The 10 Most Important Bears in 2009 - #6
by wiltfongjr on Jul 14, 2009 11:00 AM CDT
88 comments
In this ongoing series, I'll look at which Bears I think will need to contribute the most in 2009 for them to have a successful season. Some things I thought about when compiling this list were: what potential impact they may have, how much the team will look to the individual for guidance or leadership, how badly the team would suffer if they lost the player to injury, and other intangible attributes. Hopefully this series will spark some good off-season Bears discussion!
#6 Lovie Smith - Defensive Coordinator
Notice I'm putting the onus on his new coordinator duties. I'll give Lovie credit for realizing his buddy Bob Babich was in over his head, he just should have caught on before all 16 games were played last year. By calling the defensive plays Lovie Smith is putting himself on the chopping block. If the Bears can't get their defense back to a top unit, the blame will fall squarely on him.
Lovie will no doubt expect his defense to be able to play their Cover 2, as it is their defensive identity, and leave the blitz happy days behind. One thing he'll need to identify is exactly how much the league has caught up to what the Bears do. Will he add some wrinkles to the D? Will he be able to think outside the Cover 2 box? Will they be able to disguise some of their base sets in creative ways? Some experts say the days of using the Tampa 2/Cover 2 as a base defense is over. I feel if you have the right personnel (as the Bears do) and aren't too stubborn to tweak things up a bit, you can still run the D effectively.
As I said with #8 on my list, Rod Marinelli, the coaches can only do so much, the players have to make plays, but with Lovie putting himself so far out there he needed to be on this list. (Just not in the top 5)
Bottom line is if the Bears defense fails, Lovie, and only Lovie will held accountable in the court of public opinion.
The List so far:
#10 - Nathan Vasher - Cornerback
#9 - Kevin Payne - Strong Safety
#8 - Rod Marinelli - Defensive Coordinator
#7 - Devin Hester - Wide Receiver / Return Specialist
#6 - Lovie Smith - Defensive Coordinator
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I love Lovie
But I agree that he is putting himself on the chopping block if our Cover 2 fails again.
However, if he turns things around, he will be our coach for at least 2-3 more years.
by Bearsguy34 on Jul 14, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I HATE LOVIE
Thiis is the same stubborn dumba## that couldn’t make any adjustment until halftime, now he will run his philosphy till its bone dry. Hint Lovie, most teams caught on to our defense. Im wondering if lovie is caught in a time portal where he still thinks he is in St. Louis on a sb run. Damn do I miss Rivera, he should be our head coach if we still want a defensive mind set. I just don’t see lovie as being creative.
by stumpo on Jul 14, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not the scheme
A lot of people say the cover-2 is on its way out, but not true at all. Every team runs some sort of variant to the scheme during games. It wasn’t effective last year because Urlacher and Briggs were constantly out of position in their zones. Having virtually no pass rush left the slant and other middle of the field patterns wide open. Once the line play improves, we’ll see much more consistency from the defense as a whole.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why thank you sir
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivera's D = Super Bowl
Lovie’s Defense = Failure the last two years. Do you not think he had some influence on Babich. All the sudden he will call the plays and everyone thinks he will bring them back to form. I got an idea, bring back Rivera’s D-playbook and we will get back to form. I agree with the lack of pressure by the front four. But this guy, aka lovie, let this shit go on all last year!!! Are you kidding me, at some point he had to make a change. Nope our brillant coach is going to wait for the end of the season then make changes. Grow some balls and fire babich and give the job to Marenelli. Lovie will sink this ship, i promise you. What got us to the SB, was Special teams(Toub) and defense(Rivera), I hope his project fails so we can get someone in here that can do something with our talent.
by stumpo on Jul 14, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DC
Do you not think he had some influence on Babich. All the sudden he will call the plays and everyone thinks he will bring them back to form.
