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Under the Radar: D.J. Moore

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Star-divide

Since the release of Ricky Manning Jr, the nickel back position just like the safety position has been a revolving door. When Ricky Manning was in that nickel back position, he possessed the ball hawking instincts that made that position a strength of that defense back in 2006. Of all the players competing for that spot, D.J. Moore has the best attributes to resemble the 06 Ricky Manning Jr. Back at Vanderbilt, Moore showed those ball hawking instincts that been lacking at the nickel back position for years now. His sophomore season, he finish the season tied for most interceptions in the SEC with 6, and followed that up with another 6 interception season his junior year.

 

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via www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com

 

There's no doubt that the concern with Moore is his height at 5'9", but how much of a concern is that when you have a 40 inch vertical? Moore ball instincts makes up for his size, but the guy should never be asked to play outside his limitations, which means don't put him on the outside one on one with a receiver. This what happen to Ricky Manning Jr when Vasher went down, and he had to play on the outside. Manning just like Moore lacked size (was also 5'9") and recovery speed to play on the outside, and when opposing QB's spotted that they exposed him. Manning Jr and Moore are ideally similar in skill set and size, and this is what Lovie probably saw on tape and in practice when he decided to lump Moore in the competition with Cory Graham and Tim Jennings for the nickel back job.

 

Right now Graham is believe to be the favorite to win the job as he has been performing quite well in the Mini Camp and OTA practices, but do not sleep on Moore as his skill set best suits the nickel back position.

This FanPost was written by a Windy City Gridiron member, and does not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of its staff or community.

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Comments

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DJ Moore is not going to get much playing time...

he’s just not that good at CB. If he had some years to develop, he could be a 4th or 5th CB, but beyond his height he’s just not able to cover or tackle consistently. Those are pretty serious problems for a CB in the NFL. He will always be on the margins of this team’s roster and, even if Tillman goes out with injury, he’s behind Graham, Manning, the new Moore, Jennings, and Turenne. His biggest problem is this team already has Manning and Hester, 2 guys who are elite KR/PR guys in addition to their primary position. On another team, he could be a 4th-5th CB and a ST guy, just not the Bears.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 15, 2010 6:47 AM CDT reply actions  

How in the world can you write off DJ Moore already at CB

when we haven’t seen him yet? What are you basing all of your opinions on?

by Dane Noble on Jun 15, 2010 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

rainbows and lollipops.

If I did what I love for a living, what would I do in my free time?

Writer at windycitygridiron.com {-/-} http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Jun 15, 2010 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

at this point how can any of us know… his scouting report out of college painted a picture of a player that if he were taller would be an ideal cover 2 corner.

"When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." ~ Dick Butkus

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jun 15, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

"When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." ~ Dick Butkus

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jun 15, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh no!

That guy was just itching to go on that ride.

by DaHamsta on Jun 15, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

How do you think he got

under the radar?

If you can't laugh at yourself you must not be very funny.
I remain a pessimistically hopeful Bears fan.

by Just Dave on Jun 17, 2010 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

You must be at leat this tall to ride be on the radar

by DaHamsta on Jun 17, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup

That’s what she said

What were they thinking?

by touchdown bears on Jun 20, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

His personal vendetta against Vandy players

"Is there any truth to the rumor that the Bears gave up their first-round pick in 2011 for the decals?" - Someone registered as the DailyNorseman at PFT suggesting the Bears gave up picks in order to get Gaines Adams tribute decals. Stay classy Minnesota fans!

by propheteer on Jun 15, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

You've found out my secret...

I’m going to destroy Vanderbuilt, 1 football player at a time. You know this how? Grow up and “stay classy”!

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 16, 2010 6:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've looked at...

every piece of film/video I could get my hands on. I’ve watched his play in college and during last preseason. He’s an athletic kid who can really play above his height. But his current cover skills, from what little I’ve seen, do not appear to be adequate enough to get him playing time. In every blow out loss and injury along the secondary and constant lapse in quality DB play, he got 0 playing time last season. He needs to develop, plain and simple and this coaching staff does not appear to be interested in him as a CB. He does have some athletic talent and if ANYONE actually READ what I wrote, I did say he could be a 4th CB on a team that could utilize his return skills. His problem is the Bears have other guys ahead of him on the depth chart who do get playing time.
I would love any of you doubters of my assessment show me how he’s going to beat out Graham, Manning , and Jennings and likely Turenne and possibly J Moore. You question my assessment, but I laid out a case where a player is obviously not a starter and his skills are no more (and mostly less) proven than 2 starters and 3-5 back-ups and wonder how I can say he’s not going to get much playing time. I’m sorry the Kool-aid is a bit watered down, but if you want to question my opinions do so. Why do you all believe he’s so great? Is your belief in his potential any less dubious than what I’ve already said.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 16, 2010 6:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Clearly you do not think much of Moore

