My response to Denver fans...
by chase17 on Aug 1, 2009 12:53 AM CDT
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I really haven't been able to visit WCG as much lately, but after seeing all these posts from Broncos fans about how immature Cutler is and how he is not as good as he is hyped up to believe I thought I would bring up a few points. I hate commenting late because I feel that nobody reads posts after a certain time period, so I thought I would start a new post.
1. On the big deal Bronco's fans seem to have with Cutler drinking, Bears fans seemed to joke knowing that Orton is a notorious drinker himself. But that was somewhat refuted by Endzone; who said...
I was not aware before now that Orton had any drinking or bad party habits. All the news here in Denver is that he shows up early and leaves late and is completely focused on the Broncos
This shows Orton as a drinker with some serious party habits, my point being you can go out and have fun and still be a team oriented guy.
2. The differences in winning percentages was brought up, and Bears fans countered with the fact the Orton had a better defense. Again Endzone (sorry to somewhat pick on you dude, but I'm just trying to respectfully disagree) responded with this...
I’ll admit your D was better than ours. But not by much
Okay last season was a bad year for our defense but Orton won 10 games in 2005 when I believe our Defense was ranked #1 in the NFL, so that helps his winning percentage. Also Orton received a lot more help from his running game than Cutler did. This was brought up by Ditkavsworld, but I just wanted to rebring it up.
3. The difference in O-Line talent between the Bears and the Broncos, while I'll admit that the Bronco's have a better O-Line I would argue not by much.
LT- We brought in future Hall of Fame Orlando Pace, which will bring the natural he is only a shell of his former self debate, but I would like to point out 2 things, 1) He only gave up 2 sacks last season, and 2) for an athlete at the end of a highly successful career I think their is a big difference between playing for a championship contender and a league bottom dweller.
LG- Most likely Frank Omiyale will be starting, which brings the he is a league journeyman response, but I will point out a few things, 1) He was a league journeyman at LT, and OT is a lot harder to play than OG, ex. Leonard Davis from the Cowboys who was initially labeled a bust after failing to produce as a highly rated LT in the draft for the Cardinals, and is now a 2 time pro bowl selection at RG, and 2) Omiyale is actually considered a very good pass protecter and that is good news for Cutler.
C- Olin Kreutz will be starting, and he was at one point considered the best center in the game, and I would argue a future Hall of Famer.
RG- Roberto Garza will be the starter, and according to stats is still one of the best RG's in the NFL
RT- Most likely Chris Williams, and this brings the unproven response, but the Bronco's did pretty good with unproven Ryan Clady last year at LT an even harder position. Now Williams was highly regarded as one of the best pass protectors in the 2008 NFL draft.
I don't know about you guys but this looks like a pretty solid pass protecting O-Line for Cutler
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Lol nice pictures
Cutler already said e is going to try to b mor mature so the broncos fans can sit tight with the 2 1st round picks we gave themd for cutler
Carlos Guillen, the Latino Nick Punto
by The_Fan on Aug 1, 2009 12:56 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Since you mention me
Just thought I’d drop by and say hi.
Very nice post!
1. I’m not a prude about drinking. My only point regarding Cutler is that he is a diabetic. The stories of his drinking, granted IF they are true (some of which I believe and some I don’t), lead me to believe that he drinks more than he should and especially more than a diabetic should. Like you say..if he shows up and does his job then OK.
2. It is always unfair to pick on one player and make them the hero or goat. Factoring in all aspects of a team (offense, defense, ST) gives a much clearer picture. One player rarely changes an entire team. Cutler may do it for you, but I don’t think so.
3. I do think you upgraded your Oline. Looking at last year’s stats and film, the Bears Oline did not give Orton a lot of time. Cutler thrived with the time given him by the Broncos Oline.
Anyhoo, like I’ve said earlier, I may be an Ogre (e.g. Shrek, aka party pooper), but I’m not a troll. Thanks for having me and I promise to always be a respectful guest in your house.
Interesting
1. I’m not a prude about drinking. My only point regarding Cutler is that he is a diabetic. The stories of his drinking, granted IF they are true (some of which I believe and some I don’t), lead me to believe that he drinks more than he should and especially more than a diabetic should. Like you say..if he shows up and does his job then OK.
Talk to propheteer about that….he is really knowledgable on all that stuff.
It is always unfair to pick on one player and make them the hero or goat.
