The Bears Den - 8/17/09
by Adam T on Aug 17, 2009 4:00 AM CDT
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....where we are suddenly keeping an eye on those Afalava jerseys.
In The Den
Chicago Sun-Times
Brad Biggs tries his hands at some observations.
Now we start the Jay Cutler portion of the Sun-Times, part 1.
Chicago Tribune
David Haugh is among those that insists on analyzing everything Cutler says and takes it as a bad thing.
A little love for Craig Steltz.
3 Bears who hurt their chances.
3 Bears who helped their chances.
ESPN
A little stock up and stock down from Jeff Dickerson.
In the Vicinity of the Den
Game Thread Roll Call
| Just Dave | 89 |
| Allie | 68 |
| WCG | 62 |
Since I'm just filling in, it is only appropriate for me to bring back the pic of the day and I had to bring a good one for the guys. This is April Rose (don't know if we've had her on here before). She won some Maxim contest and is a Bears fan.
Out of the Den
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Comments
I said this in a post yesterday...
I disagree with Pompei’s comments about Knox. True, he should have caught the pass that was intercepted, but outside of that he played fast, was exciting to watch, and showed some excellent all around skills. I hope he not only makes the team, but is given a real chance to be a big part of the offense. In my opinion, he’s the guy that could be another Steve Smith in a few years, well before Hester.
I know it’s never going to happen under Lovie, but I think this whole defensive scheme needs to be overhauled. It reminds me of the old Jauron days when we played 8 – 10 yards off of the wideouts with very little inside help. Then we wonder why our D-Linemen can’t get to the QB. The ball is out before anyone can get there for the majority of the pass plays. That’s why the completion percentage is so high from the teams we play and the defense is on the field way longer than it should be. You don’t need to have a bunch of 20 yard completions to pile up 1st downs. It’s very demoralizing to the defense, not to mention the fanbase.
by BearFan611 on Aug 17, 2009 7:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I know
I’m sick to death of seeing the post-pattern/quick slant be so effective against our defense. How about not putting Briggs and Urlacher at the line? That way the passing lane isn’t wide open all the time.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Yep
Seems clear that Lovie’s approach to D is not to shut down an opposing offense, but to limit it to field goals. The Bears really are pretty good at red-zone defense, and often after giving up a bunch of pass receptions, the D holds and the opposition gets 3.
The problem with this philosophy, as seen last year, is that the D is on the field all game and is shot by the fourth quarter. Then the 3’s become 7’s and we lose. Perhaps Cutler and the O can burn clock and give the D a rest this year. But at the end of the day it just doesn’t seem like a championship approach to playing defense. It’s a passive approach and that corrodes the overall intensity and level of play over time.
I don’t have a solution, besides wishing Bowman, Moore and Afalava turn out to be excellent players.
Hinges on Harris
Unfortunately, this seems to be the case again this year. Unless of course, someone like Anderson, Gilbert, and or Melton have a good year(s). I just don’t think, with the exception of Manning, the secondary is athletic enough to get the job done in the passing game.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
We're playing far off the ball to compensate for bad performance in other areas
Mainly lack of pressure from the front four, weaker coverage skills at safety, and less physical DBs who excel at jamming at the line (Tillman and Bowman).
This defense worked very, very well in ’05 and ’06, when the right parts were in place. But, our pressure from the front 4 somehow disappeared, and our talent at safety dropped off the map.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
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I don't buy that completely...
without actually going back to game films, I seem to remember jamming the receivers more at the line back in Lovie’s first couple of years. My guess is that was more of Rivera’s doing since he was a much more aggressive coach. I do agree that our pass rush needs to improve, but if the ball is out of the QB’s hand in 2-3 seconds, they don’t have much of a chance anyway.
Jamming at the line is acutally one of the main concepts of the Cover 2.
When you’re actually in a Cover 2, the CBs are asked to jam or redirect the WRs off their route to the middle of the field, funneling them to other coverage areas occupied by LBs and safeties. Their #1 responsibility is to not allow WRs to get outside, between them and the sidelines, because the coverage is in the middle.
