Offensive Efficiency: Looking at Ron Turner's Plays
by Dane Noble on Sep 28, 2009 11:38 AM CDT
67 comments
A topic that carried over from last year is offensive coordinator Ron Turner's play calling, and whether he is efficient enough to get us deep into the playoffs. Some people say that he is too predictable, while others simply think the offensive productivity is simply a product of the talent he has to work with.
Let's take a look at the offensive play calling from the Seattle game, and see what we can make of it.
First, let's look at the number of plays, per down, in a rush versus pass ratio. I have removed plays that had penalties and turnovers.
Total rush versus pass for the entire game: 26/ 26
1st down: 14/ 10
2nd down: 10/ 9
3rd down: 2/ 7
Next, a look at first downs achieved, rush vs pass: 3/ 11
1st down: 0/ 1
2nd down: 3/ 5
3rd down: 0/ 4
4th down: 0/ 1
All of our TDs (3) came on pass plays, with one on 2nd down, one on 3rd, and one on 4th.
Overall, the Bears had nine running plays that went for 4 yards or more, with four coming on 1st down, and five coming on 2nd down.
Say what you will about coach Turner's play calling, but these numbers show some pretty balanced and efficient plays. Take away mental errors (penalties) and fumbles, and the numbers would be even better. As has been stated in other threads, considering over half of our offensive starters have never played together before, we are doing pretty good.
Like WCG said, we are still at a point where we are starting too slowly, but when it counts the most, we are making plays. Hopefully, as the season progresses, we will see an even more efficient offense on the field.
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You make a decent point about the balance...
But how about taking into account that we continually ran the ball up the middle when there was nothing to be had up the middle. I can’t tell you how many times we ran up the middle and got 0, 1, or 2 yards it was ridiculous. We need to run the ball more off tackle and let forte try and use his speed because whenever he gets the ball he has men in his face already and he doesn’t have momentuum going yet to run him over, or does he have enough room to make a guy miss.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
Forte's strength last year,
at least from my perspective, wasn’t his speed, or ability to run over folks. It was his shiftiness, which was his strength at Tulane as well. He has great vision, and the ability to shift the run into a seam. Those talents don’t go away, at least not in a RB’s second season.
So, are the seams not there yet this season? Or is he running more vertically by design? It’s still early in the year, and our passing game is definitely picking up the slack, regardless of the reasons.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
3 straight handoffs to Wolfe
was pretty odd. can anyone explain that one?
The Bears have said they will sit Forte
for 1 or 2 series each game to rest him. The series where Wolfe ran it, he gained 3 yards the first play, and 6 yards on 2nd down. On 3rd and 1, we chose to run the ball, which is not a bad thing. We just didn’t convert.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
Wolfe up the middle on 3rd and 1
is not a bad thing?
I don't think so.
I think that finding little things to point a finger at is pointless. He had just gained 9 yards on the previous 2 plays… and running the ball on 3rd and 1 is the majority of the time going to be the call. Sometimes it works, and sometimes the defense holds.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
Did you see how tentative he was?
He literally tip-toed after receiving the handoff. He doesn’t look the part of a short-yardage back…at all.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
I wonder
if they maybe thought that by Keeping GW in on 3rd down, the D would think Play Action or just pass?
AP would have been a dead run giveaway, although i think he could have gotten it, or a Cutler sneak
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
That's exactly why you use AP...
And use the playaction pass…
If Seattle is 100% sure that AP is going to get the ball up the middle, than do anything else to catch them off guard…
Hell, I would of loved to see McKie in there to run the play action off of a FB dive line up.
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Sep 28, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont think
anything related to Mckie or FB dive should even be in the playbook
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
ROFL
Beat me to it..lol but that was delivered oh so eloquently. wrek’d as well.
by Chitownproduct on Sep 29, 2009 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions
I see this as Turner's problem...
he tries to outsmart everyone…including himself. It’s a misnomer to think that the down and distance don’t make a difference. All offenses and defenses have plays for situations like 1st and 15 or “need 7 yards”, etc. Wolfe running up the middle on 3rd and 1 is much more likely and thus defenses will be preparing for it almost without having to think about it. To me, the second down success was due less to Wolfe’s ability than to the wider range of possibilities on 2nd down that defenses have to account for. This is why I get so angry at Turner. The second down call was a good one, but the third down call was dumb. Not because it didn’t work, but because it had the least chance of success. IMO, the problems with this season’s offense are related mostly to execution anyway, specifically the O-line.