you claim you have watched a bunch of film. Maybe you have, maybe you have not, and even if you have, no one here really knows your qualifications, so why should anyone just take your word that Moore is “just not that good”? Speaking for myself, I would like to see him get his chance this year and see what he can do in the NFL. If he loses his battle to make the team, so be it, but I am not prepared to take your word that he is not up to it.

As for Moore getting zero playing time last season, maybe it is a Vandy player thing? Bennett got zero playing time his rookie year, so by your “logic”, expecting anything from him last season was a waste of time. How did that work out?

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 16, 2010 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

No one should just take my word...

they should state a case for why they believe DJ Moore is going to move up the CB depth chart. Just telling me I’m an idiot doesn’t make a strong case for that now does it? As I said earlier, I have yet to hear much more than taunts to me and cracks about my “qualifications” to post comments on this site. If you have a case make it. Nique took the time to post his thoughts and I responded to them by posting a comment. I have said nothing that is patently false; I didn’t claim DJ Moore was an alien from Mars, I just said he’s not an immediate starter out of college and he’s likely to be 4-6th on a depth chart for the Bears. I am not an expert, but then again, most comments on this site are OPINIONS anyway. Commenting on this site is open to anyone who has an opinion. I do not think DJ is going to be a starting CB for the Bears in 2010. Why is that such a blasphemy? What is so egregiously wrong with the rationale I have laid out. You’re no expert either!

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 16, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think he's going to be a starter either.

More than likely, he’s pretty low on the depth chart and has to really establish himself during camp to see any sort of playing time. With the guys ahead of Moore, it seems like quite the up-hill battle for him. I imagine that his size is a huge problem for a coaching staff that realizes how piss poor we have been in pass protection for a few seasons now. Placing a guy in the starting rotation who will be at a size disadvantage 99% of the time and has no real game experience seems like a red flag. Maybe he can play nickel and be successful, he has been there during OTA’s and minicamp, but regardless of position he’ll really have to impress during camp. He might be unemployed by the time the 53 man roster comes out.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 16, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why do you hate him so much...

what did he ever do to you!?! ;>P

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 16, 2010 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Get a grip!

There is nothing “egregiously wrong” with your opinion, no one said there was, so stop whining because I and others think differently. Now you have to be honest and admit that you really do not know how he would perform if given a chance. He’s not had his chance yet, so I will reserve judgement until he does.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 16, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

My "grip" is just fine thanks...

How am I supposed to take these comments?:

His personal vendetta against Vandy players
How in the world can you write off DJ Moore already at CB
Clearly you do not think much of Moore you claim you have watched a bunch of film. Maybe you have, maybe you have not,…so why should anyone just take your word that Moore is "just not that good"?

These aren’t rational arguments about why DJ Moore is going to fly up the depth charts, they are cracks on me. Honestly, I don’t give a crap if you disagree with me, but at least try to present a reason you disagree with me. I am trying NOT to make this personal, but you belabor the point by telling me I should “get a grip”. Jacob, PSDB, and MakeHalasProud have presented actual arguments, you just throw taunts at me; and I don’t care. I am not certain why you feel the need to take out your frustrations on me, but if you feel better about yourself, then go ahead.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 16, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Get a grip II

You presented your opinion, nothing factual or rational about it, just an opinion. Others, me included, have a different opinion, which has caused you to get emotionally irregular.

As for the comments:
1. I took at it as humor, but since you appear to be humor-impaired, you missed it.
2. You clearly have indicated you think there is little if any chance Moore plays, so why should this one get your little knickers in a twist?
3. Clearly you do not think much of him, and since I do not know you or your credentials, I will withhold my opinion until I see him actually play in NFL games. That is my “reason” for not getting on your Moore is not a NFL CB wagon.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 16, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

My fragile emotional state is OK...

