Forte for Cromartie?
by BearNecessities on Feb 17, 2010 7:30 AM CST
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As much as I highly doubt the Bears will entertain this option, I wonder what the Bears faithful would think about this move, ESPN has a short article HERE about the San Diego Chargers shopping Corner Back Antonio Cromartie for a Running Back.
Forte is a steady back, but is he our future at running back?
We need depth and solidity in the secondary, and maybe the possibility of Chester Taylor winning the #1 role in Chicago could lure him down from Minnesota. anyone wanna bite, and discuss?
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I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.....
I like Matt, don’t get me wrong. But Cromartie is special. I’d take that trade any day. Besides, there are a lot more good running backs in the league than there are great corners. We gave Benson and Jones away for nothing. At least we would get a great young player in return for Forte. I say make the trade, resign AP so we know we have a reliable and durable backup plan, and give Kahlil Bell a shot at starting. I mean, lets be honest here. If Matt Forte got injured last season, how many of us would have been as concerned as we would have been had Peanut got hurt?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 8:21 AM CST reply actions
Ditto
Go out and sign Chester Taylor in his stead, then the team fills two needs for the price of one.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Agreed. We just have to match his salary needs, right ? No picks ?
Taking somebody away from a rival is always sweet.
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 17, 2010 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
Like you said below
His value is damaged a bit, and may come at less than his full value. In addition, I think you over pay a little for Taylor if you have to. The Bears have some leverage cause he hasn’t been a starter in 3 years and is 31 (32 in the third week of the season).
Then add a big, bruising RB through the draft. Preferably, Gerhart or Blount. Cue No It All! Or is it Sack that loves him?
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Blount!!!! we need him...
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
I would rather have Blount.
I would also rather have CT than Forte if I had to choose.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 21, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
perfect answer
this is what I was thinking while reading the lead
I would much rather get...
Toby Gerhart in the draft.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 21, 2010 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
We don't need another Brad Muster
we need speed..
" We get off the bus running! What do you mean we are a passing team? you don't agree with how I do things? You're fired!"
- Lovie Smith-
Brad Muster was the stuff?
I liked the way he played the game. Wolfe is a speed back and has done nothing.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 22, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
Because he is 5-6 and 170 lbs
" We get off the bus running! What do you mean we are a passing team? you don't agree with how I do things? You're fired!"
- Lovie Smith-
Matt Forte *was* injured last year ...
Sprained MCL. So this trade would give us a guy the Chargers have been trying to shop for a year, has had 5 interceptions in two years and his team-mates don’t like his attitude. Only saw him in two games this year but he was beaten up and down the field both times and actually jumped out as a guy I wouldn’t want as my corner – he bites on the first move every time.
So we’d have a suspect cancer at corner and what’s in our backfield ? Kahlil Bell, Mini-me & Kevin Jones ? Two thirds of our backfield are coming back form injury, and then we re-sign a guy who’s past it ?
Has Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith all over it ……
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 17, 2010 7:58 PM CST up reply actions
I disagree....
Forte is over-rated, and while I’d like a better corner than Crom, he is better ranked than either Peanut or Bowman.
And I’ll see your INTs and raise you some TDs…….5 to 11. 5 TDs than Crom gave up over the last 2 years vs the 11 TDS that Peanut did.
Or how bout 70.9 to 97.3. 70.9 would be the QB rating for passes thrown in Crom’s coverage this year. 97.3 would be the QBR for the passes thrown in Peanuts direction.
I know you like this number from our Greg Olsen chats…..catch %…..57.0 to 65.3……57.0 would be the catch percentage for passes thrown into Crom’s coverage……65.3 would be the percentage caught in Peanut’s coverage.
See, I have stats, too :)
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
then im sure whoever would start at RB would have great stats...
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
Doesn't change the fact he's had 5 INTs in two years ...
… or that he’s got serious off the field issues which have basically paralysed his career .. the Bears don’t play with those fools ….
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:40 AM CST up reply actions
And Forte's injury doesn't explain .....
his 30th ranked running skills in ’08, nor do they explain his 21st ranked YPC or his 30th ranked Yards After Contact/Carry. in ’08.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
That was my argument down below. Does that mean he was injured as a rookie too? If so, his career isn’t going to last 5 years.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
get real
yes let trade him for an average CB. Bell would really step in and light it up im sure. Forte will do well in Martz offense. Before you call for trades why dont you wait and see how the team plays with a new system in place. Suuuure Forte is trash. He may not be AP on the ground but who is. Its his quality run game and his exceptional receiving out of the backfield that make him a great threat in this system. Just wait and see. Ive been so dissapointed with these posts lately.
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
He may not be AP on the ground but who is.
Chris Johnson…to name one. Thomas Jones had another great season and so did the other Jets back. so did the Miami running backs. Frank Gore had a better than “good” season also… see a trend here? a lot of teams had RBs have better than good season,
yet we rely our hopes on an average RUNNING back, who catches passes well… unfortunately we need him to run better than average. catching passes will usually be good for WR.
come up with a good post yourself before you start being “dissapointed” with valid and important posts… Having Bell show he could run anyways, did nothing but show how either injured, or weak the run game was.
getting a CB who’s stats show he was better than our CB’s would be an improvement, to say the least
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 18, 2010 8:10 AM CST up reply actions
He isn't even close to an average runner
Anyone that disagrees with cold, hard facts need to put down the blinders. 30th in the league….enough said! Good CBs are difficult to come by, RBs are fairly easy to find an average one. Taylor is a perfect example; he’s available, and wouldn’t come with a big price tag.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
I was trying to be PC
about it. I think Forte is a great option to have out of the backfield, but as a number 1, thinking he’s "elite’’ or near it, is just silly.
I think Cromartie is easily worth the value of Forte because like you said, RBs are a dime a dozen especially when you aren’t a team with CJ2K or AP
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 18, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Check yourself for blinders first
You conveniently ignore the reality that Forte has played behind a poor OL and in a poor offensive scheme that did not use his abilities.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 18, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well
that’s just your opinion, while what I stated is fact. He was the 63rd best runner in the league last season. I find it hard to believe it had to do with just his offensive line and injury, cause his numbers from his rookie year are very similar.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Running behind ......
……. the same crap o-line . Did you really think his numbers would improve behind our bad o-line ? Did you really think he could improve even with some very limiting injuries ? He’ll get back on track this season and be a upper tier back .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 18, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm,
While the stats are facts, your interpretation of the facts is opinion not fact.
When you say: “I find it hard to believe it had to do with just his offensive line and injury, cause his numbers from his rookie year are very similar” you are expressing an opinion not a fact.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 18, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Here are some more .....
……….. facts for you …… : FACT : Forte was injured in training camp ( hamstring ) and then was injured further during the season ( ACL in his right knee ) . FACT : our o-line sucked last year . So the fact is that there were some things going aginest Matt and he still put his uni on and played .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 18, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
Again
What about his rookie year? Neither injured, nor was the offensive line bad.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
And his stats were again
just mediocre… he can catch out of the back field, but he doesn’t run over everything like an upper tier RB should.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 19, 2010 3:58 AM CST up reply actions
since when is 1200 yds bad?
so smart. Oh look guys Bell busted off a long run. I guess that means he can do that every 3 hand offs right? Get real man. Forte is a perfect fit for this system. All people do on here is complain about our players who are actually pretty good and wish to trade them. This is getting to be as sad as the Eagles page…
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
Since when is.......
3.9 yards per carry good? Since when is being in the bottom half of every per carry stat in the running category good?
Forte is good at a lot of things, but running isn’t one of them. Ranked last in the league amongst runners both of his two seasons is good enough? Quantity does not equal quality, bro. Forte had 1238 yards in ‘08 on 316 carries. Jamaal Charles had 1120 yards this year on only 190 carries. Forte’s YPC was 3.9 in ‘08. Charles’ was 5.9. And KC’s run-blocking unit was ranked 9 places behind ours.
I don’t get it. Personally, I’d like to see Forte put on 20lbs of muscle and take the FB job away from McKie. He’s perfect for what the Bears want out of a fullback.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Stats vehemently disagree
with you assessment. Facts, cold-hard stats/numbers is how we as fans evaluate players. Don’t get me wrong, I like Forte and believe he’ll be better in Martz’s system, but as of right now he’s not close to being a “special” running-back that fans on here claim him to be.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
there arent many "special" backs to begin with
ive never said he was special. But he is a good back. Your right that fans base everything off of stats. This is why they are fans and not in any postion of importance. hell our team would suck the big one then. You cant go strictly off of stats. You have to go by surrounding talent. Health. System. Just like any other team based sport (other than baseball) you cant rely on yourself. He should do just fine in this new system and will really help drive the ball downfield. But i guess we should trade him before we find out right? Yeah start Bell. I’m also still in awe of the fool that said put him at FB…for real?…lets hope not
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
Correction
your interpretation of the stats disagree. You look at the stats and see Forte’s lack of ability as the only plausible explanation, yet I and others have offered other equally plausible explanations.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 19, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
This got out of control.
Just because he is not an “elite” back, which he is not. Does not mean he isnt a solid back and yes as much as you want to say he only had 1200 yards his rookie year, he also led the league in receptions among RBs with 63 and I dont have it right in front of me but he was right up there in Total yards from scrimmage.