Of couse he has some sort of influence on his coordinators (esp. defense), but at some point as a HC you can’t micro-manage your employees. You have to trust them to make the right decisions, and make changes when necessary. Obviously, Lovie doesn’t have a great track record when it comes to his coaches, but Marinelli was brought in to light a proverbial fire under the D-line in order to get more pressure on the QB. The pass-rush has been the problem, and it tends to have a trickle down effect on the rest of the defense. You’re writing as if they need to make a historic jump in production or an complete overhaul; nothing can be further from the truth. Basically, in essence, this group of players have done it before, so the capability is already there. This is a “win-now” team, there’s no room for wholesale changes as long as this regime is firmly entrenched with the organization.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just one more thing
I got an idea, bring back Rivera’s D-playbook and we will get back to form.
Who’s to say they haven’t run the same exact thing? I’m sorry, but I highly doubt the playbook was changed for BB. Think of Babich as a puppet pupil of Lovie’s. Rivera was ousted because of a difference in philosophy. He wanted his defense to be more aggressive, than conservative. At least that was the rumor following the SB.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really guy
So we’ve run the same d as rivera wanted and somehow sucked ass since he left. Come on…
Conservative defense philosphy and we still give up the big play, really. I mean berrian can run one route, straight down the field, HE WAS ON OUR F-ING TEAM, and we still give up a 90 plus yard catch and td.
by stumpo on Jul 14, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're blaming...
Babich and Smith for Tillman completely blowing his assignment and covering someone else’s man?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So
your support these two dumbasses, babich and lovie?
by stumpo on Jul 14, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, as long as they're still coaches for the Bears.
There’s no reason to bash them when the season hasn’t started yet. It can be argued that Lovie has done less with more over his tenure.
Smith’s 45 wins are third most in franchise history, trailing only Hall of Famers George Halas and Mike Ditka. Forty of those 45 regular season wins have come over the previous four seasons, tied for second most in the NFC and sixth most in the NFL during that span. Smith also has a 2-2 postseason record, including an NFC Championship and the Bears first Super Bowl appearance in 21 years (2006), to give him the third-most playoff victories in team history behind the six of Halas and Ditka.
He’s done all that with a below average QB; now he has a difference-maker at the most important position in football. Couple that with an improved defense (please see addition of Hot Rod and improved depth), and this team potentially has the makings of something special.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow, I read your comments and Propheteer’s quotation attributed to Winston Churchill, and the two come together.
"They tried to take out the quarterback, and if they managed that, they tried to take out the backup." - Bears SB20 TE Emery Moorehead, on the mentality of *that* defense
by Spongie on Jul 14, 2009 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Numbers don't lie
Are you insuating that I fit the description of being a fanatic? Blinded by my loyality, refusing to listen to reason.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was replying to Stumpo
He seems rather set in his opinion…..
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
by Spongie on Jul 15, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
I wasn’t sure who you were replying to. Yes, definitely set.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, definitely set.
Some might even say set to the point of being cocksure.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
by Spongie on Jul 15, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
Lovie can go to hell for all I care. I can’t believe how much credit you guys give this guy. We were fortunate to get to the sb with many games that were decided very late in the game, thanks to Special team play and defensive turnovers. We’ll see this year how smart this guy really is buy taking the defense under his wing. If he fails, get him out of this town for good!
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay....
While the past two years were far from acceptable (by our high historical standards), I respectfully think you are completely disregarding a major factor. Although the Bears of 2008 came within ONE GAME of winning the NFC North, there were nonetheless decimated with injuries on defense, many of which ocurred in the secondary. In fact, Tillman started the season with personal issues, Vasher was hampered with injuries all year, and even Zach Bowman lasted exactly ONE game before going to the IR. Mike Brown also went to IR. So did Dvorcek. Harris was hampered, as well. Your feelings for Lovie are evident, and I realize you’re entitled to your opinion. However, as I told all of the Bronco fans around me (I live in Colorado), be careful what you ask for. You just might get it!
