A Different Opinion Than You All Are Used to From A Broncofan
I hope it is alright that I posted this here but this is a comment I put up on Mile High Report, I wanted Chicago fans to know that we don't all hate Cutler and we don't all think that you guys will suck just because you have Cutler. Another thing I wanted to add was that my Brother-in-law lives in Minnesota so I pull for you guys to sweep the Viklings every year. He and I have pulled numerous practical jokes on each other over the years and I might post that story here sometime as it has been very entertaining at times. Anyway here is the comment, hopefully it will show you that we Bronco Fans havent all jumped on the Hate Jay bandwagon and are hoping for the Bears failure just because we lost our QB.
Losing Cutler may or may not hurt our ability to win. It is definitely debateable whether or not it was partly Cutlers fault, but we haven’t won much with him at the helm. Say what you want about Cutler, but he is very talented and I think he will be at least decent for Chicago. Sometimes a change is needed, that may be the case for the Broncos as well as Jay. Do you think Joe Montana would have been as successful in a different system? We will never know for sure. Personally I don’t think Cutler would have worked for us under the current coaching regime, whether or not Orton will remains to be seen. I think Orton will be better for us than he was for Chicago, the question I have is how much better? None of us know for sure yet, but I am impressed so far and will give Orton a year or two before I make up my mind.
My personal opinion is that Orton will have success here in Denver and I hope he is VERY successful. We are going to find out over the next couple of seasons. Another question that comes to mind when I consider the Cutler trade is that I seem to remember that Chicago tried to air it out more when Grossman was the man, will they open it up more with Cutler under center? Bronco fans, myself included, have said that Cutler will fail in Chicago because they have no recievers and they are a running team who only uses their QB’s as game mangers not to mention the difference in our O-line vs Chicago’s. Well I think they may make some changes with Cutler under center and you will see a more open attack provided the receivers they have can get the job done.
Now I am not trying to start another Cutler Vs Orton debate but I am saying that I think Orton will benefit from a change in systems and scenery while at the same time, Cutler has better than average chance to be successful in Chicago. Could it be that both sides win in the deal?
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heh
I dunno, too early to tell who wins this trade. I just wanted to be a smart ass. Say thank you to Mr. Jameson.
Ok, off to the bar.
"If God had wanted man to play soccer, He wouldn't have given us arms" - Ditka
debate?
Now I am not trying to start another Cutler Vs Orton debate
there is no debate. Hands down we won, you probably could have gotten another 1st round draft pick out of us.
If you want to crown em...
I'm satisfied with the compensation......................
and when I mentioned that debate I wasn’t saying that it was questionable, I was referring to the many different discussions I have seen since the trade on the subject of Cutler VS. Orton. In my opinion, Cutler is the more talented QB, however we didn’t trade them straight up, that is why I think both sides could come out winners here. I repeat, the point of my post was not to debate who is the better QB as I agree with you on who is more physically gifted. I am simply saying that this deal might turn out good for both sides. Part of my motivation is to rebutt the fans from both camps who suddenly hate Orton/Cutler because they are on different teams now. Especially since draft picks were involved, it will take time to see if both sides come out winners or if one wins and one loses.
We gotta get nastier on D!!!!!!!!!
I have a question for you or any bronco fan
I keep reading you guys saying that orton is gonna be good for you guys where he wasnt with us, but none of you guys ever elaborate, I want to know why you think he will be successful? I have to admit before during last years training camp when the qb position was up for grabs I was rooting for grossman, because I didnt think kyle had the tools (arm strength, athleticism, ability to read the defense) to be a starter in the nfl. However when he was named the starter I was surprised by his play somewhat ( he still couldnt throw a good deep ball, or escape anyone in the pocket). So I want to know what you you bronco fans see that gives you so much confidence in him (other than that he isnt Chris Cimms).
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Aug 30, 2009 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair question
We are running a flexible system. For simplicity, let’s call it a Walsh West Coast Offense. It operates with a base 3WR set, sometimes 4 and 5. The drops (or shotgun) are meticulously defined and the checkdown process is timed. The routes are based on reads of keys in the defense. And, if there is no one open, you throw it away. So far, so good. This is very close to what Orton ran at Purdue.
