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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Is Ron Rivera The Next Bears Head Coach?



A recent article in the ChicagoSunTimes by columnist Sean Jensen may point to this.  The Bears declined their option to extend Rivera's contract following the 2006 season.  At the time of our run to the Super Bowl the Bears had the 5th ranked Defense in the league with Rivera as an assistant.  We all know what happens next.  Bob Babitch, Lovie's BFF is promoted to Defensive coordinator and Rivera catches a jet to San Diego.  Since being promoted to Defensive coordinator in 2007 with San Diego the Chargers have an 18 - 6 record.  As a result, San Diego was recently contacted by Buffalo and Seatlle for permission to interview Rivera for their Head coaching position.  Now here is the tell...........Ron Rivera declined their offer!  Ron Rivera went on to say he loves the Bears and sometimes you have to leave a team to come back to it in the ranks of professional coaching.  Rivera also went on to say he has enjoyed learning the 3 - 4 scheme as opposed to the Cover 2 he was part of in Chicago.  So that is my read on the entire situation.  Lovie Smith is a lame duck and everybody knows it, including would be Offensive coordinators that have spurned the job.  Ron Rivera knows that if he accepts a Head coaching position with another NFL franchise it blocks him from the soon to be created HC job in Chicago.  I will dance in the street if we can get Ron Rivera as our Head coach.  He's intelligent, relates well to players and is a Chicago Bear at heart.  Any comments?

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Sorry .....

……. While I like Ron I’m loyal to Lovie until he ain’t our coach anymore . He took us from the dog house to the penthouse ( though right now we’re kinda middle class ) . I like his attuide and demeanor . He’s a loyal guy , sometimes to a fault , and hes just a good guy all the way around .

Now with my support flag flyin IF Lovie gets fired at seasons end by all means bring on Rivera . Though I’d prefer Singletary .

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 30, 2010 3:28 PM CST reply actions  

Rec'd!

All points I have been making for a while. I like Lovie, personally, but as a coach, I find him lacking. I also find there to be an interesting correlation between the timing of the departure or Ron Rivera, and the fall of this team. I would, for one, be thrilled with Rivera as our next HC.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

fight place/right time?

With that thinking, he’s in the wrong place at the wrong time right now. Since the SB season when most of his haters loved him and said pay him, this is what has often been over looked yet has happen:

-wr pos was hurting so had to move the fastest guy, a 42 $mill man to a new pos
-loss B A the special teams guy who lead that unit that blocked for returns(overlooked often)
-loss teams best rusher (2009) to injury in preseason (K. Jones)
- 54 gets hurt
-Pisa too
-4th pick overall wasn’t mentally ready for the pros
-Tait retires
-93 doesn’t do what hes paid to do
-Tommie gets a bum knee
-1st rounder spends year 1 almost on IR

I’m a Lovie guy as I take all things into consideration. With that in mind, I had to point this out

by jay42 on Feb 1, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Lovie was the head coach but that doesnt mean he was the sole reason

It was the defense led by Chico that revived this team. Yes it was Lovies scheme but that scheme has not changed as well all know and the defense isnt what it once was. Yes we lost players, but losing Rivera set us back more than we knew at the time. Dont beleive me look at the improvement of the San Diego defense i still dont know why Rivera is getting any interviews for a Head Coaching Job hes defnitly more qualified than Mangini and Chan Gailey.
I hope he is our next coach hes an ex bear and in his short time here he achieved alot and arguably in 2005(not the superbowl year the year before) had one of the best defense of the decade had LOVIE not benched the starters they would have set the record for fewest points allowed in NFL HISTORY.
Nothing against Lovie as you said he was a big part in turning us into atleast a respectable team but i believe its time for a change

by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 30, 2010 4:12 PM CST reply actions  

according to dave kaplan on CTL

he stated/hinted countless times that he talked to “cowhers people” and that he wants to coach the Bears next….

boers and burnstein also hinted certain members of the Bears board (ie more than one) also want cowher as the next HC of the Bears…..They would have done it this year but virginia and mike mccaskey made the choice to bring Lovie back….

so take that for what its worth…..which nothing but rumor I guess….

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul...."

- Jay Cutler to Ron Turner during the season

by CloudyFuture on Jan 30, 2010 4:34 PM CST reply actions  

Im for Cowher also but i dont want to act like i dont appreciate what Lovie has done

The only way Lovie is coach in 2011 is if he wins the superbowl.( and if that happens i think all of us will once again love some lovie)

by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 30, 2010 4:49 PM CST reply actions  

Love Some Lovie?

You got to be kidding me Man? he might be a nice guy and I like him as a person. But as Head Coach of our beloved Chicago Bears? Hell no he has to go! He does not have………….IT. IT being the ability to lead a team to the top. His cover 2 scheme needs to find a scrap heap somewhere.

by Gesiakob on Jan 30, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Like i said Gesiakob

IF HE WINS A SUPERBOWL i would love me some lovie. If he wins a superbowl which is a big if since we are struggling finding coordinators(or so we think) you cant justify him not keeping his job

by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 30, 2010 5:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Lovin Lovie ......