Getcha Beernuts Ready!
by Fly1965 on Jul 15, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE
id love a new coach asap while we have talented palyers. Ask yourself this, If we didn’t make the sb a few years ago how many people would be asking for lovie’s head?
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh huh...
And how many other coaches made the SB a few years ago? These arguments are the reason why I don’t go to the Newspaper blogs. If fans had control, there would be 53 new faces every year. The same stuff was said about JA until he got Cutler. Its sot of like everyone bagging on Peyton about not being able to win the “big game!”
Getcha Beernuts Ready!
by Fly1965 on Jul 15, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change of mind
I love lovie, even though he only had one fortunate year and got us to the sb, i’ll forget the other years he cant get us through the playoffs.
CHOP BLOCK YEAR, we’ll all find out how good(creative) you guys think he is
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay....
All I’m saying is that you have to factor in the injuries. San Diego supposedly axed Schottenheimer because he couldn’t “win the big one.” How many big ones has Norv Turner won thus far? I liken it to a change in the Presidency; you hate the one you have until you see the next one in action! Even then, many fans (fanatics) will justify the new coach’s faults by blaming the last coach’s personnel moves, complaining about the team the poor new guy “inheritted!”
Getcha Beernuts Ready!
by Fly1965 on Jul 15, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coaching Strategy
I never liked lovie after the first fews games when he became our head coach because he is stuborn and more importantly cannot make any game time adjustments. Whenever we have exploited a weakness in another team, we use it for a minute then abandon it like an ugly stepkid instead of attacking. He allows turner to continue calling the same damn play, play after play after play. There’s no creativity… example – we were great on a no-huddle coming out in the first qtr, where’d that go. No I do not mean trick plays either. Our game plan, 1st dwn run up the middle, 2nd dwn run up hte middle, 3rd down dump pass.
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but...
I can’t disagree that we need creativity. Especially on offense. However, please consider that creativity is useless if it results in less wins. All coaches should coach to the strengths of their personnel. If your QB can’t throw an accurate pass longer than 15 yards, deep plays are ineffective. Some might say that taking what was arguably the best return specialist ever and trying to get him on the field for every offensive play was creative. Often times, creativity comes with some type of cost.
Getcha Beernuts Ready!
by Fly1965 on Jul 15, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think one thing that is lost in the shuffle is
Ron Riveria still was running the Lovie Smith version of the Cover 2 when he was the DC here… as much as I was pissed to see Riveria go, and I think he’ll be a good head coach some day, the Bears in 2006 ran more Cover 2 stuff than the last 2 years
by wiltfongjr on Jul 15, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken
But you have to agree we do need to mix it up a bit. I was about 85% right on all the play calling last few years. Grated cutler will open many things up for us
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You were right about what?
That’s the most rediculous statement I’ve ever heard. So you’re claiming to know 85% of the time exactly what the Bears were going to run? Absolutely absurd. According to the stats I listed above, Lovie is the 6th most successful coach in the last four years. Do you still want to get rid of him and replace him for some retread that will most undoubtedly be worse? Or better yet, a successful college coach that will quit after one season?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
FIRE his ass.
And your telling me that were not predictable. What, are you surprised when we run up the middle, hell we run that play on 1st dwn at least every time we get on the field it seems like. And yes I can call the plays most of the time, hell we only run about 5 plays with turners brillant mind trying to make plays
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the run up the middle
would work better if the PLAYERS exectuted better. You can’t continue to blame the coaching if the players don’t execute. I get you don’t like Lovie by the way, you’ve made it clear in about 10 posts.
I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 15, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
50% chance
of the defense knowing what “type” of play it’s going to be- Run or pass. You can assume every offense is predictable the way you’re referring to it. Yes, I agree the FB dive is predictable and should go the way of the dinosaurs, but running the ball up the middle can be effective if the offensive line executes better. This is still a game of mano y mano, who’s tougher than the guy across from you. Plain and simple, the Bears line has to run-block better than last season.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All those McKie dives last year
was just to set up playaction in 2009!
by wiltfongjr on Jul 15, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great idea!