I agree, we totally need another RB to ADD to Forte and Bell, but dont act like he isnt good enough to suit up for us. Go look at Faulks numbers as a WR with Martz and then just hold off judgment until Fote gets his chance with a coordinator with half a brain.
Is Westbrook going to bruise you? No, but he is considered one of the best because of the system he plays in and he makes the most of ALL of his assets.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
finally...
thank you sir
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
I cant believe what people think of this squad.
Sometimes I wonder if its those pesky Broncos fans pretending to be Bears just to mess with us once again.
God I really hated those guys, drove me insane. I havent heard too much from them since the missed out on the playoffs though, hahaha.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
people here think this team is a mess
i think we have a lot of the pieces…we just neet to fit them together. When used properly this offense can do some real damage. Our D really needs to step up. I like our the direction the offense is headed tho…especially with Martz in there now
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
agreed....
The players aren’t the mess (though some pieces could use an upgrade, no doubt). The administration is.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone has agreed
about his prowess as a receiver out of the backfield. The dispute was about his running ability, and he’s shown to be very subpar. Actually bottom 3-4 in the league both years he’s been a RB. Go ahead and continue to bash us for discussing how to make this team better. Doesn’t make us lesser fans to point out obvious weaknesses with this team. Furthermore, TT pointed out that other backs had far worse offensive lines, but happened to put up top-10 numbers…ie production. You can talk about grit, determination, and will until you’re blue in the face, but if production isn’t there then all that ancillary stuff doesn’t mean anything.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Read my post again and describe to me how
1200 and a league leading 63 receptions and being one of the best in the league with total yards from scrimmage isnt production????
I love how Westbrook gets credit for being a multi dimensional back but Forte gets thrown to the waste side when he catches a ton of balls out of the backfield.
Go ahead and try to find someone with more receptions than Forte, and while you say its called RB, that doesnt necessarily mean that he has to get the yards RUNNING the football, he could also receive the football as well.
And if you actually read my post, youd see that I am in huge favor of bringing in another back to help Forte. But this is a post about trading him and I do not condone trading a solid back thats all.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Except that
Westbrook has NEVER had an average yards per carry under 4 in his entire career, and has been over 5 twice! That’s a horrible comparison to make and has no bearing here. Again, we’ve never said anything about his ability in the passing game. Make sense? I’m done with this nonsense.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Well understand that Brian Westbrook has an offensive coordinator with half a brain, like I said before.
Do you not think that Forte could put up similar numbers in that system. I think its a damn good comparison.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
No, I don't think he would put up similar numbers....
I think he would drop about a yard per carry, but that he would do even better than Westbrook did in the receiving game.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 20, 2010 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
Well said.
…and he did it as a rookie …
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:41 AM CST up reply actions
Becuase our QB was Kyle orton
He faced constant 8 man fronts and run blitzes. He was fortunate to get the YPC that he had..
" We get off the bus running! What do you mean we are a passing team? you don't agree with how I do things? You're fired!"
- Lovie Smith-
no doubt
this new system will keep defenses balance. Our offense should play very well this coming season. Dont sleep on Forte yet people.
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
I like Forte..
but the jury is still out on how good he really is. I do love his humbleness and attitude, really can’t get any better when it comes to those two things. I love that he has great hands and runs well after the catch. What I have been waiting for is a RB that exceeds mediocrity. His 1200+yd rookie season was really good but not great. It would be nice to have a RB exceed 1400yd’s in a season, to me, that would truly be a success. I don’t know if that could ever happen with Martz as our OC, but you never know, crazier things have happened.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 21, 2010 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
i agree that for the most part the jury is still out on Forte
yes..and since its only going to be yr 3 for him, also in a new system taylor made for a back with his skill set, why should we trade him. I think all the “Trade Forte” chants should stop until we see how he does in yr 3. Thats all. Sure he could bust. Wont be the first, wont be the last. But he could also be something special and i dont think thats worth trading away..
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
I agree......
I have no problem with trading Forte if it improves the team noticeably, but trading him just to trade him would be stupid. His abilities in the passing game and as a pass blocker will make him more than useful in the new offense, and the spread offense should help him on running downs. Bring in another legitimate back, and let them share time.
Or convert Matt to a FB. All-Pro. I’m telling ya.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Precisely.
Martz backs get about 80 receptions a year.
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:45 AM CST up reply actions
Do you read what you write ?
" His 1200+yd rookie season was really good but not great."
What ? It pus him on the top ten rookie seasons of all time – that’s what I’d call ‘great’ ….
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:45 AM CST up reply actions
Fact
According to PFF, Forte was the 63rd best RB in the NFL. Injury, bad offensive line or not, he should be able to perform better than that.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
I'll tell.....
……….. you what , you go out and try to walk on one leg and lets see how successful you are . This kid gutted it out and played despite being injured and all you can say is ….
he should be able to perform better than that.And his rookie year …….. HE WAS A ROOKIE !!!!!!!! So lets see you think he should play better despite being injured , despite playing behind a horrid O-line and despite facing 8 man fronts for almost 2 entire seasons ? Come on man , really ?
This kid is rock solid and will return to form this season . He will prove to be an upper tier back and he’ll prove how tough he really is ….. oh wait he’s already done that one this whole past season !
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 18, 2010 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
FACT.......
………….. in high school I averaged 6.4 years per carry so maybe I should be playin pro ball ?!!! Stats are numbers period . Do they measure heart , toughness or will to win ….. NO . This kid is one of the most complete backs in the NFL right now . Heres one for ya …. Name me 5 backs that can block , catch passes out of the backfield , catch passes from an outside position , is smart enough to see where the blitz is coming from and is a very good runner ? Ohh and one that in his rookie year juked Bob Sanders out of his jock strap !
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 18, 2010 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
I know Forte doesn't make that list.....
He is NOT a very good runner, so he’s out.
Look, I have a lot of respect for the kid. I think he’s a class act who’s attitude alone will make him an endearing fan favorite for years to come. But he is not a good runner.
And you right. Forte ran behind the 20th ranked run-blocking unit in the NFL. He ended up ranking 29th out of 29 RBs who took more than 50% of his teams offensive snaps. But AP played behind the worst ranked run-blocking unit in the league. And he was 6th in the league running. In fact, here’s a nice comparison of teams ranked lower than Chicago in run-blocking and how their primary RBs ranked running.
Chicago 20 of 32 – Matt Forte 29th of 29 RBs who took more than 50% of teams offensive snaps.
21st SD – LaDainian Tomlinson 25th
22nd DEN – Knowshon Moreno (rookie) 12th
23rd BUF – Fred Jackson 3rd
24th IND – Joseph Addai 18th
25th SF – Frank Gore 21st
26th PIT – Rashard Mendenhall 15th
27th SEA – Justin Forsett 9th
28th OAK – No RB took more than 50% of offensive snaps
29th KC – Jamaal Charles 1st
30th WAS – No RB took more than 50% of offensive snaps
31st TB – Cadillac Williams 16th
32nd MIN – Adrian Peterson 6th
Every RB with a worse line (and every RB in the league) ranked higher than Forte. Jamaal Charles was only in his second year. He rushed behind the 29th ranked run-blocking unit and was the only good thing happening in KC. He faced 8 man fronts all season, and still rushed for 198 more yards than Forte on 68 less carries. He also averaged 1.5 yards after contact per carry more than Forte, and 2.3 yards per carry more than Forte.
I know, I know. “He was injured. But he was great his rookie year”…….
26th CHI – Matt Forte 30th of 31 (Rookie)
27th CIN – Cedric Benson 29th
28th PHI – Brian Westbrook 19th
29th DET – Kevin Smith 10th (Rookie)
30th WAS – Clinton Portis 4th
31st StL – Steven Jackson 20th
32nd BUF – Marshawn Lynch 6th
And once again, every RB on a team with a worse run-blocking line is ranked higher than Forte.
“But, but, but he was only a rookie!”
Well, so was Kevin Smith, who was running for a 0-16 lions team that had the 29th ranked run-blocking line. He was the 10th ranked RB in the league running. Marshawn Lynch was in just his 2nd year. He ran behind the worst run-blocking line in the league, and he was the 6th ranked runner.
There is absolutely no opinion in those numbers. He was ranked worse than every back with line worse than his……..
And to answer your question about naming 5…….
I’ll name 10….
Ray Rice
Jamaal Charles
Maurice Jones-Drew
Justin Forsett
Joseph Addai
Kevin Smith
Thomas Jones
Brian Westbrook
Steve Slaton
Larry Johnson
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 18, 2010 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Outstanding.
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Feb 18, 2010 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
WOW!
All of that says that Forte isn’t what we thought he was. If you want to crown ‘im, then crown ’im. But he isn’t what we thought he was!
I noticed that he isn’t in that list of 10, either.
I’m sick of settling for less. Let’s get an actual running back in here.
by GentleGoodnight on Feb 18, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
Not so fast.....
I’m not trying to say Forte is garbage. He just isn’t a very good runner. He might turn out to be great in Martz’s system, but he isn’t a great runner. All the excuses in the world don’t change the fact that all of those backs who’s line’s were worse did better both seasons.
