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The Bears Den: November 4, 2010

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Omiyale-CWilliams-Kreutz-Garza-Webb... ladies and gents, your (probable) starting-5 OLinemen for the remainder of the season.

The most recent Q/A session between Larry Mayer and Jerry Angelo.

Sean Jensen brings us some quotes from Mike Tice on his OL.

John 'Moon' Mullin wonders what will happen if we lose to the Bills.

Mullin also points out how well the WRs have been playing this season.

Follow WCG on Twitter!

Star-divide

 

Bears assistant Gil Byrd: "I want him to have the best game of his career come Sunday … in a loss.''

Injury report from yesterday's practice; Bowman surprisingly not back.

David Haugh talks about the possibility that Cutler gets run out of town.

Featured article: Bob LeGere talks about Izzy Idonije's path to the gridiron.

Perhaps Garza has been the missing piece on the OL the last couple of weeks?

The complete press conference (transcript) yesterday from Brad Childress on Moss.

Who is the best player in the NFC North?

Featured article #2: A profile of Patriots owner Bob Kraft and his role in the league

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I am glad that the MSM...

is criticizing Cutler for his mistakes. He deserves his share of the blame for the offensive woes. But I have two issues to take up:

1. Mullin’s assertion that Cutler made a mistake on the goal line play that EVERYONE knows was a touchdown (except Lovie , of course). To my thoughts, it demonstrates what I think is Cutler’s biggest shortcoming to date; he isn’t freelancing enough. He may not have gone to the designed place, but he did make the play a success; I guess that doesn’t matter.

2. I studied the Wash loss video and I saw Cutler throwing to the correct spot on 3 of those interceptions. However, he should have adjusted (freelanced) his throw to a different spot based upon the WRs not going after the ball; i.e. he should have throw it where they were, not where they were supposed to be. Daryl Drake said none of the WRs ran a route incorrectly, but that’s just passing the buck. 3 of the INTs were catchable by the WRs if they had come back to the ball or continued on their routes. Yes, they ran the route to the proper spots, but they didn’t finish the plays off. So Cutler and the WRs BOTH have to make some small adjustments to fix the problem. As an aside, how can Mullins praise the WRs for being so great, but then trash Cutler for all of the INTs? Doesn’t a catch require both the QB and WR?

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 8:35 AM CDT reply actions  

Cutler is stubborn

but in the Martzfense the ball goes to a spot not the receiver because this is a timing offense.

by Justin T on Nov 4, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

and works wonders.

I’d just say it’s tough to run this offense when 5 and 7 steps drops don’t work because of the OL. We need a Shoop offense!

by celerysalt on Nov 4, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

no no no

i go to UNC, where shoop is now. you don’t want his offense.

by Nih1lus on Nov 4, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why would their position coach absolve them?
Daryl Drake said none of the WRs ran a route incorrectly, but that’s just passing the buck.

It absolutely makes zero sense for their future development. Maybe Knox’s pick where he just stood there in a deer in headlights look, but definitely not the other three. If the WR was supposed to be there, well then the timing is off just a tad like Martz has been saying.

"Wish the opposite sex operated like NFL redzone does. Just let me know when I’m about to score, otherwise, don’t bother me." - Jenn Sterger

by propheteer on Nov 4, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

The point I was making...

was about the fact that Drake can say they ran the proper route, but it doesn’t describe the whole truth of the matter. It’s like an electrician who says he wired the circuit properly, but didn’t flip on the breaker. The end result is no different than if he’d not wired it at all; no power. The WRs ran the correct route, but they didn’t finish the play. Drake isn’t lying, but being right doesn’t help solve the problem, it just passes the blame along. In a sense we agree on this.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Without further elaboration

it’s impossible to determine whether or not the WRs didn’t finish their routes. He did say they ran it properly, which should be construed as the entire route. Maybe it’s because Jay threw the ball too early. That could’ve definitely been the case on the Hester Int. He wasn’t even finished with his break and the ball was there for Hall to pick.

