The Bears Den - 7/23/09
by ChiFan13 on Jul 23, 2009 12:00 AM CDT
in The Bears Den
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....where with the NFL season comes the beginning of a new school year for some of our members.
In The Den
ChicagoBears.com
You can now follow ChicagoBears.com on Twitter! Happy days are here again.
Chicago Sun-Times
Did you want JP Losman to sign as a backup for the Bears? Sorry - Losman signed with the Las Vegas UFL franchise.
Brad Biggs previews the cornerbacks.
ESPN Chicago
In part three, Jeff Dickerson breaks down the safety positional battle.
MVN
Our very own wiltfongjr has his season preview up and running.
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Not worried about CBs...
however, the safeties are another story. Again, I like Steltz as a SS not a FS. I see the whole defensive backfield hinging more on the play of Graham, Bowman, ans Manning more than Steltz and Payne. Also, what about DJ Moore? Is he any good? Has anyone seen his play during OTAs?
Lastly…JP “Loss man”, what an awful name for a QB. Who’s next Manny Picks? Sorry, but a good name doesn’t make a good player, but a bad name is a killer!
I think
you need “…where with the NFL season…” in your headline – in case you didn’t notice. :)
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
Why Lovie isn't the answer...
…link (pops).
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
I'm not convinced.
I think this is a topic where everyone has their own opinions. There’s no “right” or “wrong” way to coach. Some things work better than others. GeoMak (I believe) said in an earlier comment on another post that there are exceptions where the “quieter” coaches made it to the super bowl – even though he feels that the more vocal coaches are more successful in this area. Who says Lovie might not be an exception though?
That article was interesting to read, however. I do agree that Lovie will have to think a little more offensively to make sure everyone is happy (for lack of a better way to put it). Thanks for a look at a different point of view!
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by Ashley Czuba on Jul 23, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I just finished reading that...
And, well… no real point was made in that whole piece. It was basically a quick recap of Bears football for the last 5 years, with a an opening and closing statement that the Bears need an offensive minded coach.
Lovie’s pretty good at what he does… the Bears are 47-37 under his guidance, with a SB appearance. All without much, if any, top talent on offense. Defense and Special Teams wins championships, and nobody should be poo-pooing Lovie for making that the focus of his philosophy. Now, they have a real QB, and a re-built O-line. A great QB can suddenly make an experienced coordinator like Ron Turner look like a genius.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Good way to summarize the article
and good analysis. Also I think he exaggerated a bit by saying the higher-ups ignored the offense in this years draft and focused on defense. Five defensive players drafted versus four offensive is relatively even all things considered. Especially when you think about just how bad our defense was last year and considering we brought in more offensive FAs (Shaffer, Omyiale, Pace, Gaines, re-signing Jones vs. Bullocks, Earl, Tinosomoa) it makes up for it. I think Lovie is a good coach and that we will be fine for the foreseeable future.
by Sam Householder on Jul 23, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Plus... the reality is... we drafted Jay Cutler this year.
Is Lovie Smith perfect? No. Has he made his share of blunders? Yes. But, he’s also led some severely offensively challenged teams to 3 winning seasons, including a SB. His philosophy is to force turnovers, make plays on 3rd down, and excel on special teams to provide good field position for his offense. And, his teams have consistently been among the best at that during his tenure.
Now that he has a top notch QB, that field position should contribute to many more points on the board than in the past.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Let's not get carried away with 'severely offensively challenged'
The Ravens have won a lot of games and won a SB with the likes of Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, Jeff Blake and Kyle Boller at QB.
Oh come on...
Both of those offenses have been crud. The Ravens win on the shoulders of their defense as well.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
And Brian Billick was an offensive HC.
With a crappy offense. What are we arguing about here? That the Ravens offense was crappier than the Bears offense? Is that the point you’re trying to make?
You know, they had a future 2,000 yard rusher, Jamal Lewis, run for over 1,300 yards that year. And, they had 8 time pro-bowler Shannon Sharpe lead their team in receiving… and, they had a perennial pro-bowl LT in Jonathan Ogden.
We’re discussing Lovie Smith and the Bears… and our poor offenses. We’re not comparing them to anyone else.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
The point
is this.
A). You are incorrect when you say that the Bears were ‘severely offensively challenged.’ Like I said in my 11:21 post below, your QB isn’t named NFC player of the month in September, if your offense is ‘severely offensively challenged.’
B). The Ravens WERE ‘severely offensively challenged’ and they won a lot of games an won the SB.
