The Bears Den: 1/19/10
by Kev H on Jan 19, 2010 3:00 AM CST
in The Bears Den
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I agree
the 911 call is not meant to be something broadcast over the world
I thought Dusty was already waived?
here’s to hoping for Julius Peppers!
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Jan 19, 2010 6:14 AM CST reply actions
Glad you see it my way.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Also note, I forgot about them waiving him.
Partially because a lot of articles about the arrest didn’t mention it.
Julius Peppers is exceptionally unlikely.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
julius peppers
wants a 3-4 team
however
Aaron Kampman may be a possble hire.
He hated the 3-4, and is loking to get back into the 4-3 scheme.
He also may come relitvely cheap due to the fact that he suffered and injury
"If you call them, they will come." - Jerry Angle/Lovie Smith after vacating the OC spot
He's great, but...
do we really want to take in another injured player…why can’t the Bears land someone healthy and wanting to work, instead of “used to be great before the injury” candidates. Case and point would have to be Darren Sharper, would have been a fantastic grab for us, but since he was healthy and pricey, the Bears ended up going with their cheap and below average current roster.
Someone also mentioned Tomlinson, that also falls into this category
answered your own question
the $1 BILLION+ Bears don’t do pricey, even if that is the difference between good and bad or healthy and not healthy or winning and losing. Like you said thats how we wound up with Josh Bullocks instead of Darren Sharper. I’m not sure which category you were putting LT into though… but I think it’d be a great signing for us, even though the guy I want to compliment Forte is Toby Gerhart.
Enough with the throwing money into the DLine already!! Year after year all we focus on is the DLine (that’s all JA knows how to do, the Bears have become Tampa Bay 2.0), while neglecting the secondary and the skill positions. Mark Anderson is a beast if/when they unleash him on the QB, #96 gets after it. Behind them we have Jarron Gilbert. Inside we have Tommie, Anthony Adams, Marcus Harrison, and Izzy… point being we have the bodies and the talent to get it done on the defensive line. Cannot say the same for the OLine, the secondary, wrs, or hb…
but Julius Peppers or Kampman would be nice….
Yup...
They never spend the money on big time players, like a Jay Cutler. Or pay to keep players who have performed in their system, like a Tommie Harris or a Lance Briggs.
Just because they don’t sign or trade for every “superstar” name, doesn’t make them cheap.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
if you don't think this organization is cheap you aren't paying attention
Last guy they went out and paid was Ruben Brown and we went to the Super Bowl. That is not a coincidence, you get what you pay for in this league and the Bears pay just enough to placate fans, not to win.
ridonkulous!
Vasher, Tillman, Hester, Briggs, Harris, Gould. All players that were playing extremely well and could have reached the open market. At the time, teams would have lined up for their services. Yet, the “cheap” Bears paid their players to keep them in Chicago.
Not to mention Urlacher, Idonije, Brown, et cetera, et cetera.
They absolutely pay for players. I wholly support businesses and organizations that promote and pay from within. The Bears do that.
And if you really think the Bears don’t “want to win” and/or simply are trying to do “just enough to placate fans,” then I don’t know what to tell you.
How’s the “get what you pay for” logic working out for the Raiders and the Redskins over the last few years? There’s more to this league than who writes the biggest checks.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
You read my mind, sir.
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by Ashley Czuba on Jan 19, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
So the redskins and the Raiders are the applicable standard...
So last year during the free agency period I was in Miami Beach where I live most of the year. I sat at a table next to super agent Drew Rosenhaus and I client (Bart Scott I do believe). While eavesdropping I heard Rosenhaus say " The Bears are not trying to pay anybody". True story, not just that he said it, but that the Bears had no intention of paying ANYBODY.
In addition the Bears were several million dollars under the cap this year. Instead of spending that money on umm say a player, that money went right back into their pockets.
Extending players that excel on your own team is neither a sign of a willingness to spend big bucks nor is it enough to compete in this league, especially when you have Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith running your drafts. Clearly the “pay from within” mentality that is NOT working for this organization. And in fact that strategy is significantly more frugal than paying for talent on the open market.
Put the koolaid down because your delusion that this organization does whatever it can to win is the reason why they are content with a 7-9 season and cashing their paychecks, business as usual. Bet you ate that press conference up. According to the status quo 8-8 next year will be an improvement and we will be even closer to the playoffs, so just like this offseason management will be thrilled with our “nucleus” and see no need to make additions to the roster.