"Wish the opposite sex operated like NFL redzone does. Just let me know when I’m about to score, otherwise, don’t bother me." - Jenn Sterger

by propheteer on Nov 4, 2010 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hester just stood there....

waiting for the ball. Did you watch the same game I was watching? You are taught to come back to the ball in high school. That is basic fundamentals. Drake should be fired for how he has trained these guys. I am sick of the WRs’ not doing the basics, finishing routes, and coming back to the ball. Basic Crap! They do not get a pass from me. I am sick of all of the blame going on Cutler’s shoulders. He has to accept 25% of the blame. But the other 75% goes on to the rest of the offense.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I did.

From what I saw Hester didn’t have a chance to come back cause the ball was either thrown too early or Devin wasn’t running fast enough to get in and out of his break in time. What don’t you believe about Martz and Drake, the two most reliable sources, saying the WRs did what they were supposed to do?

"Wish the opposite sex operated like NFL redzone does. Just let me know when I’m about to score, otherwise, don’t bother me." - Jenn Sterger

by propheteer on Nov 4, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blowing Smoke.

Because they are blowing smoke up our arses. They this evasive game. They truly know that the WR are not quite there yet. However, Jay is not either but, he is still ahead of them with this offense. The WRs’ are still young with low self-esteem (personal opinion). Jay can handle the trash thrown at him. He lets it roll off his shoulders. Which he should, otherwise he would want to be traded with almost everyone bashing him. He’s got to be jealous watching Tom Brady get 6 – 8 seconds to throw the football.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

That play is the perfect example of everything that went wrong last Sunday.

Hall was jumping comebacks all damn day. Run a freaking double move. Fake the comeback and burn him. Hall wouldve been eating dirt the way he jumped every pass. But nope, let’s just keep running simple comebacks and streaks. Hell, if they’re just gonna run 2 routes they shoulda got Randy moss, at least he can put a body on a defender and win a jump ball. Hester and Knox don’t outsize anyone on the field except maybe the punter and kicker so they arent ever going to pull down a ball cutler just throws up (which he does a lot, because it worked a lot with Brandon Marshall)

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 11:20 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That gets to my complaints about Martz...

he’s not making the adjustments to the game plan that he could to help out. Let’s hope he can put his ego to bed for a week and show off his genius by calling plays that show he’s paying attention.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

The genius moniker needs to be put to bed indefinitely

The guy had 2 great years in st Louis with a hall of fame qb, 2 all pro wide receivers, an all pro halfback and the best left tackle to play the game in the last 20 years.

What did he do anywhere else or for the rest of his tenure in st Louis?

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 12:08 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I forgot to use my sarcasm font...

on the genius remark! ;<P

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lopey

This is his first season with the team. Give the man a break. None of us on this site could do any better with the talent that is on the offensive side of the ball.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nor do I claim I or anyone on here could.

Half these assholes wouldn’t be starting if I somehow did fall into an o-coordinator position anyway. But I’m not going to “give him a break” because he gets enough of a break from plenty of the media and fans alike and it’s because they’ve been duped into believing this guy is an offensive mastermind when in reality he got lucky to fall into an offense that was one of the best in the league. A lot of coaches could be good with Peyton manning, it’s the coaches who actually make their players better that are truly good and martz has not done that anywhere in his career.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 4:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

There's a reason he was available when we "got" him.

And a reason he didn’t coach an entire year. 31 other teams can’t be ALL wrong.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

So he could trade his entire draft for one player? Maybe...

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 5, 2010 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd trade an entire draft for another Walter Peyton

He looked like a good pick even though he came from a small school, but who could possibly known how great he would become.

by 62bearsthe best on Nov 5, 2010 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

he was referring to Ricky Williams

not to be a total jerk (or to be) reading some of your posts, I’m wondering if maybe you are reading stuff too fast and posting too quickly.

by jimribs on Nov 5, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Walter Peyton who was Deputy-Governor of – and Justice of the Peace for – County Leitrim, probably in the late 18th and early 19th centuries?

"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - Tom Coughlin, Giants '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~

by Spongie on Nov 5, 2010 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

QBs'

Many of the QB’s in this league have WRs that can go up and get the ball (See River, Eli, and Romo). Those are just a few that have that WR that they can throw a good pass into their area and their WR will make the play 7 out of 10 times, if nit it will mostly be an incomplete pass.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think DA goes up for the ball.

