Toxic Differential says Bears will miss the playoffs
I feel like I watch my fair share of the NFL Network, but somehow I've managed to miss Brian Billick and Jim Mora talking about Toxic Differential. I stumbled across the following article on nfl.com by Elliot Harrison, Who is playoff-bound? 'Toxic differential' tells tale, and was glued to my computer screen. I'm a fan of the 'think outside the box' type statistical analysis and found this one to be really eye opening. After the jump I'll get more into this measurement for success, but here's how Harrison described the formula;
It's the measure of how many big plays (20-plus yards) teams create minus how many they give up. It also includes turnovers forced versus those given up. Basically, it's a risk-reward stat. And it's become quite the prognosticator of what is and isn't playoff football.
Billick is know league wide as kind of geeky when it comes to his stats, if there were a football sabermetrics seminar, Billick would be front row center. He started looking at different ways to gauge his teams success and coined the phrase 'Toxic Differential' back in 1998 while on staff in Minnesota. Mora used a similar system for his teams, and asked them to get the 'double positive'.
What ever you call it, it's quite effective it determining playoff teams.
When a team is on the right side of the toxic differential, let the good times roll. Last year, eight of the top 10 teams in this quirky but damn accurate category made the playoffs. That's pretty solid. The 11th team, the Jets, made it as well. In 2008, every team in the top 10 made the playoffs. Every... last... one.
The Bears have the right philosophy offensively and defensively to have a favorable ranking. Offensively they have a stretch the field offense with speed in key places and on defense their bend but don't break style is all predicated on keeping the play in front of you and eliminating the big gainer.
The article lists the top 10 in Toxic Differential for this season (as seen at the bottom of this post), and the Bears are nowhere to be found. They are a +3 in turnover differential, which is good for 11th in the league. But it's the big play differential that dooms them.
Offensively they have 31 pass plays over 20 yards good for a 27th place tie, and in the run game they've racked up 7 plays over 20 yards. Hardly what you would call a big play offense. Compare that to the #1 Chargers and their 56 big pass plays and the Giants and their 18 big run plays.
Defensively they rank a bit better. In the passing game they rank 9th, with just 33 twenty yard plus plays against them. But vs. the the run, they've allowed 12 such plays, good for only 26th. In rushing yards allowed the Bears do rank 2nd behind the Steelers, but Pittsburgh has had only had 1 run play against them over 20 yards. That's crazy good.
So if my math is correct, offensively they have made 38 big plays and defensively they have allowed 45 big plays, for a -7. Add in the +3 for turnover differential and we're looking at a not so good -4. Now I realize the Bears have four more games to improve on this number, and with the offense seemingly improving I suppose anythings possible... but so far, so not so good.
Then consider that three of the remaining four teams the Bears play are on the list below, and even more playoff doubt creeps in. I guess there's always the Troy Aikman Efficiency Ratings to go by. Through week 12 the Bears D ranks a solid #2 behind the Steelers. But Wait... their offense is a mere 29th... Oh well, stats are stupid anyway. Bear Down and Go Bears!!!
|
Highest toxic differential this season |
||||
|
Team |
Turnover diff. |
Big-play diff. |
Toxic diff. |
W-L |
|
1. Steelers |
+11 |
+26 |
+37 |
9-3 |
|
2. Eagles |
+15 |
+15 |
+30 |
8-4 |
|
3. Bolts |
-5 |
+32 |
+27 |
6-6 |
|
4. Giants |
-1 |
+25 |
+24 |
8-4 |
|
5. Bucs |
+9 |
+11 |
+20 |
7-5 |
|
6. Packers |
+8 |
+6 |
+14 |
8-4 |
|
6. Patriots |
+14 |
E |
+14 |
10-2 |
|
8. Falcons |
+10 |
+2 |
+12 |
10-2 |
|
9. Chiefs |
+7 |
+4 |
+11 |
8-4 |
|
10. Jets |
+4 |
+5 |
+9 |
9-3 |
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Comments
And completely skewed...
