Why all the Hester the Wideout Hate?
by jay42 on Jan 25, 2010 12:52 PM CST
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PrintSo I've had enough of all the bad talk about Devin as a wideout. I don't understand why its out there so much. The media once agin plays a huge role in this imo. It seems as though they keep saying its a bad move when I haven't seen anything over the past 1.5 seasons to suggest thats true. In 2009/2010 he:
1.) ran decent routes
2.) showed he has hands by making more than couple of good grabs
3.) had a couple of back to back 100 yard games
4.) seemed to return to form as a punt returner (can't blame him for flags by teammates)
The only problem was he was our #1 wr & he is not a #1. As a #2 with a big guy as your #1, he is a all out weapon at wr. Keep in mind the return game as far as kickoff is good without him(Knox & Manning).
Help me understand the haters please
This FanPost was written by a Windy City Gridiron member, and does not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of its staff or community.
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I believe that a large part of it stems from two things.
1. The degradation of Devin Hester’s return ability.
2. The Devin Hester project has set back the development and acquisition of other Wide Receivers.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
agreed but...
he bounced back as a returner this year (punt) & as I said the KOR is just fine with manning & Knox
"just fine"
I think people’s problems are there is a difference between “just fine” and game changing. Devin Hester was a game changer in the return game and a threat to score every kick-off. Look at Cribbs for Cleveland STILL putting up crazy return numbers and having a partial role in the offense. Manning and Knox had a “just fine” return average but nothing to brag about and not Hester-esque.
I’d rather have the other Devin at WR. I don’t think Hester or any of our WRs responded well while Jay was getting pressured.
Just Fine?
In Green Bay our management views Will Blackmon as a game changer while he is not even half the player Manning or Knox are, Knox returned multiple punts/kickoffs for touchdowns so I don’t know what does not make him a game changer even if he is less than consistent as a rookie would be expected to be.
degradation or failure up front
he had a lot of success in the return game BECAUSE of his VISION and HIS TEAM MATES…there is no i in team or return squad. one player doesnt make it.its the team effort.
Bring back our honey bears...sick and tired of hearing about the dallas cowboy cheerleaders and the bars they go work at when they quit. cold weather + cheerleaders in skimpy outfits = lots of fun
The haters base it on the lack of a #1
At least that would be my guess.
He has transitioned well but does not seem to have the “fight” for the ball comeback skills or imposing force to be the #1.
I think Bears fans like Hester and appreciate his transition, many defend his play passionately.
As for the media, of course they hate on him. They do not get the return one man highlight reel and seem to love to hate on anything Bears related. So fuel on the fire.
Very true
Plus, the media and every other Hester basher believes it’s a “given” that if he was just a returner that he would be as successful as he was his first two seasons.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I don't mind Hester as a receiver.
But I would rather see him fielding kickoffs over punts.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 25, 2010 1:22 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Seriously?
He’s not a straight-line runner. That’s one attribute a kick returner should have. Plus, he always had better results on punt returns.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Yes, seriously.
Hester has always worked best in space. When he has time to see the field. As a punt returner, he has little to no time and ends up either running backwards or 50 yards sideways. As a kick returner, he has time to find the holes and hit the burst when needed. I’m not sure how you think his results are better as a punt returner.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 25, 2010 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
Statistically it's tough to compare
but he has 7 career TDs on punts, and 4 on kickoffs. His career average on kickoffs is only 22.7 yards per return, which is not all that impressive. What makes you think he’ll quit dancing on kickoffs? No wedge means less space to run. On punts there’s more space for him to run and vision is better because his blockers are not impeding his view. Plus, I believe kicks are more hazardous cause he’ll get hit from every direction and with greater force. Bigger hits mean more likelihood of injury. Knox and Manning are much better suited for kickoffs based on their one-cut mentality.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
All good points.
It’s not that tough to compare the stats though.
KR – 101 Attempts | 2,297 yards | 22.7 avg | 4 TD | 5 Fumbles
PR – 145 Attempts | 1,636 yards | 11.3 avg | 7 TD | 15 Fumbles
I do like how you put up the average of his kickoff returns, but conveniently left out the average of his punt returns. Sure he has more touchdowns on punts, but I’d take the top stat line every day of the week.
Not to mention that Hester forced kickers to kick the ball out of bounds. Yeah, it happened on punts as well, but that didn’t guarantee the offense the ball at the 40. According to Mike Pereira, Hester caused a 132% increase in kickoffs that went out of bounds. You have to factor that in too.