When Marcus Hamilton got beat by Atlanta in that final drive, it was a huge Cover 2 mishap. He should’ve never allowed the WR to get to the sideline, outside the coverage. Especially, with such little time on the clock.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Exactly my point...
why doesn’t Lovie jam at the line more often? I think his version of the Cover 2 is so vanilla (I’m not talking about this week’s game by itself) that it lends to different areas of the entire defense having problems. I agree with you completely about the pass rush needing improvement, the secondary needing improvement, etc. but I don’t have confidence in this staff making the adjustments needed or instilling the attitude they need to get back to the form that we expect in Chicago.
It's really a personnel issue
Last year, we blitzed more than any other D in the league, because we couldn’t get pressure from the front 4. And we still failed to get pressure from the blitz.
When you’re blitzing that heavily, you’re sending LBs or safeties out of their coverage zones to rush the QB. It’s a chain reaction… the CBs can’t funnel them toward a LB or safety who isn’t there. So, they change their zone responsibilities. I’m gonna guess that’s why they’ve been playing softer… along with the risk factor in getting burned deep if you miss a jam and are blitzing a safety.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Great move by Lovie Smith to rest running back Matt Forte. There is no need for a running back to play in four exhibition games. Smith informed Forte at breakfast Saturday that he would not be playing. Forte hoped to get some action but LaDainian Tomlinson has gone entire preseasons without touching the ball.
Forte must be hurt or Lovie is a Idiot.To even compare Forte to Lt is sad Lt is probably a HOF player and Forte is a good football player but he is starting his second year.Forte,if we win a Superbowl he has HOF talent but we haven’t done that yet.So to even compare Forte to Lt is Ridiculous ! Plus everyone needs preseason,I remember Peyton Manning had that knee bursitis a few years ago.And he missed most of the preseason and the first game of the year he did good but not Peyton Manning good.It took him week 3 until he was himself again.So to say Forte doesn’t need preseason bulls#^!
Is there really a need to play all 4 preseason games?
No. There’s need to play in all 4 games. I would expect him to get some carries in the next game, play with the starters the entire time in the 3rd preseason game and sit out the final game of the preseason, just like the rest of the starters.
We are who we think we are.
by Bearfan1973 on Aug 17, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
So it makes sense for Cutler to play a few series but not Forte?Forte and are running game is just as important as are passing game.
Really?
Cutler is new to this offense and is learning both a new playbook and timing with his new receivers.
This is Forte’s 2nd year in this offense and we ran him into the ground last year. Taking one game off is NOT that big of a deal. Relax dude.
"If God had wanted man to play soccer, He wouldn't have given us arms" - Ditka
Forte is also coming off a hammy pull.
They’ve been going somewhat light with him in practice, so throwing him into a game isn’t a great idea.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
I don't think
Any one is comparing Forte and LT. He was just saying LT gets all preseason off and is fine. If he had said “Forte shouldn’t play at all because he’s as good as LT and LT doesn’t play preseason.” then your argument might be warranted.
by Sam Householder on Aug 17, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it's based more off of what position they play and how demanding it is
LT is a 1st ballot HOF’er, Forte’s had one good NFL season. Pretty big difference. What do they have in common? Each is the centerpiece of his offense and both have quality backups who could use the extra PT. The only pre-season game I want to see Forte in is week 3. He can sit the rest out.
"The phone's for you, I think it's the Devil."
you know what LT and Forte have in common?
neither have won a superbowl
LT is always “too hurt” to play in post season, he isn’t even close to being a HOF player
If you want to crown em...
by JohnnyTruant on Aug 17, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
LT is the #14 All-Time leading rusher… and the #2 All-Time rushing TD leader.
So, he hasn’t played in a Super Bowl… big whoop. Walter Payton didn’t play in a Super Bowl until his 11th season.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
I was pointing out that neither have won a superbowl
as one of the only things they have in common.
LT will never win a superbowl. Ever.
Forte on the other hand has a good chance be it with the bears or another team (if his jersey sales are high enough he’ll stay with the Bears, not to mention 2nd round picks are historically easier to resign).
Don’t ever compare LT and Walter Payton. Walter Payton is in a completely different league. LT is a great back, but not the Greatest back or even close (whom I personally believe to be Barry Sanders, then closely Walter Payton). One man can’t win a superbowl by himself, it takes a team
…but he can sure as hell help. LT is injured too often, 2009 playoffs, 2008 playoffs, 2007 playoffs. You know what the difference between the greatest RB’s of all time and just great RB’s? They produce in the playoffs!
