’s attempts? I’d give you the exact numbers but I don’t have access to FFToolbox where I am currently.
Davis might be better than Peterman at the slot now...
But you’d be hard pressed to find a whole lot of people that want Davis to be starting ahead of three or four other WR on the team. My point is that if Davis is going/should be riding the pine, then why have someone that is at best an equal on ST, and has zero upside? We’ve seen what Davis can do, and the majority of people do NOT like it.
Peterman will never be good at any position as a receiver
He can only contribute as a special teamer… What does Davis do tooo bad? Nothing. He drops passes but thats only when he plays outside. When he plays slot he is a true veteran player. I cant believe everyone is seeing whos better between Peterman and Davis. The arguement should be between Iglesias and Davis. THIS ARGUEMENT IS THE STUPIDEST POST ON WINDY CITY GRIDIRON!!!
I can name a lot of things he does badly...
He drops too high a percentage of passes, no matter where he is. He doesn’t get good seperation, which is why he does much better out of the slot. He seems a bit skiddish going over the middle and taking the hit from time to time. He isn’t a tall target and disappears in short yardage/goal line situations. He rarely gets any YAC which is mindboggling considering he was primarly a returner who should have a general idea of how to get a least a few extra yards now and then.
Now with that said, please give me the winning lottery numbers if you would since you seem to have the ability to see into the future. I left out the first year of Davis’s pro-ball because he did practically nothing. If you’d like to compare, at least in Peterman’s first year of college ball after converting from QB he got a few TD as a true freshman.
Davis is a former AFL standout returner who has been somewhat lackluster since joining the NFL. To act like Peterman has zero chance to improve at a position is patently absurd, just like expecting Davis to drop fewer balls when they come at him MUCH harder than they did last year just because he is running different routes is absurd too.
Guess what?
Davis catches more passes than he drops(he catches most of the passes that come to him, I can prove it). And its not like if youre a slot WR you suck. Slot is a major part of the position. Davis is a good slot like i have been saying. PETERMAN DOES NOT HAVE ANY WOW STATS IN HIS COLLEGE CAREER. If you are good in college than you have a CHANCE at being good in the league. If you dont put too much numbers up in college, you dont have more than a 5% chance of being good in the league. And if you go to a school like Northwestern to play, you should catcch an avearge of 8-10 TDs a year.
And Davis was so great in college...
That he couldn’t even get signed to a FA deal with a NFL team. He played for WLAC his first few years, and even after that he played in the WAC. He didn’t really do that well in college, and that was against teams at a much lower level of competition. Do you really want to get into a debate about college stats when your player played for West LA college? I bet that game against Oxnard was real tough.
So by your standard, since Davis wasn’t even good enough to get a single team interested with his college play, does that mean that you concede that Davis can’t be good in the league?
does that mean that you concede that Davis can’t be good in the league?
I doubt it; Zoro seems to have a real bee in his bonnet about Davis.
"They tried to take out the quarterback, and if they managed that, they tried to take out the backup." - Bears SB20 TE Emery Moorehead, on the mentality of *that* defense
haha zoro is a comedian
“Davis catches more passes than he drops(he catches most of the passes that come to him, I can prove it).”
Just funny. If thats how someone justifies someone being good? He isn’t worth the money.
Davis might be better than Peterman,
but that does not make him a good player, that is the real point. Davbis is a marginal plater, hopefully the Bears find someone better and cut Davis.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 9, 2009 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Brad Biggs has some encouragement for Davis...
here:
Q: You wrote on Friday that Rashied Davis was a "likely candidate’’ to make the 53-man roster this season. Why? Didn’t he prove he didn’t belong last season?
A: Davis certainly didn’t shine in his opportunity as a starter last season. He had far too many drops and Davis would be the first one to admit it. But he was not being used at his best position—the slot. That wasn’t his fault. If he can regain his confidence, there’s no reason to think he can’t catch 45 balls or more with Jay Cutler in place now. Davis is a sound route runner who has the quickness and speed to be effective working underneath and in the middle of the field. Drops were not an issue for him in the past. He’s a good presence in the locker room, he could have his role expanded on special teams too. Davis should have the opportunity to be more productive with less playing time. He led all wideouts in playing time last season and that is unlikely to happen again.