My opinion’s been formed by more than just stats. From watching the guy, he’s just more effective on kickoffs. How many times did he mismanage balls when they were punted inside the 10? You talk about dancing… he danced a lot more in punt situations than he ever did on kickoffs. Add in the fumbles and…
I love the guy in both capacities, but I prefer him with room to make decisions, find a hole, make a cut and hit the speed burst.
As far as getting injured… I’m not a big fan of the “don’t play a guy where he’s good at because he might get injured” mentality.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 26, 2010 7:36 AM CST up reply actions
Sure
I didn’t put up his punt average cause it’s difficult to compare the two. On one return he has all his blockers in front of him, and the other they’re scattered up and down the field. You talked about him “running in space,” but failed to mention there’s not much space when returning kicks. Typically it’s a one-cut mentality, and that’s not Hester’s strength- his elusiveness is his best asset. Yes, he displayed the ability early in his career, but doesn’t go north-south enough to warrant the change. Why would the Bears take off Knox and Manning? They’ve showed the ability to return for very high averages while Devin has not.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Then why put up the stats at all?
You’re cherry picking the numbers. And you’re going to compare purposefully leaving out his PR stats to me leaving out the obvious? Of course there’s little space to work with when returning punts, so what? That’s exactly why I think he’s better suited to be handling KO’s.
I’m not advocating to take Manning/Knox of KR. Just stating that (I believe) he’s better at one over the other. I’m not so sure he would have done worse than the other two, given the opportunity.
And Hester was anything but your “typical” kick returner.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 26, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
My bad
I meant there’s more space on punts than kickoffs. Usually, on kickoffs you have defenders are running down in lanes with blockers in front of them. More lanes covered means less space to run. On the contrary, during punts the returner can see most of the defenders coming to take his head off, and can dictate their movements by “juking” or by going east and west. This, IMO, is what Hester does the best.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I don't hate Hester, I hate the way he's being used.
The greatest kick returner ever. EVER. With the ability to magically get us amazing field position and change to complexion of the game, if not win it outright. And we try to change that?
His duties should be as follows:
1. Return kickoffs and punts.
2. Run the fly/go/deep post route from the slot. In fact, don’t even try to teach him the offense. Just throw him in the game a few plays a series and have Cutler tell him his route every time.
In addition, the Bears should spend a little extra coin and sign some special teams aces to block for him like when we had Ayanbadejo and others making things happen.
Result? 6 ST TDs, best starting field position in the NFL by FAR, and 550 yards receiving with another 5 TDs and an average of 25 yards/catch.
Ok, I exaggerated the YPC, but that is who he should be. The most dynamic guy on the field not named Cutler. The game changer. The Windy City Flyer.
+1.....Meanwhile....
Had Hester been developed as the natural CB he was drafted as, with his skill set, he might well be starting opposite Tillman. The guy has the playmaking ability, the speed to correct his mistakes and the hips and quickness to be a true cover corner. less time learning a new position means more time with the ST coaches, so better returns as well.
Instead of an average receiver and an average PR, he might have been a good corner and a “ridiculous” returner.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you
I think when you have guys like Hub Arkush once a week on the air saying that he’s not a WR it helps shape the opinions of fans. I mean that’s just a ridiculous statement to make and it’s not fair. I think he had a good year but I will agree with Hub on this, I do think he’s being used wrong. I see no reason why this guy can’t be used like Reggie Bush or Percy Harvin. I think Hester should be our 3rd running back. Let him have some plays at WR but use him in the backfield as well and give him back his KR duties.
I don’t like the abuse he gets for supposedly being dumb and not being a #1 WR. This kid was about to literally moonwalk to the Hall of Fame after 3 years in the NFL and the Bears, no one else, ruined the kid because they had to pay him his worth. It’s the same crap Joshua Cribbs is going through. These guys actually paid the price for being so good at their position that they out-priced the market. That’s not Hester’s fault. I think he’s done pretty well considering the circumstances.
Maybe dumb people need to get their opinions off tools like Hub Arkush ...
…the same Hub Arkush who had ‘inside information’ that Lovie was gone and someone like Cowher was coming in ….. remember ? But all I know is we had a great return man, he took up the spot of #1 receiver and hasn’t done squat. Literally. Isn’t picking up the intricacies of the receiver position and is NOT DANGEROUS anymore. We cut 6’3 vet receiver Brandon Rideau to keep Hester in the position and Iglesias on the roster. hard to believe.