I vehemently disagree. Hunter Hillenmeyer (our SLB last year) SUCKED at pass coverage last year. I’ll blame him all I want to.
My main point is that one really good player (Cutler) came to our team at the most important position on the football player (QB). There’s a larger chance of success and/or failure when someone that good comes into that position.
I'M A MAN! I'M 23!
Hillenmeyer
I know nothing about Hillenmeyer, but to clarify…are you saying that he was the one player responsible for any and all of the Bears problems last year?
No
But I’m saying your comment is ridiculous without a few conditions attached. I’m just saying that one player at a key position can be blamed or made into a hero throughout one game or one season.
I'M A MAN! I'M 23!
Conditions
I thought I did that when I mentioned that the game is a team effort. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
Much better defense
The difference between the Broncos and the Bears defense was a lot more than 8 spots. The Bears were second in turnovers 32-13 (2nd in the entire league). Can you imagine how many more TDs/FGs the Bears would’ve had with Cutler at QB with 19 extra possessions? Also, the Bears were 16th in the league in points allowed (350 total), while the Broncos allowed 448 for the year (28 points per game). This the true #1 stat when it comes to ranking defenses, not total yards allowed (since when does yards win games?). More stats that show more of a disparity in the two units.
Rushing defense- Bears 5th, Broncos 27th.
Interceptions- Bears 22 vs. Broncos 6.
I would say that’s more than just a tad better.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Dancing In Dandelions
You’re right. I overstated the Defense differences. I admitted though that our D sucked.
However. You have to look a little deeper. Our D sucked in part because Cutler/Offense was not scoring. Great stats between the 20s but could not score. Our ST also sucked. We had the worst starting position in the league and gave excellent position to our opponents. Back to the D, we had INCOMPETENT LOSERS as safeties and MLB. Our DC Slowik was awful.
Retort
Our ST also sucked.
This quote makes a better case for Cutler, and less of one for Orton.
Our D sucked in part because Cutler/Offense was not scoring.
Do you actually believe this to be true? There’s no way to determine the defense was worse cause the offense couldn’t score consistently. Sure, having a lead can take some pressure off the defense and create turnover situations, but there were no guarantees when talking about the ’08 Broncos defense.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
First Moves
1. I don’t understand your point about our ST making a better case for Cutler.
2. You don’t understand the Broncos offseason and I don’t expect you to. But the first move McD did was to gut the secondary and RB corps and replace them with proven veterans. If your O doesn’t score then the D has to take the field. If you are not ahead, the opposing team plays ball control/time of possession. That leads to a tired D. But you’re right about the ’08 Broncos D. Personnel and scheme were mediocre. Also remember that I added “in part.”
for one...
orton/rex almost always had a shortened field to work with, that’s what ST does for you… for two, we know how to play “ahead” and that doesn’t work either(3 losses with 10+ lead)… just a little fyi, bears led all teams in 1st qtr scoring, and still managed to lose 7 games, so again i don’t understand your point about the “tired d”… and if that doesn’t work, we could always look at the colts… their d was ALWAYS on the field, but that was due to the peyton, and his penchant for quick scores…
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
No ellaboration
Sorry I didn’t explain further about special teams play. The Bears have a good, sometimes great ST, while the Broncos as you stated sucked. If this is true, Orton has a big advantage in field position when starting each possession compared to Cutler. The overall record disparity between the two could be attributed to the differences of each respective defense and special teams’s performances.
Ex. Cutler’s record is 13-1 when his team gives up less than 21 points per game. The Bears defense gave up an average of 21.88 points per game. Which was widely considered as a down year for them. Based on these numbers, the Bears will have a chance to win most games this year.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Defense
Courtesy of the NFL:
Total Defense Bears 21st; Broncos 29th
Total Run Defense: Bears 5th; Broncos 27th
Total Pass Defense: Bears 30th; Broncos 26th
The Broncos were 29th in the league in points allowed. The Bears 16th. The Broncos D uniformly sucked and the Bears pass D sucked. While I admitted that I overstated the difference (and I know you won’t agree with me here), the Bears’ D is not what they used to be. Unfortunately for you, I don’t think you did much in the offseason to improve your D.
Let’s play fair.
i agree with
the statement of bears d not being what it used to be. last year mike brown put it plainly when he said something along the lines of “the perception is we are a good defense and the reality is we are not”.
looking forward the preseason week 3
by reefermadness3 on Aug 1, 2009 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Just to jump in the fray
Unfortunately for you, I don’t think you did much in the offseason to improve your D.