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
Yeah i agree
it becomes just the law of porbability at that point. you need to do something that is either a mismatch, or something simple. trying to “outthink” the opponent is where you vastly underestimate Defensive playcalling, unless it’s 3rd and long against the Bears
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
probability
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
more like
threw him to the Lions.
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem with that
This one to two series per game usually come(s) later in the game and at crucial times when the game is on the line. Expecting GW to gain a yard up the middle on a predictable running down is too much to ask. Forte/AP should immediately replace GW in these situations. Is it too much to ask Turner for some flexibility in changing within their plan? I suppose it is cause this coaching staff (esp. offense) is reluctant to adapt within the game itself.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
I'll agree that AP is more of a 3rd down back than GW.
But I also think that our offense is holding up just fine right now. Do we have things to improve on? Sure. But, it is still early in the season, and we are looking at potentially being 3-1 after the first four games.
I’ll take this Bears offense over last year’s 100% of the time.
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
Don't get me wrong
I’ll take it as well. I’m just frustrated with Turner not being very creative and/or being able to make adjustments with his personnel.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
Shouldn't the offense be playing as a cohesive unit...
…before you start being creative, though?
The adjustment part is valid, I think. Although, I think he makes adjustments on those late drives.
I guess
but where were the screens or draws? These are the kinds of plays GW excells at. Why not try spreading out a defense with a 4 WR set, and calling a draw? Wouldn’t that have better results than a 3 yard loss? Turner refuses to deviate from his conservative ways. Seriously, did the coaching staff actually think GW would be a great runner in-between the tackles? Too predictable…
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
Turner's worst call of the game
Was the third handoff to wolfe. It looked like a stretch play……on third and 1, put in Peterson and go up the middle. I understand that A and B gap runs have not been a big success this year, but I still like peterson up the gut in that spot.
"If you're scared, go buy a dog" - Stacey King
I Still Have A Problem With That.
It made no sense whatsoever to hand the ball of to Wolfe 3 consecutive times. The third and 1 hand off was complete stupidity. Hopefully we will not be introduced to that experiment again. I’m not a big Garrett Wolfe fan as I think he is to small of a player in the NFL. I prefer to see some more play from Adrian Peterson spelling Forte. I still give Ron Turner a lot of credit for the gutsy call of play action pass on 4th and Goal to end the first half with a Touchdown. As this Offense evolves I just hope to see the run game be a big part of it. We shall see. Nice post GeauxBears.
not only that
the PA pass on 4th and Goal, was lucky to get off, Cutler was getting hit as he threw… ZERO protection or time
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Tired of hearing about GW being to small for the NFL.
Being small is not his problem. Not being very good is his problem.
GW- 5’7" 177lbs
Darren Sproles- 5’6" 181lbs
You can't believe everything you read on the internet, that's how World War One got started.
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 28, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
i wouldnt say that
Darren Sproles didn’t start off good in San Diego remember he was behind Michael Turner and LT until last year aaaaand San Diego got stopped on a 4th n 1 using sproles up the middle also..so i wouldnt read to much into it…wolfe is gonna make some big plays this year
I'm not saying
Sproles came out like gangbusters in his first year, and that doesn’t really matter because it’s not GW first year. He has abilites out on the edge he is not a between the tackles guy. I don’t care what he did in College. IF Turner would play to GW’s strength he’d be much more productive. But my main point was that I’m tired of his size being blamed for why he doesn’t perfom, IMO size has nothing to do with it.
You can't believe everything you read on the internet, that's how World War One got started.
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 28, 2009 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed about size
but i have to dispute you on not being very good.
it would be like having orlando pace line up at WR
it doesnt make sense… if we are using GW, we needs screens or tosses. not HB Gut plays, that only works in Madden
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
sproles is stocky
GW is just small with no explosiveness(sp) and nothing much to offer other than special team play. He had a defender jump over his head for a sack(or a qb hit. I can’t remember.) Right over his head. MJD is short too but he is built n doesn’t get hand tackled like GW does.
by Ryan21 on Sep 28, 2009 6:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Someone else got hurdled this weekend
that is quite a bit taller than GW… with atheletes these days having 40+ inch verticals, height is usually irrelevant.
he ran a 4.3 something for his 40’s… thats pretty quick, if not explosive
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It comes down more to our Offensive line
getting pushed into the backfield at the snap then GW not being a fit for the NFL. It seems like every time we run the ball there is someone in the backs face as soon as they get the handoff. If not in there face there messing up the lane for the lineman who are pulling.
There's so many new topics today, I don't even know where to comment.
Bears win! Woo-hoo
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Exactly
we didn’t play well yesterday or with a lot of intensity. But we traveled across the country. played in a tough environment, and got a win against a depleted but amped up team. We took care of business and should be 3-1 heading into the bye.
I wonder if Fortes just not getting enough carries?
Derreck Rose, you’ve gotta be flat-out kidding me. Double overtime! Triple overtime!- Chuck wack on crack
Or is he bothered by his knee?
Read that somehwere…
It could be young, yet-to-gel line play + knee + sophomore slumping…
Either way, I expect him to pick it up…if not this coming week, then I might start to sweat a bit…
Oh, and I see the reasoning for the 3rd Wolfe hand off (b/c it worked the first two times), but I don’t like it, not on a 3rd down.
GW up the middle on 3rd and 1 is a boneheaded call, no matter what preceded it…
I’m not b1tching, though—I’m psyched about the win and the (good) chance to move to 3-1.
(still nauseous from that disgusting Vikes win, though….poor Samurai Mike and Niners…even without their best player, outplayed the vikes, only to get beat on a fluke at the end…)
I see you changed your pic back....
You can't believe everything you read on the internet, that's how World War One got started.
by Ditkavsworld on Sep 28, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Not that if affected the outcome of the game, but the last play of the 1st half still bothers me...
I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again. Why would you give up 2 first round draft picks on a guy who can throw the ball 70 yards and then hand off to Forte with 9 seconds left. What was the worst that could happen, an interception in the end zone to end the half? If you have a guy like Cutler, USE HIM!!!!! I would have even understood Cutler taking a knee more than that handoff up the middle to Forte, it made absolutely no sense.
The line of scrimmage was at our own 33 yard line.
That would have been one hell of a Hail Mary toss. But what difference would it have been in taking a knee versus giving Forte the hand off?
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Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
No risk of injury...
I agree it would have been a hell of a toss but even if they would have made a catch at the 5, you had some chance of getting in. The play called was, in my opinion, useless since it looked almost like a dive play where you really weren’t trying for anything more than to run the clock out. They risked further injury to Forte’s knee which he hurt in the first quarter and to your linemen. If you didn’t want to throw it downfield, then take a knee and let everyone know it. Even an end around to Hester or Knox would have provided some tiny chance of a score. Like I said, it didn’t affect the outcome but it would have been nice to see some effort for a change.
Why not hand it off?
There’s more of a chance of Forte breaking a long touchdown run ie Frank Gore vs the seahawks the week b4 than completing a hail mary for a touchdown let’s be real
Ummm...
Okay.
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
It's the end of the half
Cutler drops back pressure from the outside he fumbles they pick it up and return it for a TD..then it’s why didnt they jus run or take a knee…some people are never happy
And some people never read...
I said if they weren’t going to throw, they should have taken a knee in the original post. And yes, as long as we just make it past a team with 8 starters out of the lineup with the roughest part of our schedule coming up after the break, I’ll never be happy with a performance like that and hopefully the coaching staff feels the same way.
We won
and good teams can win when they dont play their best ball…and to be honest we really havent played a Good game yet and have a chance to be 3-1 going into the bye week..i think that’s more than enough reason to be super optimistic heading into the 2nd quarter of the season
I don't think anyone here who has been critical of any part of the Bears performance
are not optimisitc, but it’s also ridiculous to hide your head in the sand at obvious weaknesses.
We have a weakness
and it’s our defense..the running game will catch up that’s why we have Cutler to spread the wealth until it does..but the defense letting julius jones?!! almost get a 100 yard game?!?! and seneca wallace throwing like he did is just ridiculous.the offense will be ok but the defense i am worried about
Or a pick 6?
"I'm sorry Josh, I'm with Chicago now, you need to stop calling me" -JerBear50 as Jay Cutler
by BearNecessities on Sep 28, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I Think It Is A Non Issue BearsFan611.
I heard Doug Buffone going on and on about this as well after the game on the Score670. I think the Bears were content to go into the locker room down by 6 points. Yes we could have thrown a Hail Mary for an improbable Touchdown. Here are some other improbable things that could have happened.
1. Jay Cutler is injured on the play.
2 It is intercepted and returnded for a TD.
3. One of our Receivers is hurt or another player on the same play.
So ‘who cares’ , we won the game.
See my comment above, they risked injury to Forte on the call they made.
You are right it is a non-issue as far as yesterday’s game as it turned out, but the coaching staff needs to be more aggressive with this QB and use his abiliites to the fullest. That’s where it’s disappointing.
The only thing im worried about is the slow starts
and playing from behind..There’s no way we can continue to do that and win..even tho Cutler is looking good since the 2nd half of the Packers game…aaah we should be 3-0
What's the difference?
In handing off that play or running the same play to start the next series? You don’t call plays to not get hurt..all it takes is one big run to get that confidence back up and that’s what they were trying to do..it was a safe play to try and get Forte some confidence going into the half
To use your own argument from earlier
why risk the fumble in the exchange between Cutler and Forte instead of just taking the knee?
And there is a huge difference between the last play of the first half with 9 seconds left and the first play of the second half when you’re setting up your game plan after adjustments. The chances of the play at the end of the half is a crapshoot so why risk injury to a key player on that, but to play out the rest of the game is a different story.
We’ve wasted way too much time discussing a completely unimportant point here, so I’m done.
Okay, you pulled me back in with that one...
you have no choice with the center – QB snap otherwise the playclock doesn’t even start, sooooo……..
right so why not hand it to Forte
Frank Gore had 2 70 plus td runs against them All they were trying to do was get some positive yards and see if lightning would strike for us too..had they been a little closer to the 50 im sure they woulda thrown it up
Lightnight strike or injury
Would happen on either a run or a pass.
Also Bearfan611 was saying was that if they were going to play that conservative, take the knee.
true
but you have evidence they have been vulnerable to a long run not a hail mary pass and given the option of doing either on the 33yd line i would say run…had he broke a long run the play would have been great in either case it doesnt really matter..
some of yall are nitpicking
we won the Game!! and you need to look at the BIG picture. While the running game isnt goin well right now we know what we have in Forte, what we didnt know is what we actually had at WR and with the runnig game not working it’s forcing us to pass more and our WR’s are coming up BIG which in turn will pay huge dividends as the season progresses because the more or WR’s Eat up 1 on 1 coverage now the less other teams will be inclined to play us like that thus giving forte more room to run…be patient im liking what im seeing outta them so far plus we got forte involved in the passing game yesterday…
What was the point of that post ?
How does showing a few numbers defend RTs ridiculous and obviously ineffective gameplans ? All you did was break down rush/pass per down. Where are the actual types of plays ? Where is the complete lack of counter traps/ counter treys on running plays shown ? Draws on third and long ? His persistence with the Air Coryell offense which does not work against modern defenses and substitutions is arrogantly futile. No scrambling rules for Cutler in training camp ? Never even considered. Reluctance to use Cutler by having a few cracks at the end zone on first down and stretch the field vertically ? Change it up some Ron ? No. He is out of his depth in the NFL and anybody that STILL defends the muppet is out of their depth watching it.
by Irish Bears Fan on Sep 29, 2009 3:36 AM CDT reply actions
Lol.
Feel better? And jees louise buddy, you work nights or something?
I’m not defending anything or anyone in this post… but I think the numbers do show that there was plenty of our offensive plays called that were efficient. Could we be better? Sure… perfection is always a goal.
Our biggest need of improvement is the running game, but, like has been stated over and over, more than half of our offensive starters are new, including both OTs. And a good football team will always be able to pick up the slack of areas they are lacking in.
Btw, so far, two of the three defenses we have played have been 3-4 defenses. You won’t see too many traps/ counter traps against 3-4 defenses.
Final thought: The last several years, we have had to rely on our defense/ STs to make up for our lack of offense. Isn’t it a good feeling that we don’t have to do that this year?
Be nice. Flag comments that you think are offensive. Use the "reply" button. Drink plenty of water. Compliment others. Rec (wreck) comments and posts you like. Don't call people names. If you don't like someone's comment, attack the comment and not the commentor. Learn the difference in your/you're, then/than, to/too. Exercise. Relax. Stretch often. Find good in the world.
Just because it can be done on Madden NFL does not automatically make it a viable option in real life.
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