My knickers remain untwisted. Your differing opinion doesn’t bother me at all. I do take issue when you make snide personal comments and question my “credentials” (as if I have to be accredited by the NFL to have an opinion). You questioned how I could reach the theory I had, so I responded by further detailing my point of view to clarify. That prompted you to tell me to “get a grip”. Again you have no opinion, but you are certain I am wrong for trying to have one. So you have no trouble making judgments about me, a person you don’t know at all, but you’re going to hold back on DJ Moore.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 16, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

get a grip III

your increasingly emotional posts speak volumes

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 17, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your concern for my emotional state...

probably says a lot more. How exactly do you know my emotions on your computer screen anyway? It’s not like those women on the web cams. You are paying them to like you, you do realize that.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 19, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

get a grip IV

hmmm, how bout how you dragged your issues with me into another thread for example?

As far as the web cam women, I’ll take your word for it, since clearly you know much more about them than I do.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 20, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I knew you wouldn't let it go...

proves that you are just as flawed as the rest of us!

IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO FIRE LOVIE!

by LostInSTL on Jun 20, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

"he’s just not able to cover or tackle consistently"

and you know this how?

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 15, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hate to jump on the pile, and to do so late...

But you’re seriously putting the cart before the horse, as someone who was blessed/cursed to live in Hermitage, TN and still spends quite a bit of time in the Nashville area I can tell you that you that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

I’ve listened to the games, I’ve seen the plays, and I know his limitations. His height is an issue against 6ft 5in receivers and up, but that’s something that is both somewhat rare in the NFL, and can easily be played around. It’s also not insurmountable, specially with the change in coverage rules that allow you to drive a player out of bounds to force an incomplete, since it mostly just hurts him on sideline and end zone corner throws.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 15, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, maybe the height isn't as big an issue as some people might think

But doesn’t DJ Moore also lack top end speed? I know he’s got the ball skills and he can jump, but does he have the speed to cover somebody like Percy Harvin?

by JimmyMack on Jun 18, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Last I checked...

He runs around a 4.5, which isn’t elite, but isn’t terrible. His quickness and agility are better than his straight line speed, including being extremely good in zone coverage.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 18, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ricky Manning Jr was nothing to write home about physically.Yet he still made 5 INT in 06………Dj Moore, can make a big impact if the opportunity presents itself..Atleast that’s what I hope

by I love football! on Jun 19, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I think DJ Moore will be fighting for a roster spot, this year.

by JimmyMack on Jun 18, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clever Title

Under the Radar

Is D.J. Moore, the Garrett Wolfe of the Defense?

by rdent4hof on Jun 15, 2010 9:28 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Nice +1

He should totally have that moniker as of right now.

"Is there any truth to the rumor that the Bears gave up their first-round pick in 2011 for the decals?" - Someone registered as the DailyNorseman at PFT suggesting the Bears gave up picks in order to get Gaines Adams tribute decals. Stay classy Minnesota fans!

by propheteer on Jun 15, 2010 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ball skills, agility

Who cares if he is 5’ 9"? The difference between 5’ 9" and 6’ 0" is way overblown. Agility, ball skills, instincts, and leaping ability are all way more important than a couple inches of height.
In fact, it’s usually the shorter CBs who have the best agility/cover skills (you wouldn’t lift your sports car, would you?).

DJ Moore and J. Moore sound like the most agile CBs on our team. I look forward to seeing both of them in action.

While I like Graham, for some reason I think of him more as a #3 or #4 CB, than as a Nickleback. I guess I like the more agile guys in the Nickleback role.

by MakeHalasProud on Jun 15, 2010 11:01 AM CDT reply actions  

I like DJ at nickel

 But only if we can dish daniel manning to washington for Albert Haynesworth. Across the board trade.

by WavyGravy on Jun 16, 2010 6:02 PM CDT reply actions  

if only Washington was that stupid

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 17, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

Kreutz would be smacking Haynesworth upside the head within a month if he came to the Bears.

by oripunk3485 on Jun 17, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where does this "locker room cancer" mindset come from?

He’s known for being a dominating player, who stands up for his teammates on the field and plays extremely hard on game day.

The only reason I’ve found is because he’s sitting out of camp because he doesn’t want to play NT, and would rather not play in a 3-4 at all. That’s not being a locker room cancer. :P

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 18, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

The highest paid defensive player of all time

doesn’t want to play for a 3-4 defense because he’s unhappy, so he’s going to attempt to demand a trade. Give me a f**king break, he hasn’t even played a full season for the Redskins. He was “known for being a dominating player” during his time with the Titans which allowed him to receive that kind of massive deal and what did he do last season? He had 4 sacks and 37 tackles in 12 games and got injured, sounds to me like he owes the Redskins more than that for making him the $100 million dollar man. He also had no problem accepting a $21 million dollar bonus a few months ago and hasn’t participated in any off-season activities but now is holding out and demanding a trade. Sounds like a class act..

