Chicago Bears All Decade Offense: QB
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 10:00 AM CST
in Notes
159 comments
This the second installment of the Chicago Bears All-Decade Offense - 2000's Edition. The QB position, as has been the case most of our Bears' lives, has been a resounding disappointment. Hopefully the 2010's will be much better with Jay Cutler at the helm. Here is a list of the Bears' QB's who have started a game from 2000-2009:
Shane Matthews, Cade McNown, Jim Miller, Chris Chandler, Henry Burris, Kordell Stewart, Jonathan Quinn, Craig Krenzel, Chad Hutchinson, Kyle Orton, Rex Grossman, Brian Griese, & Jay Cutler.
Our All-Decade QB's for the 2000's are...
1.) Rex Grossman
The "best" of an awful group. What more can we say about Rex? He was the starting QB for the Bears when they went to their only Super Bowl of the decade (2006 season). He started 31 games for the Bears in 6 seasons. He compiled a record of 19-12. He was 2-2 in the playoffs, for an aggregate record of 21-14 as a starter. His regular season stats with the Bears:
521 completions on 962 attempts for a 54.1 completion percentage. He threw for 6,164 yards and 33 touchdowns vs. 35 interceptions, resulting in a 70.2 QB Rating.
His start to the 2006 season had some folks talking MVP actually. In those first 5 games he threw for 1,243 yards (249 yd/g), 10 td's, and only 3 ints to lead the Bears to a 5-0 start. That season he had 7 games with a QB Rating greater than 100; all Bears' wins. He also had 5 games with a QB Rating below 40: 2 wins & 3 losses.
The fact remains, that Rex was the QB when the Bears went to the Super Bowl; he had some outstanding performances during that run. He's the QB of the Decade in my book.
2.) Kyle Orton
In 4 seasons with the Bears, Orton compiled a 21-12 record. Very impressive. He won 10 games as the starter in 2005. He had a very impressive start to the 2008 season until an ankle injury caused him to miss a game. In 3 seasons' worth of starts (Orton did not play in 2006 at all, Rex & Griese took all the snaps) he completed 505 passes out of 913 attempts for a completion percentage of 55.3%. He threw for 5,319 yards with 30 touchdowns vs. 27 interceptions. His QB Rating over that span was 71.1. He has never played in the playoffs.
3.) Jim Miller
From 2000-2002, Miller started 23 games for the Bears compiling a record of 14-9. He threw for 4,625 yards with 455 completions on 791 pass attempts (57.5%). He had 27 touchdowns vs 20 interceptions. His Chicago Bears QB rating (including 1999 stats) was 76.7. He played in 1 playoff game in 2001; a loss to the Eagles in which he completed 3/5 passes for 23 yards and had 1 interception. He was unable to finish the game and Shane Matthews could not lead a comeback.
Honorable Mention
Jay Cutler only played 1 season in the 2000's for the Bears. He had 27 passing touchdowns, but also had 26 interceptions. He threw for 3,666 yards with a completion % of 60.5 & QB Rating of 76.8.
Interesting note: the ONLY 1 of 2 Quarterbacks in the 2000's to post a QB Rating above 80 for a season was the immortal Cory Sauter (who?). In 2002, he played 1 game; he was 6 of 9 for 59 yards, no TD's or INT's, for a QB Rating of 85. Those are his NFL career numbers too. Wikipedia entry on him: LINK. He's the Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks coach for the Southwest Minnesota State Mustangs. GET THIS GUY ON THE PHONE! He's the OC we've been waiting for!!!!
In 2002, Chris Chandler posted a 79.8 QB Rating in 9 games played. In 2008, Orton posted a 79.6 QB Rating in 15 games.
UPDATE: Jeff Blake in the 2005 season finished 8/9 for 55 yards and 1 TD for a season QB Rating of 129.2. Helmet Tip to D Reinstein for the correction.
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Obviously Rex was good for a limited part of his time here
but his inconsistency made it impossible to rely on his or pay him as a starter. He was injury prone and basically had one good miracle year. Its kinda astonishing looking back to see how flukey it was. Orton has been far more consistent as a starter, even if it is just above mediocre. I don’t really know if Grossman can bounce back, maybe if he goes to a team like the Bills, they will be more patient for him. I think the bears, as in most teams, need to win by establishing a strong run game, which we had in 2006. Cutler may be the next Dan Marino, but Marino never won a super bowl either.
Why...
do you always reply (with unrelated responses) to the first post on the page? Is your scroll wheel broken?
Seriously, most people can’t figure out how to use the reply button. You, can’t figure out how not to use it. I promise, if you post further down, people will read it.
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by David Taylor on Jan 28, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
31 games in 6 seasons
makes me want to throw up. Why, exactly, did we spend so long pinning our hopes on him?
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what short memories we have
because early on, when he played, he played well.
-The playoff loss to the panthers, Rex tried to bring us backe bu tour safties refused to cover over the top
-when he returned to play at halftime vs the falcons on a one cold a$$ nite he played great & we came back and won
-the 1st 7 games of the duper bowl season he was the man
yes he turned into Good Rex – Bad Rex but, as org, if you have a young QB, you live for a little whlie with the bad version as you hope the guy will grow out of it. The problem was, Rex was not head strong enough to deal with the chicago media & therfore could not get over Bad Rex
The panthers game
was not early on. It was after he was injured in his rookie season, and then again in 2004, and then again in 2005.
He’s lucky they continued to wait for him for him to even have the super bowl season. Most teams that had a first round QB pick get broken 3 consecutive years would have walked.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
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Hmm
-the 1st 7 games of the duper bowl season he was the man
He didn’t look like the man in the Monday Night game at Arizona, unless you mean a garbageman.
by Chitownproduct on Jan 28, 2010 2:19 AM CST up reply actions
All Decade QBs list
Isn’t the goal to have just one in a decade? Only the Bears could compile such a list…
Ain't that the truth.
Looking at that list, You talk about picking your poison.
what about the punter?
I seem to recall Brad Maynard throwing the ball pretty well.
Seriously though, Grossman is not #1 – even on our sad list. He’s the only one listed with more INTs than TDs. He did not lead us to the SB, but he did lose it for us.
by MakeHalasProud on Jan 27, 2010 10:37 AM CST reply actions
He's the only Bears QB in the last decade to win a playoff game.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Very true.
Unfortunately, he’s also the only Bears QB to throw two picks in the 4th Q of the Super Bowl in the last decade.
The guy had ups and downs, but ultimately, his downs were worse than his ups were good.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
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He's the only Bears QB in the last 19 seasons to win 2 playoff games
That counts for something. It certainly makes him the QB of the Decade that was god awful for the Bears’ QB position.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Oh I completely agree.
If I’d tried to write it, I would’ve just looked at Grossman and Orton side by side for a while, then I would’ve stopped writing and sat in the corner and cried.
Kudos for making a stand—I’ll agree with you,if not more for the shortcomings of the other QBs of the decade. I refuse to acknowledge that he somehow was the leader of this team to the post season and superbowl, though. I still feel that it was the defense and special teams that made it happen.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
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by Kev H on Jan 27, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I still don't get the
“Rex didn’t lead us to the SB thing” Did he not help us get out to 6-0 when we had NO running game at the start of the year? Did he not play well and throw the big pass to Rashied Davis that help set up the Robbie Gould FG against the Seahawks? Did he not make the big throws on the game winning drive against the Saints like the TD to Berrian?
I know he didn’t play well in the SB. But for people to make it seem like that Defense was the 2000 Ravens and Rex was Trent Dilfer is ridiculous and just unfair. I’ll go one step further… Of the QBs to play in the playoffs that year, Rex played the best. Manning had a HORRIBLE playoff run that year.
Well, for starters,
The first 5 games the opponents scored 39 points total. The Bears defense stepping on people’s throats allowed Rex the opportunity to go downfield, just as much as his going downfield let them attack.
They only get to 6-0 because of the simultaneous perfect performance by the Bears D, and the complete collapse of Matt Leinart.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
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But people can't keep
taking away his contributions to the team having home field advantage throughout the playoffs and getting to the SB. I could have sworn he had a game winning drive in week 2 against the Vikings that year by the way. Love him or hate him he played a part in that team making the SB. And for people to keep making it seem like he was Shaun King or Trent Dilfer isn’t fair. He wasn’t great but give the guy a little credit.
I'm not saying he didn't make some great plays during that time.
But his bad plays were costly, his good plays were usually add-on that season.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Nah
I think people feel like his great plays had no effect on that team making it to the SB and I just listed 2 or 3 moments in which that wasn’t the case. Making a SB in no small feat. Ask Brett Farve who just cost his team after having a hell of a year of Drew Brees who’s been waiting his whole career to get here.
If people can give Orton credit for the wins in ‘05 where he literally was told not to touch the radio in the car just sit back and enjoy the ride then I’m not going to take credit away from Rex making a SB in his first full season at QB when he actually won games in the playoffs.
by Dils on Jan 27, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Bears got to the SB in spite of rex, not because of him.
IMHO if Orton starts the SB, then we win that game.
Really? Cause Orton has never won a playoff game,
in fact, he’s never played in one.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
I know.
I get the whole Rex sucks thing. Whatever. But I’m just don’t get people who don’t want to give the guy ANY credit.
I agree that's something you can't really say with certainty.
Would he have won, I dunno. But it’s hard to fault Orton that the only time he got a full season starting nod with confidence is when the defense is terrible.
He was struggling at that Falcons game, so the Bears put Captain Goinglong in the game. He won that game and the packers game, and they gave up against the Vikes in week 17. Thus he got to start in the playoffs.
You can’t say either way what happens for sure, but I’m willing to bet the Super Bowl can’t have gone much worse. down 5 with a quarter to play, you can’t give the other team points. You just can’t.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
true that is is speculative....
but i really like your point about how regardless of the speculative nature of Orton v. rex in the SB, that it could not have gone much worse.
How does Ron Turner get....
absolved of his sins in the Super Loss?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
meh
if not for the inane “Rex is our quarterback sentiment” which was based not on merits, but on JA’s desire for his 1st round QB pick to be successful, then Orton would have 3 playoff wins and grossman zero. Regardless of what the bears official stance was at the time, history has proven that Orton is the better QB.
Easy to say.....
But Orton was instrumental in the Broncos missing the playoffs this year. Maybe if Rex had been their QB, they would have been there.
Sounds asinine, doesn’t it? About the same as suggesting that a game manager who only has a winning record because of the defense would have brought us a Super Bowl win in ’07.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
oops....'06, lol!
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Cutlers fist season was almost as good as all of Ortons
Orton would not have beat the Saints. I was there and remember it well. Rex played his best game.
by Ryan21 on Jan 27, 2010 11:53 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree.
It certainly makes Rex the Bears’ QB of the Decade. Yes, it’s a very low bar; but 2 playoff wins and comparable stats make it obvious to me.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What about the idea that
Without an offense that can use up some clock, the defense would be exhausted and couldn’t play at the same level for an entire game, let alone an entire season.
If an offense can’t give the defense a breather, the defense can’t keep up the pace.
I feel it’s a two-way street. The defense was great but it only maintained that greatness because of Rex’s abilities.
+1
I’ve always contended that Chicago forever have problems with QB’s. We will always have problems getting free agents to come here because of the media and the fan base. Rex started out hot enough in ‘06 to warrant being Player of the month in September and to garnish early MVP talk. Then cam Arizona. After a truly bad game, the media and fan base shredded Grossman. From that point on Rex had no chance. Every TD was the defenses credit, and every INT was Rex’s.
For the record, Rex didn’t exactly make the best decisions, but Turner’s play calling had just as much to do with the problem. In the super bowl, After Peyton Manning (who calls his own plays) was nearly picked of by Charles tillman in the end-zone, Manning ceased calling the deep ball. Why? It was wet and the conditions didn’t warrant it, and Chicago employed a cover 2 scheme for the Super Bowl that was one of the oddest I have ever seen. Rivera, who called a lot of very good games, flubbed the Super Loss almost as badly as Turner. The intermediate field was open all day, with the Bears seemingly more concerned with the Colts deep-ball potential. Manning took what Chicago gave him and eat the vaunted Chicago D’s lunch.
Meanwhile, once Indy tied the game, Ron Turner misplaced his beta-blockers and panicked. You would think that after watching Peyton discard the deep ball, he would attempt the same. Instead, He called some variation or another of the deep-out 8 times in the second half. Stretching the field is great as a way to keep a defense honest, but Turner’s MO though the year was the same. If the score was tied or the Bears were behind, throw the long ball. The Colts used the same formula that Arizona did earlier in the year and made sure that Thomas Jones was shadowed in the flat, forcing Rex to heave the ball on the run. Now, Rex should have thrown the ball away or taken the sack, but he didn’t. Being the gunslinger that the organization and fan base new he was (comparing him to Favre was common, after all) Grossman did his thing, and Indy waited for it. Turner panicked even more. I have railed for his firing since the Super Loss, but instead the Bears fired the wrong Ron.
I’m not absolving Rex, but he was demonized while Turner got a pass. And I still believe that, had Grossman been drafted by another team, he would have been a good QB.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
sorry but he has now gotten a shot on a different team and can't beat out Matt Schaub.
nor could he beat or Orton at the end of his Bears tenure. It isn’t so much the team as grossman sux.
Hate-on...
Fans and their hate-ons are a large part of what destroyed Rex, and could end up with the same effect on Jay. QBs are about as fragile emotionally as kickers. Once Chicago got on the “Bad Rex” kick after the AZ game in ‘06, Rex was doomed. And Schaub wasn’t exactly making it easy to beat him out. He had a top 10 year, and spent most of the season in the Top 5 QB Power rankings. It’s just silly to play that card.
I have never claimed Rex was a great QB, but anyone who takes the time to watch the tapes can see just how horrid the play-calling was. Rex was broken by the end of the ‘06 campaign. But to ignore Ron Turner’s contribution to that breakdown is just plain blind.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And now a word from our sponsors....
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Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
did you compare schaub and orton?
Schaub is a top 10 qb now his health is his only downfall ortons a manager he cant win games
by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 28, 2010 5:41 PM CST up reply actions
oh Kev H… it’s so sad that you just didn’t see the light back in 2006… That great defense that you say was the “Only” reason Rex was in the superbowl, gave up over 200 yards RUSHING to the COLTS! and gave up enough 10 yard plus pass plays that it was sick. But all you see is the interceptions from Rex. That’s all you want to see. Rex didn’t play great in the SB, but there is NO WAY you can factually say “he LOST the game”- I refuse to believe that.
And frankly we have Jay Cutler now so it’s all history anyway.
ridiculous
I see there are still some Rex lovers out there . . . crazy, but true.
Rex is the only QB I’ve see post a rating of 0. I think he also had a 1.8 that year.
Defense and Devin Hester led us to the SB. Heck, we came back from 20 down to beat AZ without scoring an offensive TD (only time in NFL history that’s been done) — though Rex did help make that possible with his 6 turnovers, so perhaps he does deserve some credit.
Most of Rex’s best plays were poorly thrown balls that Berrian made spectacular catches on.
by MakeHalasProud on Jan 27, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah Ok that sounds fair
It was all an accident I guess. He accidentally tripped, fell and wound up in a SB.
0 rating....
QB’s who have posted a zero rating…..
Bob Griese
Johnny Unitis
Len Dawson
Terry Bradshaw x2
Bobby Douglas
Joe Namath
Archie Manning
Dan Fouts
Warren Moon x2
Jeff Garcia
Eli Manning (Like father like son)
There are actually a lot more…..but I figured this list would suffice.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Sorry....
Bradshaw achieved this feat 3 times!
Joe Namath and Richard Todd both posted 0 rating for the same team in the same game with NFL qualifying statistics (at least 10 passes)
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Rec-ing as extremely interesting
Because I’m lazy and won’t look it up myself, how far along in their careers were these guys?
Answer...
Griese – 2nd year pro
Unitis – 11th year pro
Dawson – 13th year pro
Bradshaw – 1st, 6th and 13th years pro
Douglas – 3rd year pro
Namath – 10th and 12th years pro
A Manning – 4th year pro
Dan Fouts – 3rd year pro
Warren Moon 8th and 9th years pro
Jeff Garcia – 10th year pro
Eli Manning – 1st year pro
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Good jorb.
The first name I thought of was Derek Anderson. Last year against Buffalo, he went 2 for 17, 0TD, 1INT. The Browns scored six points and still won. His rating was around a 1.something though, but that’s where my mind went.
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"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Thomas Jones leaving was terrible for Rex
and Benson never stepped up. We should try to get Jones back from the jets
No we shouldn't.
Price Check on aisle BOOM.
by Ditkavsworld on Jan 28, 2010 7:12 AM CST up reply actions
Cutler is the only one you can make a case for after Grossman....
Please find Jay Cutler some help...
I do not like rex grossman
Good post and all, but…seriously was the picture necessary?!?!
and IMO the fact that even after the era of “Rex Grossman is our quarterback” the coaching staff eventually realized its mistake and in the end Kyle Orton got the starting nod over grossman is evidence for Orton to be #1 on the list.
A big fat no.
Kyle Orton’s stats are slightly better than Rex’s. Only slightly. Rex Grossman was the Bears QB in 2 playoff wins. That has not happened since January of 1991, when Mike Tomczak got his 2nd playoff victory against the Saints ironically. Kyle Orton has NEVER even played in the playoffs. This is not Fantasy Football. Winning does count. Winning in the playoffs counts more.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
cut and pasted from above...
meh
if not for the inane "Rex is our quarterback sentiment" which was based not on merits, but on JA’s desire for his 1st round QB pick to be successful, then Orton would have 3 playoff wins and grossman zero. Regardless of what the bears official stance was at the time, history has proven that Orton is the better QB.
You say this is not Fantasy football, yet you are totally hung up on 1 stat (ala fantasy football peeps) and IMH giving it much more weight than it deserves.
Rex Grossman won 2 playoff games.
In no other stat does Orton blow away Rex. 54% vs 55% completion percentage. 19 regular season wins versus 21. 30 touchdowns vs 33. 35 ints vs 27 (only significant advantage for Orton). 5300 yds vs 6100 (significant advantage to Rex). 70 vs 71 QB rating.
Rex did more. He won 2 playoff games.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I thought this was common knowledge?
j/k.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
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Would be a good argument.......
IF Orton had proven to be statistically better. But he hasn’t. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Orton is actually the one that more closely resembles Dilfer, though. Game manager who’s defense got him wins.
Just sayin’……
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Not so much an argument as it proves a point...
Point being this list is not based on who is the best or better QB, but some algorithm or formula of MuleTrain’s choosing.
No it's based on results
Rex Grossman won playoff games and played in a SUPERBOWL and did it having a better season than Cutler had this year. So by default He’s the QB of the decade.
Two different arguments
Body of work, thus far, as a Chicago Bear, Rex Grossman has been more successful.
Is that going to hold through all time—-of course not—Jay Cutler’s a way more talented fellow.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
that's fine,
but the body of work things is based ONLY on stats and thus is an inaccurate measure of who the Bears’ best QB of the decade actually was.
And what would you have us "measure" by?
Talent is not quantifiable by itself. Unfortunately, it’s quantified by stats, of which Jay WILL have better stats than Rexy. Right now, the stats and successes say Rexy.
Because he's more talented, durr.
Like I just got done saying.
You measure it by stats.
Jay’s Bears stats for the decade do not outshine Rex’s. Key words italicized
this is not fantasy football
saying the person with the best stats is the best QB is a FALSE STATEMENT.
I didn't say Rex IS the best.
Not by a long shot. I believe Jay is the better and will prove to be the better.
Throughout the decade, which quarterback had the most success and had the best stats? Rex accomplished more in the decade than Jay did. Maybe in 2020 Jay will be the best QB in next decade, and if the decade extended just one more year, I bet Jay outdoes Rex’s body of work.
No It All, seriously, try to put talent in terms WITHOUT using the words “stats”, “wins”, “rating”, et cetera. Otherwise, stats are all we have as proof. You’re all hung up on potential and recency effect, man. Quantify potential and talent for me.
simple
I saw them with my own eyes both play for the same team, during the same decade. Jay Cutler was the better quarterback. All the stats in the world will not change that. END OF STORY.
But not really.
They each had completely different talent surrounding them.
I don’t think you’re going to find anyone here who will argue that Jay Cutler is not the better QB. However, framed in the discussion MuleTrain was writing about, YOU HAVE TO USE STATS. END OF STORY.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
right now...
I see Cutler and Grossman having all the same faults. Both make bad decisions, both try to make too much happen with a big arm, and both cost us games with poorly timed mistakes.
What Cutler gave us was a great opportunity to see just how bad Ron Turner was. The Chicago Cutler looked little like the Denver Cutler and an awful lot like Rex Grossman. Remember, Cutler achieved feats of failure this season that even Grossman can’t claim (multiple 4 INT games comes to mind). In the end, I think Cutler is the better QB, but I think the ‘09 season should show a lot of Grossman detractors, who are willing to take an honest look, that Ron Turner was a huge part of Grossman’s failure here.
Thankfully, for Jay, he won’t have to put up with Turner for more than one year. Turner was a QB killer.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll bet.....
That Dan Marino would trade all his stats and records for Trent Dilfer’s ring………..Or anyone else’s, for that matter.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Same can be said for your Orton thrust.....
Your using fumbles at center exchange for an argument Orton. In that case, Dilfer WAS better than Marino. Dilfer also threw far fewer interceptions. You keep propping that Dilfer/Marino argument, all the while making statements that, if applied to Dilfer/Marino, wound make Dilfer the better QB……
Doesn’t make much sense.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
No It All
Would you rather have had Dan Marino’s stats for your team, or Trent Dilfer’s Ring? Do you think the Marino would switch?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
wait
how did grossman have a better season than cutler???
cutler never had a 0 qb rating.
Makin' Copies
And Grossman...
never threw 4 INTs in multiple games in the same season. Your point?
Hopefully, Cutler will become the best QB in Chicago in the coming decade, but to take the year Jay had in Chicago in ‘09 and call him the QB of the decade would seem a bit illogical. ’09 wasn’t the best year for Jay, he had multiple 4 INT games, we missed the playoffs, and that was partly (definitely not entirely, and I’d be hard-pressed to even say 50%) due to mistakes that Jay made in the decision making process. Don’t get me wrong. I like Jay. But he’s another gunslinger that needs proper coaching to be great. He does not have a Peyton Manning mentality. And Ron Turner was the wrong guy to give a gunslinger to. Is Jay the most talented QB of the decade? Yep. But has he performed to that talent level? Nope.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'd have to agree with him.....
Grossman is the only QB in this decade to win a playoff game for Chicago. And he actually won the Seattle game. The defense did, as well, but Grossman led the game winning drive against Seattle. By that point, meanwhile, an Orton lead Offense had only once scored enough points to have actually won that game. How many points was this? 24…….
Orton was a game manager. That’s what he was here, and that’s what he is in Denver.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Yeah Orton fans have bad selective memory
This guy was literally the QB of one of the greatest single season collapses of a team in NFL history. That’s a fact!
All the WCG writer's collaborated on the contents of the All-Decade team
I’m writing up the offense; another writer will take up the defense. We all had input on the selections and the order.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
This is a very ignorant statement.
Dilfer’s stats obviously do not compare to Marino’s at all. Rex’s and Orton’s and even Jay’s one season’s worth of stats are all comparable to each other. Rex’s 2 playoff wins mean a whole lot more to the Bears and myself than Jay & Kyle’s combined zero playoff wins and zero playoff games played.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Like I said above. I’ll take Dilfer’s ring over Marino’s stats any day, and I’d bet Dan would too.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
You sure about that
On one hand, a Super Bowl ring for a year that’s long gone. You look at it, remember the game if you even played in it and then you shine it up a bit and eventually go about your business.
On the other hand, You have a statue of yourself outside of a stadium, a mini statue of your head enshrined in the Hall of Fame that people will still be looking at 100 years from now, and be considered probably the best passer in NFL History(at least in mine and many people that i have talked to minds)
In 100 years noone will remember Trent Dilfer. Pretty sure they will never put a statue of him outside a stadium either.
Somehow i don’t see Marino trading that.
by Chitownproduct on Jan 28, 2010 3:07 AM CST up reply actions
I bet Marino would trade some of it for a ring.
He will always be lauded for his stats but he will also be known as the guy who couldn’t win the big game.
Price Check on aisle BOOM.
by Ditkavsworld on Jan 28, 2010 7:15 AM CST up reply actions
But
he kept a certain team from going undefeated once upon a time. That’s pretty big, at least in our world.
"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson
"More bell cow" - Lovie Smith
by spleensplitter on Jan 28, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
You're absolutely right
But Orton made it look fun, and Rez just looked like a whiny beeyotch that needed punched out.
Well thought out
and extremely informative post. Thanks for contributing.
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Jan 27, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't even look at the names or perceived talent levels.
Look at the stats and successes for the given timeframe, 2000-2009. Rex and Orton had very similar stats, but who had more success. Based on these measurable qualities I would say 2 playoff wins and a Super Bowl appearance qualifies as more successful.
This doesn’t even mean that Rex is a better QB than Orton, it just means he did more for the Bears from 2000-2009. Now you can counter that and say it was because of defense or special teams, but there is no way to really tell if that is true. This is all based on the facts not possibilities.
by Rjt77 on Jan 27, 2010 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've been waiting
to see these stats as I knew from watching Orton’s numbers couldn’t be any better than Rex’s. Can’t say it enuff… media media media
Nice post by the way MuleTrain
It may start the whole Rex/Orton thing again but it took courage to tell the sad truth about our QB position over the years. I think we’re on the right track with Cutler though.
Rex Grossman hasn't been a starter on the Bears
in over 2 years and he still stirs up controversy. Only in Chicago….
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
Controversy? Noooooo.....
…just lively debate :P
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Nothing else to do while
we wait on finding out who our coordinators will be
only 1 year and plenty of interceptions, but i do not think any of those guys is better than Jay
Jay should be #1 on the list. Somebody please tell me Grossman is or was ever better than Jay and that if they had their choice they would choose rex to be their QB and not Jay.
If Jay Cutler's hands fell off
then I would probably pick Rex or Jay. Probably.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
LOL... I will make it simple for youz guyz
Is Jay Cutler eligible for this list?
Is Jay Cutler the best quarterback on this list?
If YES, then Jay Cutler is the Bears’ #1 QB of the decade.
If NO, then do the world a favor and throw your computer out a window, right now.
But you're not considering performance, really.
Yes, he is the most talented QB on the list. Yes, he qualifies for the list.
But was he the most successful Bears QB from 2000-2009? No, not by a long shot, he didnt’ get enough chance.
Will he be the most successful from 2010-2019? Oh, I so hope he is.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
by Kev H on Jan 27, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
By your definition
are you saying that Jay Cutler is the best QB the Bears have ever had, then?
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
unless you say you'd start somebody else
then saying rex is better, but I would start Jay over rex is an epic contradiction. rex can’t be the best qb of the decade while obviously not getting the starting nod over another QB of the same decade
I'm asking you lifetime.
Do you believe that Jay Cutler, after one season with the Bears, is the absolutely best Bears QB ever. Not based off his potential, or what he might be bringing, but that his one season of play with the Bears qualifies him as the best one ever.
An all-decade thing is going to be the most successful people from that time period. That’s how it works. That success is going to be based off of statistics, because that is the generally agreed measurement unit. That’s why they keep track of those things.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
by Kev H on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i disagree
for example Jerry Rice played only one season for the 49ers this last decade. Tai streets had better stats for the 49ers after Rice left, according to your logic Tai Streets would be ahead of Jerry friggin Rice on the 49ers list of the Wrs for the decade.
I understand what you are saying about statistical performance in determining such a list, but relying on statistical performance alone leads one to a false result.
In terms of receivers production in this decade
Yes, I would say that Tai Streets had the better decade. And then I’d say, “But there’s absolutely no chance that he is an overall better wide receiver than Jerry Rice.”
