Dissecting the Play: Rodgers to Jennings (game winner)
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 1:00 PM CDT
60 comments
It was third down with one yard to go from midfield. Fourth quarter, a little more than a minute left on the clock, with Green Bay trailing by two. Just the kind of situation the Brett Favre led Packers were known for taking a shot on. Would the Aaron Rodgers version do the same? You had to figure they were in 2 down territory, so a pass, check that, a play-action pass, should have been on the collective minds of the Bears defense.
A lot of talk has been made of Nathan Vasher doing his best Elvis Patterson impression on the play, and of course head coach Lovie Smith taking to his CB's defense by implicating safety Kevin Payne on the play as well.
But, should the blame be shared equally?
Vasher said;
"I lost my footing a little bit, but I definitely have to be on top [of the pass route],"
Yes, Vasher should have been on top of the route, because he looked to be in man to man coverage. The Bears weren't in Cover 2 on the play. They had strong safety Al Afalava as an eighth in the box to defend against the run, and Kevin Payne was the lone safety. Given the circumstance I would have rather seen the Bears in the Cover 2, the defense had done a solid job against the run all day so put it on the d-line to protect that yard.
In the Tribune's Bears Bits by Vaughn McClure we read;
The Bears apparently were playing a version of quarter-quarter-half, with each cornerback responsible for a quarter of the field and the free safety responsible for the middle half. Strong safety Al Afalavacame up on Rodgers' play fake, then Vasher anticipated help as he covered his zone down the left side.
"Can't give up a deep ball late," Smith said. "Nate wasn't the only one that was a part of that."
Smith was asked to detail what happened on the play.
"Al was coming down in support, which he should have done," he said. "Someone else should have been back deep in the middle of the field -- not Al."
OK, First off, Vasher didn't anticipate help, he slipped, and even if he didn't slip, he would've got toasted on the play because he doesn't have the speed to cover one on one. And is their version of quarter-quarter-half, Cover 1 with both CB's manning up if their WR takes it deep, or Cover 3 with both CB's responsible for their deep quarter, and the safety responsible for the middle half? If it were the latter, then there is no reason for Vasher to do anything but immediately backpedal then turn and run with Jennings. If it was more a Cover 1 look, then Payne would have a better chance protecting against a deep crossing route or a post route. In fact with Payne taking deep middle in any instance, he's looking for those routes. Expecting him to cover the deep middle, then get over to the sideline (deep quarter) to offer Vasher help is a tough cover, even for a 4.3 40 type player. A little tangent here; Wouldn't it be nice to not have to always "help" out our corner?
The play can get spun any way they'd like, but bottom line is that was Vashers man. Could Payne have been there to help out? Yes. Could he have ran over in time to help and cover his first responsibility (deep middle)? Probably, if he were to recognize the play from the snap. Did the Packers just have a great play call on. Unfortunately, yes.
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It was a go-for-all the marbles call and a great play fake
They went after Vasher because they knew he was our weak link and the play was executed to perfection. We were looking for the run on 3rd and 1, so they knew there was a good chance that they’d get Vasher 1-on-1.
by JimmyMack on Sep 17, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
someone mentioned in the Vasher thread
that it looked like Payne was cheating over to Tillmans side… if you expect anyone needs help it’s Vasher!
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i think
vasher was anticipating a slant route by jennings on that play. you know, the route he gives up 5-10 yards on every time.
by genetic on Sep 17, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elvis "Toast" Patterson
Reminds me of Mike Richardson. But the poor guy was out on an island. Leslie Frazier must have been a hell of a coverage guy in retrospect.
by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Old LA (Lazy Ass) as Buddy Ryan called Richardson
Frazier was much better, but they both benefited from the QB having about 2.5 seconds to drop and get rid of the ball. Marino was the only one who did well against the 46 because he was in the shotgun, had 4 receivers on many plays, and had such a quick release. I always wondered what the Super Bowl would have been like if Miami had made it. I think the Bears would have won, but Miami would have scored a lot more than New England.
Sadly, that Super Bowl was the last game Frazier would ever play due to an injury on a punt return.
by Duck99 on Sep 17, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was before the nickle defense days
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so - their nickel back is now the longest tenured head coach in the NFL
by Duck99 on Sep 17, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be Jeff Fischer
And for more ’85 Bears trivia. The most amazing thing about that defense is that it was missing two pro bowlers from the previous year who held out for more money.
by Duck99 on Sep 17, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fisher didn't play in 1985
His last year was ‘84, here’s his playing stats.
And what I meant was it was before the specialization of nickle defenses came to be the norm
It’s how the Dolphins threw all over, the Bears were caught with Otis Wilson and Wilbur Marshall covering WR’s all night.
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I always thought
It was the three step drop that killed the Bears in Miami that night?
by GallopingGhost on Sep 17, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was part of it
multiple receiver sets, and a short passing game
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats changed?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as in with defenses?
these days teams pull off a LB or 2 and replace them with DB’s back in the day most teams only did that stuff on obvious passing situations, electing to stay with the starting D… which is why Otis Wilson and Wilbur Marshall were stuck trying to cover 3rd WR Nat Moore in the 3 WR sets the Dolphins used
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i meant getting smoked
on the short slant vasher gets burned on….nvm
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking at the box score
bears had more yardage, but turned the ball over 4 times. held miami to 7 points in the second half. marino had 270 yards. about average for him.
by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He still later called it
His best game ever.
by GallopingGhost on Sep 17, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just about everything that could go wrong did for the Bears that night
Even with McMahon out I thought they were going to come back in the 3rd qtr. Hampton tipped a 3rd down pass that would of meant a punt but one of the Marks (Duper or Clayton) caught it in stride about 30 yards downfield and walked in for a TD that basically decided the game.
Would have liked to see what a healthy McMahon would have done.
by Duck99 on Sep 17, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone would
if they beat the best team ever assembled
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 18, 2009 4:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Nathan "Toast" Vasher
I think the ’85 Bears had pretty decent corners, since they had to play so much single coverage in the 46 defense.
by JimmyMack on Sep 17, 2009 1:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How about this...
Let’s have Leslie Frazier do a Brett Favre and come out of retirement. He’s still probably as good as Vasher. Can’t be any worse.
by Big Ike on Sep 17, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a lot easier to play single coverage
when the qb shits himself in anticipation of the beating he’s about to take.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
by JerBear50 on Sep 18, 2009 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care how
you slice it, this falls on Vasher.
The “old” (one season) Vasher would not only have run step for step and made a play on the ball, the “Interceptor” may even have intercepted it (were it thrown right to him).
Seriously, Vasher stumbled. Got burned.
He’s a starting CB in the NFL—he needs to be able to match up against MOST WRs 1:1 for most of a game, especially in a do-or-die moment like that.
Like you said—regardless of the particulars of the coverage, it was Vasher’s blunder that led DIRECTLY to the deciding score.
No bones about it—Vasher’s a fullblown LIABILITY.
Now, I gotta wonder how BOWMAN would’ve fared out there on an island with Jennings?
by Amishbear on Sep 17, 2009 2:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
GET VASHER OUT OF CHICAGO!
I’M DONE WITH HIM! THAT TOTALLY FALLS ON VASHER ALL THE WAY! How can you “lose your footing” when the game is one the line??? A Crucial game! You are an NFL cornerback playing man to man coverage to keep the lead and potentially win the game and you “lose your footing”? Yeah so do the kids in pop warner and freshman in high school. YOU STINK VASHER! Bowman needs to start over Vasher every game for the rest of the season if we want any kind of decent winning chances, especially with Urlacher gone. KEEP VASHER OFF THE FIELD! PERIOD!
by MonsterofMidway on Sep 17, 2009 2:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good grief, Charlie Brown.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Sep 17, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
by JerBear50 on Sep 18, 2009 2:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They called a good play,
but when you’re alone on an island against a speed demon like Jennings you better not be playing close to the lineup scrimmage like Vasher did. What I would have done was inch towards the line so they wouldn’t attempt a quick slant and before the snap reverse course and protect against the downfield play. When you’re alone you don’t gamble or put yourself in a slip-and-you’re-screwed situation like Vasher did. In my book, that play was all on Vasher. He’s not quick, fast or fluid enough to play with the big boys. The other three teams all have a bunch of good receivers, all of which can feast on Vasher.
by dakoose on Sep 17, 2009 3:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What i dont understand
at all, is if you know you dont have big time speed, to keep up with Jennings, why not try and Jam him right on the line… press up on him, that way, when Rodgers rolls out to look at Jennings, he’s covered/jammed at the line, and then he has to cross vision to the other side of the field(Driver)…. by this time, our D surely has penetrated, and we have a broken play… regardless if Jennings by now has toasted Nate.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the problem with pressing is
if he beats your jam, he’s gone
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
figured since
he knew he couldnt keep him in front of him anyways, it couldnt hurt to slow him up for a second… or maybe just assign Tillman to him?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is not a wise play in that situation.
For starters, Jennings is too strong/fast/quick to get jammed by Vasher, and the Bears mantra on defense is to keep everything in front of them by eliminating the big plays. Vasher doesn’t jam receivers well and even if he did, there wasn’t much help downfield.
by dakoose on Sep 17, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bears just dumped Trumaine McBride and claimed rookie CB DeAngelo Smith (CLE) off waivers
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
former 5th rounder
ran a 4.57 at the combine.
by Hatchetm on Sep 17, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DeAngelo Smith scouting report from NFL.com
Analysis
Positives: Aggressive, adequately-sized corner with long arms and confidence. … Stays low in his pedal and flips his hips open well. … Good hands for the interception when closing forward on the ball. … Attacks quick screens behind the line of scrimmage, will throw his body into the tackle. … Has played some free safety when needed and also returned kicks. … Works hard to improve his game.