That should be the first offensive play of the season. PA to McKie and watch Hester fly under a rocket-launched throw by Sizzle!
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
with what you’ve said in this thread. Well put!
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by HoneyBear on Jul 15, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Micro Manage
So let a WHOLE year go buy, you do what you have to do as a head coach to get the most out of your players, period. Your right, the talent is still there and we’ve sucked ass for the past two years! (since getting rid of Rivera). I don’t have any faith in his play-calling, especially if we keep doing this fake linbacker blitz that gets them out of position. We just better hope cutler and friends can put some points up because the D will continue to suck under lovie.
Rivera for Head Coach anyone?
by stumpo on Jul 14, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Run-defense was great
That leaves improvement down to one single area of the defense (pass rush), which is a very feasible task to attain. Plus, Babich’s defense was 2nd in the entire league in takeaways (32). I know he’s much-maligned and rightfully so, but certainly he did some good with the bad.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Safty Support
We stacked 8 men in the box more than any team in the nfl, I hope our run d was good. We had inexperienced safties and Brown not on top of his game, way to provide extra support for them with the linebackers.
by stumpo on Jul 14, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blitzed more than any other team
There’s a bit of a difference between just stacking the box.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I know is that the four teams that played on Championship Sunday
(Eagles, Steelers, Ravens and even the Cardinals) played a ‘pressure defense.’
Jim Johnson, Dick LeBeau and Rex Ryan attack. Period. Even the Cardinals tried to mix it up on defense.
New Cardinal DC Bill Davis was recently promoted from his LB coaching position. A few weeks ago he was on the radio talking about how his defense is going to dictate to the offense, and not the other way around.
He was very adament about that.
by GeoMak on Jul 14, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest difference on defense between 2005 and 2006?
We got rid of a defensive coordinator because Lovie was afraid to have a rapidly rising star who could one day supplant him. It was a bush league move and one I have a hard time forgiving. Then he promotes his buddy Bob who…. don’t get me started on that move. Lovie has a LOT to prove this season ihmo.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
by Just Dave on Jul 14, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we pretty much know what we're getting in Lovie Smith...
He’s mild mannered, he’s a disciple of Tony Dungy and the “Cover Two,” and he’s reportedly one of the highest payed coaches in the NFL (you may not have known that).
I’d be interested in seeing who we think the top 10 key players are – heading into the 2009 season. Lovie’s brilliant play-calling and motivational tactics not withstanding, the players are going to decide how far the team goes this year…
by JimmyMack on Jul 14, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like Lovie too.
He’s managed our team to the playoffs twice in five years, and has a healthy 45-35 record. Do I wish he were a little more vocal? Of course, but that’s just not who he is. Being the Assistant Head Coach, maybe Rod can be that in your face personality and provide a little edginess that I believe some of our players need.
My guess on the top five…
5 – Bennett (needs to take some of the pressure off Hester).
4 – Pace (needs to be able to protect the backside of our franchise).
3 – Graham (needs to be able to convert to the biggest weakness on our D).
2 – Cutler (needs to be able to step in, learn the offense and not throw critical INT’s).
1 – Tommie (needs to figure out where the old Tommie went and provide QB pressure).
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Jul 14, 2009 12:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your top 5
and the reasoning…
Thursday at 11am we’ll see my #5… here’s a tease… it’s not Bennett!
I’d love to see everyone list their top 10 at some point and I’ d compile a cumulative list
by wiltfongjr on Jul 14, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as long as...
it isnt davis lol
Bring back our honey bears...sick and tired of hearing about the dallas cowboy cheerleaders and the bars they go work at when they quit. cold weather + cheerleaders in skimpy outfits = lots of fun
by tomh115 on Jul 14, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that an offer for this thread or will there be a separate post for it?
Ten most important isn’t the same as Ten who need to step it up.