/endrant
If you want to crown em...
by JohnnyTruant on Aug 18, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Can't EVER leave Sayers out of any conversation involving the greatest running backs ever.
If Sayers had played 15 years later when the sport medicine could deal with his injuries, he would have , in my opinion, set the bar so high that no one would have ever touched it.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I would say in terms of running styles
I like Gale Sayers the most; with modern sports medicine, or even better weight training he would have undoubtedly had a longer career and I agree most likely would have been hands down the greatest RB of all time.
I mean in his rookie season he averaged about a touchdown for roughly every 10 touches.
If you want to crown em...
by JohnnyTruant on Aug 18, 2009 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
He was Barry Sanders before there was Barry Sanders.
The man was amazing. Still is. Just listen to his insight and commentary on the game today and you can tell he still gets it.
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
How can David Haugh really be playing this card so soon?
He’s going to try and stir things up after the first preseason game? wtf! Can’t we at least see half a football season before you start this BS? I mean come on Cutler is the leader of the offense and all he said was Hester needs to improve.
Collectively, a football city gasps. From Bourbonnais to Halas Hall, culture-shock waves ripple through the Bears organization. This is the difference between a starting quarterback and a franchise quarterback in the NFL, and we all are going to have to get used to it.
Come on Haugh can’t you sit on this until we at least get to see half a season of Cutler? I hate the media. Always trying to stir the pot.
Afalava
I had a good feeling about this guy ever since reading about him and seeing some of his game tape. I’m calling it now, he’s the next Polamalu!
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
LOL. I wish!
I think he’s the next Chris Harris.
And Payne, although he doesn’t know how to use his arms to tackle, actually had 4 INTs playing SS last year. So, maybe he can be adequate at FS.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
I think Payne
will be adequate at FS. Coach Hoke will help him with wrap up tackling as well. we now have 2 hard hitting Safeties back there, which should help make some receivers nervous. Our D-line looked mediocre, it’s all dependent on Harris’ play at the line this year, and then of course our Corner situation
I would debate you, but that would only lead to me being dragged away in handcuffs...
by BearNecessities on Aug 17, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
D. Manning
Isn’t he still our starting FS?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
He'll be better
He has the most speed, range, and athleticism out of any of our safeties.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
I really think our secondary Depth chart should read like
CB
1. Tillman
2. Graham
3. Bowman
4. Manning
5. Vasher
FS
1. Payne
2. Steltz
SS
1. Afalava
2. Bullocks
Bullocks won't make the team
Does anybody know the cap ramifications of cutting Vasher?
Don’t know if we will, but we should look very closely at veterans safeties who get cut from other teams.
On another note, I haven’t heard anyone talking about Bennett, but my guess is that he has been benefiting all along in camp from matching up against Vasher.
I know Rashied Davis doesn’t get a lot of love on this site, but he played with a vengance during the portion I saw Saturday (first half), and I think he should be restored to the first team. He looked committed to earn back his job.
One more note, I like Kellen Davis better than Dez Clark.
"We can do it any way you want to. We can go right out back and get it on or you can shape your ass up."
by FullbackDive on Aug 17, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't cut Vasher
He’s not good.
But with Tillman and Bowman having injuries, if they go down during the season I rather have Vasher then some scrub we pick up like we did last year with Hamilton
Kellen Davis
is looking better, think it’s a little early to replace Dez Clark though. Dez has been one of the most consistent and reliable starters on this team for years and he doesn’t really seem to have lost anything yet.
I mostly agree with you about the much maligned Dropapotamus. He looked like he was back to his old form and I suspect he will be a good option for us in the slot.
Dropapotamus
His demise was a bit premature IMO. He’s back to the position he’s most comfortable with, and should have a rebound year.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Bullocks
is a FS based on his skill-set. He’s definitely not an “in-the-box” safety. I think Payne will ultimately end up at SS; it’s where he fits the best.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Vasher costs too much to have him at #5
if they are going to rank him that low, they need to cut him or trade him or try to restructure.
Being Who You Thought We Were Since 2005!
Nice pic for the Den Boss!
I know the regular season is getting closer when the hot ladies reappear in the Den. :)
I'm teaching fools some basic rules.- MR.T
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