But they never use him

(Sing song)...Everybody Hates Rondo...

by T.Moore on Nov 5, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

We are on the same page.

I do think that Jay does try to make too many big plays with the WRs’ that we have. They are not the go p and get types. Maybe Aroma and Earl are the go up and get it types. Devin or Johnny are not. Jay justs needs to know what his WRs’ skill set is before he throws up the ball.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't mean to come off as a jerk about this, but...

how could any of us possibly know this?

I studied the Wash loss video and I saw Cutler throwing to the correct spot on 3 of those interceptions

In Pompei’s column, yesterday, interviews with both Drake and Martz said the WR’s didn’t make the mistakes.

by BearFan611 on Nov 4, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No jerkiness at all...

and you do make a valid point. Honestly, for a change, I am trying to look at the solutions to the failures on offense and it’s a bit of new territory for me. What I am getting at is that, from what I have seen of the throws, I believe Cutler is putting the ball in the correct window; roughly where it should be based upon what I can perceive is the place he expects the throw should go-using the assumption that Drake is correct that the WRs are running the proper routes. Starting there, I think 2 things need to improve for the Bears to have continued success:
1. Cutler must adjust his throws a bit to accommodate the slower timing of the WRs getting to their spots during game action as opposed to practice.
2. The WRs have to fight through the defender to get to that ball more consistently and meet Jay halfway.

One example of Jay being mostly at fault was the Hall INT that became the TD. Jay simply put too much air under the ball on that throw (or not enough velocity) and it gave Hall the chance to drive on the throw and out flank Knox and grab that pass. However, Knox consistently gets beat to the spot of the throw on too many slant patterns, like in the WASH game. Cutler, IMO, put the ball where it should be anticipating that Knox was going to complete his route at roughly the same speed as in practice. Knox held up and it got picked.

In the end, I think Jay and the WRs can get this right. Take the Hall pick on the throw to Hester. To me, Jay threw that ball a bit short and Hester faded a bit too deep on his cut. Hall jumped the route and picked it off. Cutler was under pressure but had time to throw and Hester was basically running the correct route, but didn’t do it crisply. If either guy just tightens up their mechanics on that throw/catch, either the ball gets up and Hester makes the grab or Hester is positioned in front of Hall to stop the INT/make the catch. It’s easy to say Hester ran the correct route on that and Jay underthrew it, but BOTH guys can help to make that a successful play. And it probably only takes one of them to do it.

As for Drake, I take everything he says with a grain of salt. He hasn’t show much ability to develop young talent. Knox and Hester still have some fundamental flaws to their basic WR skills. He’s not likely to say he’s done a bad job even when it’s obvious to me that he has.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can see where you're going with a lot of this and don't necessarily disagree.

Did you read the article in yesterday’s Sun Times with the Kurt Warner article. He talks about Jay not reacting quickly enough and the way I looked at it that indecision sometimes can make the receivers look like they are off. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there have been some instances where the WR’s have messed up but Jay seems to only look at one receiver on most routes. Warner is the person who I think has the most credibility when critiquing this system.

‘’From what I’ve seen up to this point, that’s where I see them missing it. Jay has always been a guy that could rely on his physical skills. He could let a guy come open and still get the ball there. Not everyone has that ability. This offense, because of the timing orientation of it, is built around taking a seven-step drop. On your first hitch, you throw to receiver A. If receiver A is not there, you go to receiver B, then receiver C. It’s set up that way to keep the spacing of the offense and allow that spacing to give you big plays.’’

by BearFan611 on Nov 4, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many more games

before CW is an “official” bust? Already is in my mind, jsut wondering you guy’s thoughts.

by jimribs on Nov 4, 2010 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

I tend to look at draft picks a bit differently...

than some (many) others. I figure that if the guy is a quality starter for a team he’s worth whatever he gets paid. If he’s a first round guy or a sixth round guy that can contribute in a consistent and meaningful way, the pay kind works itself out. I hate to entangle money in the equation because there are usually guys who are just as “underpaid” as those who are “overpaid”. Most NFL teams can meet their payroll and run a profitable business; no matter what “difficulties” the CBAs pose. The question, not to put too fine a point on it, then becomes, is said guy a quality starter, no matter what his draft/pay status is. In the case of Chris Williams, I agree with you, he’s not a quality starter for this Bears offensive line. He’s probably a spot starter/back-up at best. In my book, that makes him a “bust”. Now he could turn things around, but it’s obvious he’s not a consistent performer at tackle and he’s not shown much at guard either. Where his draft status does become an issue is how much longer do the Bears hold on to the belief that he will improve. The clock is ticking.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

You have to take into account the round a guy is picked.