Without considering Defensive and Special Teams scores…
Unreasonable people make life difficult...
by WisBearsFan34 on Dec 9, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
And completely ignoring injury... late season improvments...
and dramatic changes in the offence/defence…
I’ll take a look at each team since week 8. We’ll see where they are now…
Getting into the playoffs isn’t as important is winning in the playoffs either. The Bears over the past 5 weeks really righted the course. _
Hence, I’ll take a look from the past couple of years and post the results of differences in late season surges.
Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...
by awfullyquiet on Dec 9, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
On offense, the Bears offense is ranked very low for the season, but I believe just over the last few games, they’re in the top half of the league in total offense (someone correct me if I’m wrong).
Stats take on slightly different value at different points of the season, especially in the last few games. Also, every trend has an exception (see 2002 Bucs),
Stats can be very interesting, but may not tell us much in the larger scheme of things.
On a completely unrelated note, GO BEARS!
by NorthSideBearsFan on Dec 9, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
Defense scores
would be considered in the turnovers. The more turnovers the morel likely a defensive score.
Last year 5 of the top 10 rushing teams,
the teams that play ball control, missed the playoffs
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Rushing teams aren't necessarily ball control teams either.
And not all passing teams aren’t ball control…
Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...
agreed
but when we think ball control we tend to think run the ball and short controlled passes
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Statistics.
Stats like this are terrific for analyzing trends and making generalizations. It’s important to realize that historically, explosive offenses really do end up in the playoffs more often than ball-control offenses, and a defense that limits those big plays is often more successful than one that can stifle an offense, but is prone to mental errors that cost big yards/points. But they’re totally irrelevant when it comes to determining anything specific. The broad data here is useful, but it’s meaningless in individual instances.
Meaningless?
when 9 of the top 11 made the playoffs last year and the year prior every team in the top ten made the playoffs, I’d say it’s a good representation of teams with playoff aspirations.
With that being said I hope the Bears can buck the trend.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Joe Morgan disagrees.
And he called you a nerd.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
Joe Morgan is a tool
So I’m ok with that
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 11, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, but most importantly
he’s an unemployed tool.
"The time has come to get deeply into Football. It is the only thing we have left that ain't fixed." - HST
I saw this too... very intersting way of looking at things.
I was looking at the standings earlier, and the remaining schedules of different NFC teams, and realized that we really do need to win the North. The wild card slots are very, very likely going to be awarded to the East and the South.
If we do end up tieing with Green Bay
The tiebreaker goes to most wins in division right? What if that’s the same, then it goes to record against common opponents. Basically it means We have to beat the Jets and Vikings, and they have to lose to the Giants for us to really have a shot IF we end up tieing in the division, this is going to be close either way but with a 1 game definetly has us in a good spot for now. What i wouldn’t give for a loss to Detroit this weekend to ease my mind…
by Chitownproduct on Dec 9, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
here are the tiebreakers
TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.
Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss
from nfl.com
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
I would have one captain from each team step forward for Paper, Scissors, Rock. Televised.
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - Tom Coughlin, Giants '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Would there be replays? Penalties for false starts?
Coaches penalized for taping “Rock, Paper, Scissors” walk-throughs?
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I’d expect Lovie to throw a flag for “Shooting after 3 and not on 3.”
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 9, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
True, you’d have to take into account false starts, illegal procedures, etc.
Clearly, I did not think this through properly!
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - Tom Coughlin, Giants '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Chiefs, Bucs, and Bolts. Really!
Stats can be manipulated and disected 1,000,000 ways. “Luckily”, for the Bears, at the end of the day, all that matters is wins vs. loses. We’re in first. We beat the likes of the Eagles(when they we’re beating the brakes off everybody else). The Packers, whom we also beaten. Somehow all the “Experts” still rank them ahead of Da Bears. The Jets are who I thought they were. Still can’t beat a team with a winning record. After being exposed by the Pats, everyone is jumping off their bandwagon. Anyway, 3-1 in the last four games for a 12-4 record and all the toxic differential will be water under the bridge.
It's the same reason FO hates the Bears
We’ve been consistently in the bottom half of their DVOA ratings because of mediocre offensive play. But, yes, wins are the only stat that matters, and Lovie’s Bears have always been a “make one more play than the other guys” sort of team – the Bears don’t need an overwhelming offense to succeed in this system.
by Steve Ronkowski on Dec 9, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
To add
I would think Lovie would take 4 5-yard runs and the 2 minutes of clock time that would run off over one 10-second, 20-yard pass play.
by Steve Ronkowski on Dec 9, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
But the real thing is:
Does doing that add more value… I know there’s simulators out there that look at individual plays Delta in a teams individual chances to win a game…
The answer is… I don’t have one.