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
I want and/or need followers. http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
by Kev H on Jan 27, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes Streets
He had a better decade for the 49ers.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jan 27, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Yep, Streets was better in the '00s for the 9er's.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Who said anything about best....?
Not best, just most successful.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
We appreciate all the hard work and sacrifice to do this post!
Are you able to hold down any food yet?
Rex is defnitly #1 on the list had Jay gotten one more year in i think he would have been #1
The one bugaboo he had early was he could NEVER stay healthy. Remember the atlanta game in 2005? when he came in the third quarter and the crowed roared? Then after his first 20 yard completion they got even louder? Rex was the best QB we had since Jimbo in my eyes. His ups were so high but his lows were so low. In 2006 Peyton Manning and Rex Grossman had the MOST 100 or above pass rating games that still shocks me till this day. Many people forget the seattle divisional game where REX led us into postion for the game tying field goal to even get to over time. I loved Rex still do and if i had my choice id take him over Neck beard.
Jay Cutler is the best QB since Jimbo now! Hopefully Jay is the ONLY qb this decade
by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 27, 2010 12:43 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
+1: One and Only, hopefully.....
Here’s to hoping that Jay can survive Chicago and lead the Bears to a successful decade!
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Rec'd!
Also, I think that not enough has ever been said about Rex’s second injury in Minnesota. The one where he was running to the endzone and shredded his knee. Before that injury the guy was able to move around the pocket a little bit and was willing to run. I think that injury plus the one in the preseason the next year, had an effect on Rex’s approach to the game.
I think the Grossman/Orton debate has always been about perception. Grossman was “Sexy Rexy”, the 1st rounder from Florida who came in and was suppose the savior. There were already doubters because he was from Florida where a lot of noodle arm QBs came from. Orton was the rough and tough kid from the Big Ten semi-local college who many felt was the next Drew Brees. He was the underdog 4th round pick who scrapped for everything. He fit the Chicago fans image of what the position “should” look like.
I liked Orton myself and loved the drafting of him. When he had to play in ‘05 he was one of the worst QBs in the league. That’s just a fact. Turner stripped that playbook in order to get by with Kyle. He wasn’t even as good as Sanchez was this year. So when people keep bringing up his W/L record, it’s BS to me. I know what I saw at that time. So when Rex was justifiably given his job back, A lot of Orton fans have never let that go. Then the next year Rex was played a full season and went to a Superbowl. Scorned Orton fans and meatheads like Mike North fueled the hyped that Orton somehow got screwed. You know who really got screwed? The QB that was replaced 3 games after going to a Superbowl. That was Rex Grossman and he got replaced because Lovie got tired of having to defend his choice of sticking with Rex and gave the fans what they wanted which was Griese then Orton.
Until Kyle Orton guides a team to the playoffs, let alone wins a playoff game, I think any talk about him being better than Rex should just stop. It’s justified by nothing innuendo and pure Orton love. Rex was the QB of the last decade and as sad as they may be….It’s a FACT.
by Dils on Jan 27, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
My Friend i return the rec
that is exactly how i feel. Rexy OVER NeckBeard ANYDAY!
by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 27, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions
Great post, Dils.
You are exactly right, especially on this point: You have to look at Rex from a progression (or should I say REGRESSION) standpoint. The first major injuries of his career and his own pysche killed his chances.
Do you guys remember Rex when he was first drafted? Confident, aggressive, mobile. In addition, he was on a team that he could grow on. The Bears were rebuilding and he could afford to make mistakes and learn the game. Then, he gets injured. Twice, which made him less mobile and a bit wary of the rush.
Flash forward to the next time he’s healthy. The D is dominant, only he hasn’t had the benefit of experience. Even so, everything is fine until the Monday night game. Overnight Rex goes from MVP candidate to bust. It started a chain reaction of him slowly getting worse and worse. He wasn’t given room to fail and learn from it. His game was boom or bust. Most important of all, he started playing scared. By the superbowl game, the Indy D could see fear in his eyes, and he was done for.
By the end, Rex could do nothing right. He completely lost confidence on the field. He looked scared on every single snap, not only of the defense, but of failing. NO QB can be successful that way.
Sorry, I was off point.
Even though he got worse and worse as QB, Rex was the QB of the decade. He was our guy during our SB run. And he wasn’t just along for the ride or to handoff to TJ, either. He knew how to go deep, for better or worse.
In hindsight, Orton turned out to be better. But if we had handled him the right way and if he doesn’t get injured early on, who knows what Rex could’ve been? He had the higher ceiling, for sure.
When I think of memorable QB play (good or bad) from the decade. I think of Rex. When I think of what QB made me the most happy or the most sad during games, Rex comes to mind more than Orton or Miller. That is how I know he is the QB of the decade.