But tell me more how resigning Nathan Vasher shows a commitment to excellence and winning….
In addition
the your list of resigned players is dwarfed by the list of players the bears chose not to resign or pursue that would not only contribute more than their current Bears counterpart(s), but have been successful elsewhere.
Oh great.
You’re one of the “Cedric Benson” hindsight people. Beyond Thomas Jones, Chris Harris and Brendan Ayanbedejo… who else would you have kept recently? Tank Johnson, Bernard Berrian, Benson, Kyle Orton, Mike Brown (I already know this answer).
I’m just glad to know that we have a person on WCG that is more effective at running an NFL franchise than the people that actually do it for a living. The rear view mirror was a beautiful invention, too bad we can’t just drive everywhere in reverse.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
LMAO.
I once had drinks with Jerry Maguire at a bar in DC. He was telling me how his favorite color was burnt sienna and he really liked dancing to Christina Aguilera songs. He’s so crazy.
Post convenient story time…
According to this site, the Bears had the fifth highest Cap for ‘09. Not really sure how accurate that is, so take it for what it is. However, I’d be interested to see you provide something other than speculation-based arguments.
That being said, they did nothing with their extra monies… or did they utilize a good deal of the space and sign Cutler to an extension? Thus, freeing up room later on.
Cutler had a $12 million roster bonus due in 2011, money that wasn’t guaranteed. In the extension, he moved a lot of money forward in the deal—he’ll pocket $16 million this season … linkers
Sure they still had cap space afterward. Would you rather them sign players just to eat the money? Would that make you feel like they’re trying harder to win?
I’d be willing to bet that the “pay from within” mentality was working just fine for you back in ’06. Lose a few seasons, and now the sky is falling and the organization and coaches are inept at making decisions.
Not to mention that they’ve spent the past few years injured… big shock that the team oft injured comes away with a 7-9 season. Craziness.
And yes, the Redskins and Raiders are an applicable standard of a team who’d prefer to write FA checks over paying for their own, no?!?
To close, you were against the Vasher signing when it happened?
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
You are way to proud of an approach that has resulted in a nonplayoff team 3 years in a row
Sign players just to eat the money?? As if we are so talented that we could not have used some help on the offensive line or in the secondary.
As I posted above the last big free agent signing was Ruben Brown, the most prominent recent example of the Bears bucking their tendency to pay from within. There is a direct correlation to that signing (Thomas Jones as well) and our trip to the Super Bowl in 06. So NO, the pay abnd promote from within strategy wasn’t working for me in ’ 06, nor was it even working for the Bears. They did something else and we went to the Super Bowl. They took the payday and were content reverting to their old ways.
With JA and Lovie trying to build this organization from within we have not made the playoffs for 3 years. Protest all you want but it will not change the FACT that the philosophy you so ardently defend IS NOT WORKING.
Your contention that the Bears willingness to spend money is shown by their past resignings ignores the fact that 9 times out of 10 resigning your own player is significantly cheaper than paying a good free agent. It also ignores the above mentioned failure of that philosophy to produce a winning football team.
We passed on Alan Faneca and Darren Sharper because management is cheap and incompetent enough to think they would find adequate or superior players within the organization. That is not hindsight. I could have told u then that Faneca is better than Beekman and Sharper is better than Bullocks. Pay those players money that we do/did have and we make the playoffs. Don’t pay them and we suck, management didn’t pay them because they rake in the cash either way, no real incentive.
My story is not convenient, it is relevant. But I am sure you feel you have a greater appreciation for Bears management than Drew Rosenhaus, who btw had no motive to lie.
You can not guarantee
that if we sign Faneca or Sharper we would suddenly have made the playoffs. You can state there’s an increased likelihood, but neither of those two players were singlehandedly going to be responsible for three extra wins.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Also, he would have reason to convince
a player not to look at a team that they may want to play for, and to instead look at a team that will pay more.
The idea being, his compensation is directly tied to how much the player makes.