Five foot three seems to thrive on his misery...
It's interesting from a stats viewpoint....
But, not really new information to us, considering we’ve been following this team all year long, and know we have 4 really tough games to finish the season. It’s very possible we split the 2, or better… but it’s also realistic for us to go 1-3 and miss the playoffs.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Sorry I didn't bring any new info to the table...
I’ll try harder next time out…
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
LOL...
I’m sure you understood what I meant. Cool stats, but I don’t need statistical analysis or a magic 8 ball to tell me that the Bears may miss the playoffs.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
yeah...
To me it was just an interesting trend. And it makes sense with the NFL becoming QB driven league, the teams that are get off the bus run 1st teams aren’t having as much success.
Five of the top 10 rushing teams from 09 missed the playoffs.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
When Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel are throwing for 300 yards every week
You know the league has changed. For better or worse.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Orton is the best!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
At what?
I like Orton, nice kid, puts up solid numbers, but he’ll always be considered a “journeyman” type of QB.
Good guy to have as a backup if you can’t land a Cutler, Brady, or Manning.
If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.
by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Dec 9, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
K got it, had to smack meself upside the ole noggin.
If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.
by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Dec 9, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
at growing a neck beard
All women are beautiful when the lights are off!
by touchdown bears on Dec 9, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
I like stats as much as the next geek
These are truly interesting analysis. As ardent observers of our season, we all know and I think understand that these numbers are really skewed.
Call me nuckin futz, but aren’t we playing 200% better since the bye? Couple that with two games QB’d by a statue/tackling dummy. You may as well consider stats only from 10 games. We had two games where we were so bad – well, we were sooooooooo bad.
If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.
by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Dec 9, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Skewed
This statistic is skewed. The big this about the Bears this year is when they give up these big plays is that they do no go for touchdowns, our two deep safeties can make tackles, unlike many other teams in the league. In actuality our defense should be quite a bit better in that respect. Also don’t forget about our special teams play, which give us considerably better field position.
by Captain Kangaroo on Dec 9, 2010 11:52 AM CST reply actions
What would happen if we were to add special teams stats to this Toxic Differential?
By using 30+ yard KR and 20+ yard PR as the metric. Would that skew the TD in our favor? I think it would.
BTW, I’m using 30 yards for KR because taking a kick from 2-3 yards deep to the 20 has become fairly commonplace, while taking it out to the 30 much less so.
OK Professor Doshi, get on it!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
I was just wondering the exact same thing.
Bears have really excelled in their special teams play, and the field position edge that that brings us needs to be reflected in the “Big Play” index. Get on it!
I wonder what happens if you factor in a team's penalty habits?
If you can be reasonably disciplined and not shoot yourself in the foot all the time, it doesn’t propel you to greatness, but on the converse, if you rack and stack the penalties, all those big gains and big stops get somewhat neutralized (ask the Packers).
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The only stats u should look at is
Points for or points allowed…Thats all the matters…You can allow 400 yards a game and give up 16 pts..I rest my point.Look at all your Qbs that will throw all these yards and wont make the playoffs..lol..Bottom line great D’s win games in the playoffs and your not even talking about special teams.? How manyt imes have we had big runbacks.?
Flak Jacket
Lester, I’m sending one to you right now.
Nice write-up! We don’t have to like stats or even accept them, but they are indicators. When they indicate specific tendencies pointing out some startling truths, they can be scary. A few things the toxic differential does not take into account:
- The Manatee
- Lance Briggs’ MoHawk
- Virginia McCaskey doing the Macarena nude before each home game
once again, nice work
mz
"Da Coach could part Lake Michigan by touching it with his big toe. The sod at Soldier Field could be repaired by simply planting a Ditka hair" - Chuck Norris
Please tell me that you don't really know she does this.
Because if this really is true, you, sir, have successfully blown my mind.
- Virginia McCaskey doing the Macarena nude before each home game
by Steven Schweickert on Dec 9, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
yeah...