C). Lovie had back-up QB’s on the bench. He could have done what a lot of HC’s do and put one in, if for nothing but a change of of pace. maybe some blame belongs with Lovie.
D). MOST importantly, you didn’t finish the sentence. I’m big on ‘finishing sentences.’
Example: When Mike Clark said that Brandon Marshall really was a ‘nice guy’ he forgot to finish the sentence. He should have said "Brandon Marshall really is a nice guy, despite the fact that he gets into trouble all the time off the field.
When you talk about the Lovie and the Bears offense being ‘severely offensively challenged’ even if you’re correct, you leave out the UNBELIEVABLE season that Devin Hester.
You did say that "His philosophy is . . . and excel on special teams to provide good field position for his offense.
All coaches want good field position. Few in the history of the game had a guy like Devin Hester fall into their laps like Lovie did.
If you are going to say the the offensive was severely challenged you should have balanced that out by ALSO saying that the Bears have also had, during that time, a return game the likes of which have rarely been seen in the NFL.
You are overplaying the ineptness of the offense and underplaying the role of Devin Hester on the team.
By your assessment...
If the Bears aren’t “severely offensively challenged”, then neither are the Ravens for your comparison.
If you’re gonna claim that Rex Grossman being named Player of the Month disqualifies that bad offense from being “severely offensively challenged,” then explain how the 2000 Ravens had the the NFL’s Offensive Rookie of the Year at RB, and NFL’s Comeback Player of the Year at QB.
Grossman and the Bears turned the ball over a whopping 36 times that season. That’s a bad offense, despite all the padded stats. The defense lead the league with an astonishing 44 forced turnovers (2.75 per game), yet the Bears finished the season just +8 on the turnover ratio. Absurd. In 2000, the Ravens had a +23 turnover ratio. Hardly offensive ineptitude. They took care of the ball, controlled the clock, and scored when they had to.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Sackman
You’re smarter than this. Really.
The 2000 Ravens went FIVE straight games without scoring ONE TD.
Five straight games. All FG’s. noew THAT’s being ‘severely offensively challenged.!’
And you’re going to compare THAT offense to the Bears?
And I’m not claiming that Rex was the offensive player of the month for the NFC in September. He was! Look it up (if you don’t know/remember).
Nobody is saying that the offense wasn’t inconsistent and didn’t have their problems. They did. We all know that.
They averaged ONE point more than the ’85 Bears, who led the NFC in scoring in 1985.
You yourself said that they were average in total yards. That’s not ‘severely offensively challenged.’
And NO offense plays great all season long.
The 2008 Cardinals of Warner, Boldin and Fitzgerald?
Warner threw three INT’s in New York as the Cards quickly went down 34-0 (they lost 56-35).
They lost 41-7 in New England.
The fact is that Grossman had HALF of his INT’s (10 out of 20) in THREE games: Arizona (4) Minnesota (3) and New England (3).
Hey, it’s football. It HAPPENS.
Trying to compare the Bears offense to a real ‘severely offensively challenged’ offense (like, say , the Ravens) is ABSURD!
Let’s summarize:
- Average NFL ranking in offensive yardage in 2006.
- A point MORE per game than the ’85 Bears, who led the NFC in scoring.
- HALF of Rex’s INT’s in just THREE games.
- Rex threw 10 TD’s (with only 3 INT’s) in his first five games, helping lead the Bears to a 5-0 record. Teams that start out 5-0 are almost guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Criticize Rex all you want. Look at those first five games.
10 TD’s. 3 INT"s. Almost guaranteeing the Bears of a playoff spot.
You can argue this ALL you want. You’re wrong.
Totals after the First Five Games:
Bears
Offense: 149 Points ( 29.8 Average)
Defense: 0 Points
Hester: 7 points
That’s almost 1/3 of the season. When you jump out 5-0 you:
A) Almost assure yourself of making playoffs.
B) Give yourself a little cushion for games like game six in Arizona, where Grossman had oneof the WORST games evr played by an NFL QB.
I don’t know about you, but if someone said that Jay Cutler was going to play five really good games in 2009 and then one horrible game . . . I’ll take that all day long.
I don't know about you...
but if someone told me Jay Cutler was only going to complete 54.6% of his passes, throw 23 TDs compared to 20 INTs, and have a lowly QB rating of 73.9… I’d say get this bum away from my team.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
The Bears forced an incredible
15 turnovers in the 1st five games.
And, BTW, our new favorite stat site, football outsiders, has the Bears offensive rankings in 2006 to #18 DVOA, #26 WEIGHTED, and #32 NON-ADJUSTED.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Doesn't matter
NOBODY is debating the defense, ARE WE?