Contrary to popular opinion, the Bears don’t run a WCO. They run more of an Air Coryell offense (when discussing passing). The WCO stretches the field horizontally and rarely passes more than 15 yards downfield, but AC is more a vertical stretch and long passes are more common. Orton’s weakness is accuracy on the long ball, as you well know. However, in the WCO, he doesn’t need to throw a long ball. He needs to follow directions, find the open receiver, and deliver an accurate throw less than 15 yards downfield in under 4 seconds. He can excel at that. In the first few preseason games, if you grant him the learning curve (the interceptions), he ran that offense pretty well. I think you guys know that he isn’t really an interception machine; he’s still learning this offense.
Could Cutler run the Bronco WCO? Of course he can, physically. But he’s more of a gunslinger and tends to make his own decisions on the field instead of following the coach’s orders. You’re going to rarely see him throw a ball away. That personality won’t fit with what McD wants out of his personnel. He’s a bit military. Cutler is not the military type.
So that’s why we think Orton will be better in Denver than he was in Chicago. And being that we had so many other holes in our team to fill, we gave up some QB value to get some help elsewhere. So, even though we are weaker at QB, we are much improved in other areas. And we think that although we gave up some QB value, we still have enough QB value left to score a lot of points in this kind of WCO.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 30, 2009 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
good answer
that answer just convinced me that you guys are not completely screwed, however I feel bad for you guys, your division is gonna be a difficult one this year (not counting the raiders).
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Aug 30, 2009 3:00 AM CDT up reply actions
hahaha.
NEVER count the Raiders. With Al Davis at the wheel, their only hope of success is one of luck.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Yeah. They got beat
45-7 or something like that. I saw that game. It wasn’t as close as the score would indicate.
Wherever you go, there you are.
the tougher division
You’re kidding right. The Bears face a much more difficult division. The Packers and Vikings are very strong teams, although Childress may have killed team chemistry with Favre. On paper, San Diego is the only team in the AFC West in the same tier. KC and Oakland are among the bottom feeders with Detroit.
I think
he meant that the Broncos schedule is rated very difficult, while the Bears is statistically the easiest in the NFL.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
actually I meant something else
I dont see why anyone would think the chiefs with a first year head coach would be prohibitively better than the broncos who also have a first year head coach. I didnt mean the division was gonna be tough, just that it would be tough for the broncos.
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Aug 31, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
They play the NFC and AFC east
That’s why I said they’re schedule is very tough this year.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Bears offense
You’re right that it’s not a true WCO offense, but it is derived from it. Turner’s style is predicated on a power-running game, with emphasis on play-action. That’s not to say Cutler won’t be throwing many short to intermediated passes though. It’s just not going to be a spread type of offense like the Pats, Colts, or Broncos. Orton should be a nice fit in McD’s system cause it’s a quick hit, short passing offense in which the QB must be accurate in order to be successful. With the Bears, he wasn’t considered very accurate even though he did well with short-medium passes, but struggled mightly with deep and “bomb” like passes.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Oh, yes.
Cutler is going to fit into the Bears offensive mindset very well. Very well.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 30, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Don’t we need to wait until all the returns are in before we know who won the election, so to speak? After all, draft picks take a little time to develop, right?
And I think we should let a season, or at least a few real games go by, before we pass judgment.
You might well have gotten the better end of the deal. Cutler is a rocking QB. But we won’t know for a few years, truth be told.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Exactly my point Sam.................
Time will tell, but I think there is a good chance both teams come out better off for having done this trade. It could be I’m wrong but my point is that it would be stupid to say Denver will suck or the Bears will suck when the draft picks haven’t even all been used yet, not to mention the fact that no games that really count have been played yet.
We gotta get nastier on D!!!!!!!!!
I even posted in another thread on here
about how I think Cutler makes the Bears offense better. They did get better when they swapped out Orton for Cutler because Cutler is a better fit in their type of offense.
The question for us, what with all the draft picks along with Orton, is did our team as a whole get better. We won’t know for a few years. We haven’t even gotten all the players from the Chicago picks yet – there’s still next year’s #1.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 29, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, your draft picks may turn out to be great for you guys.