I never took those into consideration.
I should have just wrote a piece titled, The Bears are F’N Awesome!!!!!!!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Your next assignment.
If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.
by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Dec 9, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
If I get permission to use F'N in the title I sure as heck will!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
You have my permission.
When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.
- Aldous Snow
by Ditkavsworld on Dec 10, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
That's all I ever title mine...
Or Happy Joy Bear’s Land……
If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.
Virginia McCaskey doing the Macarena nude before each home game.
- I think I just threw up a little.
All women are beautiful when the lights are off!
by touchdown bears on Dec 9, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
can she do the egyptian instead
for a couple reasons, none of which i should explain here as i would like to stay a member of this board.
by reefermadness3 on Dec 10, 2010 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
She bends but she doesn't break.
Jake is right, we did have a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
by Chauncey Baker on Dec 9, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
toxic differential stat analysis
…is akin to mental masturbation
does not reflect reality but distorts it to fit the occasion.
the mistake a lot of people make is to make something simple, complex.
it’s football and the team that executes the best on the day of the gam will win.
make Brady hurt so bad that his wood isn’t limber even if Giselle begs him for it on hands and knees
there is your key to the game.
GO BEARS!!
"I am a sinner who does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official." - Francis Wolcott
The difficulty with stats in general...
is that they are about things that have already occurred. They can be a way to quantify what has happened so that comparison may be done. Most people are happy to use them to say one thing is comparatively better than the other and that’s it. Bragging rights if you will. But the problem is of what use are they?
The ONLY stat that matters in the NFL is wins and losses.
Now if you can use the equations involved to inform you as to what problems to solve and then how to solve them, well then that’s one thing. But what I can glean from this article is good teams make big plays on offense and defense. Is that some sort of revelation? Does it help to predict why these teams have the big plays or how to get more of them? No.
Isn’t this just a big numerical Maddenism like, “the team that scores more points will win.”???
I'd prefer not to have Lovie return...Unless we win the SB baby!!!!
"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"
"I am serious... and don't call me Shirley." Leslie Nielson 1926-2010
Boooring!.........
Woo-Hoo…..I said Woo Hoo.
I'd prefer not to have Lovie return...Unless we win the SB baby!!!!
"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"
"I am serious... and don't call me Shirley." Leslie Nielson 1926-2010
"Statistics are for losers."
—Adam Vinatieri
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
60% of the time it works everytime.
-Bryan Fantana on the effects of Sex Panther.
When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke a furry wall.
- Aldous Snow
by Ditkavsworld on Dec 10, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
the problem with the stat is that it is an imperfect proxy for other things
Yes, it’s measuring is big play ability and prevention, but there are a lot of ways to do that and this isn’t necessarily the best. giving up a few big runs while stuffing most runs is different than giving up a lot of 5-6 yard runs. Giving up big runs in general is different than giving up big passes – these things mean different things on a team. Also, 20 yards is somewhat arbitrary – what about 15 yards? or 25?
How many teams who have bad toxic differentials have made it to 9 and 3? how have they fared?
I wouldn’t put too much into the stat in terms of ability to make the playoffs – i would take it as a confirmation of what many of us already know – which is that this team pretty good, but is not explosive on offense, or as dominant on defense as they should be.
I guarantee
if this statistical analysis was trending towards the Bears being super awesome most of the comments would be praising how spot on great the Billick/Mora system was.
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 1:33 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
I'd be interested to see the toxic differential on the 2006 Bears.
Jake is right, we did have a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
by Chauncey Baker on Dec 9, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
At least that is a full season, and a complete data set.
Jake is right, we did have a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
by Chauncey Baker on Dec 9, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
The 2006 Bears were a +8
But that’s a great example of needing to somehow factor in Professor Doshis special teams big play differential
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks!
And by the way, I’d still be Meh even if the Bears were at the top of the list. I’m really not surprised that any of these teams lead the league, with perhaps the exception of the Chargers.
I think what turns me off the most is the name…Toxic Differential?…Gross!
Jake is right, we did have a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
by Chauncey Baker on Dec 9, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
It reminds me of this guy

If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Troma films masterwork!.....
I'd prefer not to have Lovie return...Unless we win the SB baby!!!!