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 26, 2010 3:12 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 26, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
third year gets you vet status in my book - especially compared to Knox/Bennett/Iglesias
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 28, 2010 3:57 AM CST up reply actions
If 3 years on the practice squad makes you a vet
there are a crap ton of veterans without a job these days…
I hated the move to WR
b/c its arrogant to say you can take a guy who’d never played WR before and turn him in a true #1.
By doing this they took a great returner and turned him into a mediocre wideout. When the best praise everyone seems able to come out with is “decent routes and hands”…. well, theres a problem there.
I wish they’d left him at return guy and MAYBE built a package of plays on offense for him. A little wildcat, some screens, a “go” route…. but meh. They didn’t ask me.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
thats 2 of 3 so whats your point?
route running & hands are 2 of 3 things a good wr must have. The 3rd being intangables.
+1 JoeCB
I think the point is
that “decent” is the best adjective we’re seeing.
When he was returning the ball, phenomenal was the adjective we were seeing.
Now, by no means do I believe he’d still be returning kickoffs and punts at that level, but to think that he never does anymore often makes my heart hurt.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Exactly
they took “ridiculous” or “great” and made it “decent” or “good”.
No way he would’ve kept that rate up, but instead of throwing him fully into offense and taking him off what made him such a steal, they could have made him a Cribbs type package where he gets the ball and gets to make plays WITHOUT being asked to shoulder a load everyone except the staff seems to know he’s not ready for.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Have you ever watched a Browns game
Cribbs has to shoulder WAYYY more than Hester ever does on offense and he does just fine. The point is youre assuming that he would return 6 Kicks a year if he just did that alone, and you just cant say that. For one NO ONE will ever do that again and two they stopped kicking to him at the backend of the his 2nd season and the first 8 games of his third season and that was the whole reason that he was moved to offense because if he was just on kickoffs and tearing it up, they would just kick away from him.
"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Yes Cribbs has to shoulder a big load on the Browns
Thats because his team is crap and he is by a mile the best player on that team.
I don’t know how anyone could say the same about Hester. He’s not the best on offense. And he’s not even the best Devin on the roster.
And if you actually read my comment you’d see “No way he’d keep up that rate” so stop telling me what I assume when it demonstrably untrue.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
When you say shoulder
Do you mean gadget and trick plays? Those are much easier to learn than the entire route-tree, and the nuances of defenses and their secondary. I can almost guarantee you that Hester knows almost the entire playbook, where as Cribbs has about a dozen or so plays specifically designed for him only.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
+1!!!!!!
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
Don't care about whether Cribbs is able to take on other roles while still
being a good return man. Hester has struggled with it.
Also, teams did start game planning for Devin in his second season. And he still killed them whenever he touched the ball. Even when he didn’t touch it, he still had an effect on our starting field position.
There is no reason to think that he wouldn’t take six combined punts and kickoffs back if we had left him there. Go back and watch the film. His play wasn’t on accident, or mostly because of the team around him (although it contributed to it overall) His vision, speed, and agility made him electric. Opposing teams can’t game plan that away any more than they can game plan to disrupt Peyton Manning.
Getting Devin less plays on offense makes him more deadly as a slot weapon also. Remember late in some games in 07 when we were down by a score, and a fresh Devin would line up against a tired CB. It felt electric. Teams knew what was happening, but Devin would blow right by the coverage, and Griese would hurl it as far as he could. Now imagine that scenario with a more accurate, stronger armed Cutler.
Not sure about that
I’ve seen him run plenty of good inside routes, hitches, curls, etc. I think his problem is his instincts in traffic; he needs to learn to be more aggressive going for the ball. I believe he’ll continue to grow, because his numbers have increased every year he’s been a full-time WR. ’10 will be his third year, which by all accounts is the year the proverbially lights turn on.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I totally agree
If he had been kept as a primary return guy and numbers dropped off for whatever reason,these people denying his skills as a good wide out would be calling for Angelo’s and Lovie’s head so as to complain about not having Hester be a part of the offense.
I like Hester as a reciever.He’s made strides in his new position,and with the growth he’s made in 2 years,there’s no reason to believe he won’t continue.Do I believe he should be on the field as much?No,but I think he can be utilized both as a return guy and a reciever.