Negatives: Fits best in a zone system where he can see the play in front of him and close on the ball. … Plays near the line at times but does not get his hands on receivers. … Gambles to get to the ball. … Only adequate straight-line speed. … Has trouble adjusting to the ball in the air and making the interceptions when moving backward. … Has a tough time getting off wide receiver’s blocks due to his lack of size and upper-body strength. … Gets turned around easily. … Lacks the suddenness to handle quick slot receivers. … Not a physical tackler. … Whiffs on attempts to cut tackle because he ducks his head. … Questionable ball security, decision-making and speed as a punt returner.
by wiltfongjr on Sep 17, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Experience at FS never hurts
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rookie
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I thought...
I wonder if this move says anything about the Bears opinion of DJ…?
Or if it’s just depth.
by Amishbear on Sep 17, 2009 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um. I think it says more about their opinion of McBride.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly
I guess they exhausted all their pateince for CB injuries on the starters…
McBride was a big special teamer, though…2nd in snaps, I think.
Hope this roll of the dice on a Browns retread works out better than the short-lived Hood experiment…
by Amishbear on Sep 17, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
http://www.deangelosmith31.com/
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol nice one sackman
not gonna miss mcbride one bit
hope this new guy can contribute something
by reefermadness3 on Sep 17, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's good enough to play in the NFL, he probably fits best on a team that plays zone.
Perhaps that’s why the Cowboys and Browns have let him go.
The Bears may have been interested the first time around, but Cleveland had a higher waiver priority.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
by SackMan on Sep 17, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like an ideal fit in the Bears' Cover 2 system
“Fits best in a zone system where he can see the play in front of him and close on the ball”
“Attacks quick screens behind the line of scrimmage, will throw his body into the tackle”
“Gambles to get to the ball”
by Poloplaya14 on Sep 17, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry i dont like McBride
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 17, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
I am probably wrong, but I say that if the defensive line had pressured or sacked Rodgers before he got the pass off, then there would never have been a completion in this case. Do or die situation right, as someone said above. It all starts with the line and they gave Rodgers time to get the pass off.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
by Maelvampyre on Sep 17, 2009 3:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's true
But on 3rd and 1, they were selling out for the run…I don’t have replay of the play, but I imagine Rodgers’ drop was pretty deep, too.
Still, this play has echoes of last year written all over it…
by Amishbear on Sep 17, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am probably wrong, but I say that if the defensive line had pressured or sacked Rodgers before he got the pass off, then there would never have been a completion in this case
No, you’re right… but if the D-line pressures or sacks the QB before they get the pass off in any case, in all likelihood there wouldn’t have been a completion…..
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
by Spongie on Sep 17, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
True, but I was referrring to this “case” specifically because of the focus on Vasher. Poor writing on my part.
"Chance favors the prepared mind." - Pasteur
by Maelvampyre on Sep 17, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I remember it...
The play call was run. They had thier jumbo package in and Rodgers caught Al cheating up. He audibled out and into a play-action. And beat vasher badly. The formation was a cover-1 man. So Payne should have been there considering he was the only reciever running more than 3 yards deep.
Formerly Scespy12... needed a better name!
by Eaten by Bears on Sep 17, 2009 4:01 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
This Thing Is Getting Over Analyzed To Death.
The Bears were burned. Conventional wisdom at the time was that the Packers would run the ball to continue the ball and take their shots at the endzone later. They were gashing us up the middle all night. Payne cheated up to play the run and Vasher stumbled when the Packers decided to roll the dice for the win. The end.
by Gesiakob on Sep 17, 2009 5:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
4 INT'S
a bad fake punt , and they still had to win it on a 50 yard play that we thought would happen early rather then late. Please remember what we worried about the secondary in the start of the season. Bear down.
There are only three types of people; makers, takers, and fakers. Which one are you???
by gaingrene on Sep 17, 2009 6:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It was a great call by the Packers, but it could have been broken up by CB who has speed and better coverage skills. I am glad that Bowman is starting in place of Vasher this sunday.
by NiqueBears on Sep 17, 2009 7:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When the Bears get
there 4Ints this week they will be just fine ,
There are only three types of people; makers, takers, and fakers. Which one are you???
by gaingrene on Sep 17, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soldier field turf 46 Pittsburgh 17
There are only three types of people; makers, takers, and fakers. Which one are you???
by gaingrene on Sep 17, 2009 7:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On the positive side of all of this...
Vasher will be a 2nd-string corner, and if Bowman or Tillman goes down again, he will get to step in and earn his $2.9 million (or whatever it is he’ll make this year).
Let’s just hope they put him on the slowest receiver on the field next time…
by JimmyMack on Sep 17, 2009 8:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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