"There's a fine line between stupid, and clever!"
"I am serious... and don't call me Shirley." Leslie Nielson 1926-2010
No way it could be worse than
I Scream for Ice Cream….Wal-Mart cheap bin+Halloween night+Drunken Shenanigans=Terrible Horror Movie in your collection for 5 bucks
"Word of advice, don’t join, Bears fans are crazy."--- D-Jackfan10
Whaaaat?
A dwarf dies in a trouser press! How many films does that happen in???
(In a perfect world, LOTR director Peter Jackson’s thinking to himself: “Must find a way to shoehorn that into The Hobbit…”)
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - Tom Coughlin, Giants '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
Come to think of it, has anyone seen Garrett Wolfe lately?
A dwarf dies in a trouser press! How many films does that happen in???
Now that you mention it, not since they announced that filming of The Hobbit would be going ahead…
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - Tom Coughlin, Giants '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~
at +8 the 2006 Bears would look to be out of the hunt for the playoffs this year.
It certainly a great Stat and tells a lot about a team but no single stat can tell you everything. Pro Football Outsiders still rank the Bears at #18 with the #30 Offense.
We have seen considerable improvement in the O, a new found ability to sustain drives by converting 3rd downs and a much improved Red Zone efficiency. Special Teams also routinely give us a shorter field to work with on O and more space to defend on D big factors.
. "Most football teams are temperamental. That's 90% temper and 10% mental."
--Doug Plank
i could just as easily see the opposite
lots of nervous bears fans afraid the popular praise creates a jinx
Interesting and unconventional way to measure how good a team is.
Though its flawed, with some tweaking, like considering special teams play & number of offensive plays ran. I think this stat could more accurate.
I was just informed
that WSCR in Chicago was talking about this very subject right now
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 3:31 PM CST reply actions
Not only a pot stirrer, but a trendsetter too.
We are so proud.
If you don't ask, you don't get. So get on with it already.
by Suffering from Chicago Sports on Dec 9, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
They had Billick on the radio... I think he's been on the air every Thurs.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
I can't take any props for that one
Billick was on
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 9, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
He said bears have to limit Cutler's throws and not turn the ball over.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
He also wasn't trying to take credit for building a new way of thinking or anything
He was basically saying that these things are just better indicators than say 3rd down conversions% or red zone%, etc. But, it’s pretty much common sense… to have the best chance of winning, you want to win the turnover battle, and create more explosive plays than your opponent.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
Correlation does not imply causation!
Hey, I love statistics as much as anyone, and likely more than most – but this looks suspiciously like a case of someone looking at the results, and then creating a statistic to fit those results.
The theory here is that the “Toxic Differential” will result in a particular won-loss record. It’s a nice simple idea, but a bit too simple in my opinion.
First, I don’t like the ‘mix’ of numbers. There are only two plus/minus numbers, added together, and the variation of the two columns is quite intriguing. Just looking at the numbers, it would seem that the Steelers, Eagles, Chargers, Giants and Bucs (38-22, .633) should have BETTER records than the Packers, Patriots, Falcons, Chiefs and Jets (45-15, .750). That’s a difference in final record between 10-6 and 12-4 between the top 5 and next 5, when projected out.
Whereas, it looks like turnover differential is still a more powerful predictor of, or has greater effect on, the result (W-L). The teams with the top two records (Pats and Falcons) are #2 and #4 in turnover differential (+24), but only breaking even in big plays (+2), while numbers 1 and 3 (Eagles and Steelers) also are in a favorable position. Meanwhile, the Chargers and Giants have negative turnover differentials, and very well could wind up on the outside looking in.
The second issue with these simple numbers are that not all big plays are created equal. There are the factors of the position on the field and the score at the time. A 20-yard run from your own 8 yard line is not of the same quality as a 20-yard run from the opponent’s 28. Furthermore, a 30-yard pass completion by a team that is losing by 17 points isn’t as meaningful as a 30-yard pass by a team in a 3-point game (either winning or losing).
Turnovers in a game with a large current point spread may not be as meaningful as in a tight game, but they are equally as meaningful on all parts of the field. If your defense gets a takeaway on your own 10-yard line, that saves 3 or 7 points; if it gets a takeaway on the opponent’s 10-yard line, then it generates 3 or 7 points (usually, of course).