….. like I said without Lovie we’d still be in the NFC North sewer . My opinion he a keeper and this Bears fan says hell no to Bill Cowher with whatever happens this year . I like a 4-3 D , Cowher is a 3-4 guy . If Cowher comes in its a complete rebuild of our D and that could take a while . We’d need rush OLB’s , which we don’t have , we’d need a stout nose tackle , which we don’t have , we’d need two stout 3-4 type ends and last I checked we ain’t got that either .

As long as we win this season , say go 9-7 and make the playoffs , I want him back . Hell even go 8-8 as long as we get into the dance I’m good with it . Heres the one thing that scares me a little bit ……. all these Bears fans wishin a bad season on us just to get another head coach ! Man funk that ! I wanna win and I wanna win now .

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 30, 2010 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Have you looked at the standings over the past 3 years?

If it wasn’t for Detroit, we WOULD be in the NFC North sewer.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t think Lovie is the answer. I really think that he’s best suited to be an NFL position coach – unless (after the McCaskeys get the balls to fire him and Angelo) he can find someone who wants to bring him in as DC to run the Cover 2.

As a leader, I just don’t see what Lovie brings to the table – other than seemingly being one heck of a nice guy…

"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon

by JimmyMack on Jan 30, 2010 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

you do realize greenbay switched to 3-4

and in year one were the best statistical defense
it doesnt need to take years

by Bear Lovin 21 on Jan 30, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

They also .......

……………. one of the best 3-4 coaches in the league in Dom Capers , 2 first round picks that came in a made a huge difference ( Mathews & Raji ) and already LB’s to fit the scheme . So yes it dosn’t need to take years when you have all that help .

And JimmyMack yea he hasn’t cut it for 3 years but look at what we were workin with those three seasons . Injuries to key players each year , incosisent QB play from Rex and Kyle , bad play calling on offense and defense ( only one year of Lovie calling and sorry if Urlacher don’t go down game one Lovie looks alot better calling the D with his D QB #54 ) and just bad luck in general . So no sorry don’t buy your Detroit reference . OK look at his record versus the division …….. its a winning record of 18-12 in the North . This season was the first Packers sweep since Lovies arrival and the Vikings have yet to sweep us since his arrival . He has done very well aginest the division as a whole .

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 30, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions  

First off,

The QB play over the last 3 seasons has been far more consistent than it was over the first three, where Lovie actually had a winning record. Second, the ‘05 and ’06 Defenses suffered just as many injuries to players as the ’07, ’08 and ’09 defenses., so that’s a fairly poor excuse.

Second, Lovie division record isn’t bad, true enough. But the NFC North is not exactly the best division anymore, and our division rivals have produced a total of just 6 winning seasons, collectively, in the last 6 years. Lovie’s division record? 21-15. But he’s only 6-6 against division opponents with winning records. To be fair, though, even without Detroit, Lovie is 13-11 against GB and the Vikes (7-5 vs GB and 6-6 vs MIN). But to me, that’s like being the smartest guy in special ed………Not exactly what I want I was hoping for.

Oh, and the Vikings swept us in 2007. Week 6 was 34-31 and week 15 was 20-13. Detroit also swept us in 2007, beating us 37-27 in week 4 and 16-7 in week 8. Green Bay swept us this year.

But wait…..there’s more…..

Division record with Ron Rivera as DC………12-6 (.667)
Division record with Babich/Smith as DC…….9-9 (.500)

I think I see a pattern here……….

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2010 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

But .....

…… All it takes to get into the playoffs is winning the division and he can do that . He’s got a winning record in the division period . And yes its true the Pack got us twice this year but before that we owned them . Also those divisional records with this DC and that DC are marginal at best . Rivera had a healthy D where since lets just say we’ve been less than healthy for the other two . And sorry healthy players make a huge difference . Also bad player managment has contributed to these latest bad seasons and poor offensive calls have cost us on both sides of the ball .

Kill Lovie all you want but this coming season is in his hands so you might want to support rather than point out all the negative . Just sayin ….. do you really want to see the Bears fail just to say I told you so ? Or do you want to see them fail so we get a new coach ? You seem to be a glass half empty guy so the questions seem relevant . Not comin at ya just makin an observation .

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 30, 2010 9:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Also bad player managment has contributed to these latest bad seasons and poor offensive calls have cost us on both sides of the ball .

As the HC, isn’t Lovie is responsible for these as well?

You seem to be a glass half empty guy so the questions seem relevant . Not comin at ya just makin an observation .

You seem to fail to recognise that there’s a league beyond the NFC North who thinks we’re mediocre at best. Not having a go at you, just making an observation.

"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
"I don’t care if Belichick wins twenty Super Bowls. He’s an asshole." - Da Coach
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta

by Spongie on Jan 30, 2010 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2010 10:18 PM CST up reply actions  

BS argument......

I’ve supported the Bears emotionally and monetarily for 35 years. It would be nice to see ownership decide to give me the best product they can. That whole, sit down, shut up and take it cause you love the Bears argument is BS.

I hope that Lovie Smith manages to hire a real staff to support him, and takes this team to 6 straight Super Bowls. But that doesn’t change the fact that Smith has sucked it up over the past 3.

As to your Rivera arguments……In 3 seasons Rivera started 41 players at the 11 standard defensive positions. 15 in ‘04, 11 in ’05 and 15 in the Super Bowl ’06 season. Babich/Smith have started 42 players at the 11 standard positions in the three years since, 13 in ’07, 13 in ’08 and 16 in ’09. There’s not a whole lot of difference, bro. So having healthy players isn’t an issue that you can use to cover for Smith.