While most players are still going to go where they’ll get paid the most, some will choose a location based on whether they like it or want to play there. The “hometown discount”, if you will.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
while you are entitled to an opinion, you impugn his motives and or credibility, which i think is beyond you.
in addition you do so with the same matter-of -factness you criticized me for using when describing the impact Faneca and Sharper may have had (playoffs).
just sayin….
I didn't call him wrong or false in his judgement.
I merely said that he would, in fact, have motivation to mislead his own client.
Secondly, I really hope you don’t believe that the addition of either one of those players would suddenly have vaulted this team to the playoffs.
I would love to have either or both of them, I’m definitely on that. But you specifically said:
I could have told u then that Faneca is better than Beekman and Sharper is better than Bullocks. Pay those players money that we do/did have and we make the playoffs
I can and will matter-of-factly state that you have no way to prove that.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
that does not make it any less true
absence of proof is not proof of absence.
If you replace the 2 weakest players at your 2 weakest positions with 2 perennial Pro Bowlers, then you will make the playoffs is not only reasonable, but also logically sound.
Like i said above, can I guarantee with certainty an entirely hypothetical situation beyond testing? no. But I will stand by the assertion that inserting 2 pro bowlers at our 2 worst positions more likely than not “suddenly vaults” us into the playoffs.
Your attempts to dispute this reasonable, albeit hypothetical, assertion are dumbfounding.
Do you seriously think that replacing the people at our 2 weakest positions with 2 perennial Pro Bowlers doesn’t make us significantly better? Doesn’t make us a playoff team?
How are we arguing
about something we fundamentally agree on?
Yes, those two players would make us better. You stated that if we pay those two players, we’re in the playoffs. That’s the only part I had a problem with.
Are the chances of them making the playoffs greater? Undoubtedly. You, however, made a direct proclaimation that with them, we’re in. I merely said that your DIRECT STATEMENT was not automatically true.
You’ll notice that in other comments across this site, I’ve continually maintained that the Bears pay money, typically to the wrong people. As much as anyone I feel there have been many, many bone-headed personnel decisions. The people they do choose to pay are often leaps of faith, and yes, cheaper than other free agent players. A large part of this is due to the fact that they did tie up money with players who had strong years.
For example, we all are frustrated by Nathan Vasher’s contract and lack of production. But tell me, if they had let “The Interceptor” go, and he had gone to another team and had tremendous success, wouldn’t we all be pissed that they let him go?
A lot of these things are based on a lot of different factors, and yes, we can’t know all the facts. I will absolutely not deny you that either one or both Faneca and Sharper would have made this team incredibly strong. But we can’t just make assumptions like that. It’s not going to work.
I can’t help but feel this is frustrating both of us because we’re both leaning towards the same side. Neither of us is particularly happy with the current regime, and we let it get the best of us.
But remember, we’re both Bears fans, and we both demand success of our team. In that, we’re united.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Ifs...
If you replace all of injured players with healthy ones, wouldn’t that make us significantly better?
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Admittedly
I did.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 20, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
Sharper and Faneca...
Two starters are better than two of our backups. Who would have thunk it?
But I am sure you feel you have a greater appreciation for Bears management than Drew Rosenhaus, who btw had no motive to lie.
When have I ever made such a claim? I’m the one on the side of the argument that claims to know less about football than the people who get paid to know football.
And I’m not against seeing some big-time free agents brought in. But you’re original argument about them being cheap is incorrect. They do “pay players,” just not in the method you prefer. That’s all I’m saying.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 19, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
They have to throw money into the D-Line every year.
Because the head coaches defensive scheme is predicated on the Defensive Line playing above-average to great football.
Don’t blame it on putting money into the line, blame it on underdeveloped players, if anything.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
that premise warrants below average play by the secondary.... hello Josh Bullocks and Danieal Manning
To some extent I realize the importance of pressure on the QB for our defense to work, but Peanut is decent and everybody else in the secondary is atrocious. Analogous to a crappy car with shiny rims (rims being the DL)
I'm not saying it's a positive for the rest of the defense.
It definitely has detrimental effects. While I may not agree, it seems that Angelo and Smith are still holding onto the idea that if they fix the Dline, everybody else will automatically be fine. Which is true for some of those players, (Urlacher, Briggs), it isn’t necessarily instant for others (Bullocks, Vasher)
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
You're arguing a point
that I’m largely agreeing with you on. I’m saying, it seems that in the minds of the people in charge, that’s what they’re doing.