If you bust in the 6th round it wont hurt you very much because most guys in that round aren’t going to be difference makers (sometimes you do get lucky and that’s just gravy). But if you bust in the first 2 rounds it can be killer, especially if you do it multiple years as the bears have. There is so much talent in the first 2 rounds, a lot of pro bowl caliber guys as well as solid solid starters up there that if you pick the busts it can really hurt your ability to stock your team with young talent.

The Williams pick was dumb anyway, blow a top 15 pick on a lineman with a screwed up back and has to miss 3/4 of his rookie year. You could get that in the 2nd or 3rd round as an injury risk upside pick. Angelo blows.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 11:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Meant that with sarcasm

He was a terrible draft pik period.

by jimribs on Nov 4, 2010 4:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wait a moment?

THAT was sarcasm!!
Thanks for clarifying ;)

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

once in a blue moon

i wonder what the likes of bazuin, okwo, airese currie and other complete washouts are doing for a living these days.

by reefermadness3 on Nov 5, 2010 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bragging to every single woman they meet

that they once played professional football. Cause that’s what I’d do….

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 5, 2010 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am just taking a broader view of the acquisition of talent...

If you get 4 players out of any draft that are quality starters, then you are likely to be viewed as being successful in the draft. You might argue that if they are lower round guys it costs less money, but on balance across the payroll it’s usually a negligible difference. Does it really matter what round they are from? The Bears have missed all over the draft, not just the first/second-round. That’s why they are lacking in depth.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well I agree with your assessment of a successful draft.

And yes, the bears are missing all over which accouts for their lack of depth. But depth can be found on the free agent market and from lucky late round picks, but you cannot get stud players in free agency every year (we got peppers but who did we get before that? Moose?) so you really need to hit the first 2 rounds to keep running starters through your system, do that and depth will come.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 12:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Stability

The problem with Chris Williams is has been moved around too much to actually develop properly.

First RT, then LT, then LG …. how can any guy learn consistently?

I think he did ok at RT, and would be much further along if we’d just kept in there. I think Webb will be a Terrance Pennington, a 7th rounder taken by the Bills, who started as a rookie but then got cut at the end of his first year.

Move Williams back to RT alongside Garza and keep him there.

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

by Black-sheep on Nov 4, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Umm - Manning Syndrome?

CW is still a kid. He’s only in his first year with a quality OL Coach and Mentor. I had hoped last year even if Orlando Pace was a bust a LT at the very least he could mentor CW – that didn’t happen in spite of the fact Pace spent no time on his technique apparently.

The biggest thing our team has been lacking is good coaching. Good Coaches get the most of players no matter what their ability is. A good great coach will always raise the level of play for a player who is dedicated to improving. It seems most of our young guys are. Lovie Dovie’s lack of “demonstrated” fire and unwillingness to demand accountability really hurts players and position coaches ability to improve.

CW is not a bust yet, he’s got a couple more years before a fair evaluation can be made.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha

Oh you lost me at “quality o-line coach”. Sure his line was good in minny because they signed one of the best lineman of the last 15 years away from another team when he was in his prime. Tice didn’t have crap to do with that line.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 11:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah, if everyone's playing the Blame Game

Why is no one mentioning Tice? Biggest acquisition bust of the year. This guy was supposed to mold our guys into a Pro-Bowl line and have them gel and all that. Everything else has worked at one point or another, the D is playing well under Hot Rod, the offense has shown promise w/ Martz but the O-line has been terrible from the get-go!

"I feel like the pieces are in place. But we have to execute...It's about execution. You have to execute. You have to have a scheme that facilitates the strengths of your players. If it doesn't, then it's a bad scheme. It's that simple. So we feel real good about the parts in place on offense."