1. Jay Cutler would have to be first on my list. I’m still not very high on him (though I think he’s worlds better than Matt Cassel, but that’s damning him with faint praise.
2. Hester has to be a competent receiver who puts up at least high #2 stats. He can’t be a more productive Rashied Davis with more yards on PIs than actual catches.
3. Earl Bennett needs to do something.
4. Tommie Harris needs to get back to being an all-world player.
5. Kevin Payne needs to not suck.
6. Corey Graham needs to not suck.
7. Lovie Smith needs to not be Bob Babich. The Bears gave up 350 points last year. They gave up 168 in 15 games in 2005. If they can find a happy medium in there, like 275 points, then they’ll be a certain contender. Lovie has to make sure they’re in that area.
8. Rod Marinelli – See #7. His area of the defense needs to be especially better.
9. Mark Anderson – He’s still on the team, right?
10. I expect to see at least one pro-bowl appearance from the Linebacking monster known as Brilance Briggslacher. If not two. Or three.
Is Clint Hurdle fired yet? YES
Is John Paxson fired yet?
Is Ralph Friedgen fired yet?
Is Vinny Del Negro fired yet?
Is Dan O' Dowd fired yet?
Is Jerry Angelo fired yet?
by ES46NE10 on Jul 14, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
a top 10 that needs to STEP IT UP!
good feedback!
by wiltfongjr on Jul 14, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I’m with you ES46NE10 – we had same train of thought. If it were most important, Briggs and Forte would have to be included. But I view this list from this perspective:
In this ongoing series, I’ll look at which Bears I think will need to contribute the most in 2009 for them to have a successful season.
To me that says, STEP IT UP!
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Jul 14, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Wilt - you're such a tease!.
I didn’t figure I’d hit your top 5, but I figured I’d try a run at it.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by smudgers on Jul 14, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
only 1 DLineman?
If the D Line steps up our Defense can revert to 2005-06.
Harrison, Tommie Harris both have to be in the top 5.
If you want to crown em...
by JohnnyTruant on Jul 14, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those 5 are definately going to be big keys to how far the team goes this year
The free safety position (hopefully they name Graham the starter) and Tommy Harris are the keys on D – assuming Nate Vasher can stay healthy and revert to form. I would almost throw Chris Williams in the mix because I think you basically know what you’re getting in Orlando Pace and Jay Cutler.
by JimmyMack on Jul 14, 2009 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Corners v. Safeties
A big question I have is what will Lovie do if the safeties continue to not cover anyone. We all hope Corey Graham will step up, but who knows. It’s possible we could wind up with a bunch of good corners (Tillman, Vasher, Manning, Bowman, Moore) and not so good safeties. If that’s the case, will Lovie try and use nickel/dime packages to try and get more corners on the field? That will be interesting.
It is attractive to put Tommie H at #1, because when he can play to potential it adds huge value to the defensive effort. On the other hand, tackle was not a huge weakness last year, and overall the Bears look fairly deep at the position. Truth be told it is the defensive end position that really has been hurting. Alex Brown has made some nice plays, but that’s it. Very little production from a marquee position. Yet nobody even has a DE on the top 10 list.
by Shuffle85 on Jul 14, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Guys, come on! You have to have more faith in the system! You think you’ve got problems? HA! I’m still trying to figure out the plan for the cowboys. Your plan appears to be better. I say that there are not 10 important bears players, there is an entire team full of important players and if everyone does their part and steps up then things will be great. I didn’t realize that alot of you didn’t want Lovie as the coach. I’m shocked because I actually like him and think that he’s good. Now, if Jay should throw some critical INT’s, who cares, let it ride because the ride will be worth it. There’s a big deal in the media about it, but they seem to forget that he is still learning and that he had those picks because he had no run game and no defense. He was forced to throw all the time. franchise qbs can be fun and stressful all at the same time. Remember, you showed how much you wanted him there and he wants to be there so let the bumps pass and enjoy the show. Too much emphasis is made on an early record, but alot of qbs have been shaky at the beginning and ended with a bang! You’re not the only team that shopping with the broncos-we have every intention of winning the Shanahan sweepstakes. Why should everyone else be deprived of what they need-if they don’t think that it’s any good, somebody else does!