His claim is that the Redskins organization lied to him about the direction that the defense was heading prior to him signing a contract. Do you think that prior to the 2009 season that the Redskins foresaw their terrible season and all of the coaching changes that would be happening in 2010? I don’t think they have second sight, if they did they’d have more championships. In the meantime, he has stayed away from all OTA’s and minicamp, hasn’t learned any of the 3-4, and basically shat on all his teammates all while feeling he’s bigger than all of this because, after all, he’s Albert Haynesworth. Maybe he thinks all of that money actually makes him a big deal, unfortunately the media talks more about his drama than his play.

Haynesworth’s work ethic has been in question frequently before so I don’t agree with you that he “plays extremely hard on game day.” Hell, he’s not interested in learning a new defensive system even when 3-4 based defenses are very successful in the NFL right now. The guy is a good player, if he wasn’t he wouldn’t have received that deal, but he’s proving to be a terrible teammate and team player in a team sport. The Redskins’ entire defensive is learning the 3-4 so Albert can suck it up and play football, it’s what he’s paid to do. Ex-teammates and other Redskins are releasing statements on his behavior during their time with him. “Selfish” is a word that gets thrown around a lot. We don’t have room for that on the Bears.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 18, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I saw a Tweet a couple of days ago

that summed it up pretty well (I can’t recall who said it):

“Haynesworth signed a contract with the Redskins, not with the 4-3 defense.”

Junior Seau was talking last night about how Haynesworth had the skill set to play NT in the NFL, but that he wanted to play the 3-technique or a pure pass rushing DT to be able to get the QB sacks (and all the glory). Moving inside in a 3-4 scheme would take him out of the spotlight.

by Dane Noble on Jun 18, 2010 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

That quote does sum it up pretty perfectly.

I think of it as if it was happening to us. What would everyone think if we happened to have a poor season and fired Lovie and Co., then decided to switch to the 3-4 and Peppers decides to do exactly what Haynesworth is doing? We’d all be calling for the guy’s head on a platter.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 18, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe you would...

I would not. You’re not talking about a franchise with half the scruples that the Bears have, but suffice to say you’d see much more deference to the player. For instance, Cutler was consulted quite a bit before Martz was brought in about the scheme he wanted to bring and other such fun stuff.

That didn’t happen here, and Fat Al is about the closest to marquee QB that you get on the defensive side of the ball. They made the changes without saying anything or consulting him since it was more important that they got the coach they wanted than keep their players happy.

The game isn’t all about money, it is also about respect. They’ve shown Haynesworth zero, so I have no qualms about him showing them little as well.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 18, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude..

To compare Cutler, our franchise QB, getting consulted before his OC is hired is completely different than Haynesworth being consulted on who his new HC will be. Albert is a 3-technique tackle and you’re going to compare what he does to being a marquee QB for the defense? That’s laughable. I guess you think Tommie is the QB of our defense, right?

Albert got paid like a big time QB but his role isn’t even near the complexity of Cutler’s. Cutler controls the entire offense, Albert plays tackle. Somehow you believe the Redskins are at fault for not discussing their plans with their new DT but since when is it a franchise’s responsibility to make all of their players happy when they are trying to implement a new strategy to make them more successful anyway? Besides, the only player who has thrown a hissy-fit on the Redskins about the change is Albert!

You probably think he deserves to keep that $21 million too.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 19, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're placing way too much emphasis on the wrong parts...

of who Cutler is. Cutler wasn’t consulted because just because he was a QB, he was consulted because he was biggest name and highest paid marquee player on the offense. This is the same reason Olsen wasn’t really consulted in the slightest, and nor was Forte. They are names, but their pay and fame are massively blown away by Cutler.

If you think Briggs and Urlacher wouldn’t be consulted in some way, shape, or form about a move to a 3-4 defense you’re out of your mind. It has nothing to do with the positions they play, and everything to do with the impact they have, the fame they have, and the money they were paid.

A 100 million dollar defensive tackle that is consistant voted as one of the most dominate defensive players in the league is about as close as you can get to the fame/money level of a franchise QB.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 19, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are confused.

If we had an offensive player that made more money than Cutler, do you think they would be consulting him over Jay? Of course not. Jay runs the freaking offense! No player on the offense matters more to buying into the system like the quarterback and for obvious reasons. Only consulting the highest paid player would be stupid.