As far as the qb, we by far got the better end. That may seem obvious, but there’s been a hell of a lot of your brethren insisting that Orton is just as good as Cutler. Considering what we usually do with our draft picks, I’m quite happy with what we got.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
To be totally honest
Bronco fans can’t even agree on who we got for Cutler. Sure, we took the RB Knowshon Moreno with the Bronco first pick at 12 and DE/LB Robert Ayers with your pick at 18, but would we have taken Moreno if we didn’t have your pick? And we traded the Bronco first round next year for a second round this year, CB Alphonso Smith. But if we didn’t have your first round next year, would we have made that trade? We might not have the cap room to pay 2 first rounders this year and 2 first rounders next year. And we combined the 3rd round pick from you with ours to move up and take a TE Quinn. So do we include 1/2 of Quinn? Which half?
So with so many draft picks, being able to compare apples to apples is sketchy at best. But here’s what I hope: that the trade was so good for both of us that we meet in Miami in February. (And then we beat you.)
Wherever you go, there you are.
any assertion that orton is even close to cutler is crazy
I do love how bronco fans that admit cutler is better always qualify it by saying something like cutler is more “physically” gifted, as if orton could possibly bridge the gap by being able to read a defense or look off a saftey.
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Aug 30, 2009 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's an interesting problem...
Cutler is a phenomenal talent. I hope the Bears don’t make the mistake of building the offense around his talent. It’s tempting to do so – Shanahan did it with Elway. But when you design an offense to take advantage of a once in a decade talent it contains the seeds of its own destruction. Shanahan designed plays that defenses didn’t expect to have to defend, and thus became successful. A signature play was to roll Elway out right and then throw back across his body to a WR at the left sideline that was wide open because, well, nobody can make that throw. Cutler throws a great deep ball – accurate. He can make that Elway throw. You’re going to get spoiled and instead of having plays that depend on the whole team, you’ll end up having plays that depend on Cutler. If you develop plays that take advantage of Cutler’s special talent, you have created a problem.
If Cutler gets injured, you’re dead in the water because nobody can come in and take the place of Cutler. As long as he’s healthy, you’re fine. Look at the Colts. If Manning went down, no one can do what he does. The have designed their offense to play to Manning’s strengths. Without Manning, it won’t work.
In the little I’ve seen of Cutler in the preseason, it looks like you have already drawn up some plays that take advantage of Cutler’s strengths. I’ll tell ya, he’s fun to watch. But I do hope that Lovie runs plays that any QB can run and just asks Cutler to perfectly execute those plays. And hope he doesn’t get hurt.
Wherever you go, there you are.
Sam...
I’ve been unable to get more than a few minutes to read the few threads you and other Broncos fans have posted, but here’s a take I have for you guys.
Your assessment of the offensive “philosophies” of each team is spot on above. The 2 big changes to the “AC” offense that Turner employs is rolling Jay out (plays to his mobility) and 2 TE sets (plays to the TE strength of the bears). The offense is not much different than it was last year, but it is simply calling plays that Orton could not execute well. Jay will excel because of Forte, Olsen, Clark and Forte, Olsen, Clark will excel because of Jay; start to see the difference.
Orton cannot run or avoid pressure, so the structure of the McDnaiel’s offense will play to his strength, however, if Orton cannot throw deep successfully often enough, teams will stack 8 in the box or run nickel and dime sets to counteract the “dink and dunk” attack. Nonetheless, the offense will be adequate, but not flashy and is not suited to playing “catch-up” style football. This brings me to the Broncos defense (no pun intended). Nolan is a smart guy (awful head coach) but the lack of talent on the defense is unmistakable. Looking at the Bronco’s schedule, I do not see how they win more than 6-8 games. I am not a “my-team-is-better-than-your-team” fan, but your defense is not good enough to hold on to any leads or keep Orton from having to play catch up this season. Thus, you are asking Orton to do what he does poorly, score lots of points quickly with long accurate throws. I hope the Bears do well this season, but I am satisfied that Cutler makes the Bears a better team now. Your draft picks will eventually even out this deal, but Orton is an interim solution. The Nolan Defense will have to succeed well beyond its capability to win games and I just do not see how it can. This is regardless of how the teams play tonight.
Nevertheless, I do wish Broncos fans well, and I appreciate the courage you have in engaging another team’s fans on another team’s thread.