And the poor offensive calls argument holds even less water, as Rivera’s 3 seasons saw 2 of the 3 worst offensive seasons the Bears have offered since the 16 game seasons was implemented. meanwhile, ‘07, 08 and ’09 were the 9th, 8th and 4th worst seasons defensively in the 16 game era (which has now seen 32 years). The numbers don’t match your argument.

Bad player management I’ll give you…………

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2010 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

As paying fans, it is our RIGHT to demand a better product from the McCaskeys. And when one or more of their employees (Phillips, Angelo & Lovie) is not doing a satisfactory job, we have the right to criticize management.

Does that mean that we’re trying to be negative and drag the team down – or hope that they lose so Lovie gets canned? Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, I hope that Lovie and the Bears go 16-0 this year and they give him another 5 year, $27 million contract! That said, I still believe that Lovie is a sub-par NFL coach who should’ve gotten a whole lot more out of this team and these players over the past 3 years.

"Yes, risk taking is inherently failure-prone. Otherwise, it would be called sure-thing-taking." - Jim McMahon

by JimmyMack on Jan 31, 2010 7:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Half empty.....

I don’t see the glass is half empty. I wrote a post defensing the talent level on this team less than a week ago. I think Angelo is salvageable with some help in offensive drafting. I see the possibility that Smith, who I happen to think is a great guy that I would love to sit down and talk football with, can turn this around with the right hires. But based on his personnel moves so far, I’m not holding my breath.

The Brass screwed us to save some bucks, and I think that gives the loyal fan-base the right to complain rather loudly, considering that we pay the bills.

None of that means that I will root against my Bears. I can’t even justify doing that for draft position in a horrible year =). I’ll live and die, weekly, by the Bears this season as I have every other. But suggesting that I’m somehow less of a fan, rooting against my Beloved Bears, because I disagree with the ownerships choice to save money and give us what is very likely (though by no means definitely) to be a wasted season and more pain, isn’t cool. It’s no more realistic than me suggesting that your shilling for the team and Lovie Smith helps the team to fail and makes you a worse fan.

I truly hope I’m eating my words at the end of the season, but none of it will change the fact that regardless what Smith and his new crew do in the future, he has screwed the pooch the last three seasons and has provided us with some of the worst offensive and defensive efforts this team has had……those are the facts. I just hope the facts of 2010 are different.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 30, 2010 10:17 PM CST up reply actions  

So.............

…………. when he was winning were you sayin this ? My guess is no . And hate to tell you guys this but its Jerry Angelos job to give Lovie talented players to work with not the other way around . As Drafts go JA has done nothing to give Lovie players to support what we do ( Jay Cutler being his one bright spot the last few season ) . So You want to see Lovie gone for something he has no control over …. player / personal decisions . ( Spongie )

As for this whole they started the same players deal , umm not so much . Name me one season that Rivera went without Urlacher . Also Rivera had Tommie Harris before his decline( due to injuries ) which also helps . Rivera had Chris Harris to work with ( and whats JA do , kicks his ass to Carliona ) . Rivera got a Mark Anderson that just hasn’t shown since . And while some of this is Ron alot of its not . He had help from Perry Fewell with the secondary . So in my opinion if you gotta lay blame at the feet of someone place it on Jerry Angelo and Phillips .

Also I’m not callin out your fanhood just sayin whats all this negativity accomplishing ? Great we get it your upset with managment ….. how that Lovies fault ? He can do so much with what JA’s givin him . So by no means am I sayin you suck as a fan I’m just sayin lay off all this negative BS . The season ain’t even over yet and you got us being cellar dwellars for 2010 !

As for the numbers thing we’ll agree to disagree . Yes the numbers support your theroy but Rivera’s offenseive help was greater which helped his rep as a DC . And don’t even go with the " Well look what hes doin in SD " . SD is friggin loaded ! 2005 and 2006 Rivera had plenty of support , given that support was shaky in 05 but it was still better than whats been there since Ron left .

And Spogie all that matters is us gettin out of the North with a division title because that means we’re in the playoffs . So call it what you will my man . And you can pick out whats directed your way . Not comin at ya , just sayin .

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 30, 2010 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, I was....

In ’06 was a front page writer for another site (Now defunct due to owner issues) and I wrote articles chastising Smith for letting Rivera get away. I also wrote an article countering the sentiment that Chicago would be back in the playoffs the next season, based on personnel moves and offensive history. I had no problems pointing this out 3 years ago, and there were others who saw what was happening and predicted the same.

The argument that Smith hasn’t been given talent is ridiculous. Why is it that there are three safeties (Harris, McGowen and Brown) that the Bears have given away in the last 3 years that the Bears have given away that all outperformed our own safeties? Tell me that Lovie did a good job developing Ced Benson, or Brandon McGowen, or Chris Harris, or Mike Gandy or Marc Columbo, or Justin Gage, etc, etc, etc……But all that’s Angelo’s fault. Smith desiding not to return Rivera was probably Angelo’s fault, too. As was Adam Archuletta, which was the ACTUAL reason the Bears traded Chris Harris. Archuletta, who worked for Smith in StL was supposed to be a perfect fit. Must have been Angelo’s idea. Smith has half the decision in players, and all the decision in coaches, but none of the responibility for the failure? Player decline since Rivera left? Well, coaching wouldn’t have anything to do with that, would it? Musta been Angelo’s fault as well.