You're being very Un-Dude right now.
by IslandBoodler87 on Jan 26, 2010 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Instincts don't magically appear the 3rd year
especially not since its looking at being a new system.
And thats the year the lights may turn on for incoming WRs… i doubt its the year for someone who’d never been asked to do it before. But…. what do I know.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Typically WRs in the NFL
learn how to play the position well by their third year. That’s not to say everyone of them turns out to be good, but certainly Hester has the talent and has shown the ability to progress these past two seasons. I thought he’d have a “breakout” season this past year, but because of injuries and an inconsistent offense he ended the year with a fizzle.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Don't mind him as a reciever, I just don't think he should be the #1.
Aromashodu should be the #1 guy now.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
I can't stand band-wagoner fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.
still a threat on every punt return
so I’m hearing the down as a returner theory. Can’t agree with that one. Last year(08/09) he did suck as a returner but I think it was due to drinking his own “kool aid”. Think about why he sucked, it was due to dumb stuff like reversing field when it wasn’t there. This year he got back to an every return TD threat and was often kicked away from for that reason. I think 2 ret TDs were called back. Keep in mind1 return TD in a season is considered good as most guys don’t get 1. & please people stop saying the guy is runied. He lead the team in avg per catch, had 57 catches and 750+ yards in like 11-12 games, can only remember him droping about 3-5 balls(all wr’s drop a few) & did this on an offense with NO threat of a running game. Although not a #1, at this point he is a starting NFL wideout. Trust your own eyes
Still a threat on Punts ? Where are the TDs then ?
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 26, 2010 3:06 AM CST up reply actions
2 called back
& that’s not his fault, all he can do is put it in the endzone
On a side note
Anyone checked out his twitter?
He has a firm grasp on the English language that is for sure.
Hester isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Watch any interview he’s been in.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 25, 2010 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
Which is exactly why he gets all the hate.
Because people want to call him out like hes dumb just cause he doesnt talk like hes CEO of Intel or something, but no one wants to credit him for not being one of those me me me look at me, chad ochocinco, types, which after his first 2 years he could have.
"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
great point
hes a guy that hasn’t had run ins with the law either
I'm with you
His numbers, NFL trends for WRs, and his good work ethic all point to him being successful for many years to come.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I think we should demote Hester
…back to special teams. We have a log jam at WR, and Hester just complicates it all. I think we should move Bennett up to #1 reciever, Knox as #2, and let DA and Iglesias battle it out for the slot reciever.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Putting him back on Special Teams isn't a demotion, it's an entire phase of the game ...
…and one in which we have lost starting field position and touchdowns because of the receiver experiment.
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 26, 2010 3:07 AM CST up reply actions
Well then
If the Bears did that he would ask to be traded, so really it’s a moot point cause he’s won’t be.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Hester never had a couple back to back 100 yard games.
He never even had one set of back to back 100 yard games. He only had one game where he broke 100 yards and it was against Cincinnati this season. I still think he’s growing into a good wideout but I really wouldn’t be opposed to trading him if we could get some real value out of it.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 25, 2010 7:52 PM CST reply actions
oops
ok so it was 4 straight 80 yard plus games, he also had 12 receptions for 20+ yards 3 for 40+ yards and 34 1st downs. Knox at this pint is more raw than Hester & although Bennett is a good possession guy he aint a #1? Hester isn’t either but Bennett? dude watch more ball please
What the hell are you talking about telling me to watch more ball?
Where’s all this Bennett and Knox talk coming from? Did I say anything about that?
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 25, 2010 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
so I wasn't speaking to yo
You’re right you didn’t say that about Knox and Bennett so you should know that part wasn’t for you. I was speaking to you about the yardage. I was speaking to the poster,GouldisGold about those guys.(see his post just above yours)
Then hit reply on his name and say it.
I know your new at this but thats how things work, our posts weren’t combined.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 26, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
dude is gonna be a legit WR
as a whole this offense blows. In his rookie year the Vikings have a better idea of how to use Harvin than the Bears do with Hester. Similar situation with Desean Jackson in Philly. It ain’t rocket scientology and it ain’t reinventing the wheel to come up with or steal plays that effectively get the ball in the hands of playmakers.
I know Martz isnt too popular on here, but i think the hire of Martz would lead to a much better use of Hester. and IMO more Hester more Ws
Yep
and I guess people forget the start Hester got off to this year. Only an injury and struggling offense prevented him from putting up Pro-bowl stats. He was on pace to have 70 rec, 1,000 yds, and 6 TD before the wheels fell off the offense and his injury.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
On Pace for 6 TDs ...?