"They tried to take out the quarterback, and if they managed that, they tried to take out the backup." - Bears SB20 TE Emery Moorehead, on the mentality of *that* defense
Anyone who says Davis is good...
is in denile. He isn’t good, he is below-average at best and would be hard pressed to make any other NFL team’s roster. How can you say Peterman can’t be better than Davis? Someone who hasn’t had the opportunity to prove themselves against someone who has proven themselves to be bad. LOL. Peterson has my vote for making the team over Davis, because we know what Davis is and we don’t know what Peterson could be… away from the AFL Davis has done jack and I don’t expect that to change.
Want to know what Davis does bad? Playing wide receiver in the NFL. The dude has poor size, mediocre speed, and very inconsistent hands. You say Brandon Marshall dropped more passes? Check how many passes were thrown to him compared to Davis, not to mention the fact he was on a pass happy offense and was a solid #1 probably covered by the other teams #1 cover corner.
DeNile.... that big river in Egypt.
Maybe Davis and Peterman should take a long swim there….
"The cup is not half empty and neither is the cup half full. The cup's just too damn big." -George Carlton
PETERMAN SUCKS, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT
hes gonna be on the practice squad with a 85% chance, cut 15% chance and 0% to make the roster.
If they don't get a vet...
They keep Davis, because they need at least one guy who can grasp the playbook! : (
Someone has to tell Hester where to line up. Right?
wouldn't it be better
to have a guy who can grasp the ball, too?
by lookingdeadred on Jun 9, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think it would matter
if the guy doesn’t know where to be. I would rather throw to a guy who might drop 1 in 10, as opposed to a guy who is not there.
This is silly...
No offense SKLZ but I’m going to come down a bit on this one:
This is a ridiculous discussion.
Davis was our second best receiver last year with a very mediocre QB. In his third year playing the position, he had 35 receptions for 445 yards. That puts him at about #34 in the NFC— near the top of where you would expect a #3 WR to be.
Davis has made some good plays in his time as a Bear. Is he “good?” No, he’s average as a #3 WR and an above averate as a #4 WR.
He is good ST contributer, a hard worker and a good locker room guy with a great attitude.
Why on earth would anyone think that a UFA out of Northwestern would beat out the only experienced NFL receiver on the team (other than Hester) for a roster spot is beyond me. Aside from Hester, we do not have ONE OTHER PLAYER who has EVER caught a frickin pass in the NFL. Hello? Not a frickin pass. And you want to tell me that the one vet on the team who has even a modicum of success in this league should be replaced on the roster by an undrafted free agent out of Northwestern who is good on special teams?
Sorry. This makes NO sense.
You're coming at this from a completely different standpoint...
Step over to my side as a second. If you think that Hester/Bennett/Igleasis are all legititmately better than Davis, and if you also think that Rideau is better than Davis because he knows the palybook too and he fills a different role. If you think that Knox has shown himself to be a great young WR and deserving of the increased reps that number 5 WR will give him as well as saying he will be a good WR in the future for us that fills all five standard WR slots. Now, with that viewpoint in mind. Who is better for this team at that point as the sixth WR who is not going to see the field at WR before the third QB sees the field.
The guy who specializes at gunner and has upside, or the guy who specializes at returner who does NOT have upside. As I said before, while I hate Davis as a player these days and cringe every time a crucial pass is thrown in his direction I can concede that he may be the better WR right now. However, I do NOT think he is the better special teamer. Since the sixth WR is mostly going to be learning the playbook and playing special teams, I think a young cheap kid with upside is a much better choice.
If you think that Hester/Bennett/Igleasis are all legitimately better than Davis, and if you also think that Rideau is better than Davis because he knows the palybook too and he fills a different role…
I think Iglesias, Bennett, Rideau and Knox all have the potential to be better than Davis someday. But at this point, none of them have ever produced a single thing as a WR in an NFL regular season game. Nor has Peterman. Nor has Kinder. I don’t think you can completely overlook that. The need for some veteran presence in the receiving corps should be obvious and if, God forbid, Hester should go down, cutting Davis would leave us with nothing.
I’m totally open to a debate about any one of these guys getting the starting nod ahead of Davis. However, that is a different discussion than us cutting Davis from the team all together and replacing him with a guy like Peterman.
Exactly my point
Why would you have a undrafted player beat out a player whos played in the league for 3-4 years?
Cutting Davis would leave the Bears with ...