But, Forte is an excellent receiver out of the back-field, and an exceptional blocker, as well. And add to that the fact that he genuinely seems to be a terrific kid with a lot of heart, and he’s very hard not to be a fan of. Unfortunately, his position is called running back, not receiving back. He’d make a great complimentary back, but I want excellence out of the position. I want a back who is befitting of following in Walter Payton’s and Gayle Sayers’ footsteps. Matt Forte ain’t that guy.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 18, 2010 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry to say ....
…… but I disagree with you again . Forte has everything necessary to be a great back . Payton or Sayers their once in a lifetime players and we’ll never see anything like them again . Forte can be a lead back period , but he needs a bit of help from his o-line . You can keep your stats because all they are is numbers . Like I said ealier there are no numbers that measure heart , grit and determination . This kid plays hurt and you guys say how much he sucks . This kid does everything asked of him and still you don’t think hes any good . I’ll take a whole team of Matt Forte types anyday . So does anyone on our team not suck in your eyes ? You seem to think we just suck all the way around . Forte is a good runner . Yea , yea you go with numbers and stats I’ll take heart and grit anyday .
As for AP in Minny hate to break it to you buts hes a fumble machine . And your list of backs is a little weak . Larry Johnson is past his prime , Jamaal Charles can’t block my grand ma , Brian Westbrook is still concust , Steve Slaton is not even good enough to hold his starting role and Justin Forsett was a reach . But like I said you keep your numbers if thats what makes you happy , but in the long run heart is what makes winners and Forte has that .
Forte , when healthy , will produce your numbers . If the o-line improves a little his numbers will go up . So this year your stat line will improve .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 18, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.....
There are no numbers that measure heart , grit or determination. But then, there are numbers that measure performance. Those numbers don’t look so good for Matt.
BTW, Forte fumbled 5 times in the regular season. Peterson fumbled 4.
As for the list, those players are all players who, in the last two years, were above average in the catagories you asked for. Forte was not one of them. Your feelings do not trump the numbers, my friend.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 18, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
Correction.....
Peterson fumbled 6 times. Forte 5.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 18, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
Don't forget
A lot of them are because of Hunter Hillenmeyer.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
All those guys mentioned
have something Forte doesn’t have- elusiveness in the running game. Not only that, but our emblazoned “tough” RB isn’t effective in short-yardage situations. Speed kills, and Matt doesn’t have enough of it to cover up his very mediocre running skills (stats say worse).
Like I said ealier there are no numbers that measure heart , grit and determination
I’ll take production over “grit” any day of the week.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Another thing....
When did I say Forte sucked? Stop attaching your emotions to my statements. I said he was a below average runner, but a excellent receiver out of the backfield and he was an exceptional blocker. I also said that he might be great in the new system. I pretty much said everything I could nice about him, except that he isn’t a great runner, which is true. That doesn’t mean Forte can’t succeed. I just see him as more Roger Craig and less Walter Payton.
As far as Jamaal Charles not blocking your grandma, he rates higher in blocking than Forte. Justin Forsett was a top 10 RB. Forte was not. Who’s reaching again? Brian Piccolo had more heart than any RB since. Was he a great back? Would you have started him over Sayers? If not, then your argument doesn’t hold water.
And as for the whole “So does anyone on our team not suck in your eyes ?” crap? If you bothered paying attention, I wrote a whole post about the talent level on this team being better than what people give credit for called “Talent and Da Bears”. I followed that with another post that is still rec’ed defensing Devin Hester. I have tormented IrishBearsFan over Greg Olsen, and have stoutly defended the talent level of this undercoached team since arriving, and for years before as one of the head writers for firejerryangelo.com. But because I don’t believe that a RB who has ranked last among starter his first two year in the league is a great runner, even though I defend his other talents, I suddenly have become one of those guys who hate all of our talent?
I actually like pretty much everyone on the roster, and have made the argument that the talent exists with the players to compete for a Super Bowl and has the last three years. Coaching and development are the problem. Playing musical positions with Cbs, safeties and linemen don’t help.
For example, had Danieal Manning been developed, we wouldn’t be stuck looking for a FS, as he could have been a beast, but instead the idiots in charge think trying to teach a guy three positions at the NFL level is smart. Now we’re still looking for an FS, and they have ruined Manning and Graham in the process. Rashied Davis was a decent to good CB, who they turned into a below average WR. Hester will be utilized differently for the third time in his career. Omiyale should have been the RT all season, and Chris Williams should have been given the opportunity to start at LT from game 1 on. I don’t blame these players for stupid coaching, and I happen to believe that were they not jacked around they would have performed much better. I believe Manning could have been a Pro-Bowl FS. I know, it’s just my opinion, but the guy had insane raw skill and the perfect set.
The only player that I have had any issue with so far has been Forte, and I don’t think he sucks. I just haven’t seen him show, in two years, that he can be a good runner in this league. A great receiver and blocker, and a future leader. But your emotions vs the reality of what he has done? I’ll go with reality. Sorry.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 18, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
Agree with that ..
… except the Forte thing, we’ll see …. we’ll know in week one.
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:57 AM CST up reply actions
Finally.....
You asked for 5 backs with the qualifications you requested. I gave you ten. Your response was to crap on four of them. Ignoring the fact that you did so without being able to say Forte was better than those backs (for example “Charles can’t block my grand ma” when Charles is a higher rated blocker than Forte) that still leaves 6 you didn’t even try to dismiss, or 1 more than you asked for………You’re welcome.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Wow .....
….. you’re very adept at bashing your own team , kudos to you . You say what you like but your wrong on this one . And yes your stats prove one thing , that his stats are lower thats it . Also he had more field time than most of the guys you listed . Were any of the guys on your list playin hurt ? No . And Westbrook didn’t even play a full season so his numbers a off due to that his stats this past season are far worse so by your rules hes out , Larry Johnson was a back up thus limiting his on field time and his carries ( 178 ), Jamaal Charles is not as good as Forte and also had far less field time and carries ( 190 ) skewing his numbers , MJD is a better back at this point , Justin Forsett is a bum and also not better and yet again less field time and carries ( 114 ) , Joe Addai is a part timer so his carries ( 219 ) and on field time skew his numbers , Kevin Smith had less yards ( 747 ) less attempts ( 217 ) a worse YPC ( 3.4 ) & was equal in TD’s ( 4 ) so your stats make him worse , Thomas Jones is better but on the downside of his career so his numbers will be slipping soon enough , Steve Slaton had less carries ( 131 ) yards ( 437 ) YPC ( 3.3 ) and less TD’s (3 ) so yet again your rules kill him , Ray Rice is probably better right now but he was healthy all season .
Seems to me most of your guys have one thing in common , they didn’t have the stats Forte did , they had limited field time , they had less carries , they had a worse YPC , some were injured for most of the season and were not as good as Matt . So there I dismissed all but a few due to their numbers being skewed due to lack of playing time , injury , ect . So your ratings are skewed due to not as many snaps for most of your guys . In this case the numbers don’t tell the whole story or the numbers lie in this case . So if nothing else provide better stats . Look at snaps , carries , ect . So there you go ……… You’re welcome .
And maybe you could cut the smarta** stuff next post . I’m all for a spirited discussion but please leave out the other stuff . Its a respect thing and I respect you and your opinion and would just like the same . So the your welcome stuff just leave it out next time if you don’t mind .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 19, 2010 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
You respect my opinion??????
How? By telling me that, because I think that one aspect of one players game is sub par that I am “very adept” at bashing my own team? Please…….
You can continue to make excuse by trying to cast aspersions on running backs who, over the past two years have ALL been higher rated in running than Forte, but it makes no difference. He is still the lowest rated runner in the league two years running.
And as far as limited snaps, 190 carries, for example, isn’t a small sample. The player (in this case Jamaal Charles) still played more than 50% of the offensive snaps for his team. And i guess you don’t have to take as many snaps when you average 5.9 yards per carry. For god’s sake , he had more yards than Forte with his 190 carries, and you think that the 190 carries is an argument in Matt’s favor? Or Forsett. The guy beats Forte in every rating this season, and broke as many tackles with less than half of the carries.
This is where I feel like you discredit your own argument.
Forsett is a bum…..a comparison…..
Snaps: Forte 866 – Forsett 472
Carries: Forte 258 – Forsett 114
Yards: Forte 929 – Forsett 623
Yards Per Carry: Forte 3.6 – Forsett 5.5
Yards After Contact: Forte 543 – Forsett 363
Yards After Contact Per Carry: Forte 2.1 – Forsett 3.2
TDs: Forte 4 – Forsett 4
Fumbles: Forte 5 – Forsett 1
Fumbles Per Carry: Forte .0194 – Forsett .0087
Broken Tackles: Forte 26 – Forsett 23
Broken Tackles Per Carry: Forte .100 – Forsett .202
QB Sacks Allowed: Forte 2 – Forsett 2
QB Hits Allowed: Forte 1 – Forsett 1
QB Pressures Allowed: Forte 17 – Forsett 2
And……
“Jamaal Charles can’t block my grand ma”
QB Sacks Allowed Forte 2 – Charles 0
QB Hits Allowed Forte 1 – Charles 0
QB Pressures Allowed Forte 17 – Charles 7
I will make this point once more. Forte ranked 30th of 31 in 2008 and 29th of 29 in 2009. There is a distinct difference between quality and quantity. Matt, at least where rushing is concerned has quantity covered.
