Expectations And Myth/Reality Of Jay Cutler
by BF_Phantom on Sep 14, 2009 8:47 AM CDT
139 comments
I can’t sleep. It’s 7 a.m. on the East Coast and I’ve been lying in bed for an hour replaying last night’s game. And considering I only slept about four hours and am still in a bit of a rum-soaked haze from an un-sober day/night of football I ask for all of your courtesy and forgiveness if this posting is a bit scattered. (Not too mention that extra bitterness left over from a tough, tough, tough loss to Green Effin’ Bay.)
Right now it’s easy to pile on Jay Cutler. The NFL, from a fan’s standpoint, is the most reactionary, knee-jerk, short-sighted sport that there is. Part of that comes from the amount of times in between games and the way it allows microanalysis of every play/player/situation. Part of it is the limited number of games compared to the other sports. But most of it is simply an offshoot of the tremendous passion for the game and for each of our teams.
And right now that same knee-jerk, hyper-sensitive nature of the sport that tricked people into believing that Jay Cutler was a savior and a “franchise quarterback” is the same thing that has people ready to burn him at the stake. I don’t think that either approach is accurate and I think that people just need to wake up and have a reality check on Jay Cutler.
Basically, Jay Cutler is who I thought he was. And here is a link to some analysis that was written over a month ago, and is looking pretty prescient this morning. And the whole point of this is that Bears Nation is going to be continually disappointed unless we start aligning our collective expectations of Jay Cutler with the reality of what he does and doesn’t bring to the table.
Look, there are pretty much three camps with Cutler. First, there is the Blind Loyalists. These people are simply wet for Cutler and they are going to make excuses and defend him throughout his career. They’ll blame his defense. They’ll blame his offensive line. They’ll blame his receivers. They are apologists and zealots and they are ignorant to the reality of his past, present and future football career. Then there are The Haters. These people think Cutler is a punk, a jerk, an overrated, hype-filled baby who isn’t nearly worth the adulation that has been heaped on him. Finally, there is the middle ground, level-headed Bears fans who still aren’t quite sure what to think. They are hopeful the he can mature into The Man for our franchise, but they still posses a healthy amount of skepticism towards a relative unknown in terms of playing for our hallowed organization.
If you clicked on the link then you know where I stand. But let me say that I am actually closer to that middle ground that you might think, mainly because of my love for my team and my hope that we can return to the fleeting greatness we’ve experienced over the last 20 years. So instead of continuing the line of thought expressed in that link and taking this opportunity to pour salt in our collective open wound I’m going to try to speak to that middle ground:
This is Jay Cutler: He is going to win us some games that we shouldn’t win but he is also going to lose us a bunch of games that we shouldn’t lose. He is a lot closer to Rex Grossman, Daunte Culpepper and young Kerry Collins than he is Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. He is never going to be in that elite class of QB (like Manning, Brady, McNabb, etc.) but he is also much better than a bum like Jeff George.
When a team like Detroit or Cleveland comes to Chicago this year I’m going to be terrified. Because those are the games in which we should absolutely dominate but the turnover-prone Cutler is capable of completely imploding. And right now the gauntlet of Green Bay, at Baltimore and Minnesota late in the year (which, if we’re going to be playing postseason football, that’s the stretch that’s going to make or break us) is enough to give me cold sweats.
However, while Cutler is going to lose some games in horrific, Grossman-esque style for us the difference is that Cutler is also good enough to go out and win a game or two that maybe we shouldn’t. (Grossman was not. Even his best performances usually came against completely overmatched opponents.)
A perfect example will likely be in a couple weeks when we travel out to Seattle. That’s a ridiculous place for opponents to play. Just a tough place to go into and win as a visitor. And we’ll be playing a team with a core of guys that have won multiple division titles and a team that is primed for a solid bounce back year. But you know what, I’m likely going to have my money on Chicago that day even though we’re likely going to be underdogs. Why? Jay Cutler. Because those are the games – against a leaky defense, on the road, as an underdog, back-against-the-wall (if we’re 0-2 it could be a season-defining game) – that he can go out, sling the ball around, and make an opponent look bad while making our offense look like a machine. That’s exactly what he did in Denver this preseason against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, and that’s what I think he’ll do in Seattle against a really shaky Seattle back seven.
But that’s my point: Jay Cutler is always going to be better with low expectations. So if you really want him to be a “savior” then you need to lower your expectations to slightly above a Grossman level. If that is your bar then he’s going to exceed your expectations a significant amount of the time because, well, he’s simply better than Grossman was.
But if your bar is the myth that he is going to be some perennial Pro Bowl quarterback, that he is some “franchise” guy that is going to have us in the playoffs consistently over the next decade, and that he’s one of the best quarterbacks in the game (headed for that Rushmore of the Mannings, Bradys, McNabbs, etc.), then you are absolutely kidding yourself and you are setting yourself to feel like you do this Monday morning more times than not.
The reality is that Jay Cutler is a mediocre NFL quarterback. And by that I mean that if I were doing rankings he’s probably around No. 14 to No. 16. I’m not talking about “potential”, which can be fickle, and long-term returns, which are unpredictable. I’m talking about one game, playing for your soul, and you need a quarterback, Jay Cutler would probably be about the 15th name that I call. Some people might have him higher. Some might be lower. But the bottom line is that Cutler is right about in the middle of NFL quarterbacks. And the sooner Bears fans realize that and adjust their expectations the better off we will all be.
And here is the reason that he’s No. 15 – because some weeks he can look like he’s No. 5 (last year on Monday Night Football against the pathetic Raiders) and some weeks he looks like he’s No. 25 (Sunday night in Green Bay). So just because someone is capable of going out and throwing for 320 and 3 TDs two or three times a year doesn’t make them an elite quarterback. Especially when they are going to go out and throw for 190 and 3 INTs two or three times a year. Winning in the NFL is about taking care of the ball and making good decisions CONSISTENTLY. If you can’t do that, you’re not a great quarterback. And Cutler can’t consistently do that so he’s not a great quarterback. Period.
(And, I have to say, in the top post on this blog today I found it laughable that the first line is making apologies for Cutler by trying to blame his receivers for those interceptions. Give me a break. The guy had four interceptions. He could have had about six. He is the quarterback. He is the one responsible. He is the one throwing the ball. Quit making excuses for him. If he wasn’t sure what the receivers were going to do then take a sack. Throw the ball away. Manage the game. Do anything but throw it into the middle of the field off your back foot. But saying his “inexperienced receivers may have been the reason for them”? C’mon man. That’s ridiculous. And its stuff like that which fuels these absurd expectations on the guy.
It's really tough to pin an NFL loss on any one guy because each game has so many moving parts. But Cutler was the primary culprit last night. His awful interception set up Green Bay’s first touchdown. Another tough one (have to admit, was just an incredible play, but, again, he still threw the ball too low when he had a wide open Forte) took points off the board for us. And the fourth one - yes, FOUR - sealed the game when we still had a chance to tie this thing up in a little thing called “crunch time” - a place Cutler has been failing his entire college and pro career. Other things didn’t help – my head is still spinning from the fake punt – but in the end this game was obviously and clearly on Cutler’s shoulders. I don’t see how anyone can say any differently. Our defense played exceptional considering the amazing mismatch of our secondary against their wideouts. And the ‘D’ bailed Cutler out all night, only giving up one “real” touchdown – on the last drive – all night to an elite offense in what was another stellar effort from The Monsters. This one is on the QB.)
Can we win with Jay Cutler at quarterback? Absolutely. For one great season at some point? Definitely. Consistently for the long term? I, personally, don’t think so. But I’ve been wrong before. Can we win this year with Cutler? I think we’ll be in the mix for a playoff spot – our schedule sets up really nice in the middle and momentum changes everything – but I still think we’re the clear No. 3 team in our division and rarely does a division (especially a traditionally weak one like ours) lock up three playoff spots. But, again, we’ll be in that mix around 9-7, 8-8. And it is the NFL, where anything can happen (ask Kyle Orton this morning; gotta be happy for the guy.)
And maybe, like Collins, Cutler will eventually mature into the QB that he could be. (I just hope that, unlike Collins and the teams he’s run through, Cutler’s still with our team when that day comes.) Cutler has undeniable talent and with the same things that make NFL teams successful – great defense, good coaching, sound running game, solid special teams – he can 100 percent be a quarterback on a winning team. Like I said, this guy has skills that make him dangerous – for good or ill – and he is the type of guy that can go out and have a monster game to help us beat a team that maybe we’re not supposed to. I believe that. He has an excellent arm, he’s savvy with his pocket presence, and he’s a fierce competitor that doesn’t take any guff.
But since this is reality and not fantasy football we also have to call a spade a spade. A great arm isn’t worth much if you’re rifling the ball into the chest of opposing safeties. Having the physical abilities to escape a collapsing pocket is one thing, but having the mental capacity to make good, sound decisions once your out of there is something else. And being competitive is great, but wanting to win is not the same thing as making it happen.
Jay Cutler isn’t going to change. So our expectations need to. And I just think that they should be placed closer to something resembling reality instead of what we “wish” he was going to be. (And for god’s sakes quit listening to the bobbleheads on ESPN tell you how great Cutler is.) Jay Cutler is a guy with enormous physical gifts. But he also is a terrible decision maker and immature at this point in regards to handling a team and managing a game. He is erratic and inconsistent. And he may grow out of that (see: Collins, Kerry, who right now is as good as anyone in the league and getting it done with one of the weakest receiving corps in the NFL) or he may not (see: Grossman, Rex). But we need to either learn to live with that or move on.
Go Bears!!!
- Formerly Doc's Sports Predictions Guy, now BF_Phantom, always a Bears fan!
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I also wanted to say
That while I crack on the post with the game recap on this blog’s front page, I still want to say that you guys do an amazing job with the site and keep up the good work. Obviously I disagree with your assessment, but I just want to make sure it’s known that I appreciate the forum to say it and discuss with other fellow Bears fans.
I'm not a Bears Fan...
I’m a Vikings fan, and I want to write to give Cutler a little more credit than slightly above Grossman… You already had slightly above Grossman in Orton, hence him winning the starting job. Why would you mortgage the future of an aging team with obvious holes in it to get slightly above Grossman?? While I am still skeptical of Jay Cutler’s true potential, I do believe a few things to be true:
1) Trent Dilfer was correct in saying that cutler was not enough of an upgrade over Sage Rosenfels to pay that ransom to get him
2) Jay Cutler benefitted GREATLY from a lights out O-Line and quality receivers
3) Once Cutler gets popped in the mouth a few times and realizes what it’s like to play with a questionable offense, he starts getting reckless
4) Urlacher was right, he is a pu$$y… (sorry, had to say it)
The Bears now have a solid QB behind a weakish O-Line with a good RB and a tepid Receiving corps with a TE with a ton of upside. They also have an aging and injury-prone defense that, while still potentially good, is getting by on more than a little bit of their reputation with a suspect secondary, 2 LB’s out for an indefinite amount of time, and a DT that may not hold together (Tommy Harris)
I mean no disrespect (other than the pu$$y comment) but where are you going to get the pieces of the puzzle to fill the holes, both for this year and next??
You bring up great points
and we have not heard these before (sarcasm). I would worry about the 8 man fronts you face from NFL quality teams shortly (not the browns..). Favre does not look solid and real defenses await…
So they shouldn’t have to worry about Chicago then, right?
No, seriously though, Peterson faced 8-man fronts all last year against solid defenses and still lead the league in rushing. So I doubt they’re too worried. Maybe YOU should be more worried about your terrible O-line. Forte had a terrible night rushing the ball which added pressure onto Cutler to throw those picks. Why did he have a hard time rushing? Because the O-line gave up penetration constantly.
I am a Bears fan
And I agree on most of that.
Point 2 is freakin retarded.
Not only is Cutler>>>>>>>>>Rosenfels, he’s immeasurably more talented than he is. How’d you come up with those conclusions? By watching one game? Are you kidding me? Yeah’s he’s such a Pussy. You’re full of shit. He got beat up in the first half. He took hits and threw picks, and responded very, very well in the second half. Pussy my ass. Players on new teams have a feeling out process. No matter what happened in the pre-season, it takes some real-time action to learn what can be done with each player. Things are going to get better. The defense shut down a high-octane offense. Give me that defense week in week out and this team will win 11-12 games.
If you get that defense week in week out
you’ll run out of defensemen by week 6!!
Point 2 was in regard to his supporting cast in Denver…
I never said that Cutler wasn’t better than Rosenfels, just not enough better to justify the ransom that was paid to get him…
As far as the 8 man fronts; we saw them all year last year with worse QB and worse receivers, although I recognize that this is only week 1, we all recognized that the health of the starters is paramount, especially to GB and Chicago…
I did like watching your DE plant his foot between the shoulderblades of the Pack’s RT on his way to sacking ARod…
Whoops, honest mistake...
Upon clarification, that was Brandon Chillar planting on your RT… That was sweet…
You do realize that the only reason you kept the Pack in check was because recievers were having trouble catching the ball, right? If Jordy Nelson had hung on, it would’ve been a different ballgame. But, hey, if you want a defense that’s going to give up a 51-yard TD on 3rd and 1 late in the game, that’s fine with me. Should just make playing the Bears even easier.
You really want to play the if game?
If Chris Williams makes the block on Jolley, Forte walk into the endzone with a TD. If if if. It didn’t happen that way so it doesn’t matter. I don’t really think you should even be concerned about whats going on over here right now, we don’t play you anytime soon. You are mostly trying to get a rise out of us by saying little comments like this.
Should just make playing the Bears even easier.
Just so you know Favre is going to have do more than throw for 110 yards. You can say all you want about how good AP is but reality is your QB play is going to have to be better. And yes ours needs to be better as well.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 15, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Woulda, coulda, shoulda
That’s never an effective way to argue a point.
What if Knox kept going on his inside slant….TD maybe?
What if Clark didn’t break off his route right before Cutler threw the Int to Jolley? Which by the way was an incredible one-handed catch.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
The assassination aside,
Mary Todd Lincoln thought the play was rather pleasant
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 16, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
2) Jay Cutler benefitted GREATLY from a lights out O-Line and quality receivers
Uh, hard to think of a QB that wouldn’t.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
nice post
I disagree w/ Cutler being mediocre, I really do think he is a top 10 QB. Just think this is first game heebie-jeebies. I’m gonna wait at least a couple games before I make my decision on him. Plus, having to play a top secondary with all these other problems, think i’m giving him a mulligan on last night.
Collins? Grossman? Really?
First i would like to say it will take time to prove us wrong or right and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
That being said, cutlers in pocket mobility is what draws comparisons to the great ones. Montana, Brady, the Mannings all could extend plays. Grossman, Collins, Culpepper do not. Again im not talking about escaping the pocket but shuffling within it to buy one more crucial second then delivering.
Cutler reads defenses better than a mediocre Q.B. two of the interceptions was receiver related and one was just an awsome play by a great secondary in my opinion. To say cutler sucks when you have kyle orton as a Q.B. is retarded. I stick behind jay cutler because i liked him in the draft and throughout his whole career in denver and i am ecstatic to have him in a bears uniform.
So hoorah! After one game you bronco fans are right. Along with Ditka and Dungy but how about we wait at least to game 8 before you lable him a bust and troublemaker
I'm not
A Denver fan.
And I’m not basing my thoughts on Cutler on one game in Green Bay. I’ve seen enough to know what the kid is about.
As you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
One other thing: a lot of NFL rumors I have heard about Cutler is that he is actually terrible at reading defenses and adjusting to shifting game plans. He wants to just “go out and chuck it”. And that’s how he plays.
And, again, you’re really comparing Cutler to Montana, Brady and Manning. So maybe they have the same 40 time. I probably have the same 40 time as Peyton Manning. But does that make us similar? The most important thing about being a QB is judgment. That’s where Cutler fails.
Frankly, there’s nowhere for Cutler to go but up this season, and I’m fine with that. With Grossman, I think we just saw his potential every so often, but never truly delivered no matter how much time we gave him (and it was WAY too much). With Cutler, it’s just about getting acclimated to the WRs, having the O-line develop chemistry, etc.. It was a tough first game, but the whole offense is going to come out with a purpose in the coming weeks, and I know they’ll perform better.
Basically, he has the talent Grossman thought he had.
Agree
Really good point about Grossman. I 100 percent think Cutler is much better than The Sex Cannon.
After Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, et al, we were so desperate for anyone that can throw the ball more than 10 years down field that I think that’s why Grossman was given so much rope. (I will forever say that if we had played Brian Griese the second half of our Super Bowl season we would have won it all. But let’s not go there.)
Contradict much?
This is what you said originally in your post.
He is a lot closer to Rex Grossman
Now, this is what you responded with when dkguy55 posted his comment.
I 100 percent think Cutler is much better than The Sex Cannon.
Are you still on heavy doses of rum?
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
I read everything you posted
and I am a bit blurry on how you classify yourself in the middle category. Unless you are just trying to draw readership calling him a bust and saying that he can’t read defenses.
I don’t agree with you. You make some interesting points…but still you fall short.
I think the average Bear fan had a rude awakening last night, but realizes it’s only one game.
And I’m not a blind loyalist, just someone who realizes the offense was out of sync (especially the line). NO QB is going to be successful with NO time to throw. Once Cutler could stand in the pocket, he was a different QB, and I liked what I saw.
I’ll take that any day of the week over Orton and two wasted first round picks.
by BigAppleBearsFan on Sep 14, 2009 11:15 AM CDT reply actions
That's cool
I’m glad you think the way that you do. You seem to at least be open about it, which is good. And I’m not trying to “sensationalize” anything. This is more cathartic for me than it is an attempt to get eyes. I have my own websites. I don’t care about the readership here, you know. I have read and heard from people that Cutler is not good at reading schemes. Just passing on what I’ve heard.
And no way is he worth 2 No. 1’s and a No. 4, plus Orton. No way, no how. Not even close. And you can’t say that the No. 1’s didn’t matter because they would be “wasted” anyway. Good organizations don’t waste their top picks. Just because we do that doesn’t mean it’s OK to just give them away like loose change.
I am not a Cutler fan. But I’m not just going to kill the guy. I think he is completely overrated and overhyped by the media and by fans. But I also do at least recognize the skills. I’m not someone who is just going to kill him every time he does anything and then ignore those big games. Also, I guess I’m not in the middle but I want to be there because I WANT him to be good. But, again, after dealing with the Rex debacle and just watching as much football as I do and the way that I do I just have seen enough to know that I’m going to be kidding myself to think he’ll ever become a consistent dude.
tough one next week. Could sure use one of his “A” games, that’s for sure.
4 ints and an L?
The guy gives an honest, unbiased opinion but you aren’t “sure where he is coming from.” I guess you can only talk about rainbows and unicorns when talking either the Bears or their QB. I’ll tell you one thing, I bet Orton would rather be where he is opposed to where he was because of this:
“NO QB is going to be successful with NO time to throw.”
That will be the story all season. Jay is going to pay for that lackluster line. Thank god Orton has that “noodle arm” I’ve heard so much about. If he didn’t, he might end up making stupid decisions (because then he’ll have that cannon, right? Apparently the only thing you need to be a “franchise” QB..) and end up throwing like 4 picks. That would just be tragic.
Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
yawn…. have you said anything new yet??
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 14, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
???
I was talking to grind core.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 14, 2009 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree with you too...
I don’t think this line is lackluster, just adjusting to each other. Just like I think the WRs and Jay are going to have to adjust to each other.
I also think our offensive coordinator could castrate Montana, Elway and both Mannings with his horrific play calling.
No adjustments this game, Ron Turner nonsense.
By the way, I was talking about how the author classified himself originally-not even talking about Jay’s performance last night.
I am fairly realistic, I just think you wait more than a game or two to say your team and QB suck or are great.
Enjoy Orton! Even after 4 INTs, I still like the deal. I guess I should go back to my rainbows and unicorns.
by BigAppleBearsFan on Sep 14, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 14, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe you guys could make that the official avatar of WCG.
Seems to be fitting.
Take my advice, I'm not using it !!!
by grind_core on Sep 14, 2009 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
seems to be fitting you better instead pole grinding_core
or anything else you could play sit and spin on, you twinkletoes meatgazing booty bandit. congratulations on thoroughly embarrassing yourself with prepube observations and witty diatribes. your family must be so very proud. let’s see how the teams look halfway into the season as opposed to weak attempts for negative attention after one whole game. personally, i hope orton does very well as he is a good quarterback.
by reefermadness3 on Sep 15, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
sure, ouch, your observations are painful.
oh wait, no they aren’t, not at all. kind of like your stretched puckered dookiechute not being pained by any large foreign objects…i mean for christsakes man your fellow pals over at mhr say when you fart it sounds like a ceiling fan. not much you won’t do for some male attention huh big guy? butthurt much there meatgazer?
by reefermadness3 on Sep 15, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 15, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
between you and ditkavs you two crack me up with the pictures man.
by reefermadness3 on Sep 15, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
We are brothers from another mother.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 15, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn right we are.
too bad worked blocked the pic. That just means it’s really good.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 15, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I coded it that way!
So only you couldn’t see it! Muhahahaha!
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 15, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah but my home computer cracked your code.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 15, 2009 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
so's your face. :)
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 15, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
So's your face always makes sense!
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 16, 2009 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I knew you'd
appreciate that.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 16, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
WCG should adopt this logo!
It’s exactly what I think of everytime I come to check on Jay Cutler news!
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
by propheteer on Sep 15, 2009 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously dude
rainbows and unicorns when talking either the Bears or their QB
How many times are you going to use this term? What we’re sensitive to are people who make quick, knee-jerk reactions to one single game, contest, whatever you want to call it. One game is the smallest of all sample-sizes when talking about a NFL QB. Have we ever denied on a collective level that Jay doesn’t take uneeded chances? No. Again, he’s still very young, talented, and an intelligent player. Who’s to say he can’t turn into a top-10 or top-5 QB? Everything we say here, all the analysis everywhere on the web and on TV won’t make a difference in Jay’s ultimate future. He’ll decide, stop trying to decide for him.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Denver fan here attempting to not troll
A couple things I think:
1) True, for just one game, Cutler might only be in the middle of that pack as far as your quarterback goes. But if you got to choose the other team’s quarterback, there are only 5 or so other quarterbacks you would fear more. Cheering against you guys last night, I was worried the whole night (partly because your defense kept you in it, but also partly because even if you’re down by three scores, Cutler can get you back in it quickly) He is an explosive quarterback, you just have to get him exploding in the right direction.
Plus, football isn’t just one game, it’s an entire season, and the good will probably even out with the bad over the course of the season. Mind you, the playoffs are ‘just one game’, followed by one more ‘just one game’, etc. but Cutler can easily stay good for three or four games.
2) That leads me to my second point. Cutler will be an up and down quarterback for the rest of his career. The trick is to limit the downs to as short a time as possible, whether that is one play, or one series, or one quarter. I don’t think Cutler will get better at this by himself, he will need good coaching. I think Shanahan would’ve gotten him there eventually, I think McDaniels might have gotten him there (if they’d started getting along), but I’m not as sure that your coaches are up to the task. Only time will tell with this one, but if the coaches are just letting Cutler go out there and hoping his physical talent will make a play, I don’t see him becoming a great quarterback (a good one, sure, he already is, but not great)
3) I still believe you guys have a chance to do very good things this year. You probably won’t be going 13-3, but if you make the playoffs and Cutler gets on a hot streak, you guys could really do something. Think of the Cardinals last year, sure you don’t have a receiver like Fitzgerald, but Cutler good is better than Warner good. Or think of us last year during the regular season, where people were saying all year long, "we just need to get in the playoffs and we can beat anyone (though we can lose to anyone also…)
4) On an unrelated note, if you have a chance to pick up Bennett on your fantasy team, do so now. It appears as though Cutler has found his favorite receiver, so expect a lot of passes thrown his way. I would guess in the 100 catches, 1000 yards range, something like that. I wouldn’t be too optimistic on touchdowns, but solid yards and catches.
Thanks for the rational post
I take back what I said about Bronco fans in another post
by BigAppleBearsFan on Sep 14, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
As a fellow Broncos fan, I totally agree on point 1.
Actually,I would probably have him around 20 for my team (mainly because I hate watching a game while fearing an Int on every dropback); at the same time, he would be one of the last QBs I would want to go up against.
Basically I expect Cutler to throw an Int or a TD every time he drops back to pass. It’s not rational, but he has the ability to throw a terrible Int into quadruple coverage on one play, then a 70 yard bomb perfectly placed in between the saftey and corner on the next throw.
I’m glad he’s gone because I think we got a lot for him and also because I don’t like his personality and demeanor, but you guys have an incredible talent that could be great if he gets his head on straight
Go Nova
hate to say i told ya so
but, as a broncos fan who’s watched cutler since his debut in 2006 what you saw yesterday is what you’re getting – and i think this article is right on about JC. he’s not going to change, unless he does what Eli did and in his 5th year turns things around, but he’s just this way. good luck!
Please read my signature
I am about to go to MHR and tell them to lock the door
Denver is happy with the trade, great, God bless you and Kyle Orton. You told us Jay will suck, great thanks for the heads up. There are many Bears fans who are still happy to have Jay as our QB. Yes even after a 4 INT night with a loss.
by BigAppleBearsFan on Sep 15, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
BABF
Why does it have to be like that? Why can’t it be, Orton + Picks was great for Denver’s rebuild, and Cutler is the Gunslinging QB you always wanted but could never grasp?
The way I see it…..we came out the way we wanted so……no we aren’t saying Jay will suck. We are saying he has bad tendencies…..but you also say “Orton is a noodle arm” and you don’t see that as my sig…….mmmmmm ciiiggg……sorry…where was I? anyways if you don’t want us here, I’m sure we would be happy to oblige, but if we simply agree with an article your own fan wrote, and did not even say JAY SUCKS!!!!! but instead had rational points to make………….why is that a crime?
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
The poster of this fanpost has been on here before stirring up trouble..
for all I know his name is angry andy….post filled with biases and i told you so’s after one game. Come back in a few weeks and we can go back over it..
Actually,
I have been in here for a couple months as a “registered” user and frequenter. As long as this site has been up I’ve stopped in to see what’s going on but have never contributed.
Also, if you click the link that I added you’ll see that my predictions about Cutler were made A MONTH ago. http://www.docsports.com/2009/jay-cutler-bust-065.html
Ah
You stink, therefore I am?
I like Jay, and wish the Bears the best with him. The problems with Pace and Omiyale aren’t going to go away, but hopefully they can be minimized. Hester and Bennett will benefit from the addition of Cutler.
As some have said, he’ll win you some games that you might not have otherwise, and he’ll lose you some games that you might not have. The biggest concern with Jay was that if he gets off to a bad start, it’s hard for him to avoid continuing down that path. He hasn’t found the maturity, yet. When he’s on a roll, he’s very good
All the best to him – and the Bears
Hillis/Moreno in '09
sorry Bear
i was commenting about Phantom who claims to have never posted here before (which was not true). He showed and started some crap with posters trying to instigate things..
I'm sorry
When did I say I never posted here before? I PUT IN THE POST THAT I WAS FORMERLY “DOC’S SPORTS PREDICTIONS GUY”.
Are you just a moron or do you have an issue?
You said you have never contributed
how would you perceive that? And you were an instigator as Docs sports prediction guy..
Beekman will hopefully start
I believe Frank suffered an injury on Sunday.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
The reality is that Jay Cutler is a mediocre NFL quarterback.
Medicore QBs don’t complete over 62% of their passes over their career… and have career QB ratings over 87.0.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
sure thing buddy
He must be your fantasy football quarterback or something.
Football isn’t all about numbers.
And FF isn't about %'s.
And I don’t even play fantasy football.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 15, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
You all of course realize
that until next week, all we’re gonna hear and get, is non stop comparison’s to Grossman,
about the draft picks Denver’s going to get, how we got screwed, yada, yada, yada… which is why i will just quietly pray, Cutler plays lights out at Home next week. and then i can hear all the excuses about how Polamalu is the missing link in the steel curtain, or, if it wasn’t for such and such blown coverage, cutler doesnt make that throw… whatever, hypocrites.
Cutler is exactly what this team needs. a good player, a winner’s mentality, and he has an attitude.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 14, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions
And if
He throws 3 more INTs? Let’s just wait and see what happens, for good or ill.
slightly above Grossman expectations?
Pretty hard to take that seriously.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Did you
Not watch the game last night? 4 INTs that cost us points and eventually the game. He had 4 but easily could have had 6. And most of his throws weren’t even close all night. However, he had one shining moment on that drive in the third quarter and showed just enough of a glimpse of talent for Bears fans to cling to that but ignore Reality.
That doesn’t sound like the Grossman Era? Really?
WOW BF_PHANTOM
I really like this website till you posted on it take this negativity somewhere else and when cutler starts winning the game for us you are welcome to join the cutler fan club.
Negativity
I thought it was just a reality check. And, like I said, no one wants me to be wrong more than me. I would love it if Cutler could help us regain the glory. I have been a Bears fan for about a quarter-century. Love this franchise and want nothing more than some fun winning seasons. But because I love my team I’m going to call it like I see it and criticize what I see.
Broncos Fan to BF_Phantom
I thought you did a fair evaluation. Would you post something on the Broncos over at MHR? Thanks in advance.
You can
e-mail Doc’s Sports (service@docsports.com) with a header “Guest Blog Request For Robert Ferringo” and I will respond to that. (I don’t want to give out my direct e-mail in this space.)
I have to say though, you probably are not going to want to hear a lot of what I have to say about the Broncos! Of all the tape I broke down today the Broncos might have been the worst team that I saw this weekend. I still have no idea how they won. Oh, yeah, they were playing the Bungles!
Like I said, e-mail me and we can see about setting something up.
Alright!
The WCG’er that emailed him needs to ’fess up, right now! ;)
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 15, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn
So what your saying is chicago gave up 2 1st round picks and a 3rd for an average qb that blows. But your right he is only an average qb and thats all hell ever be. He sure can throw it hard though. Lol.
ROFL
wow….still can’t believe he said that…….
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Me neither
I was annoyed when he uttered those words, and thought to myself “why would it matter if he has a stronger arm than Elway?” I suppose someday he’ll grow up and realize he isn’t the greatest gift to mankind.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
The reality is that........
You got a big mouth, big ego, big crybaby QB who only cares about himself and who most players on the bears probably cant stand to be around. If orton started for you guys last night, you would be 1-0.
The Villyn
One thing you need to stop and think about.
If Cutler was still your QB, you would think he was the best thing since the invention of the wheel. The only reason you are bitter is because Cutler is no longer your guy. If you want to be pissed at someone, take a look at your new coach.
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Sep 14, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
So you put no blame on your new coach?
If he was still with the Bronco’s you would feel the same way about Cutler?
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Sep 14, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeppers, I sure would
After all, he needed one win in 2007 vs SF and blew it in “crunch time”.
In 2008 he only had to win one game out of three and had it done vs Buffalo and blew it also.
He will throw it up rather than get sacked. He locks on to one receiver and tries to force it into double and triple coverage. He audibles from a running play to a deep pass too often.
Look at the game last night again. He looked good until GB started getting to him and then….well, you all know.
If you need more proof, look at the pre season game against Denver. When Denver kept pinning you against your own end zone, any GOOD defense would have had a safety. He was flustered and PO’d at his line and receivers. He audibled an obvious run play to a pass play and almost took a safety. That is Cutler, in a nut shell.
But then, you will find that out next week, again. You think maybe the Blitz will be used a lot against your line?
Why doesn’t someone here interview Desmond Clark? He played with the SB teams of Denver WITH Elway. Ask him if Elway acted like Jay after a receiver dropped a pass. Ask him if Elway sat alone, sulked, refused to look at the series pics and prepare for the next series. If any one can tell you, it’s him. He was there. He saw it all, he played in the SB with Elway. Is Cutler picking his brain for help? He is your most experienced receiver and has the most experience in big games.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
by IgorBStrange on Sep 15, 2009 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions
To IgorBstrange ... To the Villyn
Elway never sulked ? How old are you ? He bawled his way out of Baltimore before playing a down
To the Villyn … a week ago … we WERE going to the Super Bowl ….
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 15, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s funny to hear Broncos fans whine about Cutler being a crybaby over five months after he dumped you.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
I have never said that but
I do feel we have a great shot at the playoffs, even after last nights game. Hell, I like Orton. I just dont think he will be Denver’s solution.
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Sep 14, 2009 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Which
is great….because we don’t need HIM to be the solution. I feel our solution is in the defense playing as well as we’ve seen or better, and in Moreno, and PHonz proving they were worth everything.
I think Brandstater is our solution at this point, and Orton is a Serviceable QB who won’t throw too many picks. and I appreciate your candid response. :)
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Yeah, I remember thinking this way too...
Where every QB behind our starter was the answer. And our defense and running game was enough to win us championships.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 18, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
To clarify.....
I did not say Orton was the answer……at all. That was not my implication…..I said Moreno, and Phonz accompanied by Dawk, Baily, Goodman, Doom, Buck……etc……are the answers…..
I just think a serviceable QB aka Orton is good enough for now. and Brandstater will probably be our future QB and the kid looks good enough to be elite someday…..(that was not a prediction just a mild observation)
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
Villyn
No need to be a dick. You’re not a Bears fan so this has nothing to do with you. How about you get the hell out.
Like I said, your team is pathetic. I mean, just awful. We owned you in the preseason and if we played you right now we would beat you by 2 touchdowns. You are a fan of a 4- or 5-win team so why don’t you worry about your own problems.
yeah
You guys have your own site. If you want to come in here and chime in, that’s cool. Free country. But he’s simply trying to instigate. Just like that Vikings fan earlier in the comments. That’s just unnecessary.
And – like my critique of Cutler – my statements about the Broncos are based in fact and reality. Denver sucks. They are one of the five or six worst teams in the NFL right now. So to come in here and give us shit about our team is ridiculous. That would be like some Lions fan coming in here and mocking Cutler.
this one's odd...
my statements about the Broncos are based in fact and reality. Denver sucks.
That sir, is not a fact OR reality, that’s an opinion.
"FLAG! Fail on the field. Re-do." -Disco_Stu
Seriously...
I am SO SICK of people judging a season by ONE EFFING GAME.
All this knee jerk reaction crap only puts out a bad vibe.
These hater Bronco trollers are only upset they got a downgrade in KO. And without that pass being tipped yesterday, it would be a loss to the CINCINNATTI KITTENS!
A long season awaits you. The truth is that you can’t win with Kyle. You won’t ein with Kyle, but we will win with Jay.
Follow him on twitter and see if any of his teammates like him. They hang out all the time together.
Dont talk about things you dont know anything about. It just makes you look ignorant.
agreed
Hear about the blind hooker, you gotta hand it to her.
Rex Grossman has to be a test-tube baby, cause he's not worth a f---!!!
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Sep 14, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
The truth is that you can’t win with Kyle.
Not in the way that they would have done with Cutler, but that seems a harsh assessment. We weren’t exactly calling for his head the way he was playing pre-injury last season.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
I thought
Orton was really, really good for the most part last year. No, he’s not sexy. He’s not flashy. But all the guy did was make good decisions, manage the game and, oh yeah, WIN!
Had Orton played against Tennessee we would have beaten them by double digits. And if Lovie hadn’t done that damn pooch kick we win that game as well. Ugh. Not that I’m still bitter about last year or anything.
I only meant the Broncos won't win with KO
I never said we didnt win with him. It doesnt seem like the Donkeys have faith in Kyle, unlike the way the Bears did have faith in him.
Aren't you doing the same thing by unfairly bashing Orton?
We all know Cutler has better physical skills but saying “you can’t win with Kyle” is completely inaccurate. He does have a winning record as a NFL starter and Cutler does not. Don’t give me the usual crap about the defenses on both teams and the running games, etc. the fact is, Orton had a winning record as a collegian and as a pro. Cutler does not have a winning record in either. Anyone who has read any of my posts knows that I am happy Cutler is here and I’m not saying Orton is the superior QB, but you are taking it so far to the other extreme that it’s ridiculous.
Ultimately, any QB is going to be judged by his W/L record. Cutler can have all the passing records he wants, but if we are sitting home for the next couple of Januarys, then it was a bad trade, plain and simple. I honestly don’t believe that will happen, but time is the only thing that will really tell.
So just enjoy what you have here and stop getting involved in all the useless nonsense of “Kyle vs. Jay”, it doesn’t matter.
SOLID POST
Ultimately, any QB is going to be judged by his W/L record. Cutler can have all the passing records he wants, but if we are sitting home for the next couple of Januarys, then it was a bad trade, plain and simple. I honestly don’t believe that will happen, but time is the only thing that will really tell.
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal
I suggested in one of the poll threads that some Bear fans here were getting overly sensitive… but I hadn’t read this thread yet. I also read that a Mod was about to pull out his hammer and I thought to myself that he was being a little hasty, but I hadn’t read this thread yet.
That is all.
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok.
Shaquille O'Neal
It's been like this for months now.
One post after another. It just gets tiring.
- Smudgers
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Sep 15, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Be real
Cutler likes to compare himself to Elway. By his 4th season Elway was a leader on the field. He was getting Denver into the Playoffs and leading an overmatched team to Super Bowls in the 1980’s. Cutler is not.
He needed to win one game in 2007 to get Denver into the Playoffs, against San Francisco and blew it in “crunch time” with a turnover. Same last season. He had to lead the team to ONE win in three games. Did he? Nope.
Cutler hates to be sacked, and will throw it up instead. Look at the game from last night again. I believe it is interception #3, rather than take the sack or throw it away, he fires it up for grabs.
One last thing here. Last year in the opener for Denver vs Oakland, Cutler has Nate Jackson drop a pass. He is seen on National TV screaming at Jackson, then sits alone on the side lines. Does not look at the pics of the series or talk to his offense, just sits there.
This years Denver opening game vs Cincinnati. Stokely drops an Orton pass. Orton goes up to him and says “You’ll have more chances, don’t worry about it”. Orton goes to the sidelines, talks to the offense and checks the series pics, preparing for his next chance at the Bengals.
Now look at Sundays game again, look at Cutler on the sideline between series.
Cutler has all the tools, just not able to use them properly and has no interest in learning how to use them properly.
Make those miracles happen - Jon Keyworth
Cutler hates to be sacked
Name one QB who likes to be sacked.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
Ditkavs...
with the backhand clipboard delivery to Igor’s face and the crowd roars! Liked it almost as much as I liked watching Rodgers up close and personal sniffing of the turf in his own endzone sunday night !
"They better get another quarterback cuz we're comin"-#58 Wilber Marshall LB Chicago Bears
Thank you, no applause necessary
just doing my job.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 15, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
well played
i’m ready for next sunday now thank you.
nice sig beardown34 didn’t notice that before
by reefermadness3 on Sep 15, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks reefer
and me too, bring on the Steelers!
"They better get another quarterback cuz we're comin"-#58 Wilber Marshall LB Chicago Bears
You might be on to something.
I cut the sleeves off because it looks awesome. NOW GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 15, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
jonathan quinn also
liked to get ramrodded by opposing linemen
clear memories of him standing there like a statue in the pocket waiting to get toppled over. for a big guy he sure was easy to run over.
wonder what that scrub is doin these days? if i had to guess it would be high school football coach, hopefully he isn’t teaching the qb’s though.
by reefermadness3 on Sep 15, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
this place is intolerable...
with all the broncos trolls. mods need to get some balls and ban them all.
Amen
Trolls are just about the lowest form on online life. If the mods cannot or will not do anything, the Bears fans need to ignore the trolls.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 15, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
From the article linked in this post
Cutler falls into a similar situation to why I knew that Culpepper wasn’t anywhere near as good as his numbers suggested. Both Cutler and Culpepper were blessed with exceptional skill players and a system that virtually guaranteed him putting up numbers. With weapons like Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokely and Tony Scheffler, along with a sturdy offensive line, the Broncos were going to score points and move the ball almost regardless of who was under center. It just happened to be Cutler. And while he did have a very good season, statistically, that doesn’t mean that he is destined to be a good quarterback.
In response to that opinion, Cutler took a rookie WR, Eddie Royal, and got him to catch over 90 passes last year. Brandon Marshall seems to get a lot of hype, as a result of catching over 100 passes from Cutler in each of the last two seasons. But I argue against him being a top WR. He was targeted an astounding 181 times last year (most in the NFL), however he only caught 57% of the targets. In comparison, Andre Johnson was targeted 171 times, but he caught 67% of the passes. The folks at Football Outsiders have concluded that both Marshall and Royal have a negative value over the average replacement… meaning, they are average WRs.
In college, Cutler wasn’t blessed with any exceptional talent at Vanderbilt, yet he was voted SEC Offensive Player of the Year in 2005… from a school who’s only had 4 offensive players drafted by the NFL in the last decade (T Chris Williams, WR Earl Bennett, QB Jay Cutler, and G Justin Geisinger). He nearly upset Urban Meyer’s Gators in Gainesville, losing 49-42 in double overtime. And to quote John Lynch, a guy who knows a thing or two about football,
“If this guy can take a bunch of future doctors and lawyers and have them competing against the Florida Gators, this guy is a stud.”
If you want to make a cake without any flour, Cutler’s your QB. He hasn’t had much to work with in the past, yet he continues to rack up passing yards at a high completion %. Give him a defense, and you’ll win more games than you lose. Give him a real top WR, and special things could happen.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Sep 15, 2009 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Not sure if I agree yet, but I like the positive spin.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I respectfully disagree
And the guys at Football Outsiders are really overrated. Their predictions models are pretty bad. They do know their stuff, but football isn’t baseball. What I mean by that, is that MLB is almost like computer code. There are just so many numbers that govern the system of baseball. Football isn’t like that. Football is more like basketball. There are a lot of stats, but it’s a momentum sport and it’s a sport that’s much less of a slave to the numbers than MLB is. Especially considering the raw physicality at stake here. I could go on about this for days, but I’ll spare you.
So take anything from FO with a grain of salt. I mean, the idea that Eddie Royal is an average wideout is a joke. You telling me he wouldn’t instantly be the best receiver on our team? And Louis Murphy (Oakland) may have had a better game than Brandon Marshall this weekend. But if you were building a team who would you want? Does the receiver percentage weight at all the length of the passes? Houston’s offense throws a ton of outs, hooks, and short passes. Denver threw the ball down the field a bunch last year.
Again, I could go on. But the bottom line is that you like Cutler and think that we made a great trade to get him. I don’t like Cutler and I think that the trade to get him was a colossal mistake. That’s it. Don’t see you changing any time soon and I won’t change any time soon. Especially with mounting evidence.
Cutler is not a mediocre QB
The reality is that Jay Cutler is a mediocre NFL quarterback. And by that I mean that if I were doing rankings he’s probably around No. 14 to No. 16. I’m not talking about "potential", which can be fickle, and long-term returns, which are unpredictable. I’m talking about one game, playing for your soul, and you need a quarterback, Jay Cutler would probably be about the 15th name that I call.
I respect your opinion, and maybe no one would call on Cutler to win the big game right now. He hasn’t played in the playoffs, he hasn’t been given the chance to play in the big game unlike Manning, Brady, or Big Ben. Give him a chance to play in the playoffs before deciding he would be the 15th name to call to win a game for you. But, in all honesty, I’d like to see the 14 QBs you’d have over Cutler.
I do respect your opinion, but for some reason I can’t help but feel you overlooked the fact he’s only 26 and this is just his third year starting in the league.
And, Eddie Royal may now be considered one of the better receivers, but it was Cutler that turned a 2nd and 4th round pick into 90+ catch wideouts.
I think we won’t really know the reality and what to expect from Jay for this year and the next 5-10 years until we’re far past the halfway point this season.
You lack the ability to perceive correctly ...
The reality is that Jay Cutler is a mediocre NFL quarterback.
Absolute, unmitigated bullshit. To say that Cutler is a mediocre QB is to demonstrate a total inability to perceive what you are watching. Either that or you read articles written by other idiots and then you just frame that in your own words, not actually thinking and perceiving for yourself. That’s both boring and pointless.
When his previous defense held opponents to 21 points or less he was 13-1 as a starter. That is clearly not mediocre. Then again, they had an O-line. He threw for 4,500 yards last year – also not mediocre. Ben Worthlessberger is a mediocre NFL quarterback. Nobody talks about that because the fat, inaccurate QB has two rings and the best defense in the NFL keeping opposition to low, low scores.
Jay Cutler, statistically, is on par and on course to be there with the all-time greats. To the human eye, he has great pocket awareness, quick feet, text-book mechanics (he threw perfect passes on Sunday when given just a couple of seconds to set), the necessary swagger and balls to lead, he has every throw in the book and the strongest arm in the league. Not to mention his ability to throw accurately on the run and extend plays.
His receivers made some bad decisions on their route when the plays broke down. Cutler made some bad decisions too, just like Brady/Manning do. No QB in the league could have coped with the combination of pass rushing/blitzes and absolute lack of protection – not without a switched on TE running into the vacant spots/holes in the coverage to help out. Greg Olsen is blonde and hears footsteps. Clarke was pulling out of routes. Knox ditto – he has not developed football smarts yet. Cutler knew he had to make something happen – his line was porous and could neither run block nor protect. He knew he had to beat Green Bay -because that’s more important to Lovie than winning the Super Bowl by his own admission. Cutler was not only hounded by the onslaught of a fearsome defense, but by the bullshit play-calling of surely the worst co-ordinator in the league. We punt the ball like a normal team on 4th and 11 deep in our own half and we’re not having this conversation. Any two of the multipleof balls dropped by his receivers gets caught and we’re not having this conversation. Dez Clarke doesn’t give up on his corner route and we’re not having this conversation. If Greg Olsen blocks out the footsteps and we’re not having this conversation. If his OL didn’t do their best impression of revolving doors and we’re not having this conversation. The guy who doesn’t know what he’s looking at says “Gee, the QB threw 4 picks, he sucks balls.” Nope, he doesn’t, he’s a great QB. Add a poor OL and weak receivers (except Hester) and a piss-poor co-ordinator and then you begin to get the idea.
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 15, 2009 11:27 PM CDT reply actions
this is the stuff
that I’m talking about. You, sir, are the reason we’re in this mess in the first place. Keep thinking that Cutler is headed to be an “all-time great”. Go ahead. Keep blaming everyone else. Good stuff. And I’M THE ONE who is “not actually thinking and perceiving” for myself? Really? The TWO articles I’ve written on the subject really weren’t MY words and thoughts? Really? Well, can I get my money back.
It’s people like you that get me paid every weekend.
do us a favor
and make this your last article.
Eat crow ....
In spite of Ron Turner’s continued abysmal play calling, poor protection and constant pressure from the best defense in the NFL … will you now accept that you cannot evaluate talent at the quarterback position please ?
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 21, 2009 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions
To Bronco fans ...
Orton threw what should have been an interception it was such a bad pass, a tipped ball and you barely beat one of the three or four worst teams in the league. Orton threw one pass over thirty yards last year, Cutler threw two on Sunday. Good luck with that. If Orton can float thirty more wobblers that get tipped to a team-mate and go the distance, you might make the playoffs.
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 15, 2009 11:33 PM CDT reply actions
And thank you for the ReCap
As an Irishman myself…..by blood not birth……I would willing share a bottle of Jameson with you any day……..but however you look at it……If Orton throws one completed INT we lose…..can we agree with that?
If he throws JUST ONE.
Go back and look at that last throw…..it was never going to be in INT. It was a well placed pass given the situation…..though I can’t watch the rest of the field to see if there was a better option. The DB had to Jump and Stretch just to get his fingers on the ball.
So yes….we got lucky. Yes Orton is no Cutler…..but that is both bad AND good for us. and a 30 yard pass does not a good QB make. nor a good game. simply A good pass.
but I digress……Good luck, I think Cutler will do great things for you guys, and some horrible things. But we are in the same boat so that is not a cheap shot.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison
"Success is not a place at which one arrives, but rather... the spirit with which one undertakes and continues the journey."
- Alex Noble
More reality for the ill-perceiving ...
Jay Cutler had a QB rating of 153 in the 3rd quarter. Bad QBs never get QB ratings like that, they’re not capable of doing so. Green Bay’s defense just might be that damn good to mess with him as much as they did in the first half.