"We feel very good about this football team. We felt very good about our football teams in the past and it's no different. You've got to go out there and you've got to do it."
-Jerry Angelo, Aug. 2, 2010

by Sam Householder on Nov 4, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lopey...

As stated further up the blog about Martz, Tice came to a team with a terrible O-line and you expect him to work miracles in half a season. Come on man, be realistic about this. It takes time to build a solid O-line. It usually does not happen over night.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

When you mold a pile of crap into a better pile of crap

There ain’t much difference.

My point is/was that it’s way too soon to tell. Tice, I think, will pay dividends – eventually. Is he a bust as an OL Coach? Can you name a better one we’ve had in Chicago?

I’ve been saying for weeks there is a major disconnect in the coaching department. Either these guys can’t coach, or the players are un-coachable. So I want to have it both ways, he’s probably a good coach, but his effectiveness has not fully revealed itself. Or our guys are talentless sacks of feces – Which no matter how you pile them, still stink.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

You and Manding are probably right

Plus, I think a lot of this still comes back on JA. He’s the one giving the coaching staff sub-par talent w/ which to work. You can’t turn crap into gold, but you can’t make a something else good without something talented to begin with (weak analogy for that part).

"I feel like the pieces are in place. But we have to execute...It's about execution. You have to execute. You have to have a scheme that facilitates the strengths of your players. If it doesn't, then it's a bad scheme. It's that simple. So we feel real good about the parts in place on offense."

"We feel very good about this football team. We felt very good about our football teams in the past and it's no different. You've got to go out there and you've got to do it."
-Jerry Angelo, Aug. 2, 2010

by Sam Householder on Nov 4, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

The problem with Williams...

is that he simply sucks ass. Yes, he has physical talent, but he’s gutless and unmotivated. He’s too slow and casual to play LT, he’s too much of a pansy to play RT and he’s too lackadaisical to play guard. Physically he should be a LT, i.e. why he was drafted. But his non-physical game is utterly absent. It takes a special guy to make one long for the days John StClair filled that position.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE (IT'S BACK BABY!)!!!

"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"

by LostInSTL on Nov 4, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kreutz needs to flick CW in the fleshy patch before each game.

A la The 40-Year-Old Virgin. That oughta put some fire in his belly.

by oripunk3485 on Nov 4, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

listening to the beat guys, apparently he’s not even int he top five of linemane talent wise anymore. but he’s the first round pick.

by mike b on Nov 4, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

These articles are all trending negative.

The “what if” game abounds. Running around screaming like little girls “THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING” does not contribute to meaningful evaluation of the Bears situation.

Could the Bears lose to the Bills? Perhaps, highly unlikely – given they are well rested and even when playing mistake laden football are still in the games late.

Will the new GM trade Cutler? Again, unlikely – his upside is too great and finding another player with his skill set would be extremely difficult.

The sky ain’t fallin’ – yet.

As an organization this team needs to step up. Coaches need to teach and develop, players need to listen, learn and implement. Basically I’m saying we haven’t looked very professional. But that’s no reason to panic.

We may be outmanned and outgunned in some games – especially some upcoming ones. IF that’s a big if, we can play a more mistake free brand of football the Bears can prevail. Have we not won games we should have lost? Further, lost games we should have won?

I believe if they just calm down and play the game they are capable of playing, this team can be good, not great, but good. We are still talent deficient in many places.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

I tend to agree.

Things look really bleak, but who’s to say the team doesn’t actually get better. We have a pretty good defense and real good special teams (although Maynard has me scared lately) if our offense could be mediocre (how many years are we going to say that?) I think they could squeak out some games this year.

by jimribs on Nov 4, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Highly unlikely we lose to the bills?

The bills may be 0-7 but the last 3 weeks they have taken playoff teams to the brink. We lost to Seattle at home and Seattle never wins on the road. The bears will be lucky to be favored by 3 1/2 points this week vs buffalo.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 9:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bears coming off a bye

and playing a winless team at a neutral site… Bears win big.

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Last?

Nope, I’ll speak again regardless!