You know what I find just as interesting as YPC? Yards after contact per carry. In other words, how far did the RB get after he was touched? Only one player in the league who takes more than 50% of the offensive snaps is worse in this stat, But he’s elusive, right?
So, only players who’ve taken as many snaps as Forte count? Ok. Maurice Jones-Drew, Chris Johnson, Ray Rice and Steven Jackson are the only other players who took over 800 offensive snaps. I don’t think you want to compare Forte to those guys. Because they all averaged a lot more yards per carry, a lot more yards after contact, a lot more yards, a lot more broken tackles and about half the fumbles. Do these numbers lie, too? Is it really about the snaps?
Why is it so wrong for me to believe that we can do better?
And before you go talking about respect again, try looking in the mirror. You have turned my argument again one aspect of one players game into a crusade to disparage the Bears and all who play for them. I would call that kind of hyperbole disrespectful. Meanwhile, I haven’t defined your position for you, nor have I told you that you were wrong for your opinion.
I want better for the Bears. Is that so wrong?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 1:52 AM CST up reply actions
What exactly.....
Are you basing your opinion on when you say that Forsett is a bum, or that Charles is not as good as Forte?
Charles Ranks 1st in the league in YPC, 1st in the league in Yards After Contact Per Carry and 4th in Broken Tackles Per Carry
Forsett Ranks 3rd in YPC, 2nd in Yards After Contact Per Carry and 1st in Broken Tackles Per Carry
Forte Ranks 26th in YPC, 26th in Yards After Contact Per Carry and 16th In Broken Tackles Per Carry.
I’m asking a serious question. I ’m trying to understand what your criteria for greatness is. To by what stick are you measuring?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
I gave you .....
…….. my criteria . Heart ,determination and grit something all the great ones have . And yet again numbers can’t quantlfy what he gives us . You go the numbers route I go the heart route . And sorry still Forsett and Charles still lack the carries thus inflating their numbers , like YPC . I have a couple of ideas here …. first we agree to disagree ( that seems easy enough ) , next lets stop this " measuring " contest , also your " your welcome " started this disrespect thing so lets end it there and I’ll get it out there now I respect your opinion , last I wasn’t attacking you rather the players you listed .
So this ends here ?
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 19, 2010 2:52 AM CST up reply actions
ummmmm.....
I have no problem agreeing to disagree as far as Forte goes (though I don’t think we disagree as much as you do. I think Forte is a great back in all catagories except running, and you think he’s a great back period.)
one note, though. Saying that Jamaal Charles doesn’t have the carries to compare stats with Forte is silly. He took 74% of the carries that Forte did. Forte took 72% of the carries that Chris Johnson did. So can we not compare Forte’s numbers because he didn’t take a legitimate number of snaps?
But……As far as the disrespect issue goes…..
“your welcome” came in response to “This kid plays hurt and you guys say how much he sucks . This kid does everything asked of him and still you don’t think hes any good…….So does anyone on our team not suck in your eyes ? You seem to think we just suck all the way around ………. Yea , yea you go with numbers….But like I said you keep your numbers if thats what makes you happy ……”. That was respectful? That was somehow your response to my comments directed at another commenter that I thought were too harsh against Matt.
I’ll defend Forte all day long if someone says that he sucks (which I haven’t said) and I’ll defend our team all day when someone claims we don’t have the talent to win (contrary to what you said above, I believe my body of work here speaks to that.) Matt is one of the best receiving RBs in the game, and is a fine blocker as well. I’ve repeated this over and over again. He just isn’t a great runner. And your response was effectively that because I don’t support Forte that I don’t support the Bears. That because I think one aspect of Matt’s game is bad, that I like tearing down my team, even though I have been a constant defender of the talent on this team. I’m not sure where that conclusion came from, but you might want to click my name and check out my posts around the site, brother. You’ll find that I am one of the most ardent supporters of the talent level of this team’s players that there is, and that I blame the majority of our failings on the coaching staff, not the players.
You blew up my not liking Forte’s running into me saying Forte sucks, not liking the talent on this team, and somehow decided that because Matt has guts, he’s a great runner. I disagree. Watch some tape of Jamaal Charles or Justin Forsett and tell me that these kids don’t have heart. Heart means a lot, and Cedric Benson proves that. But production means more. That doesn’t mean I don’t like the talent on my team. It just means that I’m not satisified with a running back who has been rated last in the league in rushing his whole career.
And to be honest, I’d rather see Forte in a Bears Uni as the compliment than anywhere else. What I’d really love is to see Forte put on 20 lbs of muscle and replace McKie at FB. He’s a better blocker and a better receiver, and those are the qualities the Bears look for in a FB. But that’s not likely to happen.
I’ll ask one last time. Why is it so wrong for me to want more out of the most storied position on the Chicago offense? Would it make me a real fan to just settle?
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
ok...
if he is awful at running im sure he wouldnt be a starting RB in the NFL. Thank the lord you have no control over this franchise. Forte is not awful. Right now i’d say he is average, but when Our line was good he ran very well at the end of the season. Just like when the line played well an the end of the seaon Cutler played well. The NFL isnt just about personal talent…christ. Did you even play football as a child? or did you bash every pop warner player as well
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
Thanks Rakman86....
……… I thought I was alone one this one .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 19, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
What's with all the personal attacks.....
just because I happen to disagree with settling for the lowest ranked back in the league in running over the last two year?
Look, you and I happen to agree most of the time. As a matter of fact, I believe that this is the first time that you and I (or Midway and I for that matter) have disagreed.
But I find fault in the idea that we shouldn’t be trying to upgrade a position that has been last in the league in it’s most important role for two years. Matt is a great receiving RB, and a fine blocker. But he was rated last amongst RB who played 50% of their teams offensive snaps for the past two years in rushing. How is that acceptable?
We’re begging for new linemen, new safeties, and new DE’s. Yet none of those positions ranked last in the league for us. Our RB did, two years in a row, and we’re not supposed to start talking about an upgrade? Seriously?
And I’m the one that everyone should fear running Our Bears? Isn’t that the same attitude that got us here? Rex Grossman come to mind? Same argument, different year. “Average” doesn’t place last in the league. Forte does.
The personal talent argument doesn’t hold water, considering that every team with a worse offensive line has a RB rated higher than Matt. Why aren’t they worse? I posted the stats on this thread.
Your attacks are juvenile. I have spent far more time defending players on our team than arguing against them, as this is really the only time I have stated that I was down on one of our players. I’ve written two posts defending the talent on this team.
But I state that one player on this team is less than average and suddenly I never played football (played in college, BTW) and I bash every pop warner player.
But instead of formulating an argument, you want to yell “Uh-uh, and you eat do-doo! So there!”
GTFO……..
I have no problems debating the point. But this is getting ridiculous Emotion is not an argument…..
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
Ummm.....
……. I played a little college ball myself so your point is ……. I didn’t bash you rather I disagreed with your argument end of story . And being a former player( be it pop warner , high school or college ) you should know better than anyone numbers are deceiving .
Why are you so down on a guy who rushed for , in his rookie season over 1200 yards ( 316 for 1238 and 8 TD’s to be exact ) and caught 60 + balls ( 63 for 477 and 4 TD’s ) in an awful offense ? You do realize that thats 1716 yards from a rookie ? That his average per touch is 4.52 every time we got the ball to him ? And yes this was a down season for him but he was hurt . Even the greats couldn’t play through an ACL and a hammy and still be as productive . And even with that injury he still managed 900+ yards ( 258 for 929 and 4 TD’s ) and caught another 50+ balls ( 57 for 471 ) which is good for any injured player . That still equates to 4.4 yards per touch , be it handin it to him or throwin it to him . So hes definitly an above average player ….. when healthy .
And heres the fumble isuue revisited . AP ( in Minny ) career wise has 20 fumbles and has lost a whopping 13 of them ( 2007 Fum 4 , lost 3 …. 2008 Fum 9, lost 4….. 2009 Fum 7 , lost 6 ) . Forte on the other hand has 7 fumbles with 4 lost career wise . So he’d have to fumble 13 more , in one season , and lose 9 to catch " Fumbles " Peterson . And by the way his rookie season HE FUMBLED ONCE !!!!! And this season you could tell he was pushing for thing that weren’t there and that caused some of his fumbles this past season .
So theres what I got to say . He’s a soild all around guy who is a better rusher than given credit for . His vision is great , his jukes are amazing , his power running could use a little work , but as a whole this guy could be a upper tier guy rushing wise . He’s already one of the best pass catchers out of the back field and is a soild blocker in pass protection . So why so down on him ? He is a promising , young back who needs only to develope further to be one of the best .
And if you think I came at you , personally my bad . Never meant any of it that way just tryin to get my point across .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 20, 2010 2:47 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you......
for a much more civil post. I honestly appreciate it. And I don’t mind the disagreement, but I don’t like the whole “since you don’t like Forte, you hate all the Bears” argument. As to my playing and the point? Rakman asked a direct question….“Did you even play football as a child?”. So I answered.