The third issue has been touched on repeatedly – the lack of big plays by special teams being taken into account. Certainly field position will have a huge influence over scoring, and the quality of any resulting big plays on offense (or given up on defense), and this could easily be calculated by the proponents of this statistic (why they didn’t include this in the first place is beyond me.)
And those are only my cursory issues with the numbers, as stated. The linked article has more holes than a prevent defense. Some quick examples:
The Colts lost Sunday in large part because they couldn’t stop the Cowboys’ ground game and couldn’t run the football themselves. But, the biggest reason they’re 6-6 is their toxic differential.
Once again, everyone repeat: “Correlation does not imply causation.” The biggest reason is NOT their toxic differential, but the fact that Peyton Manning has been doing his best impression of Rex Grossman over the past few weeks. A statistic is not the reason the Colts have been sucking of late. That’s a very poorly-written hyphothesis.
“In my experience in coaching, there’s not a better indicator or playoff predictor than the toxic differential,” Billick said. “You can say, ‘You gotta run the football, you gotta stop the run.’ But at the end of the day, maybe five out of the top 10 rushing teams will make the playoffs.”
Did everyone catch that? Billick himself mentions the perception of run offense AND run defense generating wins, and then mentions only the top rushing offenses in their relationship to the playoffs!! Talk about moving the goalposts, and he didn’t even wait two sentences to do it. Brian, what happened to the teams stopping the run, and whether or not they make the playoffs?
Billick is spot on. What’s more interesting is where the top rushing teams that didn’t make the playoffs in 2009 finished in toxic differential. The Titans ended up 27th at minus-17, with the Dolphins right behind them at 29th (minus-33). How about poor Cleveland? The Browns were dead last with an awful minus-52.
Or, we can look at the part of the equation that Brian conveniently forgot in the next friggin’ sentence, rush defense. The Titans were tied at #10 (respectable), the Dolphins were #18, and the Browns were #28. The other top rushing teams on the list that didn’t make the playoffs were the Panthers and Jaguars, #22 and #19 in rush defense, respectively. The only team that doesn’t really make sense is the Titans, who were #2 in rush offense and #10 in rush defense. However, they played two different QBs, their top receiver was also their top rusher (CJ2K), and they finished 8-8, well behind the 14-2 Colts.
But we don’t really have any evidence that the teams with the best balance of both rushing offense AND rushing defense fared any worse than those with the best toxic differentials.
Here, they aggregate Toxic Differential for the past ten years, and make some conclusions:
The top 12 teams are a veritable who’s who of the NFL over the past decade. Eight of the 10 Super Bowl winners in the 2000s are represented, as well as both teams that won multiple Lombardi Trophies (Patriots and Steelers). The regular-season team of the decade is listed (Colts), as well as the NFC’s best club over the same span (Eagles).
Misleading, at best, once again. Of those 12 teams they mention, only five have won the Super Bowl (Steelers, Colts, Patriots, Bucs, and Ravens), and only one more has participated (Eagles), while the other six (Chargers, Packers, Broncos, Jets, Cowboys, and Jaguars) haven’t even been in a Super Bowl during this period.
My hypothesis is that turnover differential is more important than toxic differential or big-play differential. Let’s look at the six teams on the list that participated in the Super Bowl versus the six that didn’t.
Super Bowl 6: Toxic differential +806
Non-Super 6: Toxic differential +405
Wow! There you have it, right? Not so fast….let’s break out these numbers further.
Super Bowl 6: Big-play differential +483
Non-Super 6: Big-play differential +354
Hmmm….what’s going on here?
Super Bowl 6: Turnover differential +323
Non-Super 6: Turnover differential +51
There you have it. Game, set, match. If you were only analyzing turnover differential, those non-Super 6 might not even be ON the list (certainly the Cowboys would be far down).
And my personal favorite:
“Teams that win the explosive-gains differential win 65 percent of their games,” he said. “That’s just a plus-1. Teams that have accomplished both a positive turnover and explosive gains differential win over 92 percent of their games.”
Really, the team that has more takeaways than turnovers and more big plays than the other team will win? Geez, I had no idea.
