NightLink: Garza Better Than Pro Bowl Guards?

by Dane Noble on Jul 20, 2009 5:16 PM CDT

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Numbers and stats do not always tell the truth when looking at talent. We can argue until our faces are blue about QBs, and compare stats to what we think is true talent. But tonight's NightLink is an interesting one... it appears that the "number crunching" done by KC Joyner on offensive lineman puts Roberto Garza as one of the elite Right Guards in the NFL.

Here is Joyner's explanation:

"It is not based on the location of the block but rather specifically tracks which blockers were actually at the point of attack. A POA block is considered to be successful (i.e. a POA win) if the blocker created a lane through which the runner could go.

"If the blocker is beaten at the POA, I segment those losses into five categories: Gap stuff (blocker gets stopped at POA); Defeated block (defender gets past blocker at POA); Pushed into backfield/POA (blocker gets moved into backfield/POA and negatively impacts runner's progress); Penetration (defender gets past blocker and makes contact with ballcarrier in backfield); Stringout (defender strings run to outside out). The last formula takes into account run penalties. An offensive penalty (i.e. holding, illegal use of hands, etc.) counts as a POA loss and a defensive penalty as a POA win."

Make sure you head over and read Brad Biggs' entire article.

Is Garza truly one of the "elite" Right Guards in the game?

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Comments

I wouldn’t say elite, but he’s truely a Starting Guard in the NFL.

by Dominique Blanton on Jul 20, 2009 6:14 PM CDT reply actions

kind of elite

like he would start on pretty much every team

by The_Fan on Jul 20, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions

I say more elite than most guards

what round was he drafted in again?

by The_Fan on Jul 20, 2009 6:51 PM CDT reply actions

One Good Thing That We've Gotten Out Of Atlanta

NFL Draft: 2001 / Round: 4 / Pick: 99

by PaulieK14 on Jul 20, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions

round 4?

jeeze. great pick

by The_Fan on Jul 20, 2009 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions

I always watch the line

…and I’ve never had a problem with Garza, he’s been a solid productive pro as a Bear.

I think those 2 games vs. the great DT tandem of the Vikings cloud a lot of judgments on our guards and Olin Kreutz. Like most O-lineman, the times when they get beat seems to stick out in our memory, but the 95% of the good blocks are forgotten.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 20, 2009 7:24 PM CDT reply actions

It's like the coaches said on "4th and Long"

It’s not how many good plays you make, it’s how many bad plays you don’t make.

by smithie love on Jul 20, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions

...So let's start getting his damn name right

It’s Roberto, not Robert.

Camp ifuwanna, we hold you in our heart...

by ifuwannacrownem on Jul 20, 2009 8:18 PM CDT reply actions

sayin'

"If God had wanted man to play soccer, He wouldn't have given us arms" - Ditka

by EricEmpire on Jul 21, 2009 6:55 AM CDT up reply actions

I'd say

he could be better, could also be worse.

by duneman on Jul 20, 2009 8:22 PM CDT reply actions

So...

KC Joyner’s numbers mean diddly squat when he says Jay Cutler isn;t all that good. But, KC Joyner is Da Man, when his numbers say that Roberto Garza is a top rated guard.

I see how that works.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Jul 20, 2009 10:21 PM CDT reply actions

I haven't read the article yet but Joyner's criteria...

for this seems to be alot less subjective than what he used to rate Cutler. You can see when a blocker gets beaten, pushed back, holds the POA or pushes the defender backwards but can you tell me what a “near interception” looks like? I still don’t know what that is.

We are who we think we are.

by Bearfan1973 on Jul 21, 2009 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions

I'm gonn have to agree with Sackman on this one

We’ve all hated on him regarding all things Cutler. Maybe the stats he came up with for Garza make more sense because they make him look good. But if he was really a Pro Bowl Guard then he’ d go t to the Pro bowl. Maybe this is just KC’s way to get back in the good graces of Bear Nation. Don’t get me wrong I like Garza I think he’s a good guard, but I for one will not buy into the KC Joyner propoganda.

I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T

by Ditkavsworld on Jul 21, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Really?

But if he was really a Pro Bowl Guard then he’ d go t to the Pro bowl

How often do you think the Pro-Bowl ends up with the right guys? Sometimes, sure. And with the big names at skilled spots more often. But on the lines… unless you’re a LT or a DE… you’re probably not going to get voted in all the times you deserve it.

by Allie on Jul 21, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions

All I'm saying by that is....

if he is really better than many Pro Bowlers you’d think at some point in the last 8 seasons he’d have gone at least once. But yes I do understand the popularity portion of the selection process which would make it harder for someone lesser known to get in.

I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T

by Ditkavsworld on Jul 21, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Among certain segments he is well-known at least

Bears fans and players of the Spanish Madden game from a few years ago.

But even the hard core Bears fans I know don’t think Garza is that good. I need to read more about Joyner’s metrics before I even figure out if I agree.

Didn’t Garza have a perception in the first couple years as not being good? If you’re a lineman and you get that label, you’re going to have a hard time shaking it. Maybe thats why he hasn’t gone to the PB?

No idea.

by Allie on Jul 21, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions

I think being drafted by the Falcons in 01 didn't help his case.

I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T

by Ditkavsworld on Jul 21, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions

really?

i didn’t even know that.

by Allie on Jul 21, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Yup

Drafted by the Falcons in the 4th, his contract expired in 05 and he came to Chicago.

I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T

by Ditkavsworld on Jul 21, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions

yeah

i don’t pay a whole lot of attention in the offseason.

thats probably why this one is driving me so nuts… the cutler thing happened so early and now even though we’re down to 10 days til camp it still feels like a long time.

by Allie on Jul 21, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions