Nathan Vasher's Job Officially in Flux

by Adam T on Sep 17, 2009 9:42 AM CDT

We've been talking about it for years now. We need to replace Nathan Vasher as our #2 corner back, but the Bears never acted on it. We thought in the beginning of the off-season that this would be the year, with Corey Graham showing some good skills last year. Due to concerns elsewhere, he was moved to safety, only to see him come back to corner too late to make a move to dethrone Vasher. Then Zackary Bowman stepped up and seemed a likely candidate until he got hurt.

In week one versus the Packers, the Bears ran Vasher, Tillman and Bowman in and out with Tillman and Vasher getting the bulk of the reps. Vasher will still see plenty of time, but the Bears have announced that Bowman will start next week against the Steelers....kind of. The announcement isn't official, but Bowman has been practicing with the first team offense.

With Trumaine McBride out, the Bears cannot shed Vasher yet, but if we can get him covering a third string receiver and not the most dangerous man on the field, perhaps we can avoid these last-second bombs that seem to often beat us.

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Comments

aren't the safeties

responsible for the deep zone?

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions

Yes. That's whay Lovie threw an "un-named" player under the bus for the Jennings TD.

During the press conference.

Said un-named player is Kevin Payne, for not being where he was supposed to be.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Payne

That’s why he ultimately belongs at SS, but since AA is there he may be relegated to backup whenever we get a “real” FS.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions

D Manning would've probably made the same mistake.

I’m amazed at:

1. The great importance of the safety position for a Cover 2 team, and
2. How Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo couldn’t find a safety to save their lives.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions

Who were the inactives for last week's game?

What happened to Josh Bullocks? Wasn’t he the “acquisition” we made at the safety position last offseason?

by BearFan611 on Sep 17, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions

He's another

SS type that tried his hand at FS and failed like so many before him.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions

They've never drafted one high enough

and refuse to sign one via free-agency.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

what's the difference between SS and FS

in the cover two, other than what side of the field they are on.

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions

the Bears weren't in the Cover 2 on that play

and yes in a cover 2 each safety has a deep half, it makes no difference which side

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 17, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions

serious question

how do you know what defense they were in (and what was it)? TV shows such a limited view of the field. Was there a blitz?

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions

Replay

If you saw it, you would’ve noticed that it AA was brought down in the box as the eighth defender. It was 3rd and 1, so it makes sense to try and stop it with AA. The problem is, the Bears don’t have a “true” FS who has the instincts, athletic ability, range, and ball-skills necessary to hold that position down.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions

To add

D. Manning has all of those attributes to be a good FS, but he has a problem diagnosing plays or reading the QB on ball fakes, double-moves, and misdirection plays.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions

So... he doesn't have the instincts. The first trait you listed

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions

could he be a corner?

gotta be faster/quicker than vasher.

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions

OK

gotcha. great call by the packers. wish we could run the ball well enough to scare somebody.

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions

And

wish Payne had actually realized his job was to not let Jennings beat him deep, instead he was peaking into the backfield…again.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, I’m guessing his first instinct (as a natural SS, or at least that’s where he’s played more) is to look to come up in run support.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy

by Spongie on Sep 17, 2009 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not sure but it

kinda looked like a cover-1 option, more in the box, hoping to stuff the play and jam the receivers in a man option, with the safety looming over the top. and Payne misdiagnosed the play, as did the play call as well, judging by having AA down in the box.
maybe we were reading up the gut, to get the FG range for the lead??

i’ll have to look when i get home

"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler

by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions

they weren't in a Cover 2 because the SS was up defending the run

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 17, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Wasn't it Afalavas' side of the field that Vasher got smoked on?

I’m not sure if it was him or Payne that was supposed to provide the deep help, I just know that they made a big deal about Afalava biting on the play-fake.

Anyway, they need to keep Vasher off the field if at all possible and try to pick up another cover corner in next year’s draft – so they can release him. He’s just too big of a liability in pass coverage.

by JimmyMack on Sep 17, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions

I thought Lovie

came right out and said Afalava was right where he was supposed to be?

"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler

by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions

That's my take

When you look at the tape it appears clear to me that AA was supposed to be in run support, with Payne in the middle of the field covering deep. But for some reason Payne was cheating over to the Tillman/Driver side of the field, so he had a really long run over to Jennings when the play developed. The crazy thing is that if you’re going to cheat, why not cheat to where their best receiver and our worst corner are stacked up? Vasher was on an island.

by Shuffle85 on Sep 17, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Thats what i was thinking

why on Earth would you
A. have TIllman on Driver for that play
B. support our best Corner when you know Vasher runs around like he has cement blocks on his feet

"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler

by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions

The CB rotation is likely being used because Tillman and Bowman aren't in game shape.

You do a lot of running in pass coverage. And those two missed a lot of time in August.

Once Bowman and Tillman get in full game shape… I expect Vasher to ride pine.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 9:58 AM CDT reply actions

I read that Bowman

had less that 10 defensive snaps… kid needs to play!

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Sep 17, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions

They're really bringing him along slowly

He/we need the reps – especially (as we saw) with the game on the line. But, probably because of the injury history, they want to make sure that he’s ready to play when they leave him in there.

by JimmyMack on Sep 17, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Thank goodness

It’s about time, and I’m glad that he won’t be lining up against Santonio on Sunday.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:05 AM CDT reply actions

JA and Lovie DID find a safety

..and they cut him and let him go to the Panthers. Idiots.

by Waylon on Sep 17, 2009 10:15 AM CDT reply actions

Traded him

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Sep 17, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Hopefully Bowman stays healthy

And this stuff doesn’t come up again. Also hopefully Graham can start to contribute again, he was a good corner.

by Sam Householder on Sep 17, 2009 10:37 AM CDT reply actions

I gotta admit...

i’m getting pretty depressed about this weekend. Running the ball against the Steelers seems futile. How were the packers able to neutralize both our tight ends?

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 11:09 AM CDT reply actions

Simple

They double covered Olsen constantly. Dez was open alot and had a catch or 2 but for some unknown reason played a terrible game mentally. He just screwed up his routes. He should have had a huge game. Very unusual for him.

by Shuffle85 on Sep 17, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Then Dez had the whole rib thing,

that didn’t help his game much at all.

You can't believe everything you read on the internet, that's how World War One got started.

by Ditkavsworld on Sep 17, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Hopefully Greg Olsen

has a breakout game.

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions

We should see a lot of Kellen Davis and Gaines to help make the running game go.

I’m not convinced that Olsen is tough enough to handle the blocking chores on those Pittsburgh LB’s. He’ll beat them in the passing game but I can’t see him handling Harrison and Woodley when we’re running the ball. Could be a big problem for the offense if you have to telegraph your plays by switching your TE when it’s run vs. pass.

by BearFan611 on Sep 17, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions

who was really responsible?

The fact that the defensive line allowd Rodgers time to get off a deep pass for a touchdown needs to be mentioned. If Rodgers had been planted on his ass prior to the throw or hurried, he would not have gotten a completion. Sure Vasher sucked on that play but the defensive line shares a big part of the blame.

"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur

by Maelvampyre on Sep 17, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions

I'd cut the D-line some slack on that play since it was a 3rd and one

that play was a real gamble. An incompletion, sack, or interception could have cost GB the game so they probably weren’t even thinking pass rush as much as they were thinking of stuffing the run.

by BearFan611 on Sep 17, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions

The line looked great almost the entire game.

I think the play-action fake may have bought Rodgers an extra second or two to get the pass off. Once Jennings blew by Vasher (and there was no deep help), that was the ball-game.

It’s a shame, because the line really played hard all night. When’s the last time the Bears had 4 sacks in a game, anyone?

by JimmyMack on Sep 17, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions

We've had 12

in one game before

"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler

by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Panthers in the regular season in '05.

Delhomme was sacked 8 times. Link!

by rikard on Sep 17, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

that must have been in '84 - or '85

That defense knocked out the starting QB in roughly half the games in each season.

by Waylon on Sep 17, 2009 1:33 PM CDT reply actions

84

was the 12, against the lions

"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler

by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions

my favorite sackfest was probably

against the cowboys. theres a great youtube video of it set to an ac/dc song. very entertaining

by reefermadness3 on Sep 17, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions

That explains what Emery Morrehead said about them...

…that the D’s philosophy was to take out the opposition quarterback and, if they managed that, they would try to take out the backup :-D

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy

by Spongie on Sep 17, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions

given today's rules

the entire defense would’ve been suspended by week 2.

by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Probably… but, damn, it would be fun to watch :-D

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy

by Spongie on Sep 17, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions

as much as i dont like vasher

This wasn’t all his fault like many have said. But with that being said having a 100 percent tillman and bowman out there our d can only get better. plus mcbride is out so vasher or graham will be covering the third i think we’ll have a good game vs the steelers. Also watching mannings closing speed i believe he would be better at FS than payne. so its between payne and AA as starting SS they are both good. so I really believe we beat the steelers 24-13 sunday. GO BEARS!

by Daseabeez on Sep 17, 2009 1:45 PM CDT reply actions

Manning

probably would have bit on that too, that’s part of the reason he’s still Nickel, because he mis diagnoses plays… maybe he could have closed to save The TD, but Payne is pretty much just as good, back there at FS (my opinion)

"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler

by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions

he probably would've

Just saying i think manning though with some time he could be really good with the speed he has. I’m just saying i think we’re good as far as talent once everyone is put in the right spots

by Daseabeez on Sep 17, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

VASHER LOST IT FOR US, HE SHOULD NOT START ANYMORE

Vasher is no more! He is no longer a starting caliber CB anymore, he sucks. That last TD pass Rogers threw to Jennings to win them the game did it for me. Theres a lot of things he did wrong in that game and it was so typical Vasher. I’m done with him, all he will do is drag us down all season long if we keep playing him as much as we did against Green Bay. Bowman got barely any reps! Get Vasher out of Chicago! Bowman needs to start over Vasher every game from now on, period! If we want our defense to be the best it can possibly be for the rest of the season, especially with Urlacher gone, Bowman needs to be the starting CB next to Tillman every game. Put Vasher on special teams because I don’t want him on defense anymore! We will lose with him on the field for us. I would rather have DJ Moore or Corey Graham in there than Nate Vasher. Lovie Smith and the rest of the coaching better make the right decision by taking away his starting job. Sure, if we got the game in the bag then yeah throw him in there so the offense can burn out Vasher and get 50 or 60 yards on him before they lose. But other than that, he needs to stay off the field if we want better winning chances. Bear fans need to agree with me.

by MonsterofMidway on Sep 17, 2009 2:09 PM CDT reply actions

The only reason he did is because he makes more money than Bowman

He shouldve never been out there over Bowman or even Graham for that matter. But when you get a big contract last year, they are going to do everything they can to try to get him to turn it around before they admit they made a mistake. Lovies too much of a company man.

Phil: " Whose baby is that?
Alan: "Check his collar or something." - The Hangover

by ANYTIME09 on Sep 17, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions

totally forgot about the contract

5 year extension if im not mistaken? what a waste….

by MonsterofMidway on Sep 17, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions

it sucks that we put money

over talent. we dont want the people who are better in there we want the ones making more. But i guess we better just get use to hearing the drawing board speech this season.

by Daseabeez on Sep 17, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions

yea just look at Omiyale over Beekman, thats another case of money over better player.

Phil: " Whose baby is that?
Alan: "Check his collar or something." - The Hangover

by ANYTIME09 on Sep 18, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

yup

well at least bowman is starting this weekend.

by Daseabeez on Sep 19, 2009 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions

Wrecked........

gotta say again; worst off season signing.

There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

by LostInSTL on Sep 19, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions

worse than bullocks?

could be close

by reefermadness3 on Sep 19, 2009 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions

You should change your name to “HystericalofMidway”

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy

by Spongie on Sep 17, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

lol

That’s a wreck.

by Virto on Sep 17, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions

The defensive backfield is a clusterfu*k

Nathan Vasher ceased being useful in 2007 and has been hanging on to a roster spot for reasons that dumbfound. But rest assured he isn’t the whole problem.

Expecting Peanut Tillman to be the silver bullet solution to what ails the secondary is silly.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Sep 17, 2009 5:42 PM CDT reply actions