Potential. Which Davis doesn’t offer and keeping a potentially useful receiver off the team, who could also produce on ST, because Davis has caught a pass is silly. He isn’t a seasoned Vet, he is a seasoned backup. He is a good locker room guy and a good special teams player, but that doesn’t warrant cutting a bigger, younger, potentially decent player.
Knox, Igelsias, Bennett, Rideau...
How much potential do you need? 4 out of 6 development projects sounds like more than enough to me (too much in fact.) Why would you even consider dumping the only other vet who knows the offense, has proven success (though limited) and has been a contributor for three years with lousy QBs for a UFA?
It makes NO sense….
Bad Receivers
does NOT make a championship team either. Who’s to say he couldn’t be at least good? (which would make him better than Davis) Potential is all the Bears can rely on right now, since the obviously don’t have any sure things.
and if all goes well on the 15th???
this will all be a moot point! no way he sticks around if one of those WR spots are filled by burress… so long rasheid… don’t let the door hit ya’…
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Are you saying with Peterman we have a good WR corps?
If peterman makes the roster instead of Davis, that is the dumbest thing ever to THINK!!!
He is saying that our WR group is going to be decent without him...
And that Davis has less to offer as a #6 WR than Peterman does.
That's a pure batch of crazy...
Iglesiais has looked better than Davis pretty much every step of the way, the only thing Davis has left to give this team is failed third down conversions due to dropped balls, and if you want those boy does Davis have a deal for you.
I'm going by the reports, and comments from the coaches...
Almost every single one mentioned Knox/Igleasis/Rideau, and pretty much never a mention of Davis.
That's completely incorrect...
Rideau knows the offense quite well, and showed that in the preseason. I’d say preseason NFL games mean more than AFL games when get down to it. The only thing stunting his development at this point is a complete lack of playing time. I’ll ask you a question though since you’re asking plenty of them.
How does Davis’s veteran status help us if he is the number 6 WR? He won’t be on the field teaching them by doing, by all rights he should be getting very few reps in practice. He isn’t a extremely skilled technician at WR that is going to be able to teach well from the sidelines. What does an average to below average slot WR with zero upside give us at the #6 WR position?
Umm, pls explain..
…why he is going into his 5th season and has NEVER caught a pass in the NFL? Not “getting playing time” is not an answer since that is the coaches call and they would know far better than anyone on an internet message board on who is ready to start (much less suit up, much less even make the 53 man roster.)
If Davis is
anywhere below the #3 slot, he must be cut. Never fear “Captain Obvious” is here.
I don't follow...
Are you saying that we should give Davis a chance as the starting slot receiver but if someone outplays him and takes over the #3 role then we might as well cut him?
Pls explain why..
No one tells "Captain Obvious", he's not obvious!!!
Completely joking. You actually did a perfect job explaining my opinion. I am worn out with Davis. That being said, I still think he should get a shot at the #3. It honestly pains me to say that (REALLY). He was a soild (solid, Freudian slip) slot before and I believe he COULD be solid again. I like his experience (playbook knowledge, etc.) and his attitude. BUT, if someone beats him to the #3 in camp, he’s got to go. Mainly for cost reasons. The #4 receiver in this offense will see very limited action on the field. Therefore, I see no reason to pay Davis for a limited production, in a limited role. I would much rather see one of the young guys’ getting the reps, for football and business reasons.
I know
this contradicts many comments I’ve made about Davis. Many, many times in one way or another, I’ve said that he needs to be shown the door. Sometimes I put humor in front of my actual opinion.
now I'M confused...
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Haha.
For some reason, this response really cracked me up.
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
not some of your best work!!!
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Well, if you're thinking of cost..
…then there is no way that Davis gets cut. Cutting him now will cost the Bears over $1M in a cap hit.
I’m not even going to get into this one because it is pointless. The main point is that Davis does not deserve to get cut and replaced by Peterman as this thread suggests. Lovie and Angelo have been very clear up to this point stating that Davis is at the top of the depth chart at the slot position.
Davis is one of the only wide receivers who knows all three positions.
Cutting Davis will cost the Bears over a million.
Guys, Davis isn’t going anywhere. Better to move on and debate something else because this is the reality.
by The Kaiser on Jun 9, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
well......... technically(supposedly), so does bennett...
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
I was thinking of cost mostly.
So your point is a very good one good.