While coverage sacks do occur in the NFL, good WRs that have all day will find a way to get open, and good quarterbacks will find them.
Still, I’m telling you, man, you and I largely agree—there’s a lot of room for improvement on this team.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Vanden Bosch
would be a nice fit, cause the Bears have had interest in the past I believe. He definitely fits the scheme very well.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I read somewhere
that Kampman is pretty old too, and coming off a big injury like that. we’d be just as likely to resign Ogun at this point. i’d rather pay Peppers and inordinate amount of money
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Jan 19, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Me too
They have plenty of money; sign the guy and hope for a motivated Peppers under Marinelli’s tutelege.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
It's a long shot
But boy would a FA signing like that turn some attitudes around… Including mine.
Most definitely
They need to make a splash on defense/line after the Adams’ tragedy.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Sound right up the Bears alley
Throw in the injury last year, check off over pay, and you meet all of JA’s requirements.
I thought Ray Edwards was an unrestricted FA this...
coming season. He would be pricey, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
I will trade you three pretzel's, two bologna sandwiches, and one Lovie Smith for your pudding.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 19, 2010 9:22 AM CST reply actions
I believe he will be a restricted free agent.
I think he signed a four-year deal when he was drafted in 2006.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
That almost certainly rules him out then.
I will trade you three pretzel's, two bologna sandwiches, and one Lovie Smith for your pudding.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 19, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
What should also rule him out
is the fact he plays next to three Pro-bowl linemen. Although, he did abuse Columbo yesterday.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I think three sacks
is a pretty good beat down.
I will trade you three pretzel's, two bologna sandwiches, and one Lovie Smith for your pudding.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 19, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
I think a call needs to be made to Nolan ASAP
I would welcome that addition. Not a Tampa 2 guy per say so maybe some nudging to lose it when sorry Lovie, if it starts not working out again.
Plus we get another stick it to Denver (which is always welcomed while they are picking in the draft this year. . . . cough bring Marshall to Chicago too. . . cough)
Your Nolan post is a bit misleading
I read this article last night, but was happily surprised to see an update this morning (at least I thought). The Bears haven’t shown interest and he’ll be signed before the sloth-like Smith even reacts.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Misleading indeed... Lovei Smith will have zero interest in Nolan.
No matter how successful Nolan was last season, and in the past. It’s a sad truth… no flexibility on this team.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Hey now, I didn't mean to mislead.
A high quality defensive coordinator became available, and I said he’d be a tantalizing candidate.
Then shortly afterwards, i said another team is already clawing at him. What’s so misleading? wink wink
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Ok
Less misleading, and more selective interpretation by yours truly.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I do like the idea of bringing in Tomlinson.
We at least need a back up plan. I think him and Forte would compliment each other nicely.
I will trade you three pretzel's, two bologna sandwiches, and one Lovie Smith for your pudding.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 19, 2010 10:24 AM CST reply actions
Well
This is true, but he’d probably command a salary that’s well beyond what he deserves. There’s no doubt he’s on the decline and not playing well at all, and the Chargers are almost certainly going to cut him because it’s not worth paying millions of dollars to a guy on the downside of his career. If we can get him without a significant dent in salary cap space, then go for it. Otherwise, the Bears should be focusing on other players who would have the same (low) expectations as LT for a lot cheaper.
Yep
I’d much rather have Chester Taylor. I know I’ve name-dropped him several times, but he’s much younger, more elusive, and catches the ball out of the backfield better. There are several other RBs I’d rather have on the Bears than LT.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Plus... we take away from our rival.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
We had Jones and Benson during our SB run
And right now… the Jets have Jones and Greene.
We built a team that got there, and instead of enhancing it, we dismantled it by removing good football players and coaches that our braintrust thought they could easily replace.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
my favorite rb to pick up
this off-season would be Chester Taylor. No matter what, it would be nice to have a veteran reguardless. I think you are probably correct on LT wanting more $$ than he is worth.
I will trade you three pretzel's, two bologna sandwiches, and one Lovie Smith for your pudding.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 19, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
damn..propheteer beat me to the punch
I will trade you three pretzel's, two bologna sandwiches, and one Lovie Smith for your pudding.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 19, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry
Hey, at least we’re in agreement though!
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
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