ORTON = #1
Due to the quality of his neckbeard alone!
How did he not get at least any bonus points for that?
Neckbeard and love of Jack,
played a role, but just could not put him over the top.
by Mike Mueller on Jan 27, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
he drives a prius
he lost points as well as his main card
but the neckbeard shall be allowed to remain
by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 28, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
Now this is sad....
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
I can't stand band-wagoner fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.
wow, what a list
I can’t even say that we had a qb of the decade, because we really didn’t. Even if I had to choose, with the guys we’ve had in the past ten years, it would have to be on an individual game basis. I don’t think any of them merit qb of the decade. I am certainly hoping JC will earn that this next ten years.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 27, 2010 3:40 PM CST reply actions
Our coaches failed Rex!
I always thought that with the right coaching Rex would’ve been one of the better QB’s in the league. However, the coaches hung him out to dry, and his confidence was devoured by a harsh media that seemed like they personally hated him.
by Silence_Dogood on Jan 27, 2010 3:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions
which is why
Rex got one snap for the texans this season, came in, all pumped, first pass, threw a friggin INT
Makin' Copies
Not exactly fair considering,,,,
That he was backing up Matt Schaub, who had an incredible year statistically, and spent most of the year in the top 5 of the QB power rankings.
Though I can’t argue the INT, lol. But as I’ve said before, Rex was broken when he left. Good luck fixing him.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
When I saw that, alls i could do was laugh.
He’s broke all right. It was always the qb center exchange when he played for us that killed me. If you can’t get that right, mine as well hang it up.
by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 27, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
Right, cause everyone knows....
that confidence has absolutely nothing to do with QB success, right? Wait……..
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by T-Train on Jan 27, 2010 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh God No
Oh God NO NO NO NO NO!!!
That list of Quarterbacks is so overly painful. My eyes have been burned.
Cutler should be 1
Because of the hype alone.
You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes.
by ifuwannacrownem on Jan 28, 2010 1:44 AM CST reply actions
Because no thread about Rex is complete without
by torch on Jan 28, 2010 6:24 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
That's friggin' awesome!
"More cowbell" - Bruce Dickinson
"More bell cow" - Lovie Smith
by spleensplitter on Jan 28, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
Rex Grossman's is view through "hate filled eyes"
Hide-site is 20/20…. looking back at Rex Grossmans Bears Career now is not going to put him in the greatest light- But let’s think rationally about this.
Drafted in 2003- John Shoop as his OC as a rookie. “Learned” under Kordell freaking Stewart!! (he broke his finger in the last game of 3 games he played- that bothers me that people count that as one of his “injuries”
2004- started the season hot- 3 games until torn knee ligament. out for rest of season- OH yeah TERRY SHEA was his OC- That’s two in two years. Lovie Smith first year.
2005- Broke his ankle in preseason- Ron Turner was OC- Came back after NOODLE ARM put together a terrible season- with the Defense winning ALL OF HIS GAMES!! 145 yard average passing. BENCHED!! and Rex came back to win a game that ORTON was Failing BADLY IN!!
2006- Superbowl season- MVP of Sept. 2 playoff wins- first Bears QB to start all games in 11 years- throw for 23 Touchdown passes!
The “great” Lovie Smith defense gave up over 200 yards rushing, and gave Peyton Manning his first SB MVP. but yeah it was all Rex’s fault.
First 3 season’s in NFL he has 2 head Coaches, and 3 Offensive Coordinators, and 2 major injuries- but yeah- he should have played like an all pro- just because.
NO NFL GM- even one as bad as Angelo is going to give up on a #1 QB draft pick after four seasons like that. If you think otherwise then I’m sorry for you.
Rex Grossman as the Best Bears QB of the Decade? Sure I’ll buy that.
I can’t wait for Cutler to continue to build on his first year in Chicago- I would have traded That Noodle Arm, NO GUTS, Neckbeard for one roll of athletic tape. That would have been a good deal!!
And I’m done!
by Zimm19 on Jan 28, 2010 10:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I guess im just too much pro REX
but i feel your sentiments to a tea. Rex for some reason just could not win the fans. Even when he led the comeback in 08 against the lions the fans would still boo him
by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 28, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
Rex was okay
but did he prove enough to get a new contract? He had a injury plagued career and if he was that good, he should be starting for another team by now. He might get another chance, just like Cade McNown got another chance. Who knows, maybe he can develop into Trent Dilfer!
Big +1
Unfortunately for Rex, he was drafted into a community that has had it up to here with QB failure. He was doomed from the start. Add all of your above points to that, and I’m surprised he performed as well as he did.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
Sort of like Herpes
As much as you like to forget about him, he manages to pop up around once a month.
by Chitownproduct on Jan 29, 2010 4:13 AM CST up reply actions
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