Lol... Made me think of this:
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. "Rec" comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
maybe something a little more like this!!!
g~~_1.JPG)
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Last I checked...
His contract was about 3.87 million + 1 million signing bonus. If my understanding of the cap implications on that is correct the what’s left of the 1 million bonus that hasn’t been spread already would hit at the moment he got cut, and that’s it. So yeah, about 1 million this year. Peterman would be making league minimum, which is like 260k. So, either way this year Davis is going to cost us a million at least, however if you look at the cap next year Davis would cost nothing if we cut him, while Peterman will have reached the 500k mark combining both years making for a total of 1.5mil to ditch Davis and keep Peterman. Keeping Davis means we have to pay him over 1.2mil both this year and next + prorated bonus, getting closer to 3 mil.
So yes, even with the cap hit Peterman is cheaper.
Awesomest?
Wether The Kaiser counter points or not, both of you (consistently) make for good reads (IMO).
I have a problem with Peterman
Not that I am a huge Rashied Davis fan, but Peterman did not show me anything in those videos to suggest he should be given a spot on the 53 man roster. I think we could easily sneak him onto the practice squad and I wouldnt mind him learning the position to be Davis’s overall replacement on ST.
In the videos, I had a problem with Peterman’s first step. He seemed to hesitate and secure the ball before moving forward. Securing the ball is a great idea, hesitating is not. The NFL moves so much faster than college football so if we gave him the ball on a screen pass in the NFL he would be smeared before he even knew what hit him. I just don’t think that he has enough raw talent to succeed any better than Rashied Davis.
The only thing I do like about Peterman is his YAC. He seems to have great vision and comes off as a very elusive player that isn’t afraid to run someone over every once in a while. If he is able to dodge the first defender every time, then his hesitation wouldn’t be a problem. I just don’t think that I can make that claim for an UFA.
Im not a huge Davis fan either but
I didnt see anything in those Peterman videos other than short screens… Davis is 100 times better.
Is neither an option?
Is hoping neither of them make it an option? While Peterman could be a diamond in the rough, I think Kinder has a lot bigger chance of being so. Davis is not a “veteran”. He has been in the league 4(?) years. Torry Holt would have been a veteran. Marvin Harrison (not suggesting it) would be a veteran. Davis is not a veteran and frankly, I don’t think the rookies should be learning from him. I am all for Hester, Bennett, Iglesias, KNOX, and Rideau with Kinder on the practice squad.
I definately see where you're coming from...
However, it’s much more likely that Kinder gets placed on a PUP or IR list than PS where he could be snatched.
This thread is based on the idea of the Bears carrying 6 WR on the roster, I agree with your first five all the way even if I don’t agree with the entire order.
This is what I expect WR depth chart to be
1)Burress and Hester and Bennett (on 3 reciever set)
2)Davis(slot) and Iglesias
3)Knox
No Burress
We aren’t getting Plax. I personally don’t want Plax. Do you really want to root for a player that carries loaded unregisterred guns in public? His accidental shooting could have hit a woman or another player. He is loaded enough to have a bodyguard, he doesn’t need a gun. Not to mention his work ethic stinks. He never attends summer sessions or preseason activities. He is not a team guy, he is a ME guy. He is an unbelievable talent, but I would not be proud to root for him, and Bears fans are usually the proudest. I don’t want jerks on my team to bring the city down
your facts are a bit skewed...
first off, his gun WAS registered in FL. and he and his gun have gone without incident for at least 5 years… how do i know this? there is speculation that his registration might have been expired, and up until June 11, 2008, a registration was good for 5 years…now 7, but is not retroactive. should he have had it on him, no… but being stupid isn’t a crime!
secondly, as crazy as THIS ONE sounds, you must have documented proof that you indeed can handle a firearm, only given thru state certified program. almost laughable considering, but never-the-less true.
third, here is a list of the requirements to receive a permit:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/eligible.html
quite the list of “MUST NOT’s”, and for the record,
fourth, i took the eligibility quiz and failed for multiple reason!!! ’NUFF SAID!