Our #1 receiver ? 6 TDs. … really……. oooohhhhh !!
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 26, 2010 3:05 AM CST up reply actions
When you play on the Bears pathetic offense
that’s still pretty darn good. Again, never said he was a #1 WR. Please have more patience, cause this will be his 3rd year ever as a WR.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
For the love of baby Jebus ...
… we need a tall, physical receiver that Cutler can just chuck it up there for. Shabba is only 6’2 but he can play ball for us, we need a V-Jack or a Brandon Marshall on the other side and use the midgets in the slot.
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 28, 2010 4:02 AM CST up reply actions
yessss buuutttttt
for a #1 that does suck, I said that in the opening. The point here is he is not a bad wr just not a #1. He would even be a weapon as a #2 to a big guy or used as a slot guy.
Never said he was a #1
He’s fine where he’s at.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
The offense blows because of players like Hester ...
HE DOESN’T BLOCK !!!! He takes entire plays off, if the ball isn’t going to him, he doesn’t want to know …
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 26, 2010 3:04 AM CST up reply actions
agreed
Hester actually did a great job of outside blocking, and I seem to remember it being pointed out in a couple of broadcasts, though I cannot remember for sure which games.
by HateMe2Morrow on Jan 28, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
I Will Give 2 Simple Reasons Why I Drink The Haterade.
1. Devin Hester, the most feared Kick Returner in the history of the NFL. The only Kick Returner having film study and game plans orchastrated to keep the ball out of his hands on a game to game basis. Teams actually directional kicking out of to give the Bears 1st an 10 at their own 40 Yard line. At that time we had Bad Rez though but we still made a Super Bowl run with that system.
2. Ron Turner and Lovie have a brainstoming session the next of season. Ron says to Lovie………..Hey! I know a way we can get the ball into Hesters hands all game long. We will make him an average NFL receiver so we can get him the ball more often. Lovie responds………Ron! That is the best idea I ever heard come from your mouth and the rest is history. As the beer commercial state……………………BRILLIANT! sorry to see your gone Ron. Lovie……….are you still there?
So had he gotten to 1000 yards would you still be calling him "average" ??
"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Like most people, we don't get to see his work rate ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Jiv_MawMA
Watch and learn, welcome to the lazy life of Devin Hester. I mean if they wanted to get the ball in his hands, make him run down the field first at least. He is NOT a good route runner (we don’t have a good route runner), he is taking up a better receiver’s starting spot.
by Irish Bears Fan on Jan 26, 2010 3:03 AM CST reply actions
LOL
All the Bears receivers are Midgets except DA. And he’s not really that big..compared to guys like a Marshall or Andre Johnson etc etc.
by Chitownproduct on Jan 26, 2010 4:19 AM CST up reply actions
1 last thing we're forgeting
$, it is a business when it comes down to it boys & in business you don’t throw aroud a decent amount of you bugget(cap space in the NFL) on a small area even if it is productive. Had the Bears let him go when he wanttted more money most of you would have gone to halas hall with torches and ropes. In business you do what the Bears did, you find additional ways to get production from that small area you threw the money at. With that in mind you can’t fault the Bears for trying. If he was sucking as a wr like he was in year 1 at the spot then I would get the hatting but he isn’t. Like propheteer said, without the injury, he goes for over 1,000 yards & has some of you seem to forget, he also had 2 punt ret TD’s called back so so much for your returner theory.
The Bears need to be realistic about Hester
he will never be a #1 WR. At the very best he is a Willie Gault kind of receiver, not a top receiver but a dangerous one. If DA, Bennett and Knox continue to get better and or they get a top WR in the offseason, they have the luxury of moving Hester back to being a full time return guy again and forget the WR thing.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
or the football acumen
or the elusiveness, or the ability to return kicks/punts, or make a tough catch in traffic (see Seattle game).
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Maybe so, but that does not mean Hester will suddenly become a true #1
Like Gault, Hester is a dangerous receiver, not a great one, nor is he likely to become a great one. That does not mean he could not be useful as a WR. Gault certainly was.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 27, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
So I have a question for the Hester defenders:
Why ask why those of us less sold feel the way we do? Especially when you’re only responses have thus far been “watch more ball” or “he’ll come around for real this year”?