As far as Matt goes, I understand that he rushed for 1200 yards his rookie season. I also understand that he rushed for less than 4 yards a carry and that he was near the bottom of the league in yards after contact per carry in both his seasons. I know that numbers don’t always tell the whole story. I agree completely. But for a guy with so much heart, how is it that he gets so few yard after contact when e runs the ball? Why is he so easy to take down? I don’t disagree that he has heart, don’t get me wrong. I COMPLETELY agree that he has a ton of heart. That’s what worries me. He has tons of heart and still can’t move defenders and that makes the problem a skill issue.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have heart. I’m saying that he isn’t elusive (A couple of good jukes does not make a RB elusive, and having one of the worst ypc and yards after contact per carry of all starting RBs 2 years running does not indicate ellusive) and he doesn’t possess the ability to power through defenders. I’m saying that he isn’t a good runner. I am not saying he sucks or that I don’t like him. Again, I think he’s the best receiving halfback in the league (Not one of, but THE). I think he’s a top 5 blocking halfback. And I think he is playing the wrong position. He has exactly the skill set that 90% of the teams in the league now want in a fullback.
But his rushing skills leave something to be desired.
Jamaal Charles has 9 start and 6 100 yards games in 2 years (remember that he was backing up Larry Johnson last season). Matt has 32 starts and 5 100 yard games. Honestly, If Charles and Forte were both on our team, would you be calling for Forte to start?
Now, I also understand that Forte will be a receiving beast out of the new system. I have absolutely no doubts. But RB are supposed to be runners first, and Matt has been ranked last in the league in both of his seasons.
Was he the worst rusher in the league? were his numbers telling the whole story? Nope. But should his bottom dwelling numbers be completely dismissed? Looking simply at his 1200 yards in his rookie season is the same argument that those pesky Emmitt Smith fans use to equate him to Sweetness. But if you look at Smith’s numbers per carry, you see that he is one of the least effective rushers in the hall of fame. Still very effective, but not as effective as a guy like Walter Payton.
I don’t think that Matt is the worst RB in the league, no. But I want better for Chicago. Why does that piss so many people off? Especially when you look at how vehemently I have defended the players on this team in other situations. I’m not a Bear hater, or some Broncos fan in disguise. I’m not one of those negative guys who think we don’t have the talent to win now. I simply see Forte’s running ability as a liability, especially in obvious running situations.
As I said before, I would love to see Matt gain 15 to 20 lbs of muscle and take Jason McKie’s job away from him and for the Bears to bring in a RB threat that defenses will still try to crowd the box against.
As far a AP and fumbling goes. I agree, he is a more consistent fumbler than Forte (though I would actually credit his increased fumbles to his injury rather than trying harder. I know some people will claim that a knee injury won’t cause fumbles, but let’s see those same people not loosen their grip when they get a sharp pain shooting up their leg). I wasn’t claiming otherwise. My point was that while AP does fumble a lot, perception is worse than reality. Walter fumbled 30 times in his first three seasons. AP fumbled 20. Does that make him a better back than Sweetness? Nope.
I don’t think the Bears will crumble with Forte as the back next year. And, because of Forte’s work ethic and character, it wouldn’t surprise me if he turned around the things that have bothered me about him. I hope he does, because he is a great receiving back and will be important to the blocking scheme in the new offense. But my big problem is that I haven’t seen a whole lot of backs learn how to gain more yards after contact.
But honestly, I’d be happy to be wrong.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 20, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Wow you guys gotta start this thread back over to the left.
And to your point that Charles would start over Forte, thats fine but that still doesnt mean that Forte isnt solid enough to be COMPLIMENTARY BACK with someone else. EVERY good team in the league has two if not 3 guys that are SOLID BACKS. i.e.Jets, Cowboys, Giants, etc.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
by ANYTIME09 on Feb 20, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, no, no....LOL.
Apparently I didn’t get my point across well enough. Matt Forte would NOT be a solid complimentary back. He would be an OUTSTANDING complimentary back. I do NOT think that Forte sucks. I think he is a below average runner, but arguably the best receiving HB and blocking HB in the league.
And again, my biggest hope for Matt is that he puts on 15 to 20 ils and takes the FB spot away from McKie. He would be a sure All-Pro.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 20, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
That FB talk is crazy, he can barely brake a tackle yet you want him to downfield block??!?!??!?!
The point is for me at least, dont blame Forte for being below average, blame management for again (like making Hester the ONLY experienced WR) making Forte our all or nothing back and bringing in a joke like Kevin Jones.
Had they brought in someone good enough to help Forte we might be talking about how badass Forte is.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Forte....
was the 4th ranked blocker amongst HBs his rookie year. His blocking skills are not in question. Breaking a tackle isn’t the same think as blocking.
Wait, first I’m bad because I disagree with Forte being good at something he was bottom ranked in, then I’m wrong because I like something he does that he was 4th ranked in?
I call shenanigans on you guys! :D
I do completely agree with the management part of your comment, though.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 21, 2010 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Im talking about downfield blocking, which is a lot different than protection 3rd down blocking.
And you HAVE to admit the numbers done tell the whole story with this guy.
Rookie Year: Above Average RB
Second Year: Below Average RB
Basically, an average RB until further notice, agreed??
Please agree! : )
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Wreck'd to T-train.
Constructive criticism. He simply pointed out important facts about Forte. I want a RB who can run for 1400+ yd’s in a season and block as well. Being a Bears fan, I really dont think that is asking too much.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 21, 2010 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
Ditto
I want a tight end that can catch 10 TDs a year and also put linebackers on their butts when it’s time to do so …. is that asking too much ? From Greg Olsen it is, I’m glad we signed Angulo …
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 3:02 AM CST up reply actions
sorry for the personal attack
i got excited…and when i get excited i lose my mind lol. But yeah, we are all here to talk bears football and the last thing I want is for fans from other teams to come here and see that all we do is yell and argue amongst each other. I apologize for those that a took unacceptable jabs at. I agree in making moves to get better, i just dont think trading away Forte is a move you make to improve.
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
right on dude
If Forte can bust out with a 1400 yard season, i will be on board for sure.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 22, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
NP, bro.....
we all get a bit jacked up sometimes :)
And I would prefer not trading Forte. But if it upgrades the team, I’m all for it. I’d trade Urlacher if it made the Bears better. One player is not the team, and Forte has been a below average runner at best.
But I would far prefer that Rolle came here under other circumstances, and that we brought in another back, too. Matt is valuable in other areas, and is still, regardless of running ability, an asset.
I’ve said it over and over again, and I’ll say it a bunch more times……
Forte would be a All-Pro FB with 15-20 extra lbs. Soft hand and concentration, along with exceptional blocking skills would make him a beast. from that position, I would be up in arms about losing him…….
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
You don't know that ...
He had a great rookie season, injured for his Sophomore (with no OL help), and suddenly you know more than the professional backs who said the guy was special ? Give the guy a break …
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:50 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you T- big rec
We think alike, but you come more prepared than me.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Thanks, bro......
I’ve been doin’ this a long time, bro. And stating is what I do best.
It feels good to be appreciated :)
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 18, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Charles also got to run against
the AFC west run defenses which were terrible..
" We get off the bus running! What do you mean we are a passing team? you don't agree with how I do things? You're fired!"
- Lovie Smith-
What's with this ranking of 30th of 32 (not 31!) ?
He had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever, where does this crap come from ?
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 25, 2010 2:48 AM CST up reply actions
Fact...
Bears eat beets…
Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica.
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Feb 18, 2010 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i was
LIVID reading some of the absurd posts that are on here until i got to this one. I love you…thanks for saving my day.
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
Absurd posts based on fact?
The posts and opinions on here that lack substantiated facts are the ones that are rediculous and baseless. No one should judge a player by heart, grit, or will without stats/numbers/production. Do you know how many players failed in the NFL because they couldn’t produce, but happened to have great character? The list is endless….
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
And I'll give .....
…… you one name . This player survived on heart , grit and determiniation with limited physical skills …….. Emmit Smith .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 22, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Did you disregard this?
No one should judge a player by heart, grit, or will without stats/numbers/production.
That’s why I said “without.” Smith is currently the leading rusher of all-time!
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Not to mention....
saying Emmitt Smith had limited skill is a little ridiculous. He wasn’t Walter Payton, but he wasn’t just some average back, either. Try watching some tape of the guy. Definitely takes away from the limited physical skills idea….
Here’s a good one (partially cause it includes some clips of sweetness and in set to killer music)
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
Guy was tough
one of the greatest runners between the tackles ever and great around the goal line.
" We get off the bus running! What do you mean we are a passing team? you don't agree with how I do things? You're fired!"
- Lovie Smith-
I don't understand
Brady juked Urlacher in 06, does that mean Brady is a great runner?
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 19, 2010 3:59 AM CST up reply actions
+1
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 8:14 AM CST up reply actions
You're my hero.
:]
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by Ashley Czuba on Feb 19, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Um...
The average life span of a NFL RB is like 3-5 years. If Forte keeps up is pace as one of the worst running, RBs he’ll be lucky to make it five years. There are currently 62 higher rated halfbacks according to PFF. Again, it’s difficult to dispute these facts. Any argument would be futile, and prove to be paper-thin.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
ummmm Matt's avg too
I only like this deal if we get Chester Taylor. INTs aren’t everything and are often misleading. I like Matt, but chester is better. Bowmans ok in my eyes but Cromartie is above avg imo. No not eliete but above avg
Bowman has the potential to be a better CB
then you are making him out to be. The guy has only played one season for us basically and still led the team in INT’s. Give him more time before you label him.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't lable him
all I said was he is “ok” in my eyes. The guy droped severl picks and got beat more than people seem to remember. &, picks aint everything
I sort of agree...
I think Bowman has serious potential, but his abilities are more befitting of a Nickel. I actually think he could be a beast as the nickel, and that he would have even more opportunities for interceptions from that role. And three CBs that are all effective would be a nice change of pace, considering that we have spent year hoping we had two.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 20, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
D. Manning can play the nickel
if we can stop playing “musical safeties” and pick up a solid starter. Bowman is good right where he is.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 22, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
How is placing a corner at the.......
nickel CORNER position playing musical safeties? Manning is a safety. continuing to swith him back and forth between FS and nickel would be to continue to play musical safeties, which is the whole problem to begin with. Asking Manning to continue to try and develop at two positions simultaneously is just unsustainable. The Bears would be better served letting Manning concentrate on the FS spot, which is exactly why Lovie will keep moving him back and forth.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
everyone was calling him
the second comming after his rookie year. he set bears rookie records
If he was injured that year, then he plays a badass injured guy. w.e injury he had that year, lets give it back to him,
Do or do not there is not try-Master Yoda
by suckmyditka on Feb 19, 2010 12:38 AM CST up reply actions
nobody wants him
he’s another guy I said was overrated when everyone was calling him the “interceptor”. That int is sooooooooo misleading for the casual fan
yes
finding a real good corner back is tougher than finding a real good running back
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Feb 17, 2010 8:32 AM CST reply actions
See Bailey/Portis deal
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
that was my 1st thought
That deal worked out for both teams, but IMO Champ Bailey is more valuable player
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Feb 17, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
Move Tillman to FS
And I’d be a total fan of this deal. With Cutler in town, I don’t feel like we need to focus on having a stellar RB. Don’t get me wrong, the RB position is valuable, but with the Cutler + Martz combo likely airing it out next year, plus a defense that badly needs a lot of reworking to add talent, being able to pull off a trade for a playmaking CB in exchange for a serviceable RB would be fantastic.
I can't help but to link this here.
However, it will conveniently pop when you click it.
Sending condolences and peaceful thoughts to the family and community of Gaines Adams.
by Dane Noble on Feb 17, 2010 9:02 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
it did conveniently pop for me :)
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 17, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Ha, I've seen that one before.
Always good for a laugh.
Besides, the better Cromartie is in Arizona.
Lifelong Arizona Cardinals/Chicago Bears fan.
I can't stand band-wagoner fans, stick with your team, throughout the good and the bad.
:-D
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
"if we need it, we’re not drafting it. not high anyway. look for Angelo to go after a DL/DE – because that’s just the kind of asshat he is.." - junkhorse
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
i think Forte
really puts up gooooood numbers in Martz’s system. I’d like to keep him. Lose Forte them every D we play knows we have no real run threat…then we can expect another 25+ INT season for Cutler..
(this is where people start telling me that Bell is a baller because he had that 1 long run…..and begin)
"I wouldn't ever set out to hurt anyone deliberately unless it was important -- like a league game." - Dick Butkus
xbox live gamertag - rakman86
are you kidding
Bell is a total Baller… and i’m basing that all on a single long run (in which he got chased down and tackled)
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 17, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because of Devin Hester just ask Irish Bears or his boy ROY.
Trade Him, TRADE Him, TRADE HIM!!!!!!!!! LOL
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Hester's fault.
This is why Hester, like Olsen, is hurting the Bears. They only do half their jobs. If Hester is awake and aware, Bell gets in for a 90 yard TD.
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 17, 2010 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
It was Hester's fault, I agree.
Otherwise it is a TD for Bell BUT I hate how certain people think that Bell is all of a sudden the answer at #2 because he had a couple good carries. Peterson has success on occasions too but we sure as hell won’t be putting him at the #2 spot will we? Bell hasn’t proven anything to make people start gushing over him.
Hester isn’t hurting the Bears, the Bears hurt Hester by making him into a position mutt instead of letting him excel in what he does best. The thought of making Hester into a #1 wideout was cancerous to his return abilities but I do believe he is a good receiver and I am excited that it appears he will finally be utilized in a manner that will suit him and his abilities best this season. He is expendable but I would be disappointed to see him go.
Olsen has great potential but he is his own worst enemy. The guy needs to quit twittering what bar he’s going to be at and focus more on his play. If anyone went to camp last summer, he was showing exactly why he was expected to be a breakout player and Jay’s security blanket but it didn’t translate into the regs. He needs to start playing his size instead of like a punk, nobody that big needs to be so damn afraid to take a hit. Must be all that country music he listens to.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 18, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
not anymore but he should have been
speaking of our AP. Whenever this guy has been giving the chance to carry the ball he has done a pretty decent job. Since he doesn’t have that top speed or quickness, he gets written off but watch film, the guy always got it done. I say this as in how he was, now he’s almost done
This will be the first year since 2007 since Hester FINALLY has WRs going into the year that are better than him.
And in 2007 he had 6 returns for TDs and 2 receptions for TDs, now 3 years later he now has a firm grasp on how to play the position at a high level and he wont be keyed in on as much as he has in the past, this should be a BIG year for Hester.
ENOUGH with the “he should have blocked Samuel”, we get it. Its like it was the season changing play or something geez. Irish Bears talks about that play more than any play this season and you PSDB are teetering in the same category. LET IT GO
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Yeah right..
I said I agreed with him that he should have picked up his man but then went on to defend him and your telling me I’m teetering in the same category? Shut up already, you’re just being all defensive because of your man-love for him.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yea but you always bring that play up as well and act like it still wasnt a huge play for us. Instead of complaining about Hester not blocking on that play, why dont you complain about Cutler missing Hester on that dirty double move for a TD?
Was that not a bigger play in that game or am I missing something. Come by and watch all 16 games and I could show you a TON of plays where the player on one side is half assing it because he knows its a run to the other side. Hester is not the only one that is guilty of that, trust me. So quit acting like it. You and Irish Bears and his boy Roy who sucks at breaking down film, yea I said it.
You said turning him into a WR was cancerous to his return game and I disagree. Losing Ayanbedejo, thats cancerous. Losing Moose and Berrian to take the focus off Hester thats cancerous. Management always putting everything on his shoulders, thats cancerous. Devin doing his job is not cancerous.
I could name more than 15 players that are just fine playing special teams and offense with no complaints. But according to Bears fans thats a task that no one is able to do.
But in this city everyones waiting for the worst and all those people that were saying putting him at WR would change him at KR/PR are coming out of the woodwork. Yet no one mentions the fact that the FIRST year he was a WR (which should be his toughest year) he had no problems taking back 6 to the house. And since the magic ended we get all these " I TOLD U SOERS" all over this website.
There is absolutely no guarantee that had we never moved him to WR that he would have 12 more kick returns for TDs. And if I was a betting man, I would say that he wouldnt of been able to keep up with that pace anyways. And I would love for you to say that he wasnt a good returner this year. So in the end whats the difference other than the fact that we have another solid weapon that can play offense and special teams.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Yea my bad I do get a little defensive.
When “Bears Fans” want to say our best WR, who had the most catches, receiving yards, targets, percentage of targets caught, AND gives a solid contribution to the best special teams unit in the league.
Why isnt Johnny Knox expendable?? Oh thats right youve got some man-love for someone as well.
None of our WRs are “expendable” with the exception of waste of space davis.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
I don't have man love for Johnny
if you’ve read anything else I’ve said on here regarding wideouts I’m not really gushing over him in any respects. And we’re the 6th best special teams unit in the league.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Yea last year but under Toubs career we are the best, bar none.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
And my point is you would rather keep Knox than Hester, right??? If it came down to it.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
definitely would NOT keep Knox over Hester.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Alright then theres my point.
You would go out of your way to point out Hesters one or two bad plays and use that as substance to call him expendable yet Knox doesnt get the same criticism, I just dont get that.
So what if you wouldnt keep Knox over Hester, and you think Hester is expendable, than that doesnt say much for our WRs in your opinion. Yet all of them had solid years and all of them are EXTREMELY YOUNG with a HUGE ceiling. Dont you see that yet?!?!?!
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Hester is expendable
Knox is expendable, Bennett is expendable, Olsen is expendable, Aromashodu is expendable but my point in all of this is only if we can get something dynamite for one of them. I think we have a good set of wideouts coming up to where if Hester is only going to be used as a WR and we can get some real value out of him with a big name wideout (no picks unless a 1st) then i would understand. But if you would have noticed I still said I would be disappointed to see him go. I definitely believe in our wideouts but getting rid of Hester for a big time WR is still a move I think would be the right one.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
Well we wouldnt get a #1 for him so why make a horizontal move???
And you need 6 Targets in a Mike Martz system, so all of them are definitely NOT expendable.