“FIF”, you are ABSOLUTELY 100% RIGHT about him putting other people in danger, but i’m wlling to bet that each and every one of us have been in AT LEAST ONE situation where we thanked our lucky stars that nobody else was hurt because of certain reckless actions committed. glass houses and all…
sixth, the list of veteran players in the league who don’t practice during the week is ALOT BIGGER THAN YOU THINK!
i’m not big on HOOD RATS being on our team neither, but i can’t seem to find anything that he has done to make me feel that way about him.
and as a parting gift…
Currently, Florida’s Concealed Weapon License is one of the most widely-recognized, state-issued concealed weapon permit. The resident Florida Concealed Weapon License is recognized in thirty-two different states
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
rdent4hof...
is that enough to get you off that damn fence?!?!?!
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
still dont want Plax
I see you’ve done a lot of research windycity72, but that still does not hide the fact that he is a bad seed. You cannot justify what he did. Just because other people put society in danger doesn’t mean we should forgive Plaxico for putting people in danger.
Yes Peyton Manning skips mini-camps, but Peyton Manning has MVPs to show for it. Plaxico has a bad attitude and hasn’t expressed real sorrow for his mistakes. I see your point that he is just like everyone else but he is not. No one else is dumb enough to get caught.
one thing i can't mess with!!!
you shut me up with this one:
Plaxico has a bad attitude and hasn’t expressed real sorrow for his mistakes. I see your point that he is just like everyone else but he is not. No one else is dumb enough to get caught.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
sarcasm?
Not sure but thinking you are trying out some sarcasm on the internet? You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine. In my opinion, I do not think Plax is worth the risk. He is not the kind of guy I would ever want to buy a jersey of, play next to, or coach. Further, this is a pointless argument because currently there are no connections to him.
As for the original topic: If the Bears want a veteran, re-sign Brandon Lloyd for $1M for 1 year. He’d be a better vet than Davis.
i was actually, honestly agreeing with you...
as well as the statement you made about matt jones below…and you’re right, nobody has ever proven that he was ACTUALLY BLOWING LINES!!! i was actually gonna’ use that “COKE” thing in my other post, but the facts are the facts. for future references, i NEVER succomb without just cause/reason.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
I figured I'd reply to you since you did a great job of breaking down some of the legalities...
However, it doesn’t matter what permit he had as I think it’s the mere fact that he had a handgun in NYC city limits that constituted the crime. Either way, I really doubt we see Plax as a Bear because they already released Tank for gun related issues, and I don’t see Plax taking a 1 year flyer.
yes, it does constitute a crime...
but the bigger crime is trying to keep a BIG @$$ 44 held up by the drawstring of a pair of sweats… not to mention having the safety off!!! but, i can guarantee you that i’ve found a way for it to NEVER EVER happen again!!!
http://www.thunderwearholsters.com/
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Hahahaha
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
Carrying a loaded gun into a night club screams one thing...
THUG! The guys obviously more concerned with his image as a thug than his image as an athlete. That tells me he probably a loser with a poor attitude. If they sign him I won’t complain because the man has talent, but that contract better be LOADED with behavioral clauses.
"The cup is not half empty and neither is the cup half full. The cup's just too damn big." -George Carlton
I suggest a simple test!
Have Plax draw his weapon… If he holds it sideways, DON’T sign him, as he is definately a thug and will most likely miss his intended target and perhaps shoot himself again. If he draws his weapon and uses proper technique, then he has most likely learned from his mistakes and would be a fine addition to the Bears roster. As a future precaution I would include a stipulation in his contract that would only allow him to posses one round of ammunition that must be kept in his shirt pocket when out clubbing.
by weasel27 on Jun 10, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great suggestion.
I wish I’d have thought of it myself. But two things you said rang true, all sarcasm aside. “Future precaution” and “stipulation”. Any contract he signs should address the first by containing MANY of the second.
"The cup is not half empty and neither is the cup half full. The cup's just too damn big." -George Carlton
You don't want jerks
so should they cut Briggs and Kreutz, to name a couple of jerks?
by lookingdeadred on Jun 10, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
no?
What? Irrelevant. You are comparing Briggs and Kreutz to Plax. Deduct 5 points and don’t post for 12 hours please.
that was weak
You said you don’t want jerks on the team, I would say Briggs and Kreutz qualify as jerks, and I am sure there are plenty of others. If you want a jerk free team, you are not going to have much of a team. Now get off the computer and take out the garbage like your mother has been telling you to do.
by lookingdeadred on Jun 11, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions
just a hunch
I am fairly positive Zoro is a 10 year old kid who wants a team thats going to be really good on Madden with no sense of tradition or pride in a city and a team. I would rather have Matt Jones (at a bargain) than Plax. At least Matt Jones’ troubles are years ago and they were only a threat ot himself, not others.