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
We don't know yet
what either the offense or the defense can do. As with every team in the preseason, we’re just doing vanilla things to evaluate personnel. Huge changes happen from year to year in the NFL with even fairly modest changes (think of Miami). Nolan is running more of a 5-2 than a true 3-4 and there are some holes in that defense (seams and flats). I’ll be watching tonight to see if the Bears attack that, and how Nolan responds scheme-wise.
And a quick thank you to all the Bears fans on this site. We can go lots of places to talk smack but there are precious few sites where we can go to talk football. It seems like this SBNation family of sites is the place to do this. I hope the fans over at www.milehighreport.com are as respectful of you as you all have been of me.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 30, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
That, my friend, was basically an excellent post. However, should any Bronco fan come here predicting significantly more than your proposed 6-8 wins, they are either trolling or drunk. Most of us do not expect more than that and would not be surprised to get even fewer wins, based on our schedule. However, based on what McDaniels has done already this pre-season we would not be too terribly shocked if they did sneak a couple extra wins in, ala Miami and Arizona of last year. You never know. I would not expect anyone to have much respect for our defense either, but it isn’t the same defense from last year, being that very few names from last year are even here anymore = ) Nolan has already made for a better looking defense in the first two games, so I don’t think you will hear too many of us complaining based on the improvement from last year.
I would like to add that I don’t think Cutler sucks, nor do I support the perception many of you have that we all hate him and think that he will destroy your team. BUT! if he doesn’t improve his attitude and maturity from the levels we saw in Denver, it will become a negative factor in Chicago as well. Where I differ from many is that I think that Cutler began realizing even before he left Denver that he was over-reacting and damaging his value and public persona… he was just too immature and invested in the position he had taken to back down from it. I don’t really expect him to take the same tack in Chicago. Unless the O-line and receiving corps can’t keep defenses from planting him firmly and frequently. Then you might have something to worry about.
Just a few more hours now and we all will know just a little bit more about where we stand. Can’t wait! Good luck to you all…. and here’s hoping no one leaves other than on his own two feet.
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal
meant to reply to Lost InSTL, BTW
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal
Point taken...
Honestly, I just like the discussion. Best of luck this year. Again, at least you’re not a Raider’s fan. That kind of despair would be intolerable.
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
Huh?
If you develop plays that take advantage of Cutler’s special talent, you have created a problem.
Yeah, thats really screwed the Colts too what with Manning missing all those games…
Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave
Right, Allie.
They’ve been lucky. Reeves was a one trick pony in the 80s with Elway. If Elway had gotten hurt, they wouldn’t have made those SB appearances. As long as Cutler doesn’t get hurt, you’ll be fine.
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 30, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
IF!
You can say that about every team. I don’t think we should focus on the what if. That’s kind of counter productive. Is Caleb Hanie as good as Cutler? No he’s not but I think he’s a good back up. Will we win the super bowl with him? No, but I doubt the Colts would win one with Jim Sorgi either.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Aug 30, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
i liked orton and was sad to see him go
he worked hard and didnt even complain when his starting job was taken away 16 games into a 13-3 season. i wish him luck, despite my occasional urge to defenestrate some of the broncos fans for acting like a jilted ex. i believe he will serve you well while hes there.
i just get the feeling that broncos fans arent getting what they were expecting. orton was constantly facing 8 and 9 man fronts because nobody was afraid of his arm. our offense always had a short field in front of them because the bears defense was near the top of the league in takeaways and the bears special teams play always gave them great field position.i hope for your sake that with the several draft picks that we included, this trade will improve your team, but considering the number of first round picks weve spent trying to get a qb like cutler, i think we also got better with the trade.
by BearockWay on Aug 30, 2009 12:15 AM CDT reply actions
I Liked Orton
As an Average Quarterback as opposed to below average Quarterbacks like Brady Quinn. Or Henry Burris. Or Peter Tom Willis.
?
below average Quarterbacks like Brady Quinn
?
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
I would agree with that discription of brady quinn
"snuffalufagus fucks my shit up"
by leopoldjones on Aug 30, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions
The difference is.......
….that Jay Cutler has yet to be surrounded by a REAL team, while Kyle Orton has been for most of his career.