Youll see, like I said this year will be the first year Hester doesnt have to shoulder ALL of the WR responsibilities. I thought before last year that there could be chance that Hester was a #3 or #4 but it was a year premature, I feel more confident about that statement now for sure.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
They are all expendable
when we are only getting rid of one of them. If we could trade Hester and a 2nd for Marshall, Boldin or. V. Jackson would you do it?
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions
I honestly wouldnt trade any of them. We dont have a second anyways. Boldin asking price will be for a second rounder and thats it
I love how Aromashadu is all of a sudden a for sure #1, I mean Im hoping for the best but man he makes one or two plays and everyones pinning him in, yet Hester does it for 2 years and the guy sucks.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
next year's second
I know we don’t have a second. Everyone will be offering a 2nd for Boldin, it’s going to take more to sway Arizona. Aromashodu has the potential to be that #1 guy and his size is basically what pushes it. Not to mention in the time he played this season he played very well and he became Jay’s favorite target. He’s got great hands and I know it’s debatable but he made a few grabs that Hester wouldn’t and those usually came because Jay threw them too high, like in the Minnesota game.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
Im just wondering when Hester is going to do alright in your book
What does he have to do next year to have you never bring up his name again??
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Why do you think im hating on hester?
I was giving Aromashodu the benefit of the doubt based on his size and the way he came alive when we finally gave him a chance. I’m sorry but I do not want Hester to be our #1 wideout, that’s all. I’m glad he’s a Bear and I hope he really turns it on this year, based on his steady progression from season to season he should do just that.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
I've been trying to respond to your first paragraph
this whole time but I keep getting interrupted so I give up. Just so you know I only brought that play up before around the time that it happened so you can’t blame me for that. Don’t compare me to Irish Bears fan either, that’s just plain cruel.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 6:30 PM CST up reply actions
Just admit, you are an in the closet Hester Hater.
You just had to tone it down a notch this year because you actually have football knowledge unlike our friend Irish Bears. And you know that you cant say he sucks at WR, so now your just putting a little dressing over it and calling him “expendable”
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
hahahaha.
I haven’t read anything of what you’ve said yet in response but it’s funny that it led you to write so much. Now I’ll read it.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
I hate when you say you dont read my stuff.
And I dont understand why going into detail is soo freakin funny.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
It's funny because I barely said anything
for you to unleash 3 huge posts about. Hold on, you are interrupting my response and reading time.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 19, 2010 5:49 PM CST up reply actions
Nope.....
I don’t think that Bell is a “baller”. I think he could be, but I don’t know. What I do know is that Forte is average, and there are no shortage of average RBs in the league. There is certainly a shortage of good CB’s, tackling skills aside.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
I'd argue that Forte is better than average.
If, on a scale of 1-10, with 8 being Pro Bowl caliber, I’d put Forte at a 7 right now.
He is shiftier than most RBs in the league, and has way above-average vision. 2009 was a bad year for him, but I’d lay most of that on the very poor OL, and the nursing of his injury all year. 2010 will be better.
Sending condolences and peaceful thoughts to the family and community of Gaines Adams.
+1
hes definitely not average i see him as a big contributor this season alot of us thought he was hurt and evidently thats what it was.
Cromarties tackling worries me…..ALOT
by Bear Lovin 21 on Feb 17, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
+2
Forte played injuried last season , before that not a one of us would have said trade Forte . I agree with Dane and Bear Lovin 21 , this kid will shine in 2010 .
Cromartie is a good corner but hes not worth Forte in my opinion . Now you change the corner to Nnamdi Asomugha and my opinion may change .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 17, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
What tackling?
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
for the record, that video doesn't exactly paint an accurate picture......
Some interesting stats on Crom, Peanut and Bowman
Overall Ranking amongst CBs who took 75% of defensive snaps
AC 21st of 41
CT 28th
ZB 38th
Ranking in run coverage
AC 17th
CT 30th
ZB 31st
Ranking in coverage
CT 24th
AC 27th
ZB 35th
Ranking in pass rushing (all actually had attempts)
CT 12th
AC 13th
ZB 41st
Ranking in Missed Tackles (lower is better, folks)
CT 31st (5)
AC & ZB tied 22nd (6)
Ranking for QB rating when thrown into their coverage (same)
AC 15th (70.9)
ZB 21st (76.0)
CT 33rd (97.3)
% of passes caught into their coverage (the lower the better)
AC 24th (57.0%)
ZB 12th (64.0%)
CT 10th (65.3%)
TDs against (again, lower is better)
AC 25th (2)
ZB 11th (4)
CT 1st (6)
Penalties against (same, again)
AC 24th (3)
ZB 20th (4)
CT 6th (6)
Bowman and Tillman missed about as many tackle, but I want to point out that they went for a lot more tackles, too. Tillman had 68, Bowman had 55 and Cromartie only had a very Deion Sanders-ish 31. He’s not exactly trying to get in the way as much. I thought that the missed tackles needed to be put into perspective. None the less, Crom comes up higher on the run-defending rankings than either Peanut or Zack.
I still think Crom is a step up.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
Jeez man.
I was joking.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
lol!
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 8:28 AM CST up reply actions
haha, much better
I know you’ve had a rough thread…I think smudgers is giving out hugs.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
-------
"Newbie, if the next two words out of your mouth aren't 'See ya' then the third word will be 'Oh my god. My crotch. You've punched me in my crotch." - Dr. Percival Ulysses Cox
by David Taylor on Feb 19, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
I needed that! :D
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 20, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Imagine how much we’d love him in our one-gap control scheme, where the CBs have to make the tackles on the outside…..
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
"if we need it, we’re not drafting it. not high anyway. look for Angelo to go after a DL/DE – because that’s just the kind of asshat he is.." - junkhorse
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
According to his YPC and toughness
running the ball between the tackles he’s well below average. As far as a pass-catcher I’d say he’s certainly in the upper tier for RBs.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
With his nagging injury in 2009,
and our OL, I have no doubt his numbers were below average. But I wouldn’t say that one bad year of Fantasy numbers puts him in the average/below average category of RBs in this league.
And pass-catching… +1. I forgot to include that part in my original comment. Definitely upper-tier.
Sending condolences and peaceful thoughts to the family and community of Gaines Adams.
More reality than fantasy though
No matter the format, he was below average last season as well as this season.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
So we ....
………. don’t take into account he was injured all season ( and still played ) and our o-line was , at best , really bad ? Sorry I done buy into that it was all his fault and he is below average . He played through injuries that would have sidelined most and you’re choosing to kill him for being what we needed , a tough guy with a heart ? And your going as far to say he’s gonna be below average this season ? Thats just hogwash period . Forte will return to his rookie form and then some . Martz , as much as I don’t like him , will utlize Forte’s strengths and he will show all you false prophets what he flashed in his rookie year .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 17, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
No
I didn’t mean this upcoming season, but his first two as a pro. I agree, it wasn’t all his fault, but Dane was insinuating that he was an upper-echelon NFL RB when he’s obviously not one. Did his injury and poor offensive line play cause him to have a bad year? Not sure, cause his rookie stats are almost identical as his ‘09 numbers. I do think he’ll be a good fit in Martz’s system because defenses will fear the deep ball, and there should be plenty of running room underneath for him to exploit.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
I see what your......
……… sayin but his injury and o-line play did directly effect his play . His injury being the real issue and the o-line being a secondary issue . Behind a good o-line he’s a great , uper-tier back , but behind our line he looks average . Funny Cedric Benson looked like a complete hack behind our line ……. how’d he do this past season ? Matt Forte can be a upper tier back when healthy . He can’t do alone though , he needs his line to open up holes and this past season they didn’t do their job thus making it difficult for him to perform at the level he is capable of .
Also his stats may be close in his first two seasons , but you could see that he was injured last season . In his rookie season he was making guys miss and smashin fools when he could . This season he didn’t seem to have his wiggle and was forced to be something he wasn’t , a strait line runner with no moves . His knee and hamstring injuries definitely effected his play .
by MidWayMonster54 on Feb 17, 2010 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
CB vs. MT
It’s not fair to compare the two because it’s pretty obvious Cedric wasn’t motivated during his time in Chicago, and Matt is a very motivated player. Once he got his “head on straight” he became a different player. I don’t believe a good offensive line, better coaching could’ve helped CB when he was here. I guess we’ll see how effective Forte is this season, and whether or not his injury really hampered his production. Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy and hope he’s a stud in ’10!
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
agreed.....
Can’t make the comparison. Benson had to grow up. Forte was a man when he got here. I like the guy. I just wish he was a better runner, though I love his receiving and blocking skills.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
I'd give Matt a 6......
His vision is NOT above average. I disagree completely. Chris Johnson has better than average vision. LT has better than average vision. Thomas Jones has better than average vision. Matt Forte does not have above average vision. He DOES have above average receiving skills. A few things to consider:
Forte: rankings amongst peers per ProFootballFocus….