You ask what all the negativity has accomplished. I ask you what all of your optimism has accomplished? Why must I my passion when the Bears have fielded fewer playoff teams than Detroit since Ditka left 17 years ago. I support this team, emotionally and monetarily. I have for 35 years. And I have to quell my passion why? You accused me of rooting for failure. I’d say that’s calling out my fanhood, hero.

And that’s all before mentioning that Lovie has half the say in players. The Bears 5 part ’09 draft video segments at the official site had Angelo and Smith both discussing this, They have both said as much in interviews as well.

Again, I wonder how Rivera’s defense was getting more help from the O while the offense was producing the 1st and 3rd worst Bear offensive seasons in the 16 Game Era, or while the ‘06 offense was putting up the worst turnover numbers of Lovie’s tenure. I would say the opposite. ‘06 v AZ, the Bears defense, and The Windy City Flyer did what the offense couldn’t. The D scoring 14 points on 2 fumble returns and Devin capped it off with an 83 yard punt return to save Grossman and the offense and become the only team in NFL history to mount a 4th QTR come back from 20 points down to win a game without scoring a single offensive point. So the 3rd worst Bears offense in Era16 (Chicago circa 2005) was what you would call more support? Funny revisionist history. The Bears D set the team on it’s back and carried it to the playoffs single handedly in ’05 while the horrid offense managed all of 218 points. In ’06 the defense overcame a Smith-Era high 36 offensive turnovers by forcing a league high 44 turnovers. None of the last 3 years offenses has been as impotent as ’04 or ’05, and none has given the ball away as often as the ’06 team. So, no, Rivera did not receive more help from the offense, but he did have to carry them a lot farther.

Is Smith responsible for anything, in your mind? I haven’t once said that the 2010 season was a definite failure. I have said that Smith can turn all of this around by hiring the right co-ordinators, but that I’m not holding my breath. As far as negativity goes, I’m only negative about Smith. He’s over-paid,. over-rated and in over his head. The defense just allowed the 4th most points in the 16 game era and the 6th most in Chicago’s 80 year history. And I’m supposed to ignore all of that and Think sunshine and rainbows so you can be more comfortable? I think not……..

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh left out......

the fact that I was calling for Turner’s head after the ’06 season, and regularly said that Smith dismissed the wrong Ron………

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

And another thing.......Urlacher.

So the two season’s that Urlacher was present while the Bears rolled to the 8th and 9th worst defensive efforts in Era16 (‘07 and ’08) don’t then indict Smith? If Brian being gone in ‘09 exonerates Smith of responsibility for the 4th Worst Era16 defensive effort, than I would say that Urlacher being present for the 8th and 9th worst condemn Smith. Or how about this, you think Lovie holds no responsibility in building a scheme that will fall apart with the loss of one specific player? Because if your argument is that this years failure falls on 54’s injury, than that means Lovie is responsible for creating a scheme that has no contingency should Brina Urlacher get hurt.

Injuries happen every year. Excusing unprepared and confused defenses because of injury is crap. Mike Brown missed 10 games in ‘06. Tommie Harris and Alfonso Boone missed 4, Vasher, Johnson, Tillman, Manning and Ogunleye all missed 2. Injuries happen. Do they have an impact? Yep. But to use them as an excuse for bad playcalling, bad scheming and bad preparation doesn’t fly. Was Urlacher there in ’07 when the Bears defense fell from 5th to 28th? Yep. Were the loss of Tank Johnson and Chris Harris and an injury to Vasher really enough to turn a defense that was 5th ranked into a 28th ranked failure, becasue Urlacher was there. Look, Brian might be (I would say IS, but that would be my arguable opinion) the best Cover 2 Linebacker in history. But if Smith has built his whole defense around one player, than he has failed, because Brian played all 32 games between ’07 and ’08 and the defense still failed.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

That All ????

So do you have anything to say or am I gonna do all the posting ? JUST KIDDING !! I see where your comin from but still yet we’re not gonna agree here so I’ll leave it at that . You see a shit product on the field and I see a good team underacheving . You seem to want to blame only Lovie and I place the blame with JA , Ted , Lovie and his coaches and the players . The players play the game and control alot more than we as fan think .

Let us not forget though that the players wanted Lovie back and played like we can the last two games to get him back . Honestly Lovie seems to put his best foot foward when his back is aginest the wall so …….

One thing though if JA wanted those players and coaches back he is the GM and he does make those decisions . As for Ced Benson he was playin in Turners offensive scheme and Turner refused to change it for anyone . So that rests with him . And the three safties you listed were traded away by JA to get draft picks .

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 31, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I Love Your Post T-Train!

Just be care full how you word things. Dane issued me a warning today because he feels I talk down to people.

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks.....

But I’m not to worried. I don’t think I’m talking down to Midway, and our conversation here has been very amicable. He and I both love the Bears and want the same thing. We just disagree on how to express it, and on how we got to this point.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

No Issues Here My Man ......

……… Just because we disagree don’t mean hes talkin down to anyone . T-Train is just a little more angest filled and tends to post everything thats on his mind . This was a discussion between two Bear lovin fools not one killin the other .