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

ok you got me there

I just meant saying the Bears win big and then end up losing a heartbreaker – while hugely disappointing – could happen if they overlook a winless Bills team.

by junkhorse on Nov 4, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

overlooking a team coming out of the bye week

is unfathomable… even for a Lovie Smith team.

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unfathomable?

Are we not terrible coming out of bye weeks. Or am I missing something?

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

No you're not missing anything

Historically, we suck/blow after a bye.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's their record after bye weeks?

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think they're under .500 after the bye with Smith

That’s pretty fricking pathetic. Give Lovie 2 weeks to prepare for one game and he loses half of them. Poor coaching. I hope we buck the trend for the good.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

the last 3 years they've won after their bye

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

They lost to Atlanta last year.

They’re 3-3 last 6 years. – I am incorrect – SH&t.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

check that...

My original stat was I pulled from a 2009 chalk talk

They are 13-8 all time after their bye according to this

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Damnit Man

Why must you always be right.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I try...

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Under Lovie I believe we're under 500 following a bye.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

the same issues they had two weeks ago are still there. buffalo is playing well. i would not be suprised by a bears loss.

by mike b on Nov 4, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's what I like to hear!

Optimism not negativity. Heads up guys. We can still pull this out.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Martz will run the ball more, cutting down on the sacks and mistakes by Jay, we'll win and look good doing it

but then Martz/Cutler will get full of themselves again and screw up the following week against the Vkings. I look for Adrian Peterson to have a huge day against us. Unfortunately, it seems to be the recipe for Lovie’s teams over the last few years to not be able to maintain any momentum or come up big in big games.

by BearFan611 on Nov 4, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

We won't be a legit

Super Bowl contender until Lovie and Angelo are gone.

by Justin T on Nov 4, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

That and 3-4 more studs on offense

A younger defense, 3 Big Macs and an Extra Large Fry.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

O-line and D-line

We need to draft two O-line men, one D-tackle, one big athletic WR, and a CB. They can do what they want with the rest of the picks.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Call me crazy but...

I still think the talent is all there. OK, the O-line as currently manned is probably only capable of being serviceable at best, but you can get by with that. I think the Super Bowl contender status comes from our D and special teams. In my humble opinion the offense just needs to… groan… manage the game better and not turn the damn ball over so often!

Good/great D and special teams, gunslinger QB, good RBs, good WRs, good TE… we just need Tice to get the O-line a bit more functional. I’m feeling strangely optimistic about the rest of this year.

by oripunk3485 on Nov 4, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're crazy.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is Crazy...

But I like! You stare adversity in the face and punch right in the mouth and don’t stop punching it until you know it can not harm you anymore.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or until you break your hand.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, he told me to call him crazy, so....

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Trade Cutler..

That would be catastrophic. Angelo or Lovie is not going anywhere. They will be here next season. We just need to fix a couple of problems through the draft.

Even if they do leave after next season and a new regime comes in, they would be extremely wrong to get rid of Cutler or Martz.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Moss is simply too old and overrated.

Why sign a guy for 8 games who would takes reps away from a talented, young and DEVELOPING WR corps?

He still has skills, but he’s not really a HUGE upgrade to the group we are fielding now.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's not the protections it's the execution

From Jensen’s story:

Meanwhile, Tice insisted his players aren’t overwhelmed by the number of protections.

It’s not that they don’t know what they’re doing … they just don’t know how to do it.

by junkhorse on Nov 4, 2010 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Cutler to Redskins stories

….. are going to increase as the season progresses.

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

by Black-sheep on Nov 4, 2010 10:15 AM CDT reply actions  

3 Firsts, a 2nd and Kyle Shanahan.

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

a 1st a 2nd a 3rd

and a Sex Cannon

One time while a young lad, someone made fun of the Ditka name. One time.

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 4, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

if we get the sex cannon

do we even need any of said picks. He throws deep don’tcha know.

by jimribs on Nov 4, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Take no less than one 1st rounder

His value is down, but not down to the point of absurdity.

"Wish the opposite sex operated like NFL redzone does. Just let me know when I’m about to score, otherwise, don’t bother me." - Jenn Sterger

by propheteer on Nov 4, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

BLASPHEMER!!!

A single 1st rounder?? Turn in your sweater vest!!