(This is what people who are on the losing side of a debate do. They CHANGE THE SUBJECT)!
The defense has NEVER been the issue. Why bring it up now? (cause you’re desperate).
The ISSUE was the ‘severelly challenged offense’ which is INSANE!
- Average NFL ranking in offensive yardage in 2006.
- A point MORE per game than the ’85 Bears, who led the NFC in scoring.
- HALF of Rex’s INT’s in just THREE games.
- Rex threw 10 TD’s (with only 3 INT’s) in his first five games, helping lead the Bears to a 5-0 record. Teams that start out 5-0 are almost guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Get it?
Don’t tell me about Rex’s stats. If you paid attention in 2006, you would know that he had a few brutal games which of course are going to drag down his stats.
I’m not saying he had a great year or was a great QB.
I am saying that he helped jump start the team to 5-0 and to say that the offense was ‘severely challanged’ is ABSURD.
Keep arguing. Bring out all the stats you want.
Cause of sourse, you DO understand that you CAN’T win this debate.
Why?
Cause even if you erroneously depict Grossman as Cade McNown, then you are left with this, SACKMAN:
If Grossman was SO bad (after week five) then why didn’t Lovie bench him for a back-up QB (like what happens all the time in the NFL)?
See, you can’t win.
You do realize that forcing 3 turnovers a game
leads to incredible field position… give you more offensive snaps, and creates very easy opportunities to score points. You take things like that into consideration, and you start to form an adjusted view of how your offense performed. And in the case of the 2006 Chicago Bears, the gurus at FO, have summed up the offense with a #26 and #32 ranking.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Now... let's go back to the original phrase that you cherry picked
he’s also led some severely offensively challenged teams to 3 winning seasons, including a SB
In 2005, we went 11-5 and won the division despite having the league’s 29th ranked offense.
In 2006, we went to the Super Bowl, despite average talent on an averaged 15th ranked offense, which turned the ball over 36 times (only Detroit, Oakland, and Cleveland gave away the ball more).
in 2008, we overachieved and went 9-7, despite mediocre talent on the 26th ranked offense.
There’s nothing wrong with my initial comment. Lovie Smith has done a very good job, going 47-37, with very little talent on offense to boast about. And that was the whole damn original tone of my words. You, on the other hand decided to cherry pick, and turn everything into 2006 for your amusement.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
I cherry picked
HYSTERICAL!
Here’s you original comment: But, he’s also led some severely offensively challenged teams to 3 winning seasons, including a SB.
For the sake of expediency, I just focuced on 2006 (which was part of your statement). It was part of your statement, wasn’t it?
Again (for the LAST time):
- Average NFL ranking in offensive yardage in 2006.
- A point MORE per game than the ’85 Bears, who led the NFC in scoring.
- HALF of Rex’s INT’s in just THREE games.
- Rex threw 10 TD’s (with only 3 INT’s) in his first five games, helping lead the Bears to a 5-0 record. Teams that start out 5-0 are almost guaranteed to make the playoffs.
That’s being ‘severely offensively challenged?’
LUDICROUS (and no, not the rapper).
Simple fact is (for the LAST TIME):
First five games in 2006:
Offense: 149 Points ( 29.8 Average)
Defense: 0 Points
Hester: 7 points
That’s almost 1/3 of the season. When you jump out 5-0 you:
A) Almost assure yourself of making playoffs.
B) Give yourself a little cushion for games like game six in Arizona, where Grossman had oneof the WORST games evr played by an NFL QB.
And that’s ‘severely offensively challenged?’
Hysterical.
Eli Manning/Rex Gossman
Eli Manning won the SB in 2007.
His stat line… (56.1%——23 TD’s——20 INT’s——73.9 RATING)
Grossman’s?..(54.6%——23TD’s——20 INT’s——73.9 RATING)
Boy, those are AWFULLY similar stat lines, aren’t they?
In fact, TD’s, INT’s & QB Rating were IDENTICAL between Rex Grossman in 2006 and Eli Manning in 2007.
Oh, the difference between Eli’s 56.1% and Rex’s 54.6%.
Exactly EIGHT more completitions.
That’s right, except for Eli’s additional eight completitions, their stat line’s are IDENTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!
Surprised, Sackman?
No... I'm not surprised. Nor do I care.
Manning has greatly improved as a QB from 07-08. Grossman has worked himself into a 3rd string spot on the Houston Texans, and is one bad training camp away from playing in the UFL.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
You've been completely defeated here by me.