Well T-Train I’ll agree to not infringe on your right to bitch because hell I just glad to have such a devoted fan on my side ! While we may not agree on alot we do agree on one thing , and its the only one that matters , its all about our Bears !!!! So keep up your book like posts because even if we disagree your an informative dude and your posts are well thought out so who gives a shit how long they are !

by MidWayMonster54 on Jan 31, 2010 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks, MidWay....

I know……I have a tendency to go on. I get an idea, and that is followed by another, and that is elongated by sleep deprivation (thus repeating several things in that last post). I’m betting we disagree on less than you think, but on this, we do. C’est la vie. I have no problem with sunshine and lollipops, either. It helps balance the “Nothing is good about this team” crowd.

Hey, I think this one will end short! ;-D

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

This was a good debate

You guys both made good points. Think i’m gonna lean more towards T-Train on this one because it just seemed after the Super Bowl season, Lovie just got cocky in general. Then the first 4 game abyssmal start next season, the Brian Griese, back to Rex, back to KO for the last 3 games just seemed so disorganized for a team that went to the Super Bowl a year before.

by Chitownproduct on Feb 1, 2010 7:26 AM CST up reply actions  

+1

Lovie smith gets let off the hook way to much. Should have been fired. Fire ’em all.

by HateMe2Morrow on Jan 31, 2010 10:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you think the Vikings need to throw their defense on the scrap heap as well?

They run the Tampa-2 just as we do. They just have better personnel and Leslie Frazier to coordinate it. Our coaching incompetence and lack of proper position players is what makes our defense a failure.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 30, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to mention the whole "musical players"....

game that this team has played since lovie arrived. Rotating offensive linemen and defensive backs out of the positions they know and were drafted for and into new positions that they have to take the time to learn stunts development. Ask Mike Gandy, Frank Omiyale, Daneial Manning, Devin Hester and Corey Graham.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I Regretfully Disagree With Your Statement PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears

Although is has some merit I do not see the Vikings having the same Defense the Bears do. They actually get pressure on the Quarterback.

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

That's exactly his point, G

The Vikes run a similar style cover 2 that has been very successful. Why? Because their playcalling, personnel priorities and player development have built a team that actually functions as it should. The Vikings defense shows us that the aggressive 4-3/Cover 2 hybrid works when properly run, as it was here in ‘04, ’05 and ’06 and as Minnesota is running it now. The scheme isn’t the problem. It’s how it’s run that’s the problem.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Right

That’s why I said his point has some merit in that the Defenses are similar. The thing we all can’t seem to agree on definently is whether it’s the scheme or the Personal in regards to the Bears. I see holes. I see big holes in our Defense.

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 10:07 PM CST up reply actions  

players

i see players in those wholes. i just don’t think they’re being coached.

by Fuelfire on Jan 31, 2010 10:09 PM CST up reply actions  

What a shock!

You disagree with something I’ve said but your argument makes no sense. The Bears and Vikings run the Tampa 2 defense as their base scheme but of course they both use different looks at different times. Both teams play 4-3 gap stopping defense but the Vikings are better equipped to do so with their personnel. We’d get pressure on the QB if we had more productive DEs and a three-technique tackle that could get some solid penetration. I think you just like to disagree with me even if you have a terrible response.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 31, 2010 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope you're not talking down to me...........

Let’s take a look inside the viewfinder to see the efficiency of the Vikings Defense on Third and long compared to the Bears on Long.

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you have a link to that?

I’m game. The Vikes were the 6th ranked Defense this season. We allowed the 6th most points in our 80 year history, and the 4th most in the 16 game era. I’d suggest they were successful and we weren’t.

But, honestly, I’m a stats guy, so I’d love to see a link to that 3rd down efficiency rating you were talking about (not only for this reason, but for other uses as well.)

Thanks

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

As Of Dec, 2,2009

     
  
 
 

The offense has kept drives going; the defense has shut them down.

By CHIP SCOGGINS, Star Tribune

Last update: December 2, 2009 – 1:26 PM

Tarkenton: Overview of opinions
The Vikings have run 80 more offensive plays than their opponents this season, a significant gap that underscores their success on third down.

Third-down efficiency is one of the more important statistics in football, and the Vikings are excelling in that area on both sides of the ball. The Vikings lead the NFL in third-down defense and rank second in third-down offense.

The last team to lead the NFL in both third-down offense and third-down defense in the same season was the 1975 Vikings, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

“You look at traditionally what wins games and it’s third down and turnovers,” Pro Bowl left guard Steve Hutchinson said. “If you can eliminate turnovers and make the majority of your third downs, you’re going to be all right.”

The Vikings ability to convert third downs on offense and stop them on defense no doubt has contributed to their 10-1 start. Coach Brad Childress said the two work “hand in glove.”

“It’s a perfect storm when you can do that,” he said, “when you can stay on there as long as you want to.”

Not surprisingly, the Vikings have shown dramatic improvement on third downs with quarterback Brett Favre. They finished 19th in the league in third-down efficiency last season at 39.4 percent. They are at 48.7 percent this season, trailing only the Indianapolis Colts (49.6 percent).

The Vikings were 12 of 18 on third downs against the Bears on Sunday, and that included one kneel-down at the end of the game.