If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.

by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Nov 4, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have one

but I can buy one, then you can seize it from my clutches. ;)

"Wish the opposite sex operated like NFL redzone does. Just let me know when I’m about to score, otherwise, don’t bother me." - Jenn Sterger

by propheteer on Nov 4, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Completely Agree!!

Why would we trade the most talented QB the Bears have ever had. Build the offense around him and we will succeed. We trade him to the Skins and he will become the All Pro QB that he should of became here. This is crazy talk.

by Mandingo54 on Nov 4, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

New management, new ideas

I know you don’t think Angelo or Smith aren’t going anywhere, but even the owners realise lame duck status won’t help the team. They didn’t cut ties with Smith last year because it meant paying out $10m+ …. half that is far more bareable.

And new management may have new ideas …. a new coach might think he can fix Cutler’s problems,

OR

may decide that he want’s to go his own way.

Cutler may become an All Pro QB … or Jeff George Mk2. The jury is still out.

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

by Black-sheep on Nov 4, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

how long you gonna keep beating this dead horse?

First of all, we should do a poll and see if anyone thinks Angelo/Lovie will be back next year. Then you will know if we think they will be back.

Second, Jeff George had a better career than 19 out of the last 20 Chicago QB’s (excluding Cutler). George stank at running a west coast offensive and every time he got settled somewhere a new coach would come in and install a west coast offense.

by 62bearsthe best on Nov 5, 2010 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

1st and a 2nd in 2012

… may elicit interest from any new management/coaching team – the Redskins don’t have a 3rd (Saints for Barron) or a 4th (Eagles for McNabb) and would probably want to target a NT in R2

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

by Black-sheep on Nov 4, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you

I asked David Haugh about this and he DM’d me on Twitter and told me no way we get back what we gave “Trades are like cars. Value goes down minute you make deal.” He said a good return would be a 1st and a 3rd. I don’t support trading Cutler but if that deal came a long and it was a relatively high pick (top 15, top 12 preferably) then pull the trigger. Especially if it was before 2012 draft, when the QB class is DEEP.

"I feel like the pieces are in place. But we have to execute...It's about execution. You have to execute. You have to have a scheme that facilitates the strengths of your players. If it doesn't, then it's a bad scheme. It's that simple. So we feel real good about the parts in place on offense."

"We feel very good about this football team. We felt very good about our football teams in the past and it's no different. You've got to go out there and you've got to do it."
-Jerry Angelo, Aug. 2, 2010

by Sam Householder on Nov 4, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is perfect
Cutler doesn’t need a trade to save his NFL life or the Bears from himself. He needs an intervention.
He plays like someone who either hasn’t been coached or is no longer willing to be. So coach him. Challenge him. Force greatness that is there.

Hmm…

Fitzpatrick said the offense puts a lot of responsibility on the quarterback.

"Wish the opposite sex operated like NFL redzone does. Just let me know when I’m about to score, otherwise, don’t bother me." - Jenn Sterger

by propheteer on Nov 4, 2010 10:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Too bad our coach is a wimp

Who would rather be adored by his players than get in their ass and win games. Cutler needs an intimidating presence at head coach and lovie dovie sure as heck isn’t one.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 11:30 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I heard Kurt Warner last week on

Rich Eisen’s podcast and he was saying how Martz never yells at the starting QB (he said several coaches do this, including Norv Turner). He yells at the back-ups for the mistakes Cutler is actually doing and then would tell Cutler later, hey fix what I was saying to the other guys. This way the team won’t lose confidence in the starter.

But that’s total BS. Cutler needs to be hammered for his lazy mechanics and such. COACH him. He can take it, don’t coddle him.

"I feel like the pieces are in place. But we have to execute...It's about execution. You have to execute. You have to have a scheme that facilitates the strengths of your players. If it doesn't, then it's a bad scheme. It's that simple. So we feel real good about the parts in place on offense."

"We feel very good about this football team. We felt very good about our football teams in the past and it's no different. You've got to go out there and you've got to do it."
-Jerry Angelo, Aug. 2, 2010

by Sam Householder on Nov 4, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

if true

that may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. “Hanie you bastard! Jay threw another pick! All on you dawg!”

by jimribs on Nov 4, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Holy hell.