I haven’t been able to find any stats for the ten-year period between 2000-2009 (regular seasons), and I don’t want to compile it myself, but I did find this:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-02-04-turnovers_x.htm
In the 201 games during the 2005 regular season where there was a difference in turnover margin, the team that won the turnover battle was 140-61.
In the 57 playoff games since the 2000 season where Team A has an edge in turnover margin over Team B, Team A is 46-11, including 7-2 in this postseason.
In the 31 Super Bowls where one team wins the turnover battle, that team is – get ready for this – 29-2.
Again, I realize it’s not the same time period and is a smaller sample, but by the numbers listed, in 2005 teams that won the turnover battle won 70% of their games (better than the 65% for big plays). This increased to 81% in the playoffs over a 5-year period, and 94% in the 31 Super Bowls where a team won the turnover battle.
After further analysis, I think this is much ado about nothing. Turnovers are a fine metric of winning and losing in the short (game), medium (season) and long (decade) runs. Adding big plays to turnovers is like adding bad weather to drinking alcohol while driving – of course it’s going to seal the deal.
But I propose that turnover differential is a much better indicator than big-play differential, and equally as good as,if not better than, toxic differential when it’s all said and done.
by Sweetness Lives On on Dec 9, 2010 4:27 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Oh, and I completely forgot about the Red Zone!
By definition, no team can achieve a ‘Big Play’ (20 or more yards) in the Red Zone. If you’re on the opponent’s 18 yard line, it’s obviously impossible to run or pass for 20 yards or more. Conversely, it’s impossible to give up a big play on defense inside your own 20.
However, turning the ball over or taking the ball away in the Red Zone is one of the biggest plays in the game.
Why mix in a statistic that only takes into account 80% of the field, and leaves out the most important 20%?
by Sweetness Lives On on Dec 9, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
this deserves a rec
dude that is one long post! but i agree with about all of it, especially where they think the colts’ lack of success on the ground lost them the game against the cowboys. i thought i saw bad rex out there too with the way peyton was floating passes for anyone to come up and run back to the house.
lovie might want to be your new bff
by reefermadness3 on Dec 10, 2010 12:32 AM CST up reply actions
I think peyton's problem is that for the first time in his career, he doesn't want to be a Colt.
He was a Colt thru and thru, and it’s awfully hard to think anything otherwise, but Man, is he pissed about the “near perfect” season and other dumbass moves this year. And he’s really pissed about having to carry things himself with no oline and an injury prone defense. And a coach who looks 1000 times as baffled as Lovie out there.
IMHO, there’s a darn good reason he hasn’t extended his contract yet.
Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Probably the best long post...ever!
Seriously though, I can rarely sit through a post like that without the writer grabbing the audiences’ attention. Job well done; it sure seems like the toxic avenger stat is just an add-on or supplement for turnover ratio. Big plays can win games, but turnovers are usually the at the heart of the issue. Sack and fumble inside your own 20 yard line, late in a close game, wouldn’t reflect in this analysis.
"He's a great candidate," Ryan said. "If I hadn't made him drop in coverage so often on running backs, he might be the all-time sack leader. They call it zone blitzing nowadays. We called it, 'Richard, pick him up.'" - Buddy Ryan on Richard Dent's HOF chances.
Longest comment ever
Well done!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 10, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
Ok...
so basically what they’re saying is that if you have more big plays then you allow and have more takeaways then turnovers in a game you will more than likely win the game and have a successful season. Wow! Thanks Captain obvious!
guess what eles...?
If you score more than your opponent you’ll also win!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 10, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
Holy crap Lester!!!!
You just blew my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The turnover aspect is misleading as well, since, at least in the case of the Bears, Cutler isn’t throwing x picks per y throws consistently during the season, as their turnover differential sort of suggests. It was much larger in the first half of the season, and since has seemingly been corrected.
It would be like saying, my old way to work took me 30 minutes. After six months, I found a faster way to work that only takes me 20 minutes. In a years time, my average might be 25 minutes… but that doesn’t mean it actually takes me 25 minutes to get to work.
Toxic Differential can kiss my @$$
Someone forgot to tell the Toxic Differential that we’re 9-3 and 1st place in the NFC North with only 4 games to go.