Urlacher would definitely be consulted based on a 3-4 change because he is our franchise player on the defense and has been for over a decade. That matters a lot. He and Briggs didn’t just arrive last season and only play 12 games. Urlacher is basically the QB of the defense so his input would be greatly valued but if he wasn’t okay with the change the Bears would trade or release him. No HC is going to completely change the make-up of their team because of one player.

The point you are making with this “fame/money of a franchise QB” argument doesn’t for some reason make him part of management. He’s paid to play not make executive decisions.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 19, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think if they had a TE that they were paying more money...

than Jay Cutler that they would have brought in Mike Martz to be the OC?

It’s extremely doubtful. Money/Fame/Face of franchise arguments are all the same basic argument.

Most organizations would have consulted a player of the caliber of Haynesworth to make sure he would be okay with a complete position/scheme change before bringing a new coach in.

The Redskins didn’t, and they are now paying for it. They got the coach they wanted though, so they should be fairly happy. If they had done things in an intelligent way instead of just throwing money and everything under the sun they wouldn’t be in this problem now. If they had any kind of loyalty, they also wouldn’t be in this situation.

His contract doesn’t make him part of management, but as most people will tell you coaching means a lot, but it’s the players that play the game. Alienating your best player on defense by lying to him, and then failing to do anything positive with it, that falls on the Redskins and not on Haynesworth.

People called TO a cancer because he was bad mouthing his QB at multiple stops among other things, as well as taking over the locker room with rampant BS. However, people didn’t even call Brandon Marshall a cancer and the guy was throwing a hissy fit in the middle of practice, so calling Haynesworth a cancer just because he doesn’t want to play NT and made it known before he signed his contract that he didn’t want to play NT is completely overboard.

He is no more a cancer than Chris Johnson, Revis, or any other player that had held out of camp.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 20, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

People ALWAYS talked

about the kind of baggage that B. Marshall would be bringing with him! Do you watch ESPN? Haynesworth is a “locker room cancer” for the fact that he has a “me” attitude and has made it apparent by his actions past and present. A lot of his former and current teammates are saying the same thing about him but I guess since a person like you who has never met Albert, never played with him and never had to co-exist with his ego on the same playing field or locker room that you would have a better character gauge for him over people who have. I’m going off of players’ comments of why I wouldn’t want a guy with character like that on the Bears. A “me” attitude would be “cancerous” to our locker room.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 20, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Baggage, sure...

Locker Room Cancer, No. Even with his issues with the law, including multiple assault charges and throwing a hissy fit on the field and he wasn’t called a locker room cancer by even a slim majority of sports writers or players.

I can think of only one player to ever garner that kind of verbage and that was TO, which is my entire point. You’re completely slamming a player to the biggest extreme you possibly can, apparently just because this is the internet and massive amounts of hyperbole are common place.

I just take issue with the fact that none of his teammates, current or former, have come out and called Haynesworth a cancer that I’ve seen. None of them. Since none of the players have called him a cancer that I’ve seen, then I wonder why you are? In fact, if he was the locker room cancer you’re trying to say he is then why in the world would they be calling him and asking him to come back?

I haven’t played with him, but I’ve actually lived in the city he played the majority of his career and heard the beat reports and have heard nothing but praise from his actual teammates, and plenty of his fans.

Show me some actual quotes from players that said he’s a bad teammate in the locker room, not some ESPN writer who thinks because Haynesworth was paid some money he’s essentially an indentured servant of his team, along with a cry baby story about players that were hamstrung by the CBA expiration.

It’d be one thing of Haynesworth was showing up to camp, and spouting off at the coaches and refusing to line up at NT, and generally wrecking havoc at camp. However, he’s staying away from camp, he’s even staying away from most of the media. He’s not hitting up twitter talking about the situation, he’s told the team about the issue and for the most part it was team leaks, and team comments, that have made the majority of the story.

That’s not cancerous, that’s simply being unhappy with the situation and doing something about it.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 20, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are obsessing over the word "cancer"

a bit too much. Go read the article that I placed so conveniently in your lap to read and get the player quotes you are searching for. If you had bothered to look for any of this you couldn’t possibly miss it so that’s laziness on your part; I’ve actually read an article that supports your side of the argument (the only one I could find by the way) to attempt to see it from your POV.

I personally labeled him a “locker room cancer” meaning that his selfishness and “me” attitude would be “cancerous” for the locker room. Why does some other player have to say “locker room cancer” for me to say it? I never said that former and current players literally called him that and you know it but what they did say was nothing short of it.