Needagoodtime!
by Loveforjoy! on Jul 14, 2009 1:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You really changed gears right there:
I didn’t realize that alot of you didn’t want Lovie as the coach. I’m shocked because I actually like him and think that he’s good. Now, if Jay should throw some critical INT’s, who cares, let it ride because the ride will be worth it.
But yes, Lovie isn’t the most popular feller round these parts, but some folks like him. Certainly though, and I only bring it up because you mentioned it, not nearly as bad as that circus show Wade Phillips y’all have down there.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
by Dane Noble on Jul 14, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn’t agree more. Why do you think we’re willing to pay Shanahan whatever he wants. He has a new playground to play in. We are basically buying time until he arrives and we estimate it will take 10-15 million a year for his services. I’ve had franchise qbs to throw end zone interceptions and contrary to what some may believe is not the end of the world. Honestly, I don’t know anyone who uses the term “feller” but it was funny.
Needagoodtime!
by Loveforjoy! on Jul 14, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couple of thoughts...
One, if Shanahan does come to Dallas, it won’t be for 10-15mil/ year. Pat Bowlen is still on the hook for around 21mil (3 years remained when Shanny got canned)… so if the Cowboys wanted to pay Shanahan 4mil/ year, he’d still get the difference (3mil) from Denver.
Two, your comment about franchise QBs throwing INTs… is that another abrupt gear change? I’m only beginning my first cup of coffee, but I’m having a hard time following your train of thought there.
Third, I use the word “feller”… It is common nomenclature where I am from.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
by Dane Noble on Jul 15, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about the wonder kid?
Jason Garrett?
Isn’t he the head coach in waiting?
by wiltfongjr on Jul 15, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It vertainly appeared that way,
until the Cowboys allowed him to talk to the Lions. So Jones either knew that there was no way Garrett would actually go to Detroit, or he has changed his stance on Garrett’s future.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
by Dane Noble on Jul 15, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m having a hard time following your train of thought there.
To be honest, I have that problem with all of Loveforjoy!‘s comments. They’re seemingly written on happy pills. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing, you understand, but…..
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
by Spongie on Jul 15, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yoyoyoyoyo mon
"Some people wish it would happen, some people want it to happen, and some people make it happen." ~ Michael Jordan 23
by Bullsman on Jul 14, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
by Dane Noble on Jul 14, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Top 10
no coaches. I agree they are important, but I thought it would be more “pure” to just list players.
10 — Nate Vasher
9 — Kevin Payne
8 — Chris Williams
7 — Tommie Harris
6 — Kevin Jones
5 — Earl Bennett
4 — Walle Ogunleye
3 — Devin Hester
2 — Corey Graham
1 — Jay Cutler
Here is my logic: I believe that the guys who should rank highest are players who 1) have some question mark around how they will perform this year and 2) have no solid backup available if they play poorly. That’s where the team really gets hurt — where it absolutely needs a guy to play well, and he doesn’t, or gets hurt. (For example, it would be great if Urlacher had a Pro Bowl year, but if he is injured or absolutely stinks we have other fine LB’s available).
Many of the guys on my list have little or no track record at their position with the Bears, and have questionable backups. These are the guys who will make or break the season, in my view.
by Shuffle85 on Jul 14, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Graham
While I really hope Graham can transition to FS, he hasn’t wowed anyone yet… the stuff I read about him claims he’s picking up stuff pretty slow… hopefully he’s reading his playbook as much as possible and once camp opens he makes big strides…
as it stands now Steltz is atop the depth chart…
by wiltfongjr on Jul 14, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
That’s why I view him as critical. He is a fine athlete who has shown he can cover and work effectively in the secondary. If he can make the leap to FS and give a “B” performance, it will be a huge boost to the team. If not, we’re in the soup. I have nothing against Steltz — seems like he’d make a good SS. But I shudder at thinking about him trying to chase down Adrian Peterson, Bernard Berrian and Percy Harvin when we play the Vikes.
by Shuffle85 on Jul 14, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's is a scary thought
I don’t think anyone is comfortable with Stelts being annointed the FS job.