Next time THINK before you make an insane comment like this: severely offensively challenged
and before most of your comments afterwards.
Eli/Rex: Almost identical regular season stats in their SB years.
Too funny!
Defeated?
What am I… the death star? See… this is your whole god damn problem. You come on here… search for something to nitpick, and throw grenades at disregard, just to jerk off and rub your own ego… instead of actually discussing something.
My original point stands: Lovie Smith has won 56% of the games he’s coached, with horrible offensive talent. And, there’s nothing you provided that says otherwise.
1. You tried to compare the 2006 Bears to the 2000 Ravens, saying that a team with an NFL Player of the Month (Rex Grossman) could never possibly qualify as “severely offensively challenged.” Yet, according to you, the Ravens were severely offensively challenged even though they finished #16 in total yards (just as average as the Bears #15), had the NFL offensive Rookie of the Year at RB, the NFL Comeback Player of the Year at QB, the starting LT in the ProBowl, and an 8 time Pro Bowl TE.
So, which is it tough guy? You can’t claim one, and not the other. They’re either both severely offensively challenged, or they’re not.
2. You isolated the Bears 1st five games, announcing how “great” the offense was. Nevermind, that their defense forced 15 turnovers in the first 5 games (a league leading 44 for the entire year), providing the offense with incredible average starting field position at the 34 yard line in those 5 games… while the offense was just 26% (5-14) in red zone efficiency in those games, leaving a boatload of points on the board because of their failures.
3. Yet, you decide not to give the same courtesy to the Ravens, and cannot isolate the Ravens 5 game run of not scoring a TD in the same manner. Nevermind that the the Ravens won 2 of those games, and changed QBs at that time. They went on to win their last 11 consecutive games to finish the season, averaging 26.6 points per game.
4. You somehow disregarded the fact that the Bears wonderful offense turned the ball over a whopping 36 times in 2006. Only 3 teams in the NFL were worse. And that despite putting a large number of points on the board, and being middle of the pack in yards, the stat gurus at football outsiders have the 2006 Bears offense ranked #26 and #32 (as in dead last) on weighted averages. Fun fact: the Bears 4 defensive TDs, and 5 special teams TDs were also league bests.
5. You dumbfoundingly think that a QB who completes only 54% of his passes and has a QB rating of 73.9 is doing a good job, despite the anomaly of Eli Manning’s 2007 season.
Point blank: the Bears have had completely mediocre talent on offense during Lovie Smith’s tenure, and yet the coach has gone on to win the second most games in the NFC over the last 4 years, and 6th most in the NFL.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Jul 24, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Otherwise, Dilfer wouldn’t have become the only SB winning QB to ever get cut right after the season.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
Look the Bears
had Grossman, Griese and Orton at QB. Those aren’t three horrible QB’s.
They had a Pro-Bowl RB in Thomas Jones.
They had guys like Berrian, Muhammad and Clark for receivers.
Grossman was the NFC offensive player of the month in September.
He didn’t earn that by himself.
You can’t have a horrible offense (or be severely offensively challenged) and yet have the QB in that offense earn player of the month.
The fact is that for the most part, in 2006, the defense was excellent. For the most part.
The offense, led by Rex, was usually either great or terrible.
Lovie was the HC. If he wanted to, he could have benched Rex and gone to a back-up. It happens all the time in the NFL. Kurt Warner was benched for Matt Leinart.
Devin Hester was a gift from God to Lovie and the Bears. Truly one of the most ‘impactful’ seasons in NFL history. The Bears won every game he scored a TD in 2006 (except of course, the SB).
No Devin Hester, no SB appearance in 2006. Period.
LMFTFY
No Devin Hester, (probably) no SB appearance in 2006. Period.
And by the way, who are you arguing with?
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
SackMan's comment
that the Lovie’s Bears were ‘severely offensively challenged.’
And yeah. Nothing’s set in stone. It’s highly unlikely they reach the SB without Hester, IMO.
He singlehandedly beat the Rams. He was the difference in the Arizona game. He averaged 85 yards on his TD’s
By midseason just his presence alone on the return teams scared the opposition so badly that it was almost like having a 12th man on the field.
Hester's theatrics and the league leading 44 turnovers forced
Gave our mediocre offense opportunities to score plenty of points.
So, you’re really just validating how pedestrian our offense was that year. They were ranked #15 in total yards… league average. Nothing to boast home about. The tremendous play by our defense and special teams helped them achieve that mark. By the same comparison, the Ravens were ranked #16 in total yards when they won the SB in 2000.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
So, then you're saying the Ravens aren't "severely offense challenged" either.