The Bears are a +54 in point differential
Which ranks them 11th
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 10, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
11th overall and 6th in the NFC.
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Dec 10, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
9-3
That is what’s important, although this is interesting, stat teams aren’t always the best and DA BEARS have shown that insane stats aren’t needed, Ws are needed.
No mention of big plays on STS
There’s a huge hole in this study/analysis.
"He's a great candidate," Ryan said. "If I hadn't made him drop in coverage so often on running backs, he might be the all-time sack leader. They call it zone blitzing nowadays. We called it, 'Richard, pick him up.'" - Buddy Ryan on Richard Dent's HOF chances.
that's been mentioned a few times above
I wonder if anyone can get in Billicks ear about it
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 10, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
3rd phase...
who needs it? Every team needs it!
"He's a great candidate," Ryan said. "If I hadn't made him drop in coverage so often on running backs, he might be the all-time sack leader. They call it zone blitzing nowadays. We called it, 'Richard, pick him up.'" - Buddy Ryan on Richard Dent's HOF chances.
How is this a new idea?
Sorry, but this comes off to me as the idea that if you have more big plays and you force more turnovers, you will win more often is some sort of revolutionary new idea. Come on. Who didn’t know this in 1920 when the league was founded? I’m all for stats, but repackaging something so universally known this simply and then acting as if this is some sort of breakthrough in statistical analysis is almost insulting.
Here, let me try…….
We all know that scoring points increases the probability of a team winning a given game. We also know that allowing fewer points also increases the probability for a team to win a given game. Now, here’s the interesting part. We’ve found a direct correlation between these stats and the chances of a team making the playoffs.
We know that the team that scores more points in a game wins 100% of the games since 1920 and that’s just with a plus-1. We also know that the team that allows fewer points wins 100% of the games in the same time-frame. So we’ve taken these two statistics and we’ve combined them to create….wait for it…..the Points Differential! Take a look at the leaders in Points Differential over the past decade from the 2000 season to the 2009 season.
NE Patriots 1106
IND Colts 983
PHI Eagles 873
PIT Steelers 806
GB Packers 639
BAL Ravens 607
SD Chargers 460
DEN Broncos 308
TB Buccaneers 177
NY Giants 139
NO Saints 132
JAX Jaguars 128
Now, if you look closely, you’ll note that all 7 Super Bowl winners from the last decade is represented here: Baltimore, New England, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, New York Giants and New Orleans, with New England winning three and Pittsburgh winning two.
But let’s look at it from another vantage point. Of these teams, 10 are among the top 12 in winning percentage for the aughts, with Only Tampa Bay and Jacksonville falling behind at 18 and 20. Moreover, these teams are among the most consistent playoff competitors, with the Colts and Eagles leading the league with 9 appearances each, followed by the Patriots with 8 trips, the Packers and Ravens with 7 apiece and Steelers, Giants and Chargers with 6 appearances each.
and so on, blah, blah, blah…….
See my point?
BTW, all statistics calculated using information provided by pro-football-reference.com
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Dec 10, 2010 11:26 AM CST reply actions
Pure Genius!
We all know that scoring points increases the probability of a team winning a given game. We also know that allowing fewer points also increases the probability for a team to win a given game.
You should get an nfl.com gig!
If you go in the bathroom, turn off the lights, and say "Da Coach" 5 times while facing the mirror... Ditka will appear and slap the wussy right out of you.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Dec 10, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
Thank, you...thank you very much....
I did that just for you. I knew it would tickle your funny bone! Be sure and try the veal! I’ll be here all week!
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Dec 10, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
In all seriousness....
That’s the point. I was stunned at how this was delivered on NFL.com. As if this isn’t how games have been won for 90.75 seasons. Surprise, surprise, surprise! How well teams execute the two biggest things that little league coaches all over the country have been teaching for scores of years as the keys to winning games is an indicator of the success of NFL teams. Imagine that!
in•san•i•ty \in-ˈsa-nə-tē\ noun
1 : The practice of repeating the same action while expecting different results.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Dec 10, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
toxic-differential for 2010 regular season
toxic-differential for 2010 regular season:
http://sites.google.com/site/nflcoolstatscenter/toxic-differential

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