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I asked
because the arguements I had heard untill making the thread I had an opion that countered. I have seen on this board/blog arguments on other topics that gave me food for thaought and figured maybe there was something I was missing. I did tell 1 guy to watch more ball as he said Benett should be out #1 and thats just sooooo far off imo. Other than to him I have come back with stats to back up my defense of him as a wr. REMBER I said he is a wr not a #1.
This is what pisses me off about Hester Haters
This might be the ONLY guy on the team since the Super Bowl started to never disappoint. Lets just scroll through it,
2006- Helps lead a team to a Super Bowl with 6 returns for TDs and 1 in the Super Bowl.
2007- Returns 6 TDs again while starting to learn the WR position for the first time since High School (Not an easy task). And also had 30 catches for 300 yards and 2 TDs receiving as the #3 receiver behind VETERANS Muhammed and Berrian.
2008- Catches more than twice as many balls with 51 catches and twice as many yards with 665 and 3 TDs as the “#1” WR in only his second year of not only playing but learning the position of WR at the highest of levels, yet still improving as a WR even without veterans like Moose and Berrian. Note: As the #1 you have to take on all the other teams #1 DBs and some double teams, not too easy.
This is also the year when all those amazing returns stopped working as well. And I would note a few reasons. The biggest reason would be the absence of Brendan Ayanbedejo who we let go in that offseasaon, who was a key component in almost all of Hesters returns up to that point. The 2nd reason is if you remember, is that for the first 8 games they absolutely were not kicking it to him and it was visibly frustrating Hester to the point were he was pressing and running backwards and sideways and all sorts of ways anytime he would actually get a chance. And the 3rd reason would be an injury week 2 of that season, he strained his ribcage on a return against Carolina. He just never got his groove back to the point to where he was taken off kickoffs.
2009- Hester goes into the year as not only the #1 WR for the Bears, again, but as the mentor to this athletic but also young and inexperienced WR corps with the likes of Knox, Bennett, and eventually Aromashadu. And let me tell you from being at Training Camp almost everyday, Hester really took the reigns with these young guys, almost everyday they were the last unit to leave the practice field and you could really notice him taking a leadership role.
And if you asked me the WRs were the ONLY bright spot on the team this year that actually showed improvement over last year. Were they perfect, NO, but bumps in the road are going to come with young guys at times but for the most part Hester, Knox, and Bennett all had about 50 catches. And with Aromashadu they all combined for 16 TDs this year.
Not to mention the fact that Aromashadu only played the last few games and Hester missed 3 games with an injury which stopped him from possibly getting to 1000 yards on the year being only 240 yards short of that goal. And isnt that how we establish good WRs from bad ones, whether or not they can ascertain the 1000 yard barrier??
As far as returns, in the preseason Hester had a big return against Denver that looked like it could potentially spark him into the season. As far as TD returns it did not, but I would argue that he actually had a much better season than last year on returns even without the TDs. At one point in the season he had 4 straight punt returns over 20 against the Lions and the Falcons and he also broke one against Cleveland that was called back that was bullsh*t.
And at the end of the year against he Lions he almost broke one on a Kickoff which he hadnt done in over a year. He showed me that he still has it in him, he definitely improved over last season by just getting positive upfield yardage and he only had 24 Punt returns to work a season low for him unlike his first two years when he was getting well over 40 opportunities.
The point is this guy has improved and shown you something every year. He set the bar extremely high after his first two years which shouldnt be a detriment to him considering he will be the first and last player to EVER even sniff 6 return TDs in a season. And then forming into a SOLID wideout when he has not played the position since being in High School without the help of veterans around him.
"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
has anyone
ever called you a wise man? great job
+1
I have no hate for Hester, and I think he has done more than could be rightfully asked. I do, however, ahve a belief in my heart that, with his skill set, he could have been developed into a top tier CB and our defense would have been better of for it than the offense is advanced by having him. No guarantees, of course, but he wouldn’t have had his learning curve stunted by a position change, and his skill set is extreme for a corner.
I just don’t get the guys who blame Devin for any of this. hester has done nothing but was asked of him, including learning a new position while at the NFL level, which is insane considering the complexity of the WR role. The move baffled me, especially after the Bears saw a decnt corner become a below average receiver with Rasheed Davis, and Davis had previous WR experience in Arena. Would it have been better fro Hester to buck the switch?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
I love Hester...but
Hester is not a “proto-typical” #1 receiver like a Randy Moss…he lacks the height.