I watched Kyle Orton frequently in college – I lived in Seattle at the time, and we would get many early (10 am PT) Big 10 college games. I thought it was fantastic that the Bears were able to get him in the 4th round. I liked Kyle on the Bears and always rooted for him to succeed. But even on division- and conference-winning ballclubs, he could never elevate his game to the next level, he could never clearly beat out guys like Rex Grossman and Brian Griese. There were stretches of games where Kyle looked like the starter for a decade, and other stretches where…well…not so much.
All the while Kyle was surrounded by a decent, above-average OL, professionals like Thomas Jones, Matt Forte, Muhsin Muhammed (as much as I hate him now), Bernard Berrian, Desmond Clark, Devin Hester, etc. And, during his run with the Bears, Kyle was the beneficiary of one of the best defenses and, arguably, the very best special teams in the NFL. I’ve posted here before about how the Bears average starting field position over the past five seasons was their 33.5 yard line, while for the Broncos it was the 28.5. Five yards on every drive is a huge difference.
Meanwhle, Jay Cutler has been surrounded by a good-to-great offensive line. But that’s it. The Broncos’ defense and special teams during Jay’s tenure were…I’ll try to be polite….much worse than the NFL average. And he had a revolving door behind him at running back. I’ve watched many of the Broncos games from last season, and it’s surprising to me as a Bears fan how few two-back sets were used during the season, and how many times there were no RBs at all. I understand different styles of football – but for Denver fans to claim Jay didn’t help them win, when the Broncos are running plays with no RBs 33-50% of the time, is insane.
And the biggest laugh about the situation for me personally has come from the endless talk about the difference in the Broncos’ and Bears’ WR situations. It’s as if NFL fans don’t realize that a great QB makes great WRs, and not vice-versa. I admit, the Bears have no real seasoned NFL WRs. Granted. Brandon Marshall was a fourth-rounder (and we see what type of WR he is now that Culter is gone, right?) What do Eddie Royal and Marques Colston have in common? They had great QBs for their rookie season. Good WRs can be found anywhere, first round, seventh round, free agency, bagging groceries, because their performance depends so much on the guy throwing the football.
Kyle Orton is a competent NFL QB, who was able to win on ballclubs that went to the playoffs with, or without, him. He’s now going to a ballclub in disarray. I lived in Denver for two years and I have no particular dislike for the Broncos. But Pat, Josh, and Kyle have their work cut out for them, and it’s not going to be easy.
Meanwhile, Jay Cutler is going to a team with a stable coaching staff that narrowly missed the playoffs last season, only a few years removed from being one of the best teams in the land. We’ll soon see that the Broncos will lose ballgames, with or without Kyle Orton. The only mystery about the trade is whether Jay Cutler can stabilize the Bears QB situation for 5 years or more. If he can, the Bears team that won 40 games in the last four seasons should be able to take the next step and become a consistently excellent team.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Aug 30, 2009 4:32 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Here here
I couldn’t have said it better.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
some thoughts
In terms of the QB position, I think Chicago “won”. Cutler has the better skill set.
However, in terms of the offense as a whole, the jury is out. McDaniels’ system has certainly been impressive in their ability to move the ball so far. If they can eliminate the mistakes on the goal line, they’re going to put up some points. Chicago’s offensive situation is still murky. The running game is solid and should help Jay. The pass protection is a work in progress. Jay’s already been knocked down several times in only a couple of quarters. It will take some time for the revamped O-line to gel into a unit. They should be better than last year. I’m not convinced Turner is the answer at OC. This will be a make-or-break season for him.
As for the season as a whole, it’s way too early to tell who the “winners” are. A lot depends on the defenses. There are huge question marks for both teams. The Bears were hot-and-cold last year on defense and may start out cold this year with a battered secondary. Why were they mediocre-to-bad the past two years and is Lovie taking the reins the answer? Who knows where the Broncos are at with their defense? They can’t be worse than last year. The 5-2 looks they’ve been giving so far are intriguing and will be something to watch tonight.
In the long term, I think the Bears carry some risk with Jay. He will almost certainly demand $100,000,000 to stay on with the Bears. Are they willing to pay up? If the Bears make it deep into the playoffs, the decision is easy. If not, who knows?