“It’s partly play-calling and partly execution on our part by the players,” wide receiver Sidney Rice said. “We’re just supposed to go out and execute on the plays that the coaches give us. Third downs [are] one of the things we talked about ever since the beginning of training camp.”

Favre is the NFL’s second-ranked passer on third down and has completed 77 of 112 passes (68.8 percent) for 1,020 yards and eight touchdowns in those situations.

His ability to spread the ball around has made the Vikings less predictable on third down. Consider:

• Rice ranks third in the NFL in third-down receiving yards (307) and rookie Percy Harvin is fourth (292).

• Chester Taylor leads all running backs and is sixth overall in third-down catches (19).

“Our wide receivers are doing their job, and Brett is doing his job,” tight end Visanthe Shiancoe said. “Our offensive line, they are doing their job of holding up the protection, protecting our quarterback. Our running backs are protecting our quarterback allowing him time to throw the ball to the wide receivers. It’s no longer where our wide receivers can’t get open. They have the ability now, and they are showing it.”

That has allowed Childress and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell to be more aggressive with their play calls. Third-and-long no longer seems impossible for the offense. The average distance on their 12 third-down conversions against the Bears was 6 yards.

“Usually we’re not bad from 3 to 6 [yards],” Childress said. “If we can get it down to manageable, we’re not bad. And you have to make your share when you have a third-and-13.”

The Vikings defense was one of the league’s best on third down last season and is slightly better statistically this season. Their opponents have converted only 32.8 percent of third-down opportunities.

The Vikings also have held opponents to 43 three-and-out series on 127 possessions, which is the highest percentage (.339) in the NFL.

“That’s very critical,” cornerback Cedric Griffin said. “We pride ourselves on stopping the run, and then making the offense have a long [distance] to get down the field — third-and-7, third-and-12. That’s just a high-percentage advantage for the defense. So if we can put those guys in that position, we’ll take it all day.”

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks, G....

Good read. But I was hoping you had a statistical sight in your pocket that I could make use of for those stats……oh well, back to the drawing board. Great read, though…

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 1, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

To Be Honest T-Train

I am not as advanced as a lot of the people on this site as an internet wizard. That’s about all I could find on the fly.

by Gesiakob on Feb 1, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

S'aright, bro....

Just thought you might have had a sight in your pocket that actually listed broken-down 3rd Down stats, among others. Have been looking for a while.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 4, 2010 12:28 AM CST up reply actions  

next time

link it instead of C & P

Makin' Copies

by suckmyditka on Feb 1, 2010 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

What point are you trying to make?

That I’m right and the personnel and coaching makes the difference? The Bears have no solid FS or SS, one good CB in Tillman and another in Bowman who NEVER jams his man at the line or he gets burned, no solid pressure on the QB and a hodgepodge of LBs that were decimated by injuries. We played musical secondary and linebackers all season as well. Now when you compare that to a healthy and productive Minnesota defensive roster which one do you think will be better on 3rd and long? After the ridiculous comments you’ve been making about my fantasy name and now this, I really don’t care if it seems that I’m talking down to you.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 31, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah I see that

they returned the comment I made prior to the comment I made below.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 1, 2010 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I apparently can't say

what I want to you as well without my comment being edited. With this comment you’ve just made are you basically admitting that I was right all along? When your running the same defense and one team is more productive than the other it comes down to defensive play calling and personnel. I don’t understand how what you said is proving me wrong.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 31, 2010 11:28 PM CST up reply actions  

dude..

if Lovie goes 9-7 and we get a wild card birth out of that, he’d still stay for 2011.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jan 30, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Regardless of the WL record, if the Bears make the playoffs next year then Smith is around for 2011.

"I am not an animal!" - Merrick

by Maelvampyre on Jan 30, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

9-7, thats the worst scenario for Lovie to stick around imo.

10-6 or 11-5…Not so bad. I wouldn’t be as upset with that, especially 11-5.

by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 30, 2010 7:57 PM CST up reply actions  

9-7

I’m not sure that 9-7 will save his job, even with a playoff game. Maybe if the bears win a playoff game, though.

by Fuelfire on Jan 31, 2010 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

one and done

and lovie’s gone.

Makin' Copies

by suckmyditka on Feb 1, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope not

I’m not one to gush over Ron cause he happened to coach Lovie’s scheme while the core of the defense was in its prime. San Diego is widely considered to have great talent, yet Rivera has never been able to lead them past mediocrity.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 30, 2010 6:34 PM CST reply actions  

That is what i have been saying

it’s not so much the scheme as the personnel. We had the ideal players for his scheme when angelo took over and then hired Lovie. Where they have failed is bringing in new talent and developing those players that they have brought in. One of the tings i miss the most is big guys in the middle. When you have big guys that demand to blockers it makes things easier on the ends and the linebackers.

by Jhitt81 on Jan 30, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions  

I couldn't agree with you more when it comes to big guys in the middle on...

both the OL and DL. I don’t like Everything built on speed. DT’s and OG’s should not only be talented, but they should be huge and strong as oxen. Lovie seems to think every position should be a speed position, I disagree. It seems like our team has been undersized for the last three years at least.

by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 30, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah Lovie played in a dome for to long.

This is soldier field in chicago. It’s not exactly the most condusive place for speed.

by Jhitt81 on Jan 30, 2010 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the scheme though

Speed, speed, and more speed. It’s the difference between “read and react 2-gap” 4-3, and an “attacking, one-gap” 4-3 defense. Having behemoth DTs wouldn’t work in the cover-2, nor would a quick/fast undersized DT work in a read and react D.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 31, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

A fair argument, as far as SD goes....

the only argument I have with that is that Rivera is learning the 3-4 system and that generally takes a couple of years. Prior to that he has worked under aggressive 4-3’s in Chicago and Philly. But it is a fair point, though not a deal breaker.

Ron might have been running Lovie’s scheme, but he was doing it his way, and it worked when Ron was here. The players in their prime arguement doesn’t hold water, as most of those players were still with the Bears in ‘07 when the team fell from 5th to 28th, and even today most of the ’06 team hasn’t hit 30. Remember that they were a young team. That’s why there seemed to be such a bright future for the defense before Smith declined Rivera’s option. Since then, the Defense has been horrid, and has posted 3 of the worst Bears defenses in 32 years (16 game era).

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Slight changes helped that drop in production
as most of those players were still with the Bears in ‘07 when the team fell from 5th to 28th

First, Harris was not the same player and has never regained his dominant play. Add Vasher to the mix, as well as missing Chris Harris as an impact safety.

Ron might have been running Lovie’s scheme, but he was doing it his way, and it worked when Ron was here.

His differences with Lovie within his scheme were what ultimately caused his dismissal as DC. Rivera wanted to be more aggressive and creative, while Smith wanted to stay traditional and conservative.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 31, 2010 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Rebuttal.....

I wonder if there’s any coincidence to the dismissal of Rivera and the diminishing returns from players like Harris and Vasher. Funny how easy it is to note Harris’s injuries. But both he and Vasher say production drops with the end of Rivera’s blitz-happy playcalling. Less QB pressure means fewer sacks from Tommie and the ends (and lets not ignore the complete halt to Mark Anderson’s production) and more time that Nate Vasher had to cover. Being that there is no way to prove what actually caused the decline, We’ll have to disagree. I do think injuries helped a little. But I think Lovie Babich’s playcalling had even more to do with it.

BTW……Chris Harris’ “impact” lasted all of 7 games that he subbed for Mike brown after the AZ game. The next season, Smith decided that Adam Archuleta’s skills set was a better fit. Remember that Harris was only starting to replace Mike Brown. With Brown returning (supposedly) and Archuleta coming in, Harris was the odd man out. McGowen ended up replacing him after both Brown and Archuleta went down and did just as well as Harris (virtually identical players, so imagine that). Then Lovie and Jerry flub his development and give him away to the Pats, who loved him as he outperformed all of our safeties….

I absolutely agree with you on Rivera’s dismissal, which to me is just another check in the poor decisions columb for Smith.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Conservative play calling

stemmed from their differences in the SB. I heard and read RR wanted to blitz more against Manning cause our LBs weren’t making the tackles in front of them. Instead, Addai and the other guy (I can’t remember his name now) were getting 7-10 yards a clip on dump-off passes. I don’t believe the Bears blitzed much during the ‘06 season, thus the reason why Lovie wouldn’t deviate from the conservative game-plan. I think we’re both right. The defenses’ decline was the result of injuries (Harris/Brown), age, one-hit wonder players…ie Anderson, Vasher, Tank Johnson, etc., and Lovie’s stubborn attitude/over confidence + RR’s firing.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 31, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I Can Live With That Analogy

A series of mistake that compounded themselves. They came out of 2006 and made moves to try and have a slightly better product to get them over the top. And what they proceeded to do is make the product worse. We are now seeing the after effect of the moves they made being called into question.

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Add poor personnel decisions as well

Archuleta/C. Harris debacle.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 31, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 1, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Somebody "gets it"

YES, RR is simply overrated in my mind due to the things you mentioned. Also, lets keep in mind the how his deffenses here always seemed to fade in the last qrt. of the season and in the playoff. Was he bad? no Was he great? no he is run of the mill and his time in SD shows it.

by jay42 on Feb 1, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

with that,

I hope Da Bears have a kickass season next year no matter what. Maybe Rivera in the future, who knows.

by Bears fan 4-ever!!! on Jan 30, 2010 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

what makes you

think so?
was it a good bears def that faded late with great talent or the slighly above avg SD def with the same talent and late season issues?

by jay42 on Feb 1, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

to be fair....

Rivera was learning a new system with SD himself. Generally takes a couple of years to get a grasp on the nuances. But he certainly didn’t dazzle me this season, either. Roster talent is over-rated in SD, though. Definitely not a bad roster, but not great, either.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 1, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

San Diego was widely regarded as having the best roster in the NFL last year.

Don’t see how the roster relates to whether or not Rivera would be a good head coach or not though …..

by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 23, 2010 1:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I like Ron Rivera...

but aren’t you jumping the shark a bit on this one Fonzie Gesiakob. BTW, where you been hidin’!?