Yeah I'd rather have a coke addict on the team than someone who owns a gun.
I own a gun, I like to think people would be safer around me than Matt Jones.
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
Pointless
Considering Matt Jones is not a coke addict, that was a pointless comment. He has been drug tested heavily the last few years and the only substance found in his body was beer he had while on a golf course with friends. Quoting windycity from above, you think Matt Jones is the only NFL football player to do illegal drugs, you are strongly mistaken then. Are you safer than all NFL football players? Doubtful
well
cocaine only stays in your system for 72 hours… so drug tests don’t prove he wasn’t using, they just prove he wasn’t using within the past couple days of the tests… and there’s no way to determine how many of the drug tests that he passed were truly “random”
PC Load Letter? WTF does that mean?!
by ChiTown2ShineIn'09 on Jun 9, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Seeing how most NFL players aren't...
1. In the Military
2. A Reserve Police officer
I’d say I’m more qualified with a weapon than they are.
I never said I was safer than all NFL players just Matt Jones but I’d say I’m safer than 99% of them.
Matt Jones has a substance abuse problem, you know those things just don’t disapper. If you go to rehab you usually have a problem. Plaxico’s trouble and Matt Jone’s problems aren’t the same. I don’t want Jones, he’s not even close to the same caliber anyway, why settle for what Jacksonville didn’t even want.
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
and by the way
Multiple media outlets reported that alcohol was found in Jones’ system when he took a random drug test as part of a plea agreement that resolved his cocaine possession charge in July.
Most people who posess cocaine use it.
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
Some may own it for looks, or collect it like some collect "Cherished Moments"
(Asshole Sr) "If you learn one thing here, NEVER pass out in Ohio."
If plax becomes a bear than what?
Im saying it because Bears are planning on it. I would take the risk.
there is no truth to that
There is no truth or evidence as to the Bears talking with any veteran receivers. This thread is about what current Bears WRs are going to make the roster. The only two teams that admit to inquiring about Burress are the NY Jets and the Bucs. The Bears players do not speak for management. I think Cutler can make the WRs we have work. No sense in wasting money on an a-hole like Plax. I would look for Bennett to actually play the posession role that Marshall did in Denver. Hester will seemingly be more of the speedy Eddie Royal type. One thing Cutler will have in Chi that he didn’t have in Denver is Greg Olsen.
Zoro
Start using the reply button please…
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. "Rec" comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
I suggest a simple test!
Have Plax draw his weapon… If he holds it sideways, DON’T sign him, as he is definately a thug and will most likely miss his intended target and perhaps shoot himself again. If he draws his weapon and uses proper technique, then he has most likely learned from his mistakes and would be a fine addition to
Dont know what happened there
Complete post is up a little ways. must be the Vicodin off to bed now.
first off... when have YOU ever seen a cop use his gun!!!
second, he would NEVER EVER shoot sideways cuz it the most asinine way to get somebody(s) else killed!!! it’s called training, and lots of it BTW! i don’t mind you using hypothetical situations… just stay in the realm of reality.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
zoro
zoro holds his sword sideways = thug
by brands735 on Jun 10, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
too good to pass up!!!
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
by windycity72 on Jun 10, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
There are certain situations
were it might not be possible to use the proper police “shooting from the hip” method. Like when firing blindly over the top of a high wall.
Why would you fire
blindly over the top of a high wall? That’s super dangerous…
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by Ashley Czuba on Jun 11, 2009 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the word you were looking for was retarded.
I understand what weasel is trying to say but the example is not a good one.
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
by Ditkavsworld on Jun 11, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
That word came to mind...
but I didn’t want to be too harsh. :)
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by Ashley Czuba on Jun 11, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Don't hold back, I'm sure he can take it.
Because as far as we're concerned, there is still no team in the history of the NFL that could beat the '85 Bears.
by Ditkavsworld on Jun 11, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
hence the words "BLIND FIRE" !!!!
and not trying to be a smart @$$, but “shooting from the hip” actually comes from the HIGH NOON SHOOT OUT western days, and is just as inaccurate.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Just making a little joke.
Again with the subtle sarcasm. It was funny to me. As someone with a brief law enforcement background, shooting blindly over the top of a high wall is certainly frowned upon.
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