I love how our OLine gets labeled as "terrible"
by bronco fans who have no clue what they are talking about. Our Oline gave up 27 sacks last year and was far from terrible. They finished above average in the league in sacks allowed. Our line was very average last year with a tackle in the twilight of his career (Tait) and a below average one on the other side (St Clair). They also threw in a young guard in Beekman who had not played before. They faced constant 8 man fronts because their QB was not accurate beyond 10 yards but still managed to produce a nearly 1,300 yard rusher last year. Were they a great line line? no, very average due to their skill sets. Now fast forward to this year. We pick up Pace, our no 1 from last year Williams, sign Omilaye to give us more size inside and we have a much more dominant line. Not to mention we have more depth than ever before. Our pass blocking in the preseason has been excellent and our run game has continued to improve. With Cutler’s ability to stretch the field we will see less of the 8 man fronts and a more consistent running attack which will vault Forte’s YPC from 3.9 into the mid 4’s. Are we as good as the Bronco Oline? No, but we are head and shoulders above last year and we are at least in the upper half of the league in that ranking.
Pretty good points all around mojo.
I don’t know a whole lot about Chicago’s current state at this point in preseason, but it’s safe to say your guys are assessing and evaluating just as much as our guys are.
I know people are trashing us (not saying you are) for throwing the ball most of the time in preseason, but as anyone with football knowledge can attest to, the passing game takes much longer to get right than the running game does (especially in McD’s complex offense). It’s just the nature of the beast. With that in mind, I try and look at what happened last week in Seattle (3 straight passing plays on 2, 3, and 4th down) with a grain of salt. Of course if it were regular season we would run the ball in. When you’ve got first and goal on the 1 yard line, it’s pretty stupid NOT to run it in. However, there will come a time in the season where you may NEED to throw the ball at that point. They were just practicing that drill, in my opinion.
As for Denver’s defense, I know there’s quite a few question marks there. It’s clear after the 08 season that our entire defense and the scheme just needed to go. The only starters between 08 and 09 are Champ Bailey, Elvis Dumervil, and DJ Williams if I remember right. Bob Slowik’s defensive scheme was non-existent. he didn’t have one. It was a murky plan to begin with, and the defense obviously had no structure at all. It didn’t help that Mike Shanahan viewed the defense as “second class citizens” to the offense. If you’re curious who said that, it was Champ Bailey. I think the problems on our defense started at the top, and worked their way all the way down to every last detail.
No one knows how Mike Nolan’s defense will work this year, but given what we’ve seen so far, it will be much MUCH better than last years atrocity. We’ve done a pretty good job at pressuring the quarterback (nabbing 7 sacks so far), but our secondary needs some work. Hopefully Brian Dawkins’ presence will be a huge factor there. Everyone in Denver is eagerly awaiting the “Weapon X Effect”. Luckily, he’ll be starting tonight, and I’m very interested in how our secondary will perform now that all 4 starters are together on the field.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
denver's running game
That makes sense about exercising the passing game in preseason, but isn’t the run blocking scheme also very different this year? What is the status of your running backs? Will we see Moreno tonight or is he still out with an injury?
One of the other factors in evaluating “THE TRADE” is Ayers. How has he looked in the preseason?
Moreno
is still out. There is an addition to the run block scheme. McD kept the zone block coaches from last year (the only coaches he kept, really) and there is still some zone blocking. But McD has brought the standard blocking scheme back as well. So, we’re using both. The OL is the same personnel as last year and adding another layer of complexity hasn’t seemed to affect them. It’s going to be more difficult for defenses because they can’t plan just for ZB anymore. We are starting Correll Buckhalter – he was Westbrook’s backup. Behind him is Lamont Jordan, another career backup. Also running will be Peyton Hillis. Of the 3, Hillis is the real power runner. He’s a converted FB and weighs in at 250#.
Ayers knows he’s supposed to be on the football field. He just isn’t quite sure where. I hear that Football Follies is going to dedicate an entire episode to him. Kidding aside, he’s playing rookie ball. He shows flashes, but he’s just lost. Until the light comes on, I can’t really say whether he’s going to be a good player or not. On defense, the backup NT Chris Baker is making some noise. Joe Paterno kicked him off the team for getting in a publicized fight and he ended up playing at Hampton. A smaller school, but he did dominate. At the time he got kicked off Penn, he was projected as a 2nd-3rd rounder pick. We picked him up as a CFA.