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jan 30, 2010 9:08 PM CST reply actions  

I Was Taking A Vacation From Somebody On The Site LostinSTL..............lol

I do not believe I’m jumping the gun on this theory,(no pun intended Palexico). After watching teams like Arizona and Cincinnatti score at will against us this Year I think it is put up or shut up time for Lovie and company. I think is is absurd for somebody to suggest I want our Bears to lose next season. I want us to win every week and go undefeated to the Super Bowl. However, that is not reality. Reality dictates we had a HORRIBLE defense this Year. If we all can go back in time let’s do some exploring. Prior to the start of the 2009 season and Lovie Smith at the podium. He states that he is taking over the Defensive playcalling and if they do not perform well it’s on his shoulder’s. Well not only did we not perform, we were an embarrassment to watch the majority of the time and unbearable the other times. I have Zero faith in this Defensive scheme going into next season. Personal my arse, you can go down the middle 5 15 yards on this team all day long. Is that not what Ocho Cinco mouthed to the camera on his first Touchdown of many against Cincinnatti? “All Day Long” as he was laughing? Turned out he was right. They scored at will against us all day long. Do you know why he was laughing and made such a bold statement? Put down your Budweiser fans and I will tell you. Because the Offensive coordinator looked at film earlier that week and found the holes in Lovie Smith’s sceme. And that was not the only team to do that to us this Year.

by Gesiakob on Jan 31, 2010 2:34 AM CST up reply actions  

You can't always blame the scheme ...

Who was covering those players that get open in ‘the scheme’ ? They were someone’s responsibility. If the system was being played correctly and you had guys who knew what they were doing calling out the plays, there’s no problem. We got to the superbowl with the Cover 2. Does it suddenly not work now ? Or is it the people playing it. Of course Cincinatti had a field day – Hunter Hillenmeyer was calling the plays on defense. Mike Brown and Brian Urlacher aren’t in there shouting at who’s on who and getting the coverages right. That’s not the fault of the cover 2. We missed Brian. Period. We miss MB. Period. Can’t win a war without your generals.

by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 23, 2010 12:58 AM CST up reply actions  

And people tend to forget our injuries on defense ....

We lost our starting DT, Dusty Dvoracek, pre-season. Tommie Harris clearly wasn’t fit and ready to play all-season, except sporadically. So you’re starting the year in retrospect without your two starting DTs, effectively. By the second half of game one, we’re down 66% of our starting linebackers, including our talismanic defensive captain and play-caller. A rookie at SS and ineptitude at FS, an oft-injured Tillman …. how in the name of all that is good could we have had a good year on defense ? The little pass rush we did generate was very effective. With Tommie (hopefully) better this year, more of Izzy, the return of Pisa and Brian (Dusty?), perhaps we might even see poolman or Melton, we look pretty good up front. The lack of a fast DE leaves alternate applications of pressure open – blitzing – but things should be better even if nothing happens roster wise.

by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 23, 2010 1:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Singletary has a HC job

and the jury is very much out on his performance

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jan 31, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

an ex bear player won a superbowl as HC for the bears and i for one would welcome a repeat. so if ron rivera was to repeat this we couldnt be happier.we would also see chicago striving to beat teams in our division which sometimes i think has been overlooked.

by stepeo on Jan 31, 2010 4:03 AM CST reply actions  

Unfair.......

Lovie has been lax on a lot of things, but striving to win in the division isn’t one of them. He has a winning record against the Detroit and Green Bay and an even record against Minnesota. This hasn’t been a great division in some time, but Smith always seems to put extra emphasis on Division games and made beating Green Bay consistently a goal when he came in. I’m one of the first people to jump all over Smith, but not in this case.

Other than that, though, I agree with you. Rivera as HC wouldn’t bother me a bit.

Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.

Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.

by Timothy Hockemeyer on Jan 31, 2010 9:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Would be nice to get Rivera back.

Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.

I can't stand band-wagoner fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.

by JoeCB1991 on Jan 31, 2010 4:03 PM CST reply actions  

Rivera

Is overrated. Good but the SD defense lost to the JETS! I mean come on they are like the Ravens great D but the offense is just average. If RR was that great then they would have gone up against the Colts.

by T.Moore on Feb 1, 2010 1:59 PM CST reply actions  

I May Be Mistaken.............

But didn’t Rex Ryan’s Defense pretty much shut down the Sad Diego Offense in the second half of that game? I think that had more to do with the Jet’s winning then San Diego’e Defense. Just my opinion.

by Gesiakob on Feb 1, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

singletary would be way better than lovie or ron riveria

way better player translates to way better coach

grammer geeks you make me sick

by angryandy on Feb 22, 2010 9:55 AM CST reply actions  

Sean Payton ?

Couldn’t hack it in the NFL- except as a scab. Top Coach. Trying to think of great players that made great coaches. Ditka wasn’t a great coach – he wouldn’t even talk to his DC. That’s not professional. Almost any coach would have had a hard time not winning the Superbowl with an offense/defense he had at his disposal. Was Tony Dungy a great player ? Being a good player does not make you a good coach – those that can, do, those that can’t, teach.

by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 23, 2010 12:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Ex-Bear coaches. Bring Frazier back home ....

Caveat Emptor. Let the buyer beware. Let Singletary win before passing judgement on his coaching (which if you talk to Niner fans, is Lovie-like). What has Rivera shown us as a coach to lead you to believe he’d be a good head coach ? Leslie Frazier is a better choice for HC. Twenty years experience in the NFL and regularly has Minnesota’s D in good condition.

by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 23, 2010 12:48 AM CST reply actions  

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