But I shudder at thinking about him trying to chase down Adrian Peterson, Bernard Berrian and Percy Harvin when we play the Vikes.
There ain’t no trying to catch those guys. Once they have you leaning the other way it’s over.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you did a great job on your description of Lovie, but I feel he is the most important this season.
My Top Ten is:
1. Lovie Smith – If our defense doesn’t step up this year, I think everything else is a non-issue. I would also include his duties as HC, though, because he has made some bad decisions in his staff choices and, in my opinion, he also needs to make this team more “tough minded” to reach the ultimate goal. Teams take on the personality of their head man, so it falls on him.
2. Tommie Harris – As one of the highest paid Bears and DT’s in the NFL, he needs to return to form as an impact player or he’s taking up a lot of cap space for an “average” player. He needs to set the tone on every play to help lead the defense back to respectibility.
3. Jay Cutler – I only rank him this high because of the expectations that the entire fanbase has for him and anything short of a “very good” performance will be viewed as a failure. That could affect the entire personality of the team.
4. Chris Williams – It seems like everyone is assuming that he is going to step in and be a solid pro, yet we don’t really know what he can do. If he is a bust, there is a huge hole in the O Line and everything starts there.
5. Matt Forte – He needs to match or exceed his rookie season. If he has a sophomore jinx situation, an area that is viewed as a strength going into the season, becomes a huge concern and puts more pressure on the QB and defense.
6. Wide Receiver – I know it’s a bit of a copout, but it doesn’t really matter who it is. One of these guys has to become a legitimate threat. We need someone that defenses are afraid of, in order to open up the running game and keep the offense on the field.
7. Nathan Vaser – Another guy who has to return to his former self. The Cover -2 needs both sides of the field locked down so the LB’s and Safeties can stay home and complete their assignments.
8. Devin Hester – He’s being paid as starting WR and he needs to prove that he can handle that, along with being more effective in the return game. I’m not even saying he has to do what he did his first 2 years as a KR/PR, but he has to do better than he did last season to give the Bears the field position they want. He isn’t scary at all anymore, if he plays like he did in ‘08.
9. Brian Urlacher – He is the face of the franchise and a return to glory for him sets the stage for the entire organization, not just the defense. Unlike some, I don’t think he had a terrible season in 2008 but, like Hester, we need him to be scary again.
10. Steltz/Graham – Whomever is going to be back there with Payne has to do the job and give the D-line time to get to the QB
by BearFan611 on Jul 14, 2009 6:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
awesome list!
I like your reasoning for those picks… these lists are so subjective, but they are fun to do
by wiltfongjr on Jul 14, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like the list too
but I don’t think Lovie is as important than the players on the field. He’s done it before, so I’m sure he has a very good idea on how he’s going to call games. Ultimately, it’s up to the players to make plays.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 14, 2009 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Normally, I would agree with you about players vs. coaches
but I think Lovie and his staff have under achieved ever since the SB. True, some players have let him down, but he’s also been slow to make changes or hold those particular athletes accountable. It’s my belief that if we miss the playoffs again, he has to go. If we do well and go deep into January, he deserves another chance.
by BearFan611 on Jul 15, 2009 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
he should be gone if they don’t earn a playoff berth.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No D Ends??
Most of your reasoning is sound, but how can you not have a defensive end on the list. For the vast majority of teams the sack leader is a d end. Why do so many Bears fans seem to think the rush should come from the tackles? The lack of pass rush points back to the ends much more than the tackles.
by Shuffle85 on Jul 15, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm...
there are 5 spots left. I think we’ll see at least one (Ogunleye) DE on the list, and possibly a second as well (Brown or Anderson).