I would say we did…Pisa, John Hoke as our DB coach and Marinelli as our D Line coach are going to make some significant differences. Our current D relies on pressure from the linemen, and I believe we will see a resurgence in that this year. We are going to HIT the opposing QB right in the mouth. Should make the whole D look like world beaters.
Anything less than NFC Championship would be disappointing, at least for me.
by BigAppleBearsFan on Aug 2, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't forget the added depth
I know they’re only draft picks, but they added a highly talented “freak” in Gilbert, a versatile playmaker in DJ Moore, and nice prospect with great physical skills in Melton.
Not only that, they added Josh Bullocks for depth at FS. He doesn’t have a great track record, but we all know a change of scenery for a guy with plenty of upside. Remember, he’s only 26 and might be a good fit in the cover-2.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
food for thought
one thing i havent seen talked about and think it should be when comparing the two teams and cutler in particular.
last year the bears had no passing game to speak of so they could put eight men in the box just to stop forte and the running game, sure he had a great rookie year but his average was low for a running back.
now last year denver had so many different running backs due to injury there was just no consistancy there. that allowed the opposing defense to do the reverse they did to the bears. they loaded up the defensive backfield and clogged every passing lane up. as the field got shorter down in the red zone with no decent running attack it got even worse. the team was playing from behind and needed to try to do something and that led to alot of his interceptions.
ahead to this year i know alot has been made of the lack of recievers the bears have but i have conf that it is the quarterback that makes the recievers. also with a good consistant running game he wont be facing the loaded defensive backfield he did last year. that i think will relieve the high interceptions he had in denver. as an added plus forte will not have to face a defensive front of 8 men just waiting for the run. no more 3 yards and a cloud of dust so to say.
the best things in life will either get you drunk, make you fat or get her pregnent
Running Game
Stats indicate the Broncos gained more with their running game last ear than the Bears. Even with a banged up backfield.
Just my impression from stats & film, the Bears passing attack suffered in large part due to your Oline bookends. You addressed that pretty well with Pace and maybe with the return of Williams.
true
that is a true statement but a few games out of the 16 got it there. when a running back started to procuce then they would also get injured. denvers offensive line was alot better than the bears last year and hopefully that was taken care of in the off season
the best things in life will either get you drunk, make you fat or get her pregnent
by memountanddewu on Aug 1, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Your Camp Receivers
Reports I’ve read from your camp indicate your receivers are already dropping a lot of Cutler’s passes.
Glad to hear that my boy Iglesias from OU is doing well. Go Sooners!
I can see Forte having more success on weakside routes this year with the addition of Pace.
LINK?
Reports I’ve read from your camp indicate your receivers are already dropping a lot of Cutler’s passes.
I’ve only heard about Rasheid Davis dropping a pass, and that doesn’t surpise me one bit.
I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T
Shoot
You would ask me for a link! From the Chicago Tribune, maybe this. Something about Forte dropping a pass and saying that it was no big deal. That Cutler threw a very hard pass and it would take some time getting used to it. I think it also mentioned Olsen, Hester and Rashied. I’ve seen some other reports, but don’t remember where they were off-hand.
Please note: Cutler says, We’ve got a lot of young receivers and they’ve got to get used to the way I throw the ball," You’d think he’d be doing some adjusting for them too. But maybe that’s just me.
i was just starting to tolerate you
then you go and quote an article from 2 months ago in OTAs. that would be the same OTAs where our receivers caught their first cutler thrown passes, so, yes, our receivers needed to get used to cutler’s lasers, just like ANY wr receiver would have to do when being introduced to a NEW qb for the first time… now, for your reading pleasure/displeasure… whatever
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1695820,CST-SPT-bear01.article
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/huddleup/2009/07/observations-from-first-practice.html
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1695820,CST-SPT-bear01.article
http://www.faniq.com/article/Chicago-Bears-QB-Jay-Cutler-Comes-Out-Firing—1755398
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-02-bears-cutler-box-aug02,0,1361609.story
hope you get the idea…
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
trying to drive a point home...
think it worked???
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Buck the Froncos!
Passion For The Game, Loyal To The Name, Chicago Bears, I Trust In Thee, Standing Strong Since 1983.
I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T
by Ditkavsworld on Aug 2, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
i think we've had enough
broncos fans for a while.
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