Which is it. And why do insist on cherry picking one phrase and creating a 3 hour argument out of it. It’s ridiculous.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Of course they were dude
I already told you that. They went 5 straight games without scoring a SINGLE TD.
Now that, my friend, is ‘severely offensively challenged.’
BTW: Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Actually, it’s quite simple.
The discussion was going so well...
…until Geo went off on one again – “You’re all plain WRONG and I’m RIGHT.”
Good grief. There’s got to be a way of blocking individual member’s comments.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
That's just Geo. I think it's sort of charming in a mildly annoying way.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. He’s like a bull dog with a bone, he just won’t let it go. Tenacity is the word, I believe. Stubborn would be another word for it. The guy lives for an argument. Don’t block him, embrace him, or ignore him. Either method should work just fine.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
At this point, I’d like to direct your attention to my current signature…..
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
cocksure.... makes me giggle.... funny stuff.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
Never quite says why Lovie isn't the answer though.
Almost all of the argument points too poor preparation by our GM and doesn’t really make any salient points about Lovie being the problem other than he tolerated Rex too long and he should have kicked deep against Atlanta. It wasn’t a bad read and overview of the Bears under Lovie just a bit of a misleading title.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
you're good!
you found my Bears preview for MVN before I even sent you a link!!!
I’d like to see the UFL work out, more successful football can only be a good thing
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jul 23, 2009 8:38 AM CDT reply actions
The UFL is starting at the most opportune time.
Big changes in the NFL may occur really soon… and one of those changes may be maximum salaries and a slotted pay scale system for draft picks. If those changes occur, and UFL teams throw more money at players than they can earn in the NFL… you may see a league stick around for a while.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Anybody hear about Vick? I heard it on "The Herd" ESPN Radio
Went to a strip club last night with Allen Iverson.
Have fun explaining than one Mike!
Yep, he did.
And why would he have to explain that to anyone? And to whom? It ain’t illegal, and has no bearing whatsoever on his potential reinstatement into the league. It’s a complete non-story, but I’m sure MSM is gonna sensationalize the shiat out of it.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
Yeah... seriously.
He didn’t make it rain $100 bills… shoot himself in the leg… or start a brawl. So… big whoop.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Guy's, it's not the act.
It’s the lack of judgement, that literally may end up costing him thousands, if not millions.
I believe that does make it news worthy.
If your a team that was considering giving him a chance, this story wouldn’t have ANY pull (one way or another) on your decision?
An adult going to a club?
I see your angle here, but objectivity trumps emotion.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
It's not emotion.
If your baiting me into my first post…hook, line and sinker!
I'm not baiting you...
and if you want to make your first post, go for it. Just be careful to make the post football related and not a moral soapbox.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
The Other Day
Chad Ochocinco was tweeting about going out to a strip club. It’s something a lot of NFL players do apparently, if Goodell disciplined all players who went to strip clubs and didn’t cause trouble then probably like 100 some players might be suspended!!
by Sam Householder on Jul 23, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
It’s something a lot of NFL players do apparently
It’s something that a lot of adults do. Adults do adult things.
I don’t see how an adult going to a club would be worthy of discipline, unless there is a unique clause contained in a contract that prohibits it.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
I love the occasional trip with the boys to the strip club.
Only when I go, I don’t punch strippers in the face or shoot bouncers like the Pacman. I just go to help those poor girls get through college with less student loan debt…one dollar at a time. :-)
If you don't...
I don’t punch strippers in the face or shoot bouncers like the Pacman.
Then why the hell go? You’re missing out bud. Nothing better then cracking a strippers orbital bone. :)
I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 23, 2009 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Question
Do you think Big Ben is gonna get suspended for his rape trial?
if so, is that a W for week 2?
"Game 7 of the 2011 Finals.. 10 seconds left in the game, the score is tied up 92-92.. Kobe with the ball he drives in.. IS BLOCKED by bosh, Rose picks it up Runs it down Throws up a pass to Wade.. WADE SCORES! GAME OVER ! BULLS WIN BULLS WIN!"
To my knowledge, no charges are being filed.
So I would say no, at this time.
Correct...
there can’t be a “rape trial” just based on accusations.
LSU Tigers Baseball... NCAA National Champions- 2009.
Civil Lawsuit not criminal
so it’s wouldn’t be defined as a rape trial. I heard she wanted 400K, I heard on the radio so no link on this one.
I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T
by Ditkavsworld on Jul 23, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
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