If you would like to hear Kevin Mawae give you his impression then listen here. If you would like to see what some of the Redskins are saying then read the article I gave you before.

Everything that you are adding to our discussion doesn’t seem to be pushing your opinion into a place where I completely agree with you. If that’s your intention then I thought I’d let you know that nothings going to do that. I did read the article that shows some of your POV and I can’t disagree with everything but I still have my feelings towards the situation. I hope that your not feeling obligated to keep this up because your a writer here.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 20, 2010 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's the thing though...

I’ve read the quotes, specially the ones from the Redskins. All the Redskins quotes are all stuff like “We really wish he was here in camp” nothing like “He’s belittled the coach since he stepped into the building.” or “I hate the way he told us all we didn’t matter”

There isn’t anything like that. I’m “obsessing” over the words “locker room cancer” because words actually mean something, and calling Haynesworth a locker room cancer would basically mean that literally any player in the league could be considered a locker room cancer.

If you want to say he isn’t a high character guy, I’ll agree with that whole-heartedly. If you want to say that he isn’t a self-less team first player, I can’t agree with that, but I could see where you would think that. When you basically call him nothing but a disruptive force that cares nothing about his teammates and actively seeks to cause problems for both his team and his teammates, then I’m going to take issue with it like I have here.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 20, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've read it...

And you’ve got the same tired stuff about how there are all of these players that didn’t get paid big contracts, which have nothing to do with Haynesworth. Nothing. Other players contracts have zilch to do with anything he was promised.

You’ve got Keith Bullock who thinks he is handling it the wrong way, but at the same time says everyone knew that Haynesworth is who he is, and knew what they were getting. A 4-3 DT. Haynesworth made that abundantly clear during FA that he wanted to play DT in a 4-3, and that was one of his two primary concerns, along side the money. He’s also not the “team leader”. He’s the nasty mauler who will protect his team on the field, and play his hardest. Everyone isn’t Mike Brown :P

My personal favorite is Ray Lewis saying he doesn’t care what LB position he plays. That’s great for Ray Lewis, and great for his team, however Haynesworth never said he didn’t care where he played on the line.

Again, I’m not saying Haynesworth is the poster child of a selfless team player, but he sure isn’t anything close to TO or Brandon Marshall like you’re trying to make him out to be.

Did I miss Haynesworth eating Big Macs on a workout bench in his driveway?

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 26, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

All the Redskins quotes are all stuff like "We really wish he was here in camp" nothing like "He’s belittled the coach since he stepped into the building." or "I hate the way he told us all we didn’t matter"

Would you say that about someone who’s not yet been traded/cut from the team, though? Would be detrimental to team chemistry to say negative things about someone you’ll playing alongside.