Another part of “THE TRADE” is your first round pick for 2010 that we still have. Would the Bears consider going 0-16 so we can have the first overall?
Wherever you go, there you are.
by YosemiteSam on Aug 30, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
great info
Thanks for the info. I appreciate getting real insight into other teams.
Why would you want the first overall pick? I think the worst positions in the draft are the top 10 picks. They are horribly overpriced (if you can sign them) and tremendously risky.
The first overall pick
has the most value for somebody. If Orton doesn’t pan out, there are some good QBs coming out. I’m hoping with a new CBA that the rookie structure will be addressed and this draft pick contract madness can stop.
Second, if we don’t want to take the first pick, someone will trade up handsomely for that pick. So, I look at it as money in the bank.
Wherever you go, there you are.
hopefully it starts to slow down
once this preseason game is over.
Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave
Both sides win?
To be blunt I could care less if the Broncos make out in this deal since the only time I care what the Broncos do is when it affects the Bears. Cutler will be a stud for the Bears, of that I am sure and I think you know in your heart there is precious little chance of Orton being anything close to what Cutler will be.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 30, 2009 11:35 AM CDT reply actions
I think you know in your heart
What most of know who understand what the Broncos are doing is that Orton would get benched or worse should he try to become Cutler. Cutler wasn’t comfortable with the idea of what McDaniels would require, and Orton is. You have by far the more talented and athletic of the two, but we are not asking Orton to be that. If you think about it, Brady isn’t asked to be that either, and the scheme works fine there as well.
(no, Orton isn’t Brady, but they have similar responsibilities in game management, where Cutler will be needed and required to do more based on his athleticism)
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal
WHAT?
You have by far the more talented and athletic of the two, but we are not asking Orton to be that. If you think about it, Brady isn’t asked to be that either, and the scheme works fine there as well.
I know you clarified that by saying that Orton isn’t Brady, but Brady is arguably the most talented QB in the league, the only way you could compare them is by lack of athleticism that both share.
And
Brady is poised and elusive in the pocket, while Orton can’t avoid the pass rush that often.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
And
Brady is nearly automatic on his deep passes, everyone knows about ortons deep ball.
by Staleystan595455 on Aug 30, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
other than that Orton is just like Brady
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 31, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Cutler in the Bears offense
I don’t think he’s going to be asked to do a ton like last season with the Broncos. I can see his attempts being well under 500 (616 last year?!), cause Turner’s offense and Smith’s philosophy is relatively conservative in nature. With that said, play-action is a big part of what the Bears do in order to make plays in the passing game. Set up the pass with an effective power-running game.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
You either think way too much of Orton or
way too little of Brady.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 31, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Best of luck...
Thanks for the post. It’s nice to get a different perspective. I hope this trade works for the both of us. I always liked Orton. Whenever the Bears called upon him, he stepped up and did his job. He never griped about Grossman or Griese. A lot of people characterize him as a game manager, but the thing is he got type-cast. When we needed him to manage a game that was his role. However, last season I felt he made great strides at becoming a game changing QB. Really he was one game way from bringing his team to the playoffs. And if you want to get technical, he did get robbed of a win in Atlanta after he drove the team to a TD with 21 seconds left. But alas poor time management and an onside kick?!? led to a loss at the hands of Matt Ryan. I truly hope that Orton is successful. I do think he can be a leader.
by Tinkers-Evers-Chance on Aug 30, 2009 10:51 PM CDT reply actions
OUR LITTLE BROTHER
Very insightful, too bad about orton’s hand, but the bottom line is Jay Culter has the physical ability to do Kyle Orton cannot. We chicago sports fans exist on hope, we support our teams like their our little brothers. If all Culter needs is a little love and reconition, then we will gadly provide that and more. If he starts acting up we will get him really drunk, kick him a few times while he’s passed out, and tell him what terrible things he did that he does not remember and that should keep him humble for awhile, in other words just treat him like what he is OUR LITTLE BROTHER!
Dude ...
Cutler didn’t have the win-loss record to die for because the Broncos defense sucked. When they gave him a chance i.e. when the defense held the opposing offense to 21 points or less, he was 12-1 as a starter. JC won’t have that problem in Chicago.

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