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 15, 2009 11:38 PM CDT reply actions
You should have moved on before you posted in the first place
This conversation is beat. Let’s move on to something else, shall we?
Of course we shall….because YOU have already proved YOUR point entirely to YOUR satisfaction, regardless if anyone else thinks your anything more than a nut on the quad with a megaphone calling all of us sinners. And that’s all you wanted in the first place.
You posted this not to have a conversation, but to throw your opinions in everyone else’s face, and then call us ‘high’ when we don’t agree with you. You regurgitated other people’s sparse and shoddy statistical analysis in order to PROVE your point to everyone else in absence of any real discussion. Now you’re free to move on to some other subject where you are equally erudite, so you can show the rest of us unwashed, uneducated masses what we should REALLY think.
by BullsFanInSeattle on Sep 17, 2009 5:55 AM CDT reply actions
For low life fans from the Mile High City
Having seen Cutler play a real NFL game and suck there is still no way I would rather have Kyle Orton than Cutler. I Honestly thought after Orton’s left handed interception in the pre-season that the debate over whether or not the Bears are better or worse with Cutler or Orton was dead. That left handed pass into the endzone was the worst play I have seen for awhile and it was made by your new starting QB (no longer Elway, no longer Cutler, but Kyle Orton), so telling me how Cutler sucks just stupid.
The notion that a Bears fan should be in shock or scared because a quarterback had a bad game is laughable. While bad for Cutler, Sunday night’s performance was par for the course for Chicago quarterbacks, it can only get better. It is not like he is the first good QB since Elway and up to Elway standards… he just has to surpass Grossman and Orton’s performance which i am confident he can do even in light on his 4 INT performance.
While Cutler comes with ups and downs Orton simply brings nothing to very little to the table. I understand the bitterness of Broncos fans, but we played u preseason and won. we have terrible and cheap ownership but were able to get your first star player since Elway for a guy who couldn’t beat out grossman for a long time and garbage picks. You have sour grapes and are intent on trying to make us feel the same, but the situations are different, we have a great team playing poorly while the broncos are a bad team that will continue to suck … so with no light at the end of the tunnel for your team, you come here to try to rain on our parade.
damn
tell us how you really feel.
can we also point out another gem (see TD by Orton, miffed ball spike) ?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 18, 2009 5:43 AM CDT up reply actions
A couple points on Cutler
- He was no doubt in a more sophisticated passing offense with Denver so I don’t think anyone should expect him to pass for 4,000+ yards. If he does that the Bears are probably going 7-9 or 8-8. Furthermore I find it alarming that the coaching staff of a QB who tries to extend plays with his feet had not set up “scramble rules” for the receivers. That’s a huge indictment on both Ron Turner and Lovie.
- His physical talent (i.e. arm strength, footwork, pocket presence) is up there with any QB in the league.
- His mental capacity and judgement are question marks at this point, but I will point out that his INT % went down in each of his 3 years with Denver as did his sack% and his yards per game went up in each of his 3 years. His QB rating and completion % and TD% and yard per attempt were roughly the same. That shows a QB who is improving and a coaching staff who gave him more attempts as he improved.
- Now he switches to a new offense with new receivers and opens up against a defense that this coaching staff did not appear to know how to attack (we know Turner’s lack of success against the 3-4). The results were disasterous for the first half, but once again Cutler showed the ability to adjust and improve. The last INT was a pass he needs to learn from. A timing route to a rookie that didn’t get his head turned around. Brandon Marshall makes that play or doesn’t allow the INT 19 out of 20 times. Knox? Not so much.
He has all the physical tools and has shown that he improves as he understands the offense. He’s also 26. My biggest concern is that this offense does not take advantage of his skills. The number of good young players (Cutler, Olsen, Forte, Hester, Knox, Bennett) at skill positions on offense demands an innovative offensive mind.
There’s a 2 time Super Bowl coach out of work in Denver waiting for a call.
Cutler
I’ve hated Bronco week the last few years and the reason was Jay Cutler, thier QB. He will settle down by the middle of the season and be an Elite QB. He was well on his way. Shanahan just tryied to make him Elway right off the flip.
When did Denver ever have trouble running the ball no matter who was in thier backfield. Shanahan put to much on his shoulders early. The truth plain and simple. Why he was the reason.
- He loves playing football.
- His arm is amazing when he sets up with proper michanics.
- Has excellent field vision
- Gets very excited witch can go both ways sometimes good sometimes bad.
- Has the ability to throw on the run.
What happend last weak. #4 He was trying to make plays and doing everything a incling to fast. He is where he wants to be playing football and very excited to be a Bear. He is a good QB and will settle down if the media lets him and the fans stay behind him.
I bleed CHIEFS and am glad he is gone, but at this point I wish we had Cutler. I’ll se what Cassel can do.?
Worst Trade Ever
I am one of the minority here in Chicago that was not happy to see this go down. I have been saying for quite some time…middle of last season that the Bears needed to focus on their O line and get some talent at wide out….there was nothing wrong with Orton. Those draft picks and money could have better spent on the O line and wide out. We have some rookies that will do well, but then we add geriatric former probowler “orlando pace”??? We put our newly aquired “pro bowl” qb, that was supposed to be our saviour behind this O line and he throws a career high four picks, and could not even get the damn ball to Olsen! I was disgusted. I would have liked nothing more than to leave angelo and smith up in Green bay, trading them for a ham and cheeze samich! And apparently I am not the only one who sees this all!
by sportbluecanyon on Sep 19, 2009 12:56 AM CDT reply actions
I'm glad you aren't on the Bear's staff. ....
Olsen couldn’t catch the ball against GB because he was hearing footsteps. Cutler put the ball there for him 6 or 7 times and blondie came up with one catch – that’s not Cutler’s fault. What have you got to ssay about his dissection of the best defense in the NFL in spite of persistent pressure and poor protection and the worst receiving corps in the NFL. Or are the Steelers suddenly not the best defense in the NFL now and we suddenly have great receivers ? Another blind-doesn’t-know-what-’they’re-’watching fan ….
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 21, 2009 3:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Nothing wrong with Orton ?
Please. Then why did he have ONE pass for 30+ yards last year ? Cutler had two in the first game. Do you watch football ?
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 21, 2009 3:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Come back at season's end and see how your prediction holds up
Replacing a small talent like Orton with a guy with so much upside like CVutler makes your team better, even if you still have problems elsewhere. Your comments that the Bears could have done better with the O-line and WRs, how about detailing how exactly instead of just passing off vague generalities.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 19, 2009 11:28 AM CDT reply actions
How stupid and blind are all you Cutler haters now ?
Marshall and Royal are doing nothing in Denver. Coincidence ? They’re all D and run blocking in Denver. Good for them good for Kyle. Happy for the Broncos. But without Cutler the Bears are 0-3 and bottom of the pile on every list there is. If there is one, God bless the coming of Jay Cutler and hopefully the naysayers will just blog off now ….
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 28, 2009 3:47 AM CDT reply actions
Hey Phantom !!
Yeah, you ! Let’s hear you now, boy !
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 29, 2009 3:48 AM CDT reply actions
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