"44 years of football history and nothing to show for it. I wish I wasn’t banned at the Norseman.." - tfrabotta
"Fellas, what are they, unblockable? Is that the '85 Bears over there?" - overheard at Giants' '06 training camp
~~~ Check my profile for links for SB20 and America's Game: '85 Bears ~~~

by Spongie on Jun 23, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's part of my point...

If he was such a “cancer” then it wouldn’t matter. They’d want him gone, they’d be talking about how they should just cut him or whatever.

I’m not saying he’s in line for man of the year, I’m saying attempting to lump him in with players like Brandon Marshall and Terrell Owens is insanity.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 26, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Unless his contract says they're only playing a 4-3 in Washington

1) He needs to either shut up and get his butt into camp.

Or

2) Return the $21 million they just paid him to play football, and allow them to attempt to trade him.

Should be pretty simple, either way.

by JimmyMack on Jun 18, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

If they want any bonus repaid to them...

They can go into arbitration, just like everyone else. Nothing is stopping them from trading him, except their desire to trade him and what they think the market can offer.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 18, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I honestly don't know if it's possible for you...

To fit more conjecture and double talk in a single post.

Playing extremely hard on game day has nothing to do with his desire to learn a new defensive scheme in the off-season. Nothing. They are two completely different things.

His not showing up to camp has nothing to do with his value as a teammate. In fact, I’d say Haynesworth is better than most as despite how unhappy he is he hasn’t thrown on a dog and pony show, in fact, Haynesworth has sought out less media than Revis or Johnson yet you’re not calling them locker room cancers.

As far as the discussion of his play last year, you seem to be glazing over the career numbers that the rest of the line had while Haynesworth was on the field. Haynesworth isn’t just a good DT, he makes everyone else on the line better. You also seem to be excusing the absolute sea change on defense.

The change of defensive scheme has very little to do with the effectiveness of the scheme, and everything to do with the coach they brought in wanting to do it his way. That’s fine and all, but Haynesworth was sold a false bill of goods, and then you want him to eat what’s served to him.

You can talk about loyalty to the organization and all that fun stuff all you want to, but when you’re talking about a league that can cut you at any time asking a player to play out their contract because that’s what they get paid for is silly. I have more respect for a player that is holding out for football reasons than one that is holding out for more money.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 18, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man, I hate having to break down others' posts.
Playing extremely hard on game day has nothing to do with his desire to learn a new defensive scheme in the off-season.

I’m not making a connection between the two so why you have, I have no idea. I said I doubt that he plays “extremely hard” on game day and made a comment about him refusing to learn a new defensive system even though it could be very successful for his team..but you’d have to care about the team to do something like that.

His not showing up to camp has nothing to do with his value as a teammate…..Haynesworth has sought out less media than Revis or Johnson yet you’re not calling them locker room cancers.

I don’t have to be the one to call him a “cancer,” go listen to his current and former teammates give you their impressions. As for Revis and Johnson, both players are holding out for contract extensions that they are due. Haynesworth is bailing on his team after completing 1 year of a 7 year, $100 million dollar contract. No matter how you slice it, he’s refusing to learn the 3-4 that the Redskins are learning even though he signed a contract to play for the Redskins. I highly doubt there was a clause that claimed “we will never switch from a 4-3 if you play for us.” Somehow some event made him forget that NFL franchises have the ability to change the way their teams play football.

As far as the discussion of his play last year, you seem to be glazing over the career numbers that the rest of the line had while Haynesworth was on the field. Haynesworth isn’t just a good DT, he makes everyone else on the line better. You also seem to be excusing the absolute sea change on defense.

I’m not glazing over his career. I said he’s a good player and there was a reason why he received such a massive contract. I’d say that’s not glazing over anything he’s accomplished. He is a great player and don’t you think his teammates know it? Don’t you think they are looking forward to success from a dominant player on their line? Looking for veteran leadership in a time of change? But yeah, it’s ok that he’s doing what he’s doing because the Redskins lied to him. Please. Obviously the Redskins have confidence that he can be one hell of a NT in a 3-4 defense, too bad the position isn’t “sexy” enough for him and now he has to leave. Boo hoo.

Also, I don’t understand how I can be “excusing the absolute sea change on defense” when I’ve been discussing it so much. Are you thinking before you make accusations?

The change of defensive scheme has very little to do with the effectiveness of the scheme, and everything to do with the coach they brought in wanting to do it his way. That’s fine and all, but Haynesworth was sold a false bill of goods, and then you want him to eat what’s served to him.

Yes, you are correct about the scheme, the players and coaches are the ones who have to make it successful. That’s something the team must accomplish on their own personal commitment and hard work. It would be a lot easier to see results with such a disruptive force like Haynesworth buying into the system like the rest of the defense. “Haynesworth was sold a false bill of goods” huh? Explain that one to me again..

You can talk about loyalty to the organization and all that fun stuff all you want to, but when you’re talking about a league that can cut you at any time asking a player to play out their contract because that’s what they get paid for is silly.

Do you think I’m asking Haynesworth to play out his entire 7-year contract? He’s not going to play that contract, I’m not stupid. The whole point is he’s played 3/4 of one season out of those seven total seasons. The team obviously thought highly enough about him to make him the richest defensive player, I guess he doesn’t feel like he owes them anything after only one season. You’d think you could depend on a guy to be around the next season after he gets paid like that.

I have more respect for a player that is holding out for football reasons than one that is holding out for more money.