The bears have got it made. Make millions, easiest training camp and practices in the NFL (and probably college and high school) and your coaches baby you and never yell at you. No wonder nothing ever changes. I’d be scared to see what this team were like if we had quiet players instead of urlacher and kreutz, probably be a lot like Dallas with their team of no leaders.

by lopey986 on Nov 4, 2010 12:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

The thing that I don't get

Is that Angelo gives us the rhetoric that continuity on the O-line is more important that individual talent (hence hoping we overlook that he doesn’t draft O-linemen). If that’s the case then why do we have this continuous shifting around of the O-Line? Yes I know Garza was injured but Kruetz is the only guy who hasn’t shifted position yet. How in the heck are these guys supposed to develop any skill at the position if they play a different one every other week? Isn’t that what training camp is for?

by TheotherDane on Nov 4, 2010 5:07 PM CDT reply actions  

Your name is beginning to grow on me.

I’d like to see it as TheoTheRDane so you would then become Theo the R Dane in my head but I have “quirks”. Have you been to a Bears training camp? What they do (at least publicly) is less (physically) challenging than the practice I see at the high school I work at. No hitting, practice late when it gets hot, and everyone who matters is too “hurt” to practice every day. You can’t evaluate crap when it comes to the established talent. I think that trend is growing in the NFL however.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing wrong with a few quirks. :)

No, I’ve never seen a training camp. That explains a bit. I have read (on here many times) that the real work of the linemen doens’t begin until pads are on, and even then activity is curtailed to prevent injury. I guess I’m just a bit surprised that with a knowledgable coach like Tice we don’t have it ironed out yet as to who is best where. I suppose I should be greateful they’re trying to make adjustments instead of taking a “Rex is our quarterback” attitude. I just hope the musical positions finds a good tune soon.

by TheotherDane on Nov 4, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Poetic
I just hope the musical positions finds a good tune soon.

Given the track record of our current coaching staff and our moronic GM I’d have to say that this is unlikely.

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, and Tice looked very "hands on" and knowledgeable at training camp.

It (O-line practice) was actually the part of camp I was impressed with most. Not sure where the actual evaluation went wrong. Must start with player contracts i.e. Jerry Angelo….

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

the optimist in me would say

that blind squirrel has got to find that nut sooner or later. might as well start this sunday.

by reefermadness3 on Nov 5, 2010 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bullshit!

I gather Walter Payton isn’t going to be #1 on the list due to the fact that the fan voting on nfl.com is down to this
Jim Brown
Peyton Manning
Joe Montana
Jerry Rice
Lawrence Taylor

I would only consider Jim Brown to actually be higher, although i would entertain debates of Rice and Taylor…but i say again Bullshit…open thread or not

"I'd rather have an ugly win than an ugly loss. Yeah, they had a lot of yards, but yards don't mean crap. Points do." -Brian Urlacher

by BearNecessities on Nov 4, 2010 5:50 PM CDT reply actions  

You are correct.

This is some type of bovine manure. Especially because as much as I love LT (THE LT) he was a coke head and how many of his sacks were “enhanced”?

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Nov 4, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

I didn’t see the entire finale show, but I know they chose Rice as #1. Where did Payton rank? I suppose it doesn’t matter as any joker who thinks Peyton Manning is better than Walter Payton is totally daft. Their list is way off.

by TheotherDane on Nov 4, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not as bad as I thought.

But I still think Walter Payton should have been ranked higher. (above Taylor) Here’s the list:

http://top100.nfl.com/?module=HP_cp2

Sweetness is 5th. Butkis is 10th. Only the 49ers and the Bears have 2 players in the top 10.

by TheotherDane on Nov 5, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Crap

Correction. Colts also.

by TheotherDane on Nov 5, 2010 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well I guess Peter King was on the panel

So any credibility the panel may have had is gone for me. Walter at least top 3, he’ll even JimB Brown knows he was the best football player not just RB. Jerry Rice may be the greatest WR but not the best football player.

David Taylor's personal hype man. Check out his website unless you're a loser. http://www.cheekymonkeyart.com/

by Ditkavsworld on Nov 5, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

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