2008
Overall- 7th of the 31 RBs who took at least 50% of offensive snaps
Run- 30th
Receiving- 1st
Blocking- 4th
Attempts- 4th-316
Yards- 7th-1238
YPC- 21st-3.9
Yards After Contact per Carry- 30th-2.2
Tackles Broken- 18th-22
Fumbles- 1st-0
2009
Overall- 29th of 29
Run- 29th
Receiving- 10th
Blocking- 28th
Attempts- 8th-258
Yards- 17th-929
YPC- 26th-3.6
Yards After Contact per Carry- 26th-2.1
Broken Tackles- 11th-26
Fumbles- 29th-5
Notice, for all those that rave about him being injured this season, that Matt was 30th rushing in ’08. Look at the numbers, rather than the placement, though. He has been sub-4.0 in YPC, and near the bottom of yards YAC/carry both years. This is not a sign of an above average back.
I don’t want this to come off as me disliking Matt Forte. I think he’s a good player, and his skill set will work well in Martz’s offense. Really well in the receiving category. But am I satisfied with Forte? Nope. I’ll give him a pass because of his injury this season (which you can clearly see DID have an effect on his blocking. I think his receiving stats were the result of fewer check-downs because of the differences between Orton and Cutler), but if he doesn’t show something that separates him from the bottom half of the league in rushing before the mid-point of the season, I think it might be time for Matt to start splitting carries with someone, at best.
And I honestly think that anyone who sees what Matt has done so far, in ’08 or ’09 as being on the cusp of Pro-Bowl quality mixed up quality with quantity. But all that could change with the new system. Forte is much more suited to this kind of ossense than the power running game we were running.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
That's why it's imperative
the Bears pick up another RB who can potentially start or sub in effectively. I’d imagine it will be through the draft since they would prefer to spend more on the defensive line and secondary.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Forgot +1
Nice post btw.
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
no way
cromartie was a one year wonder in 2007. he hasn’t been the same. his run support is suspect and his coverage is about average. His true skill lies in putting himself in a position to make plays on the ball.
he’s a younger, faster nathan vasher. We don’t need another one.
if anything, i’d trade for him to see if we could move him to free safety. he’s a ballhawk. that’s one of the top things you look for in a FS.
Safetys no matter which one free or strong
Need to tackle preferably destory.
An example: Mike Brown on Pollard
by Bear Lovin 21 on Feb 17, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Correct
However, Cromartie would play CB.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
Sorry, no However needed.
Just he’d play CB. To put him anywhere else would be ridiculous.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves
Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers
I am not a big fan of trading one talent for another...
Trades are rare in the NFL and generally not a great idea. However, I do believe the Cutler trade was both good for the Bears and Broncos at the same time. The dynamics of having a comparatively large roster (compared to baseball at what, a 25 man roster) make trades less likely to be useful because there are so many holes to fill on any given team. It’s hard enough to get starting caliber players at any one position, let alone lose one to a trade. As I’ve said before about Peppers and many others, if I believed the Bears were legitimately one player away from being a SB contender, than it might make sense, but the Bears are about 5-7 players away from that, so why trade one position problem for another?
IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!
No way.
I love Forte! He’s my boy! :]
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
No way.
Matt Forte will be pro,for Mike Martz system.
No
cornerback is not a huge worry for us. We are not great there but we are not terrible. i am not in favor of creating a huge hole at rb for a guy that had one very good year.
" We get off the bus running! What do you mean we are a passing team? you don't agree with how I do things? You're fired!"
- Lovie Smith-
The Bears Staff will never do it. And this is Why.....
The bears released Benson and traded Jones, and they both have gone on to have great seasons with other teams. If the Bears Org. do trade Forte for Cromartie and Forte becomes a star RB with that High-Power offense in San Diego. Someone will have to explain that one to the Bears fans that love there Great Running-backs and Defense.
I also really like Dunta.
Stupid Labor problems!
im pretty sure he's unrestricted
by DaHamsta on Feb 17, 2010 9:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
My bad, your right.....
Still doesn’t mean that McCaskey’s would shell out the money, though. And there is talk that the Texans will tag him again……
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
well duh!!!!!
who wouldn’t, but that ain’t gonna happen unless the CBA situation is fixed in the next 15 days. And it probably wouldn’t happen even if it was fixed. Stupid McCaskey’s……………….
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 17, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
BearNecessities...
Good thinking, but you gotta wonder if the Bears management has even thought of this so far.
"I am not an animal!" - Merrick
nope
Cromartie hasn’t been the same for the past two years, the hip injury really looks like it has hampered his coverage, especially against faster/shiftier receivers.
oh, and he doesn’t tackle.
keep Forte please, and let him catch 90 balls for 10 tds in Martzfest 2010
by PrincetonCubs on Feb 17, 2010 5:21 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Rec
let him catch 90 balls for 10 tds in Martzfest 2010
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players." -Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
As far as i'm concerned
Both ways equal a win. I have liked Forte since his Tulane day’s. I also think Cromartie would be an excellent CB in our system and allow us to move Tillman to FS.
Cromartie? Is this how he picked up that hip injury?
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
"if we need it, we’re not drafting it. not high anyway. look for Angelo to go after a DL/DE – because that’s just the kind of asshat he is.." - junkhorse
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
By giving birth to them, yes.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 18, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Heh. I’ve seen women rugby players who tackle far, far better than him.
"F*** everybody outside of Halas Hall. BEARDOWN" - WavyGravy
"if we need it, we’re not drafting it. not high anyway. look for Angelo to go after a DL/DE – because that’s just the kind of asshat he is.." - junkhorse
"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
Me too!!
"A lot of fans were drawn to me because they knew that whatever the score was, I was going to run as hard as I could on every play. You don't have that now, you have guys waiting for next week or even next year." - Walter Payton
by Ashley Czuba on Feb 19, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know
Though if the bears could trade for him with somebody who is replaceable then with Charles Tillman the Bears would have a real solid duo of cornerbacks.
if we can land chester taylor, then i would be all for this trade, we could start bowman and cromartie at corner and move tillman to safety where his skillset would be better suited
by l3ig_lvlike_430 on Feb 18, 2010 10:06 AM CST reply actions
I'd love to see it, but.....
Tillman will NEVER be moved to safety. It’s not going to happen. He makes far too much money, and he wouldn’t want to take a pay cut to move to a position he has to try and learn at this point in his career. I hear this wish all the time, and I can’t fault the logic. But I can’t see Peanut havin’ that.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 19, 2010 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
Tillman
has said several times, he’s not going to be up for moving to Safety.
"Hey, the offensive linemen are the biggest guys on the field, they're bigger than everybody else, and that's what make them the biggest guys on the field." -Madden
by BearNecessities on Feb 19, 2010 4:04 AM CST up reply actions
Two dodgy shoulders ...
And you want Tillman playing Safety ? He wouldn’t last a game ….
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 22, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions
Explain how that makes sense.
by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Feb 22, 2010 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
it doesn't.....
considering that Peanut doesn’t shy away from tackling from the corner spot, and has consistently led the secondary in tackles for years, I fail to see how it makes any sense at all.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
Dont worry he wont, he never debates anyone, he just says whatever hits his simple mind and then moves on.
"How sad, another victim of the Night Nurses from Jersey."
Forte will be our starting RB for several years
without a replacement i do not see any good reason for trading Forte. If we did that Kevin Jones would be our starting RB and that would be pathetic. Draft Gerhart in the 3rd and maybe Forte is trade bait in a year or 2. We need a backup RB anyway and I’d prefer Gerhart to even chester the molester taylor.
+1......
But it ain’t going to happen. Chicago drafts a DE of Safety in the third. And i can’t fault them for it. But I wouldn’t complain if they drafted Gerhart (though I think he’s gone before our third round pick)
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 20, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
I could see that same scenario with this organization.
I wouldn’t be happy if they drafted a DE in the third, not at all. I agree with No It All, I would love to see them trade up and get Chancellor in the second and Gerhart in the third somehow. I don’t see that happening with JA, we will probably end up picking up a DE and I will be pissed.
Walter Payton lives on!!!
by monsterman34 on Feb 22, 2010 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
Great idea...
Maybe we should trade the franchise running back for a washed up corner that has more children than old mother hubbard, and bench Bowman who had more INTS this year than all but 4 cornerbacks in the league ? Hmmmmm….. yeah.
by Irish Bears Fan on Feb 22, 2010 1:08 AM CST reply actions
Our "franchise" RB?
Franchise RBs are guys who ranked dead last in running in all of their NFL seasons? Forte is more of a complimentary back. Not a “Franchise”.
And is Tillman washed up? He’s older than Crom, and lower ranked. Just wondering, cause I kinda like Peanut, and I wasn’t ready to trade his football card yet.
And I like Bowman, too. But he is better suited for Nickel at this point, though I have little doubt that he could develop into a real starting corner. And yes, Bowman had a handful of INTs this year. But being able to cover would be nice, too.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 22, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
Hmmm,
maybe Forte is not as good as IBF thinks, but it is also true Forte is not as bad as you think
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 22, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think....
Forte is bad. I just think he’s a below average runner. As I keep repeating, He’s probably (definitely in my opinion) the best receiving RB in the game, as well as in the top ten in blocking.
If your facts aren’t straight, your point can’t be either.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints - T-Train.
Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein.
by Timothy Hockemeyer on Feb 23, 2010 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
posting error, my post below was meant to be a response to T-Train's post above
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 23, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
repeating something does not make it better
also, facts have to be interpreted, and you fail to realize that your interpretation is not the only way to interpret the facts.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Feb 23, 2010 11:25 AM CST reply actions
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