So you have more respect for Haynesworth who is attempting to bail on a team he just signed the largest defensive contract with last season because he doesn’t want to learn the 3-4 and in the process is hurting the success of the franchise in 2010, the players, the coaches and the fans instead of two players who are the best at their respective positions trying to get paid like they deserve? Your morals are a bit backwards, Skiz.

Are you seeing a trend here like maybe his actions speak that he feels his displeasure is worth more than the success of the team? That’s the mentality that I don’t care for and wouldn’t want on the Bears. When T.O. was in S.F., Philly and Dallas nobody would deny what he could do on the field but what they could deny with is his “me” attitude and his antics that made him a liability to the locker room. Haynesworth isn’t far off.

Conjecture and double talk huh? I guess that’s what you call distributing facts. Come on Mr. Associate Writer, do you’re homework a little more. Read about Revis and Johnson and then tell me that their situations are the same.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 19, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

They aren't the same...

That’s my point. I’m saying that if you’re going to call Haynesworth a locker room cancer for not wanting to play in a 3-4 defense, after having chosen to sign with the Redskins based on their playing a 4-3 defense, then you’ve got o call Chris Johnson and Revis cancers for not wanting to honor their contracts either.

The difference between the two is that Haynesworth was told he was going to play in a 4-3 defense. Neither of these other high profile holdouts were told anything about getting a new contract.

For a player to have loyaltty to a team, the team must first have loyalty to the player. They’ve shown none, so I have absolutely no ill will for Haynesworth showing none in return.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 19, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please read the article.

You make my brain hurt. You just said their not the same and that’s your point but then at the end of that same sentence you say that I would need to call Johnson and Revis “cancers.” The only way I would be obligated to do that is if the situations were the same and their not.

A team shows loyalty in a player when they decide to make him the highest paid defensive player of all time. He was a starter last season and would be a starter this season, that’s loyalty too. What else do you want them to do? Maybe they should make a golden statue of him and dance around it while chanting his name to show their loyalty.

by PolishSausage.Ditka.Bears. on Jun 19, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, because giving someone money shows all kind of loyalty...

So much so that it counteracts the Redskins blatantly lying to the player.

You can say they didn’t know they were going to change schemes when they signed him, but they did know when they hired their new coach he was going to change the scheme. They didn’t meet with Haynesworth, they didn’t gauge his interest in playing in a 3-4 ahead of time and then try to deal him when he reiterated his lack of interest in playing NT.

You’re calling Haynesworth a cancer because he doesn’t want to play NT, yet you think Revis and Johnson aren’t cancers even though they are being extremely public with their issues and saying they don’t want to play at all unless they are making more than 2 million a year.

Again, I have more respect for someone that is holding out for football reasons than monetary reasons, but I have no problems with anyone holding out for any reason. Just the act of holding out doesn’t make someone a cancer, it’s how they do it that causes the problem or not.

I wish some of our players that have been shifted around a hundred times would have done the same thing to be perfectly honest.

As far as the article goes, it’s all conjecture on how other people might feel in the league and it’s all based around money.

Money isn’t everything, and it’s not like Haynesworth is holding out for more big stat seasons, to get a bigger contract. He’s 29 with a long term deal, that deal would be his last big deal almost assuredly.

They knew he didn’t want to play in a 3-4 when they signed him, it was specifically out there that he was only interested in teams playing a 4-3, and that’s why some people thought the Redskins over-paid since there are very few teams that play completely 4-3 defense anymore. Less buyers in the market should have meant a lower price, but the Redskins did the usual Redskin move and broke the piggy bank. Then they did the second normally Redskin thing and basically said forget what we told you when we signed you, we tell you what to do.

He has the choice to not play if he doesn’t want to, and if they want to come try to get some of his bonus back they can do that too. None of that makes him a cancer, despite what you think.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 20, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

If Haynesworth had a history

Of consistently playing hard and earning the respect of his teammates, then I would be a lot more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this situation. But his production last year was very marginal, and he’s already been paid $32 million.

Now, none of his teammates past or present (with the possible exception of DeAngelo Hall) seem to have anything positive to say about him and his decision to no-show to camp. The pattern with Haynesworth just seems to be “show up and do the bare minimum.” Or, if he can come up with an excuse not to show up, just skip camp alltogether…

by JimmyMack on Jun 19, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate repeating myself...

But you can’t just look at his stats, you have to look at other players on the lines stats while he’s playing. The defensive line is much like the offensive line in that regard, it’s a team within a team.

Associate Writer - WindyCityGridiron.com - Artist formerly known as Sklz711

by Jacob Hayes on Jun 19, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

...

I prefer Woodney Turrene over DJ Moore.

I think Turrene is the next Peanut

by suckmyditka on Jun 17, 2010 12:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Turrene did nothing last preseason

except let everyone catch the ball in front of him then make a good tackle

"When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately - unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something." ~ Dick Butkus

by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Jun 18, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, there you go, he's a good tackler

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where's your proof?

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Jun 18, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I liked this kid !!

Why did you have to Oakland Raider his poor ass ?

by gothicpurple on Jun 27, 2010 2:46 PM CDT reply actions  

y r u even over here.

we all know the viqueens aint $#!+ w/o #4

by chiguy8506 on Jul 1, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

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