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
he was talking about BearFan61’s list…
he had no DE’s in his top 10
as for my top 10… patience!
by wiltfongjr on Jul 15, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, my bad!
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point,
but I think the ends we have have been pretty consistent over the last few years. Anderson being the exception after his rookie season. I’ve always been of the belief that pressure, especially up the middle, is more important than an actual sack number. We have not had that inside pressure for awhile and if we can improve in that area, the DE’s will take care of themselves, in my opinion.
by BearFan611 on Jul 15, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every player is on the list! They all have to play their part to get team results. I haven’t attended one championship parade that centered around a couple of players. Heck, even the coaches attended. For the time being, I will have to hold these 5 titles close until Mike Shanahan arrives to give me a 6th one. Darn those Steelers for breaking the tie!
P.S. I was wondering if the Bears organization has their super bowl rings on display at their headquarters (we actually do in Dallas) and if so can you go in and see them? I invite all of you to come by Valley Ranch , if you should make it to Dallas, and go on a tour of our headquarters and the new stadium. Do the Bears have daily tours and if so is it year round?
Needagoodtime!
by Loveforjoy! on Jul 15, 2009 12:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a general comment after reading everything.
Anyone remember how frustrated they were, when we couldn’t beat the packers? For YEARS and Freakin’ YEARS they had our number. Now is that the case anymore (with Lovie)? Beating the packers consistently goes a long way with me.
Some of you may not find this as important as I do.
by rdent4hof on Jul 15, 2009 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah
beat the packers or go to the playoffs, i choose the later
by stumpo on Jul 15, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playoffs for me too
I relish in the fact that Lovie has turned the tides against the cheese, but making the playoffs obviously gives them a chance at ultimate glory.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said
beating the packers was more important than going to the playoffs (I didn’t need words put in my mouth). BUT as a Bears fan, beating the packers is pretty dam important!
Lovie has done both, more successfully than the previous two coaches.
by rdent4hof on Jul 15, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are correct sir
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Jul 15, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will always love
the way Lovie stated his three goals when he was first hired, then set about achieving them (or at least 2/3 of them).
That includes turning the tide against the The Re-Un-Re-retired One and the Cheese-slurpers.
Then winning the division.
Then, at least GETTING us to the SB.
I would love to see that sort of “I’ve put my mind to these stated objectives” type committment and success with him calling the defense this year…
On the other hand, I do get riled at Lovie’s perpetual non-plussedness, his stubborness, and all the lack of in-game adjustments.
About Rivera—love the guy. Loved what he did for the D, and I always felt like the players played FOR him.
But I have to wonder—does anybody else wonder—what is/was about Rivera exactly that PREVENTED HIM FROM BEING HIRED AS A HEAD COACH?
I remember him doing multiple interviews (forget where exactly?), yet no one signed him on as a H.C., so he basically just made a lateral move to SD.
It sort of begs the question about Rivera, doesn’t it? (Especially in this day and age where you’d think—all other things being equal—a Latino coach might be considered a great PR move by a team)
So WHY NOT? Ideas? Insights?
by Amishbear on Jul 15, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've thought the same thing about Rivera.
I still wouldn’t mind seeing him become the HC of the Bears if Lovie blows it this season.
Also, just a small point on one of your comments. Rivera actually took a step backward after being let go by the Bears. His first assignment with the Chargers was as Linebackers Coach. He didn’t take over as DC until later.
by BearFan611 on Jul 15, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Riveria
I think all his experience will make him better in the long run… he played in the 46 D, then the blitz happy Eagles D, then the Cover 2 Lovie D, and now he’s in the 3-4 Charger D…
I think I remember reading somewhere that he wasn’t a overwhelming interview
some day he’ll get his chance…
by wiltfongjr on Jul 15, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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