With that said, he can be a very effective and dangerous #2 WR like a Wes Welker.
I feel this “Hester Hateraid” is derived from the fact that our Coaches and GM are trying to force Hester into this #1 role(insert square peg/round hole comment here). If we look at Hester as a Moss type WR people say he is a failure…I say as a Welker type WR he is a success.
Hopefully DA can continue to improve and become a viable option for our #1 WR. For the first time in quite a while I’m actually not worried about the state of the Bears WR’s.
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
we know he's not a #1
thats not the point! The point is people act like he sucks when he is better than avg. They say he cant return anymore when he did very well at it this year & people forget it takes blocking. He was moved to wr because you cant have a guy count aginst the cap like he does while only touching the ball a couple of times a game(the stoped kicking to him).
You Know Why He's Not A Number 1?
Because he is and always be a number 3 at best in the Wide Receiver position. A Defensive back drafted out of college.. I welcome the day when we can ALL admit this. And for the record I do not hate Devin Hester. I just think he was put in a position to fail.
My 2 cents:
1. His return game is not what it used to be
2. He may run better routes, but he is not acting like a receiver. Meaning that when Cutler scrambles, he doesn’t come back to the ball well at all (none of the WR did this well last year).
3. He is not a #1, and I don’t think he is a good #2 either. He is best as a slot guy, kinda like he was 3 years ago. I think we need a BIG WR for redzone, a WR that catches everything thrown to him (Wes Welker like), and a blazer for a slot guy. Hester/Knox would fit the slot very well, but they are not #1/#2 type of WR.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 28, 2010 1:53 PM CST reply actions
4. He catches the ball against his body too often as well
He doesn’t just reach out and grab the ball like a guy with good hands will do.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 28, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
agree to disagree about body catches
using his hands to catch the ball is one of his better wideout traits imo. My question to you is,
Do you think he is or is not a NFL receiver at this point?
I did not ask if he was a #1NFL wr. IF you’re answer is no please tell why & with some kind of proof. The guy was a injury away from being a 1,000 yard wr in the nfl & this as a midget as some one called him.
An Injury Away?
What in the heck are you talking about Jay? It became abundantly clear that with Hester out of the Line up and Aromashodu in we were a better football team. How did we find this out? Hester had to get injured, that’s how. However if you look at my post leading up to the start of the season I was calling for Aromashodu all Year. And so was Jay Cutler. So the bottom line is there are more talented Receivers on the roster than Hester. I’m sorry if people can’t admit that or disagree with it.
Im talking about being 243 yards
Im talking about being 243 yards away from a 1,000 yard receving season in the NFL, while missing 3 games and being limited in at least 1 other game. And, why cant I like DA & Hester? As of now I like those guys to be our starters next season. All I’ve been trying to show is how Hester realy hasn’t shown he cant be a wr. Hes done pretty good for himself. I just think people say this because he had to be our #1 wr when he not good enough for that role.
Until he does #2 in my original post better
He will never be a viable #2 in my book.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 29, 2010 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Im talking about being 243 yards
away from a 1,000 receving season in the NFL while missing 3 games and being limited in at least 1 other game. And, why cant I like DA & Hester? All I’ve been trying to show is how Hester realy hasn’t shown he cant be a wr. Hes done pretty good for himself. I just think people say this because he had to be our #1 wr when he not good enough for that role.
243 yards over 3 games
That equals 81 yards/game. For the season, Hester averaged 58.2 yards per game. So you are saying that he would outperform his season averages to reach 1,000. Even if you say the limited game doesn’t count, that is 60.75 yards/game, which is about his average. The other problems is that he had 3 games where he had only 1 catch. How can he be considered a top WR if he has that many bad games?
He performs best on the long balls/gains, which is why he needs to be a slot receiver. Not a #1, not a #2, but a #3. I feel that DA and Bennet should be #1/#2, and Hester and Knox in the as our slot reveivers.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 29, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
knew this was coming
I’m saying he was on a role when he got hurt so he looked very likly(4 straightr 5+ rec., 80+yard gms)
I give up
the haters have beaten me into submission
We Give Up Too Jay.
When all is said and done we will see how this thing pans out. The proff is in the pudding as they say.
I'm not fully a hater
I just hate where our coaching has put him. They tried to make him something he is not.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 29, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
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